Help me decide what products to buy for my body transformation

[ionlyknowy]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Multivitamin- Orange Triad
Fish Oil-Oximega
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/orange-triad-oximega-fish-oil-combo.html
creatine
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/green.html
Protein
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/egg.html
Jack3d
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/jacked.html
Carbs
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/genr8/vitargo.html


I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

[ionlyknowy]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Creatine (pill form)
Fish oil (pill form)
Multivitamin (pill form)
Protien (pill form)

I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

Oh and when you make a suggestion please dont use accronyms or abbreviations because I will have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks!

[F_T_K]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Creatine (pill form)
Fish oil (pill form)
Multivitamin (pill form)
Protien (pill form)

I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

Jack3d is a powder u mix with water. It's a pre-work out supplement that enhances focus and you will have a much better workout! recommended for 18+ years.(im like a month away from being 18) and i have been taking it at 2 scoops and it's GREAT! never felt better during a workout and it's sure great to help with muscle gains. You also need a solid diet. If you're going to gain some mass(u said ur skinny) u need to eat 500 calories over your maintenance everyday with high in protein and carb foods

i almost forgot i would suggest
Multivitamin- Orange Triad
Fish Oil-Oximega

heres the link to buy em both at a good deal.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cl...oil-combo.html

I am currently taking a generic brand of fish oil and Opti-men for a multi vitamin, but i plan to go to orange triad and the oximega fish oil when i finish what i have now. If money is an issue, get opti-men for a multivitamin

and sorry i dont know much about protein and creatine in pill forms :/

[ionlyknowy]

Jack3d is a powder u mix with water. It's a pre-work out supplement that enhances focus and you will have a much better workout! recommended for 18+ years.(im like a month away from being 18) and i have been taking it at 2 scoops and it's GREAT! never felt better during a workout and it's sure great to help with muscle gains. You also need a solid diet. If you're going to gain some mass(u said ur skinny) u need to eat 500 calories over your maintenance everyday with high in protein and carb foods

i almost forgot i would suggest
Multivitamin- Orange Triad
Fish Oil-Oximega

heres the link to buy em both at a good deal.


I am currently taking a generic brand of fish oil and Opti-men for a multi vitamin, but i plan to go to orange triad and the oximega fish oil when i finish what i have now. If money is an issue, get opti-men for a multivitamin

and sorry i dont know much about protein and creatine in pill forms :/

currently I am a fast food junky. I eat at taco cabana, mc donalds, chik fila, panda (chinese), papa johns, etc. I have never ever counted calories. I also have always remained skinny. People say I have a high metabolism. In the past few years I have started to slowly gain some weight. For a while there I was stuck at 150lbs (eating same), then shot up to 175 over past 1.5 years.

What kind of food would you suggest if my diet currently is no good? And if you know of any resturants that have the food you suggest then thats better because I dont like to cook lol. Money really isnt an issue at this point in my life... I want to get this done and get it done the right way before I am old lol. My wife is starting to lose interest and I need to become sexy man again asap.

[F_T_K]

currently I am a fast food junky. I eat at taco cabana, mc donalds, chik fila, panda (chinese), papa johns, etc. I have never ever counted calories. I also have always remained skinny. People say I have a high metabolism. In the past few years I have started to slowly gain some weight. For a while there I was stuck at 150lbs (eating same), then shot up to 175 over past 1.5 years.

What kind of food would you suggest if my diet currently is no good? And if you know of any resturants that have the food you suggest then thats better because I dont like to cook lol. Money really isnt an issue at this point in my life... I want to get this done and get it done the right way before I am old lol. My wife is starting to lose interest and I need to become sexy man again asap.

well i was around 150 for a while..then counting calories, and focusing on lifting with good amounts of protein..and taking supplements, i got up to 161.8 in a matter of about a month..i was shocked...i was never able to gain weight

But CHICKEN BREAST is AWESOME!!! pretty low calories but extremely high in protein..very very best source food wise. Peanut butter is good, bananas, whole grain pasta, rice. I like to make Peanut Butter Banana Bagels with Honey BEST SNACK EVER!

based on your body..i would say...eat around 3000-3500 calories a day..Try this for about 2-3 weeks ALONG WITH weight lifting. and if no weight gains, up the calorie intake by 500 more.. and try that, and so on.Try to eat CLEAN foods, like the ones i listed as examples..try to stay away from fast food crap for a while, but it's ok to have it sometimes. And TRY to eat little meals plenty of times a day.ALWAYS have something in your stomach so your muscle isn't slowly eaten away Even when you don't feel like your hungry, just try to get down a little something like..a protein bar or something.but be careful cause a lot of them have dairy i think, some types don't.

there are sites you can google for counting calories, you type what food you ate, how much of it(based on weight and measurements, depends on food) and it'll give you an estimate of about how much calories it was.

[F_T_K]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
this is a good page to look at on your own time educate yourself a little on diet.

[ionlyknowy]

this is a good page to look at on your own time educate yourself a little on diet.

wow thank you soooo much for all this information! This is what I need. I think I have never gotten into it because there isnt really one source that gives info for my specific needs (I am the rare case, skinny not fat and weak stomach etc). Here is what I have so far

Multivitamin- Orange Triad
Fish Oil-Oximega
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/orange-triad-oximega-fish-oil-combo.html
creatine
h ttp://ww w.bodybuilding.com/store/six/cee.html
Protein
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/egg.html
Jack3d
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/jacked.html
Carbs
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/genr8/vitargo.html

Links have spaces because my account is new and cant post them.

Does anyone know if taking all of these supplements is safe if doing a prohormone cycle as detailed in my original post?

[F_T_K]

wow thank you soooo much for all this information! This is what I need. I think I have never gotten into it because there isnt really one source that gives info for my specific needs (I am the rare case, skinny not fat and weak stomach etc). Here is what I have so far

Multivitamin- Orange Triad
Fish Oil-Oximega
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/orange-triad-oximega-fish-oil-combo.html
creatine
h ttp://ww w.bodybuilding.com/store/six/cee.html
Protein
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/egg.html
Jack3d
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/jacked.html
Carbs
h ttp://w ww.bodybuilding.com/store/genr8/vitargo.html

Links have spaces because my account is new and cant post them.

Does anyone know if taking all of these supplements is safe if doing a prohormone cycle as detailed in my original post?

see im not sure about that prohormone cycle thing though.sorry :/ i dont know enough about it to give you an answer

[DKFEE]

well i was around 150 for a while..then counting calories, and focusing on lifting with good amounts of protein..and taking supplements, i got up to 161.8 in a matter of about a month..i was shocked...i was never able to gain weight

But CHICKEN BREAST is AWESOME!!! pretty low calories but extremely high in protein..very very best source food wise. Peanut butter is good, bananas, whole grain pasta, rice. I like to make Peanut Butter Banana Bagels with Honey BEST SNACK EVER!

based on your body..i would say...eat around 3000-3500 calories a day..Try this for about 2-3 weeks ALONG WITH weight lifting. and if no weight gains, up the calorie intake by 500 more.. and try that, and so on.Try to eat CLEAN foods, like the ones i listed as examples..try to stay away from fast food crap for a while, but it's ok to have it sometimes. And TRY to eat little meals plenty of times a day.ALWAYS have something in your stomach so your muscle isn't slowly eaten away Even when you don't feel like your hungry, just try to get down a little something like..a protein bar or something.but be careful cause a lot of them have dairy i think, some types don't.

there are sites you can google for counting calories, you type what food you ate, how much of it(based on weight and measurements, depends on food) and it'll give you an estimate of about how much calories it was.

Was percentage of the 11.8 lbs was fat, what percentage was water, and what percentage was muscle?

[F_T_K]

Was percentage of the 11.8 lbs was fat, what percentage was water, and what percentage was muscle?

it was definelty a mix of water and muscle. Im starting to get comments on me looking slightly bigger, but im sure that my muscles retained water as well..i have been eating foods low in fat

[DKFEE]

it was definelty a mix of water and muscle. Im starting to get comments on me looking slightly bigger, but im sure that my muscles retained water as well..i have been eating foods low in fat

That's cool.

Thanks F_T_K.

[2Burnt]

You have no idea about diet which would mean your not ready to take prohormones. There is a lot more to do than just popping a pill and gaining from it. Get your diet and training down first. Adding supplements is fine but jumping into prohormones is a mistake that many have made that actually can lead to all sorts of problems without any benefit. Get the basics down before jumping to the advanced stuff.

[ionlyknowy]

You have no idea about diet which would mean your not ready to take prohormones. There is a lot more to do than just popping a pill and gaining from it. Get your diet and training down first. Adding supplements is fine but jumping into prohormones is a mistake that many have made that actually can lead to all sorts of problems without any benefit. Get the basics down before jumping to the advanced stuff.

Thank you for your response and I respect it very much. I intend to use them but will take what you said into account. Can you provide me with references to sources where I can learn how to "get your diet and training down first"? Instead of telling me how bad my ideas are please help me. This is why I am in the position I am today, I dont know where to go to get this information for my specific needs, I dont know how to calculate things in regards to food, I dont know what is good for "getting it down first" and what is bad. I need information and criticism not just the criticism

I have always valued criticism because it helps me learn my mistakes. BUT when criticism is offered without any information to make me better and correct the target mistakes of the criticism then this is the type of criticism that is useless and that I do not value. If you would like please tell me what I am doing wrong and how to correct it with specific information, enough information that I can correct the mistake. Otherwise I will continue down this road. I try and search for information but most of the time I read it and dont understand it because it is written with all types of abbreviations and acronyms as well as industry language. I am totally new to this kind of thing and need a full explanation of things in order for it to make sense to me.

For instance, when looking up things on prohormones some people talk about PCT. I have deduced from the readings that it is a post supplement type thing that is taken after the cycle. As far as what PCT stands for or what it is or what needs to be taken is beyond me. This type of information problem is the root of my issue with starting out with body transformation.

On other non related forums they have a newbie guide written by one of their forum pro's that explains new topics in detail. If this forum has anything like this pertaining to prohormones, problems of using prohormones and not having diet and training down first, supplements, and body transformation and diet then please feel free to direct me to these. I appreciate you taking the time to do so and know that you will be helping out someone who has suffered his whole life with people grabbing his wrists telling him "omg ur wrists are so small" "you are like an starving Ethiopian" etc. I am 28 now and need to do something about this issue. I suspect I am naturally low on testosterone or some other hormone that affects such things. Any information you provide you can then feel good knowing that you helped someone in need and not merely a self absorbed person worshiping his body. I have been ridiculed my entire life for this and it is time it stops. As I get older because of this problem I stand out more in the settings of my every day life. People tell me I dont look 28 and I get carded for everything I buy. I am about to graduate law school and I know this issue will affect my being able to fit into a law firm. Clients dont want to be represented by a person that looks to be 20 years old. My wife is starting to lose interest and it is hurting our marriage, I know that if I fix my issue then she will notice me again.

The reason why I disclose all of this is to motivate others to help not merely criticize and move on. Please provide what I need to do to get my diet and training down first. Thank you.

[ranthal]

Thank you for your response and I respect it very much. I intend to use them but will take what you said into account. Can you provide me with references to sources where I can learn how to "get your diet and training down first"? Instead of telling me how bad my ideas are please help me. This is why I am in the position I am today, I dont know where to go to get this information for my specific needs, I dont know how to calculate things in regards to food, I dont know what is good for "getting it down first" and what is bad. I need information and criticism not just the criticism

You managed to find the supplement section so I imagine you can find the Workout Programs, Nutrition and Exercises sections. Go there and read the stickies.

And I am not clear, is the workout program you are planning P90X?

[theGuy045]

currently I am a fast food junky. I eat at taco cabana, mc donalds, chik fila, panda (chinese), papa johns, etc. I have never ever counted calories. I also have always remained skinny. People say I have a high metabolism. In the past few years I have started to slowly gain some weight. For a while there I was stuck at 150lbs (eating same), then shot up to 175 over past 1.5 years.

What kind of food would you suggest if my diet currently is no good? And if you know of any resturants that have the food you suggest then thats better because I dont like to cook lol. Money really isnt an issue at this point in my life... I want to get this done and get it done the right way before I am old lol. My wife is starting to lose interest and I need to become sexy man again asap.

Eat meat and potatoes all day long and in 5 years you will start to see something. Make sure you eat intra-workout meat and potatoes as well, for recovery and to keep your body in an anabolic state. When you are ready to take off some of the fat, start running and eat chicken and sweet potatoes all day long instead of meat and potatoes. And drink lots of water while you sleep all day.

Moral of the story: Eat all day long. Sleep a lot. Drink lots of water.

[theGuy045]

Thank you for your response and I respect it very much. I intend to use them but will take what you said into account. Can you provide me with references to sources where I can learn how to "get your diet and training down first"? Instead of telling me how bad my ideas are please help me. This is why I am in the position I am today, I dont know where to go to get this information for my specific needs, I dont know how to calculate things in regards to food, I dont know what is good for "getting it down first" and what is bad. I need information and criticism not just the criticism

I have always valued criticism because it helps me learn my mistakes. BUT when criticism is offered without any information to make me better and correct the target mistakes of the criticism then this is the type of criticism that is useless and that I do not value. If you would like please tell me what I am doing wrong and how to correct it with specific information, enough information that I can correct the mistake. Otherwise I will continue down this road. I try and search for information but most of the time I read it and dont understand it because it is written with all types of abbreviations and acronyms as well as industry language. I am totally new to this kind of thing and need a full explanation of things in order for it to make sense to me.

For instance, when looking up things on prohormones some people talk about PCT. I have deduced from the readings that it is a post supplement type thing that is taken after the cycle. As far as what PCT stands for or what it is or what needs to be taken is beyond me. This type of information problem is the root of my issue with starting out with body transformation.

On other non related forums they have a newbie guide written by one of their forum pro's that explains new topics in detail. If this forum has anything like this pertaining to prohormones, problems of using prohormones and not having diet and training down first, supplements, and body transformation and diet then please feel free to direct me to these. I appreciate you taking the time to do so and know that you will be helping out someone who has suffered his whole life with people grabbing his wrists telling him "omg ur wrists are so small" "you are like an starving Ethiopian" etc. I am 28 now and need to do something about this issue. I suspect I am naturally low on testosterone or some other hormone that affects such things. Any information you provide you can then feel good knowing that you helped someone in need and not merely a self absorbed person worshiping his body. I have been ridiculed my entire life for this and it is time it stops. As I get older because of this problem I stand out more in the settings of my every day life. People tell me I dont look 28 and I get carded for everything I buy. I am about to graduate law school and I know this issue will affect my being able to fit into a law firm. Clients dont want to be represented by a person that looks to be 20 years old. My wife is starting to lose interest and it is hurting our marriage, I know that if I fix my issue then she will notice me again.

The reason why I disclose all of this is to motivate others to help not merely criticize and move on. Please provide what I need to do to get my diet and training down first. Thank you.

prohormones are steroids. you will shrink right back to your original size after taking them. unless you eat meat and potatoes all day long.

[Street-dreams]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Creatine (pill form)
Fish oil (pill form)
Multivitamin (pill form)
Protien (pill form)

I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

for creatine in pill form id go for green bulge by controlled labs... stay away from creatine ethyl ester as it is a less efficient source of creatine.

[theGuy045]

for creatine in pill form id go for green bulge by controlled labs... stay away from creatine ethyl ester as it is a less efficient source of creatine.

source?

[mk.ultra]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Creatine (pill form)
Fish oil (pill form)
Multivitamin (pill form)
Protien (pill form)

I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

ok, so you havent even started working out and your about to go on prohormones?
i used to be 155lb at 6'2". i just started lifting hard about 5 months ago and ive gained weight ridiculously fast. i thought prohormones were for breaking through plateaus.

[Hutchy56]

Ok so I have decided to undergo a body transformation. I have been skinny my entire life and want to change this now. I am 28 years old, 6'4", 175lbs. I will post a picture later in thread to document how I looked before I started.

My question to you is this... Which supplements should I buy if I will be doing a prohormone cycle 1-T MUSCLE STACK (ORAL) from PrimordialP and the P90X workout with supplemental workout at the gym when I have time.

If anyone has a suggestion for any supplements to add to this cycle then please post the brand name and name of substance. I have no problem buying from bodybuilding.com and money is no issue for me. I really have no idea at this point what is good and what is bad. I just want the best results and the best stuff so as to make this go at body transformation a definate success.

My goals are to get bigger. I want a V shape along with a larger neck and larger shoulders. I also want generally to get bigger. But want to stay lean with very little excess fat after I complete the transformation.

Some supplements that I think might be good are
Creatine (pill form)
Fish oil (pill form)
Multivitamin (pill form)
Protien (pill form)

I want the fastest gains possible without having to stick a needle in my arz.
I am allergic to milk products and the last time I tried those whey protein shakes I threw up violently and I generally have a weak tummy. Therefore, anything you suggest should be in pill form.

Please make suggestions for the above supplements and any other supplement that will go well with the prohormone cycle. If you can post where to buy it if the forum wont let you do that then just give the brand name and name of product. Also, if you could tell me how much to take per day of the supplement because at this point I am new the bodybuilding world. I have worked out in the past and played sports but have not been active for a few years. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help with this. As soon as I get all of the information I need I will start the transformation and post pictures back here to show the results.

protein in a pill form? the only protein ina pill form i can think of is a liver supplement like universals uni-liver. They're good and cheap but its just a extra you are gona need some type of protein powder, or post workout powder.
I would suggest
multivitamin- really doesnt matter just get the essentials
fish oil-brand doesnt matter get the cheapest
protein- If your allergic to lactose then they make tons of powders that are like 95% lactose free, but you need some form of whey protein.
creatine- I dont know any good pills except controlled labs makes something like green magnitude but its in pill form, and if you dont like that then i just use pure creatine monohydrate and put a teaspoon in myh post workout shake.

[ionlyknowy]

You managed to find the supplement section so I imagine you can find the Workout Programs, Nutrition and Exercises sections. Go there and read the stickies.

And I am not clear, is the workout program you are planning P90X?

yea p90x but I intend to go to the gym when I have time to supplement the program.

[ionlyknowy]

for creatine in pill form id go for green bulge by controlled labs... stay away from creatine ethyl ester as it is a less efficient source of creatine.

Wow thanks for the tip. I was gonna go with another creatine pill but you suggestion is superior.

[ionlyknowy]

I have taken all of the suggestions into account so far and updated the original post with the products I feel would be the best.

Please continue to suggest though because I want to make an informed decision and use the best products for my needs.

[gchrisos]

Thank you for your response and I respect it very much. I intend to use them but will take what you said into account. Can you provide me with references to sources where I can learn how to "get your diet and training down first"? Instead of telling me how bad my ideas are please help me. This is why I am in the position I am today, I dont know where to go to get this information for my specific needs, I dont know how to calculate things in regards to food, I dont know what is good for "getting it down first" and what is bad. I need information and criticism not just the criticism

I have always valued criticism because it helps me learn my mistakes. BUT when criticism is offered without any information to make me better and correct the target mistakes of the criticism then this is the type of criticism that is useless and that I do not value. If you would like please tell me what I am doing wrong and how to correct it with specific information, enough information that I can correct the mistake. Otherwise I will continue down this road. I try and search for information but most of the time I read it and dont understand it because it is written with all types of abbreviations and acronyms as well as industry language. I am totally new to this kind of thing and need a full explanation of things in order for it to make sense to me.

For instance, when looking up things on prohormones some people talk about PCT. I have deduced from the readings that it is a post supplement type thing that is taken after the cycle. As far as what PCT stands for or what it is or what needs to be taken is beyond me. This type of information problem is the root of my issue with starting out with body transformation.

On other non related forums they have a newbie guide written by one of their forum pro's that explains new topics in detail. If this forum has anything like this pertaining to prohormones, problems of using prohormones and not having diet and training down first, supplements, and body transformation and diet then please feel free to direct me to these. I appreciate you taking the time to do so and know that you will be helping out someone who has suffered his whole life with people grabbing his wrists telling him "omg ur wrists are so small" "you are like an starving Ethiopian" etc. I am 28 now and need to do something about this issue. I suspect I am naturally low on testosterone or some other hormone that affects such things. Any information you provide you can then feel good knowing that you helped someone in need and not merely a self absorbed person worshiping his body. I have been ridiculed my entire life for this and it is time it stops. As I get older because of this problem I stand out more in the settings of my every day life. People tell me I dont look 28 and I get carded for everything I buy. I am about to graduate law school and I know this issue will affect my being able to fit into a law firm. Clients dont want to be represented by a person that looks to be 20 years old. My wife is starting to lose interest and it is hurting our marriage, I know that if I fix my issue then she will notice me again.

The reason why I disclose all of this is to motivate others to help not merely criticize and move on. Please provide what I need to do to get my diet and training down first. Thank you.

First of all, I commend the fact that you are taking the time to address some of your questions and actually seem open to feedback from people who have seen result, are much more knowledgeable, and also have a host of more experience with diet, supplements, workout programs, etc.

However, with that said, you really can't blame the response of that person who responded the way he did (which, trust me. I'm on these forums every day, he wasn't being harsh at all). While I truly believe your intentions are good and already said I respect your approach, you also have to be willing to consider the other side. Every single day there are countless posts just like this. Posts like this sometimes give the impression of laziness and complacency. As if people want others to do all the research for them and simply provide them with all the information to succeed. One of the great things about this online community is the abundance of information on here. So many times, taking the initiative to research independently is really valued and looked at in a positive light.

Think about the logic of the response you got. You are stating you are planning or wanting to take pro hormones then in the next paragraph say you don't understand what a PCT is. It is a natural response (and a correct one furthermore) for someone then to conclude if you don't even know what a PCT is, you are lightyears away from taking and benefiting from a PH. And you are highly likely to take them negligently and seriously risk damaging yourself with very probable return of any tangible benefits.

Anyone with any knowledge of bodybuilding or even a more casual approach will tell you everything starts with diet and nutrition. There are so many people on these forums that want the easy way out. They think taking supplements while neglecting that first and very important step will yield them results....it won't. Supplement at its core word is "supplment". It assists something that is already in place correctly. I promise you supplements or pro hormones without diet and nutrition and good workout program in place do nothing.

Take for instance people that are newer to lifting. They may have very poor diets and poor workout programs but they are supplementing with things such as creatine, protein, pre workouts, amino acids, etc. And they start getting bigger and stronger. They then illogically attribute those gains to the supplements. LOL, this is reverse logic. They have made gains because they are new to lifting and that is the natural response of muscular hypertrophy. They would have made the same gains without those supplements.

So, if your response is "I don't know anything about food or nutrition and I want to skip this step and learn about the other things" then this forum isnt the place for you. If you are serious (which I sense you are) why skip over the most overlooked yet most important piece of the puzzle? You have already gotten some good advice. Some good foods to eat. You want things that are "clean" foods (good nutritional breakdown and balance of carbs, proteins, and fats) and things that are calorie dense (lots of clean calories). You want things high in protein because its the building block to muscle. You want complex carbs to give you sustained energy and insulin, and you want a moderate amount of good fat (olive oil, nuts, peanut butter). You have been given advice on how to track these items so you can become calorie conscious and aware. Then take some very basic supplements that are staples.

Protein (whether it be soy or whey isolate ((lactose free)
multi vitamin
fish oil

Then lift hard and smart.

[ionlyknowy]

prohormones are steroids. you will shrink right back to your original size after taking them. unless you eat meat and potatoes all day long.

Well, just based on common sense, I can say that if I do take prohormones, AND workout for the cycle and post cycle, then I will necessarily be bigger in the sense of having more muscle mass. If I eat the recommended 3500 calories during cycle I should gain weight as well. Then theoretically if I end the cycle and go back to my same routine, I still will have the muscle built but will probably lose the fat due to my body chem and diet.

I have worked out before. At a time I was looking rather cut in college. Not hardcore but was doing pushups every night, dips, benchpress and curls in my apartment. Did this for about 8 months. Just based on this time in my life, I got bigger and stayed bigger and have retained much of this muscle today. My muscles arent as big.. no they arent, but they did break me out of the "no muscle what so ever" body I had. Now I have curves and defined muscles just not outstanding. I look rather normal now as far as my chest and upper arms but my wrists and legs are really really skinny and I have almost no body fat.

This is not a shot in the dark, I intend to transform my body not just workout for 1-2 months. This includes diet change. It is time.

[gchrisos]

Well, just based on common sense, I can say that if I do take prohormones, AND workout for the cycle and post cycle, then I will necessarily be bigger in the sense of having more muscle mass. If I eat the recommended 3500 calories during cycle I should gain weight as well. Then theoretically if I end the cycle and go back to my same routine, I still will have the muscle built but will probably lose the fat due to my body chem and diet.

I have worked out before. At a time I was looking rather cut in college. Not hardcore but was doing pushups every night, dips, benchpress and curls in my apartment. Did this for about 8 months. Just based on this time in my life, I got bigger and stayed bigger and have retained much of this muscle today. My muscles arent as big.. no they arent, but they did break me out of the "no muscle what so ever" body I had. Now I have curves and defined muscles just not outstanding. I look rather normal now as far as my chest and upper arms but my wrists and legs are really really skinny and I have almost no body fat.

This is not a shot in the dark, I intend to transform my body not just workout for 1-2 months. This includes diet change. It is time.

Listen, you may take this as negative, but so be it. I don't think we need any after reading the thread (you just are very "green" when it comes to these issues) but that response is 100% confirmation you are no where near being ready to take these types of supplements. Your analogy and the response you received are not comparing apples to apples...at all. No one maintains their gains post cycle. Now, some people regain a portion of them (hence making them worthwhile) but everyone loses something after a cycle...people who are naive or ran them without diet in check both before and after will lose all their gains. A very simplistic response or rationale for that is simply when you are on steroids your body is an a state of being anabolic that it cannot naturally reproduce. So the way your muscle recover, grow, retain, etc is far enhanced. When you come off them, your body and hormones regulate back to natural levels. You will subsequently lose some (if not all in some cases) what you have gained.

[Lookitskeith]

Well, just based on common sense, I can say that if I do take prohormones, AND workout for the cycle and post cycle, then I will necessarily be bigger in the sense of having more muscle mass. If I eat the recommended 3500 calories during cycle I should gain weight as well. Then theoretically if I end the cycle and go back to my same routine, I still will have the muscle built but will probably lose the fat due to my body chem and diet.

I have worked out before. At a time I was looking rather cut in college. Not hardcore but was doing pushups every night, dips, benchpress and curls in my apartment. Did this for about 8 months. Just based on this time in my life, I got bigger and stayed bigger and have retained much of this muscle today. My muscles arent as big.. no they arent, but they did break me out of the "no muscle what so ever" body I had. Now I have curves and defined muscles just not outstanding. I look rather normal now as far as my chest and upper arms but my wrists and legs are really really skinny and I have almost no body fat.

This is not a shot in the dark, I intend to transform my body not just workout for 1-2 months. This includes diet change. It is time.

Generally people use this site to bounce their knowledge off of each other, not ask for everything on a silver platter.. I mean dude.. you are on bodybuilding.com, if you really can't find all the information you need and more, then you really have no business near weights.. In each section there are stickys, for every person to read as a Staple to each section, tips for workout programs, tips for diet, and so much more... before taking a prohormone, I suggest you get in a routine and begin making progress, THEN add a prohormone into your training. But you also need to research each prohormone, know the risks and how to combat and ill effect. I am also skinny right now, im 6'2 160, Im coming off breaking my sternum that made me drop from 185.. ive been back in the gym for a few months now watching my strength go up, and I am about to start a prohormone cycle with a proper diet.. and I will see awesome results.. but ive been figuring out everything i need for this cycle over the past few months... it takes alot of research.. that you need to do yourself.. once you have an idea come back and ask for critiques.. but dont expect it to be just given to you..

[ionlyknowy]

First of all, I commend the fact that you are taking the time to address some of your questions and actually seem open to feedback from people who have seen result, are much more knowledgeable, and also have a host of more experience with diet, supplements, workout programs, etc.

However, with that said, you really can't blame the response of that person who responded the way he did (which, trust me. I'm on these forums every day, he wasn't being harsh at all). While I truly believe your intentions are good and already said I respect your approach, you also have to be willing to consider the other side. Every single day there are countless posts just like this. Posts like this sometimes give the impression of laziness and complacency. As if people want others to do all the research for them and simply provide them with all the information to succeed. One of the great things about this online community is the abundance of information on here. So many times, taking the initiative to research independently is really valued and looked at in a positive light.

Think about the logic of the response you got. You are stating you are planning or wanting to take pro hormones then in the next paragraph say you don't understand what a PCT is. It is a natural response (and a correct one furthermore) for someone then to conclude if you don't even know what a PCT is, you are lightyears away from taking and benefiting from a PH. And you are highly likely to take them negligently and seriously risk damaging yourself with very probable return of any tangible benefits.

Anyone with any knowledge of bodybuilding or even a more casual approach will tell you everything starts with diet and nutrition. There are so many people on these forums that want the easy way out. They think taking supplements while neglecting that first and very important step will yield them results....it won't. Supplement at its core word is "supplment". It assists something that is already in place correctly. I promise you supplements or pro hormones without diet and nutrition and good workout program in place do nothing.

Take for instance people that are newer to lifting. They may have very poor diets and poor workout programs but they are supplementing with things such as creatine, protein, pre workouts, amino acids, etc. And they start getting bigger and stronger. They then illogically attribute those gains to the supplements. LOL, this is reverse logic. They have made gains because they are new to lifting and that is the natural response of muscular hypertrophy. They would have made the same gains without those supplements.

So, if your response is "I don't know anything about food or nutrition and I want to skip this step and learn about the other things" then this forum isnt the place for you. If you are serious (which I sense you are) why skip over the most overlooked yet most important piece of the puzzle? You have already gotten some good advice. Some good foods to eat. You want things that are "clean" foods (good nutritional breakdown and balance of carbs, proteins, and fats) and things that are calorie dense (lots of clean calories). You want things high in protein because its the building block to muscle. You want complex carbs to give you sustained energy and insulin, and you want a moderate amount of good fat (olive oil, nuts, peanut butter). You have been given advice on how to track these items so you can become calorie conscious and aware. Then take some very basic supplements that are staples.

Protein (whether it be soy or whey isolate ((lactose free)
multi vitamin
fish oil

Then lift hard and smart.

My intentions with starting this post were to ascertain every aspect of the body transformation. I felt that the supplement section would be the best to post this thread because I felt that diet and supplements were a necessary factor and being more specialized than "exercise" or "workout program". Anyone can find a sufficient workout program or exercise but as far as the supplements/prohormones/diet (which I have no idea about) are harder to find out about and understand.

My intentions with this post were to gather all the information that I need to then undergo this transformation. I want to be entirely enlightened before I start doing this. I have attempted in the past to build muscle but failed miserably and became frustrated and decided that my body just didnt want to be normal.

I have been cut and pasting every piece of good info into my MS one note pad and will use this information once I start undergoing the tranformation. I already updated the original post with the supplements I felt were the best. I have taken note of the foods people have suggested and even decided to eat boston market tonight with white chicken breast corn and potatos. (they didnt have rice, and im allergic to mac n cheese cause of the cheese). Once I feel like I have all the information I need so that this time will be a success I will start. Thank you for your suggestions

[gchrisos]

Generally people use this site to bounce their knowledge off of each other, not ask for everything on a silver platter.. I mean dude.. you are on bodybuilding.com, if you really can't find all the information you need and more, then you really have no business near weights.. In each section there are stickys, for every person to read as a Staple to each section, tips for workout programs, tips for diet, and so much more... before taking a prohormone, I suggest you get in a routine and begin making progress, THEN add a prohormone into your training. But you also need to research each prohormone, know the risks and how to combat and ill effect. I am also skinny right now, im 6'2 160, Im coming off breaking my sternum that made me drop from 185.. ive been back in the gym for a few months now watching my strength go up, and I am about to start a prohormone cycle with a proper diet.. and I will see awesome results.. but ive been figuring out everything i need for this cycle over the past few months... it takes alot of research.. that you need to do yourself.. once you have an idea come back and ask for critiques.. but dont expect it to be just given to you..

^ This

[ionlyknowy]

Listen, you may take this as negative, but so be it. I don't think we need any after reading the thread (you just are very "green" when it comes to these issues) but that response is 100% confirmation you are no where near being ready to take these types of supplements. Your analogy and the response you received are not comparing apples to apples...at all. No one maintains their gains post cycle. Now, some people regain a portion of them (hence making them worthwhile) but everyone loses something after a cycle...people who are naive or ran them without diet in check both before and after will lose all their gains. A very simplistic response or rationale for that is simply when you are on steroids your body is an a state of being anabolic that it cannot naturally reproduce. So the way your muscle recover, grow, retain, etc is far enhanced. When you come off them, your body and hormones regulate back to natural levels. You will subsequently lose some (if not all in some cases) what you have gained.

oh ok, well you would know better than me. I was assuming it would be the same as my past experiences with my body. Cant learn if you dont ask or research and im doing this now.