Advice: Bill Starr 5x5 for Intermediate Lifters

[Thizzlam]

Hey everyone,
I have been working out for about a year now consistantly, I am pretty happy with my progress so far but I am just starting to get serious about working out at 22. I am around 6,3 218 lbs and have been using a typical bodybuilding split for the entire first year of my training.
I have pretty much stalled on most of my db lifts so I have been looking to build some mass with a new workout I usually perform 3 sets of 12,10,8 for each exersize.

Right now I have just done the first day of Bill Starr 5x5 for Intermediate lifters, my question here is will this benifit a person with my frame and size? Will I lose all the work I have put in from my current split doing only compound movements? Any advice at all would be much appreciated!

Here is a picture of me right now just to give you a better idea also my stats are:
1RM
Squat 235
Bench 175
Row 165
Dead 265
Incline 125 (estimate havnt checked this yet)

[sabonis224]

Yes, No, and follow the program the way it is written and you'll have great results is all the advice i have for you.

[Thizzlam]

Have you acctually used this program and still seen progress in your arms? I know they are all compound movements but I just wanted to see what results people saw

[rrich1]

in all honesty you dont have much in size. Your lifts are not very big for a 1rm. It would be better for you to start at a beginner routine like SS. I know you have been lifting for a year but your 1rm lifts will be for reps in less than 2 months on rippetoes.

edit: your numbers dont place you into an interdiate lifter even though you have workedout for a year.

[Thizzlam]

in all honesty you dont have much in size. Your lifts are not very big for a 1rm. It would be better for you to start at a beginner routine like SS. I know you have been lifting for a year but your 1rm lifts will be for reps in less than 2 months on rippetoes.

edit: your numbers dont place you into an interdiate lifter even though you have workedout for a year.

Okay great, this is exactally the type of advice I am looking for I would be better off should I give starting strength a try instead? Remember I am 6,3 so my muscles dont look that big haha.

[rrich1]

Okay great, this is exactally the type of advice I am looking for I would be better off should I give starting strength a try instead? Remember I am 6,3 so my muscles dont look that big haha.

yes. Im 601 so not much shorter than you. read the wiki page and buy the book. Start at a lower weight than you think since you will be increasing the weight every workout. if you start to heavy you will stall out way to quickly and it will take you a lot longer to achieve the same goals.

dont just do it for 2 months and think you are done. beginners like us can run this program for a very long time, even a year long. resetting and dropping the weight is all part of the program. if 5lbs gets to heavy start doing 2.5lb increments. I just started that today for my bench that way i dont stall out yet. in two months i am repping 3x5 what i was doing only 2 times at a time since i started the program.

[r_graz]

Okay great, this is exactally the type of advice I am looking for I would be better off should I give starting strength a try instead? Remember I am 6,3 so my muscles dont look that big haha.

Nothing to do with how big your muscles look. If those are your 1RM lifts at your height and weight, an intermediate strength routine is not what you need. If a strength routine is what you want, a novice routine like Starting Strength is much more appropriate for you right now. The intermediate 5x5 is only going to produce much slower progress than you're capable of right now.

[Thizzlam]

yes. Im 601 so not much shorter than you. read the wiki page and buy the book. Start at a lower weight than you think since you will be increasing the weight every workout. if you start to heavy you will stall out way to quickly and it will take you a lot longer to achieve the same goals.

dont just do it for 2 months and think you are done. beginners like us can run this program for a very long time, even a year long. resetting and dropping the weight is all part of the program. if 5lbs gets to heavy start doing 2.5lb increments. I just started that today for my bench that way i dont stall out yet. in two months i am repping 3x5 what i was doing only 2 times at a time since i started the program.

Thanks for the advice man I'll look into it for sure! Although I found todays workout to be pretty easy I guess I can see how the 5 sets would start to ware on me.

I am still open to any advice from people the more the better!

[rrich1]

Thanks for the advice man I'll look into it for sure! Although I found todays workout to be pretty easy I guess I can see how the 5 sets would start to ware on me.

I am still open to any advice from people the more the better!

did you do SS or bill stars? SS a 3x5 and not 5x5. At the beginning SS will take around 45 min to complete but will increase to well over an hour. The big jumps in weight every workout will make you take a little longer in between sets.

like i said before, dont worry in the first two weeks or so about the weight and how light it feels. you increase every workout and will be much harder to complete. im drenched in sweat after everyworkout.

r_graz repped for good advice.

[Thizzlam]

did you do SS or bill stars? SS a 3x5 and not 5x5. At the beginning SS will take around 45 min to complete but will increase to well over an hour. The big jumps in weight every workout will make you take a little longer in between sets.

like i said before, dont worry in the first two weeks or so about the weight and how light it feels. you increase every workout and will be much harder to complete. im drenched in sweat after everyworkout.

r_graz repped for good advice.

What I did earlier today was the Monday workout off Bill Starr's 5x5. I worked up a little sweat took 1 min 30 seconds rest but didnt work up as much of a set as on my usual splits didnt feel a huge pump either.
I just also took a look at riptoes starting strength it seems to be essentially the same thing as this program with less sets. I guess if you count warmup the difference is only 1 set per exersize.

[rrich1]

What I did earlier today was the Monday workout off Bill Starr's 5x5. I worked up a little sweat took 1 min 30 seconds rest but didnt work up as much of a set as on my usual splits didnt feel a huge pump either.
I just also took a look at riptoes starting strength it seems to be essentially the same thing as this program with less sets. I guess if you count warmup the difference is only 1 set per exersize.

with rippetoes there is no light, med, heavy day.

[Rdez]

Have you acctually used this program and still seen progress in your arms? I know they are all compound movements but I just wanted to see what results people saw

I've been doing this program (Bill Star 5x5 Intermediate) over the course of the last year, taking breaks as necessary, and losing some time here and there due to illness, injury. But basically I've stuck to it religiously.

I've seen minimal increases in muscle size/bulk in the past year. Yes, I've definitely improved my overall size, and yes I look a lot better, but nothing to brag about. Strength has really improved, though. That's more the point of the program. I'm about to switch to a more high volume / split approach to try and get some noticeable hypertrophy so I have something to 'show' for all my work.

[wick]

I've been doing this program over the course of the last year, taking breaks as necessary, and losing some time here and there due to illness, injury. But basically I've stuck to it religiously.

I've seen minimal increases in muscle size/bulk in the past year. Yes, I've definitely improved my overall size, and yes I look a lot better, but nothing to brag about. Strength has really improved, though. That's more the point of the program. I'm about to switch to a more high volume / split approach to try and get some noticeable hypertrophy so I have something to 'show' for all my work.

How much are you eating?

I'm doing Madcow's and I've made considerable gains in both size and strength in 12 weeks.

[Thizzlam]

How much are you eating?

I'm doing Madcow's and I've made considerable gains in both size and strength in 12 weeks.

What are your stats right now? and is madcows just another version of the 5x5?

[wick]

What are your stats right now? and is madcows just another version of the 5x5?

Yeah it's another version. Very similar

<-- BW and height are there. Started at 208 or so

Bench from 160x5 -> 232x5
Squat from 200x5 -> 320x5 (was doing a diff squat routine though)
Pendlay Row from 154x5 -> 210x5
Deadlift from 309x5 -> 398x5
Military from 127x5 -> 172x5

[Thizzlam]

Yeah it's another version. Very similar

<-- BW and height are there. Started at 208 or so

Bench from 160x5 -> 232x5
Squat from 200x5 -> 320x5 (was doing a diff squat routine though)
Pendlay Row from 154x5 -> 210x5
Deadlift from 309x5 -> 398x5
Military from 127x5 -> 172x5

Do you suggest I stick with the 5x5 or try beginners strength, I started the first day of bill starrs today and found it to be pretty good didnt struggle too much.

[FastCatChamp]

I just also took a look at riptoes starting strength it seems to be essentially the same thing as this program with less sets. I guess if you count warmup the difference is only 1 set per exersize.

The programs are only the same in that they emphasize compund lifts(i.e. squats, deads, bench, cleans/rows, press). The difference lies in the linear progression.

Starting Strength should start with low weights for 3x5 sets across (i.e same weight for all three sets). Each workout sees an increase in weight so that if workout 1 has squats at 150, workout 2 will be 155 and workout 3 will be 160. Some people actually jack weights up 10 pounds per workout then back off to five when it gets tiresome and heavy as hell. YOU ARE CONSIDERED A BEGINNER IF YOU CAN MAINTAIN THIS WORKOUT TO WORKOUT PROGRESSION IN THE LIFTS.

Starr's 5x5 or Madcows is considered intermediate because the people using the program are to a point in their training where they cannot maintain workout-workout increases in weight. These trainees look to make weekly increases. YOU ARE CONSIDERED AN INTERMEDIATE WHEN YOU ARE UNABLE TO MAINTAIN WORKOUT-TO-WORKOUT PROGRESSION.

I agree that with your stats you are surely a beginner. Read up on Starting Strength and embrace being a beginner as this is the period of your training where you will see increases every workout. By the way, Starting Strength will seem easy for a few weeks if you have correctly set the weights low enough. In weeks 3-4-5 you will see the method to the madness. Weeks 6+ begin to kick your ass. Then you know that the program is for you.

[wick]

Do you suggest I stick with the 5x5 or try beginners strength, I started the first day of bill starrs today and found it to be pretty good didnt struggle too much.

Look, I don't know what would be best. You could definitely make some quick progression on SS though.. I decided to take the SS Squat program (3x5 3x a week heavy) and do that instead of what was written out for me in the Madcow's program because my Squat sucked ass and I knew I could bring it up quick. Got it from 200x5 to 320x5 in a few months. Would've been quicker if I didn't go overseas for a few weeks either!

[r_graz]

Do you suggest I stick with the 5x5 or try beginners strength, I started the first day of bill starrs today and found it to be pretty good didnt struggle too much.

Your first 4 weeks of Starr's 5x5 should not be even close to a struggle. You don't start setting new PR's till week 5 on his program.

And like I said above, I have experience with both Starting Strength and the Starr int. 5x5. Your lifts suggest you'd make faster progress on Starting Strength right now. For your size, you are not very strong.

[Thizzlam]

Your first 4 weeks of Starr's 5x5 should not be even close to a struggle. You don't start setting new PR's till week 5 on his program.

And like I said above, I have experience with both Starting Strength and the Starr int. 5x5. Your lifts suggest you'd make faster progress on Starting Strength right now. For your size, you are not very strong.

Alright cool you guys have convinced me to start SS which I will be starting tommorrow. I only have 1 issue which is is 1 set of Dead lifts really enough. I know that some weeks it will be 2 sets but it doesnt seem like enough considering my deadlift is one of my more developed lifts.

[rrich1]

Alright cool you guys have convinced me to start SS which I will be starting tommorrow. I only have 1 issue which is is 1 set of Dead lifts really enough. I know that some weeks it will be 2 sets but it doesnt seem like enough considering my deadlift is one of my more developed lifts.

yes it is. you already squat that day and with the warm up sets it will be enough. again you will be adding 10lbs everytime you deadlift until you can only add 5lbs a workout.

[Thizzlam]

Your first 4 weeks of Starr's 5x5 should not be even close to a struggle. You don't start setting new PR's till week 5 on his program.

And like I said above, I have experience with both Starting Strength and the Starr int. 5x5. Your lifts suggest you'd make faster progress on Starting Strength right now. For your size, you are not very strong.

Alright cool you guys have convinced me to start SS which I will be starting tommorrow. I only have 1 issue which is is 1 set of Dead lifts really enough. I know that some weeks it will be 2 sets but it doesnt seem like enough considering my deadlift is one of my more developed lifts.

[rrich1]

Alright cool you guys have convinced me to start SS which I will be starting tommorrow. I only have 1 issue which is is 1 set of Dead lifts really enough. I know that some weeks it will be 2 sets but it doesnt seem like enough considering my deadlift is one of my more developed lifts.

you just repeated your last post.

[MISSINGLINK]

Is this thread a joke??? You have no size whatsoever. How much are you deadlifting? This sounds trollish.

[r_graz]

I only have 1 issue which is is 1 set of Dead lifts really enough.

Google Mark Rippetoe. Read up on his experience both as a lifter and for several decades as a strength and conditioning coach.

Do you think he would have structured the routine the way he did if one set was not enough in the context of the routine?

This is why anyone who plans to make a go of this routine should buy and read Starting Strength. It's not some glossy, gimmicky thing that a celebrity athlete or bodybuilder put their name on to make a quick buck off of the gullible - it's a serious piece of work about the basic lifts, nutrition, programming, and tons of other nuggets of information that will benefit you for as long as you lift weights.

[Thizzlam]

Is this thread a joke??? You have no size whatsoever. How much are you deadlifting? This sounds trollish.

Its obviosly not a joke since I am actually getting the information I need to improve myself, thanks for the input though. I am not here to argue or stroke my cyber ego I am here for advice which the rest of these people provided.

Thanks for nothing bud

[Thizzlam]

Google Mark Rippetoe. Read up on his experience both as a lifter and for several decades as a strength and conditioning coach.

Do you think he would have structured the routine the way he did if one set was not enough in the context of the routine?

This is why anyone who plans to make a go of this routine should buy and read Starting Strength. It's not some glossy, gimmicky thing that a celebrity athlete or bodybuilder put their name on to make a quick buck off of the gullible - it's a serious piece of work about the basic lifts, nutrition, programming, and tons of other nuggets of information that will benefit you for as long as you lift weights.

Done I am gonna look into buying the book and gonna give it a go and let you guys know what happens a couple of weeks from now. Thanks for the advice man it is much appreciated (and needed aparerntly). I will be starting the cycle as of tommorow following the workout to the T.