Car Buying Tips from a Former Car salesman....Save lots of $$$

[bomb1977]

Hey guys, I sold cars for a year and a half while my wife was pregnant and on maternity leave. I learned a lot of stuff and I am sharing it all in my ******** group for free.

Many websited out there will charge you $19.95-$29.95 to view this kind of info. I never charge friends for anything...it is all there for free.

Add yourself and invite all of your friends. I will be there to answer questions.

http://www.********.com/home.php?#!/...8404236&ref=mf

I think the entire industry is full of scum, I got out and will never return. I do know what I am talking about, I spent several years in corporate sales before taking this break to enjoy my son being born.

Topics include...

So you want to mess with salespeople? Let me help you out...
When you shoud buy, a helpful timeline
Why you don't want to buy a Demo...
Negotiating, the things you always wanted to know
Your Visit To Dealership A,B,C,D...etc
The Art Of The Trade In
My story, My background...
USED CARS
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 4)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 3)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 2)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 1)

[barracudal]

how do you get the best deal from a low volume dealership? I've been looking at a subaru STI and the dealers around here only have 1 on the their lots at any given time. they get people to pay MSRP because multiple people are always interested in the cars and it's not like they have dozens sitting on the lot. I spent 3 hours in a dealership and only got them down $500 off the MSRP if I were to order one or have them bring one in from another dealership. any advice?

[ispy]

inb4 someone paraphrases / copy pastes that info in to an ebook, and sells it.

[amato9588]

I'll check it out. In the market to trade in my 03 TL Type S for a newer car.

[WheyneNewton]

lol at Tonya

[paradoxman]

Hey guys, I sold cars for a year and a half while my wife was pregnant and on maternity leave. I learned a lot of stuff and I am sharing it all in my ******** group for free.

Many websited out there will charge you $19.95-$29.95 to view this kind of info. I never charge friends for anything...it is all there for free.

Add yourself and invite all of your friends. I will be there to answer questions.

http://www.********.com/home.php?#!/...8404236&ref=mf

I think the entire industry is full of scum, I got out and will never return. I do know what I am talking about, I spent several years in corporate sales before taking this break to enjoy my son being born.

Topics include...

So you want to mess with salespeople? Let me help you out...
When you shoud buy, a helpful timeline
Why you don't want to buy a Demo...
Negotiating, the things you always wanted to know
Your Visit To Dealership A,B,C,D...etc
The Art Of The Trade In
My story, My background...
USED CARS
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 4)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 3)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 2)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 1)

Why don't you just post these things on here instead of ********?

[bomb1977]

how do you get the best deal from a low volume dealership? I've been looking at a subaru STI and the dealers around here only have 1 on the their lots at any given time. they get people to pay MSRP because multiple people are always interested in the cars and it's not like they have dozens sitting on the lot. I spent 3 hours in a dealership and only got them down $500 off the MSRP if I were to order one or have them bring one in from another dealership. any advice?

The best trick is to use your email to your advantage. Start working deals with online with all of the dealerships within reasonable driving distance of your home. Play them one at a time and take the best deal and reference it to the next person in line asking them it they can match or beat it. Make sure to mention that you are a pre-qualified buyer and you are just looking for the best deal before you buy.

Then after negotiating online (they will all negotiate, they will first try to get you to come in...just use the "I'm qualified, just looking for the best price" line) take the best 2-3 offers into your local dealership including the make, model, trim level and options and tell them that you are ready to buy and these are the offers you have recieved. If they won't factory order you one to match the spces the other dealers have quoted you...do the deal with somebody else. Low volume dealers need to make money too...they won't turn you away.

inb4 someone paraphrases / copy pastes that info in to an ebook, and sells it.

Says clearly in the post, copy it...claim it as your own as you wish. My SOLE intent is get the word out there. I want no credit.

[bomb1977]

Why don't you just post these things on here instead of ********?

I could do that, but I'm giving you the chance to join/view them in a forum that everybody and their brothers have acess to. I'm giving you the chance to help yourself and the people you know at the same time.

I have no issues with posting it here, just using ******** to reach the masses.

The auto industry won't be forced to evolve until their profit margins are cut, they simply make too much money right now...so why change? The more people I reach, the closer we get.

Dealers can make $3000-$5000 per vehicle if you don't do your research. They make a killing on service already, they don't need to make that much money on the front end too.

[Kaptn Krunch]

I could do that, but I'm giving you the chance to join/view them in a forum that everybody and their brothers have acess to. I'm giving you the chance to help yourself and the people you know at the same time.

If you post it here, more people will be able to read it while they're at work. My work blocks ********, so I can't see it.

[rogair]

Thanks bro. Just read most of it and it`s all good info.

[ProteinSupreme]

If you post it here, more people will be able to read it while they're at work. My work blocks ********, so I can't see it.

this

[Goat_187]

Hey guys, I sold cars for a year and a half while my wife was pregnant and on maternity leave. I learned a lot of stuff and I am sharing it all in my ******** group for free.

Many websited out there will charge you $19.95-$29.95 to view this kind of info. I never charge friends for anything...it is all there for free.

Add yourself and invite all of your friends. I will be there to answer questions.

http://www.********.com/home.php?#!/...8404236&ref=mf

I think the entire industry is full of scum, I got out and will never return. I do know what I am talking about, I spent several years in corporate sales before taking this break to enjoy my son being born.

Topics include...

So you want to mess with salespeople? Let me help you out...
When you shoud buy, a helpful timeline
Why you don't want to buy a Demo...
Negotiating, the things you always wanted to know
Your Visit To Dealership A,B,C,D...etc
The Art Of The Trade In
My story, My background...
USED CARS
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 4)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 3)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 2)
Car Buying Tips Are Here (Part 1)

strong links *******.


or we can just read this:

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

[garsome]

Not the whole industry if full of scum. It varies dealer to dealer. Did you sell new or used?

Oh and not all dealers make 3k a car. The successful high volume used lots profit anywhere from $500 to $1500 per car. Sure they profit more on unique cars but that's because the demand is there. They also lose on cars as well when they sit on their lot for a year.

Edit: Same go with salesmen. I know a bunch of honest good guys that sell (new and used) I also know some ****ing douche bags that sell.

[Dubs740]

good looking out bud

[bomb1977]

They aren't really in order, they are just random thoughts and tips that I jotted down.

1) You will get a better deal at the end of the month. #1 sales people, #2 sales managers and #3 dealerships are pushing to get deals signed before the end of the month for their bonuses. As long as the deal is signed before the last day of the month, you’re locked in.

tip...don't let this add pressure to you and your buying cycle. Let it put the pressure on the salesman, you can always wait 3 more weeks till they are all in the same scenario again. The sales manager will always give the "last few days of the month" speech at the last sales meeting of the month. Guaranteed.

2) Look for somebody new, they are often the easiest to read. The managers will also be more willing to take a lower profit on a sale to get the new guy/girl into the game. Don't be afraid to ask for a specific sales person if you think you hold an advantage over them. In some cases the weakest sales person is the manager...dealing directly with them is often the faster route to getting the best deal. They will "drop their pants" on the price faster to get you out the door, after all...they have a staff to babysit.

3) The advertised price is always higher than the price they can sell the vehicle for. You can check the selling price of just about any vehicle on the internet at the official manufacturer website. From there you should contact 3-5 sometimes even 7 dealerships for pricing. Unless you’re buying a Ferrari, odds are that there will be 10 dealerships within 100km of you. It costs on average about $8 in gas to drive 100km, do it to save thousands.

tip...find out the dealership in the area that sells the most cars (almost always Toronto) they sell the most because...they sell the cheapest and people will drive to save money. Just be careful with Toronto dealers, they often pad their fee's and add-on's to make up the difference. The solution = Just buy the vehicle and pass on the extra's...refuse to pay the fees.

tip...don't fall in love with a sales person, it will cost you money. They all make money from selling you a vehicle, the more profit they make...the more they get paid. All of the vehicles come off the same assembly line and they have the same basic factory warranty. You don't have to service where you buy, so don't over pay.

tip...get your oil changed at Buddy McWhoever's garage with the $19.99 special. You can change your own oil for about 15-20 bucks, so let him do it for you. Yeah he is gonna try to sucker you into an air filter you can buy at Canadian Tire for $13 and charge you $45...but the dealership would have charged you $80. Oil Changes are north of $40 now at most dealerships, save your money. Only go to the dealership for Technical Service Bulletins (TSB's), Recalls and Warranty work. Anything else will result in you keeping them in business, by paying twice as much as you should.

4) There is ALWAYS room to move on the price. Even if they are in fact taking a loss on the vehicle, they are getting bonuses from the manufacturer and kick backs from the financing company etc. Most dealerships can still make a $2000 profit, even if they sell you the vehicle "at cost". At Cost and at invoice are two different things.

5) Be careful with deposits/money down. The dealer (in rare cases) has the right to keep your deposit even if you cancel the sale. A neat trick (I'm gonna get linched for this and I don't care) is to "forget" your voided cheque when you pick up the vehicle, without this...the deal isn't complete. Most dealerships will let you go home and get it, or bring it in the next day. It's like a free test drive. If you don't bring in the cheque, they can't process the deal. So you really never took delivery They might refuse delivery though, so have the cheque in your wallet just incase

6) The internet is your friend. The information is all there, even pricing. Even the best dealership is no match for an internet savy person.

7) Every time you add an option, you’re putting more money in the dealership's pocket. There is a mark up on EVERYTHING! Adding extra's to the vehicle like side steps, tonneau covers, trailer hitches etc. can all be done after you buy the vehicle at a greatly reduced price. Aftermarket accessories are often both cheaper and higher quality, you can also get a direct fit for your needs. For example a $900 option might only cost the dealer $675 to add on, make sure you negotiate on this too. If they won't negotiate, another dealership will. THERE IS ALWAYS A DEALERSHIP GIVING CARS AWAY!! I can't tell you how many times I have had people walk in with ad's that I just couldn't match, same make/model/trim level too!

8) Now that you have bought the vehicle and got a great deal, don't give it all back in the business office (also called F&I office...Finance and Insurance) Decline, decline, decline, decline and decline and sign. The highest profit margins are in this area.

F&I managers (business managers) are often the best sales people in the dealership. This is the potentially higest paying position in the dealership. Well at a good dealership anyways. Almost all of them have sales experience...

Fact - You don't have to buy a warranty at the time of purchase. If you need a warranty to feel secure in your vehicle, perhaps you need to be looking at a more reliable and reputable brand. Poorer quality vehicles will only warranty the body for 3-5 years, this means you can expect to have a rust bucket on your hands in 6-7 years. WARRANTIES DIRECTLY REFLECT THE COMPANIES CONFIDENCE IN THE PRODUCT! If they know it will fall apart after 6 years, your getting a 5 year warranty!

tip...the price of the warranty is generally 50% for the actual warranty, 25% for the F&I person (who might be on 100% commission, which isn't your fault) and 25% to the dealership (who makes enough charging you 2x on repairs)

tip...Rust proofing is a) over rated and b) expensive! Often you are paying 3-4 times as much for the same rust module that you can buy at Canadian Tire and install yourself. Seriously it’s a very basic install. Even the most unskilled person can get it done in an hour. If you are worried about the vehicle rusting in 3-5 years, again maybe you are looking at the wrong brand.

Tip...Paint Protection is a) effective and b) expensive! Depending on the product the mark up is 5-10 times the actual cost. Do it yourself for about $40.

9) Admin fees – yuck, I always hated this one. In all honesty it goes to pay the staff. Really why should you be paying the salary of the sales person that is making a commission from selling you a vehicle? These fees can range anywhere from $99 to $499 or higher.

Tip...Just refuse to pay, they won’t let you walk...Your not paying the staff salaries, that's not your responsibility.

10) Etching Insurance, Tire Warranties, Nitrogen and other extra’s that often get lumped into a security package. These can run anywhere from $199 to $499 and higher, again depending on how greedy the dealership is. These are all basic forms of insurance that you can get at the time of purchase, just know that the dealer is making a profit on them, in most cases 50%.

Tip...a) the tire warranty is $5, take it. It covers you in the case of a tire blow out, you will get a free tire repair ($20 for a plug, $30 for a patch) If you get a flat outside of work hours, oh boy. You have to pay for it, you have to take them the reciept and then they have to send it away to the warranty company. Then when they get the money, they will issue you a cheque. Sounds like a cheesy mail in rebate from the 1980's, but everything in the auto industry is based off how they did things in the 1950's.

b) negotiate a decent price for the Nitrogen, if it’s already in the tire...they aren’t going to take it out. I would say 10-15 per tire is fair. The gas mileage gains they claim are both hard to prove and disprove, but the tires will last longer. 1 tire is around $200, so pay the $40 to $50 to save $200 in the long run.

c) Decline the etching. The dealer puts it on the vehicles because they have to for insurance purposes while they are sitting on the lot. They are transferring it to you and charging you twice what they paid for it. If you have replacement value on your car insurance, etching is totally worthless. If your vehicle is stolen and totally 100% vanishes off the face of the earth, you might be the one person in 250,000 that actually benefits from the insurance. Buy a lottery ticket, you will be just as well off in the long run.

11) WALK AWAY! Your feet are your most powerful negotiating tool. A dealership won’t let you walk away if they can sell you the vehicle at the price you are requesting. They will call you the next day, later in the week and for the next 2-3 months to attempt to lure you back. NEVER buy on the first visit, NEVER buy without at least 3 competitive quotes from the same manufacturer. Trust me, they will call...They will call you in 2-3 months when "the programs" change and your price is more realistic, drop your offer to compensate. Never pay what they ask. They are trying to make as much money as possible off you and everybody else that walks in the door!

12) What time of the year is it? Where is it in the model year? Typically the warmer it is, the better the deals are. Companies tend to put more program money on vehicles when people are buying, which pretty much means May-August. Also later in the model year, you can get a great deal. Especially if they have ten 2010 models and the 2011’s are due next month...they will want to move them. This is the one time that you might actually get a dealer to take a loss. He faces selling it to you for a $2000 loss or keeping it and a) driving it himself b) having one of his employees drive it or c) making it a company vehicle for parts/shuttle. This will cause a loss much larger than $2000 in the long run.

tip...you can find out what is selling in most cases through the ministry of transport, they track what sells month to month. if the info isn't public, you can still get it. Most dealers just think their sites and info are secure, where in most cases a 12 year old could hack into their systems. Remember the systems have to be easy enough for the older sales people and the owners to use.

13) If they don’t have it, make them factory order it. You can wait to get exactly what you want. Leave a $500 deposit to get them to put in the order for you. They will always, ALWAYS circle talk you into taking a vehicle on the lot! They will confuse you with options and price. If you want it, get it. Don't let a salesman talk you out of an option you want just because they want their commission in 2 weeks instead of 8 weeks down the road on an order. Don’t have them locate the vehicle at another dealer, this just adds to the cost of the vehicle. They have to pay 2 people to drive to the dealership and drive it back, plus gas both ways and sometimes depending on distance a meal for 2 people. This can add $200-$300 to the price of your vehicle, plus you’re not getting a new vehicle anymore. Your getting a vehicle that may have been driven 100km in test drives and then 100km to the dealership you purchased it at. It’s not your fault that the dealership doesn’t order the right cars. Cars are ordered in an annual meeting often by the people high up in the dealership, they order based on what they sold last year. They don’t order based on what people actually want. Often people that want something else, go elsewhere with the fault lying on the salesperson.

Follow these tips and you will save anywhere from $1000 to $5000 (yes, some trucks have $5000 in gross profit!) on your potential purchase, depending on the price of the vehicle. That’s a lot of money. $1000 is $20 a month over 5 years.

[bomb1977]

USED CARS

Well used cars are a little different. The first thing they will try to convince you is that there are no 2 used cars that are alike. Bull****, any car within 5-10 thousand km's with a similar option package pretty much has the same value.

Used cars are a great way to get more value than you can afford in a new car. You can often pay an extra 500 to 1000 dollars on a used car and get options that you will pay 3000-5000 for on a new car.

Rule #1 - Never buy from a manufacturer dealership. Don't buy a GM from a GM dealer, don't buy a Honda from a Honda dealer. If you do, your going to pay for it. All mechanics pass the same test, having a non name mechanic look at the Nissan Altima you are buying is no different than the actual Nissan dealership's mechanic doing it.

He has to Safety the vehicle and make sure it passes emissions if it is of age. If the brakes are heavily worn, they will replace the brake pads and possibly the rotors. Anybody can do this, hell I can do it...and I have. Brakes are easy, nobody should pay a dealership $1000 to do them.

Buying from a used car superstore is the best way to get a deal. Again shop around. It's really easy, just use Auto Trader. Every dealer is a stooge and uses Auto Trader, because they think everybody else does...and if they don't they will lose sales. Take advantage of this.

Just do an advanced search for your desired price range, make, model, year and KM range. Poof there is your list of every vehicle int he Hamilton Area that meets your requirement.

Rule #2 - Every dealer used a number code to track their inventory, on new cars it is basic and meaningless for the most part. On a used vehicle it will tell you almost exactly how long the vehicle has been on the lot. They think you are stupid and pretty much flaunt it right in front of you, almost every dealer lists by stock number on their website or on auto trader. Check it out for yourself. The lower the number is, the longer it has been sitting there.

Most dealers want vehicles in and out in 90 days or less, but let's be realistic it doesn't always work like that. If you can find a vehicle that has been on the lot for 5-8 months, your going to be able to get a much better deal. Believe me, there are are always vehicles that have been on the lot for a while. Nobody is perfect in what they buy. I have worked for 2 of the best used car managers in the city and even they are human and make mistakes that sit for half a year. Always make sure to give the brakes a very good test, rotors are proned to warp when the vehicle hasn't been driven for a while. Especially in our Canadian climate. You will hear a noise and possibly even feel a pulse in the brake pedal when this has happened.

Rule #3 - Don't buy in the summer. This is when used cars peak in price. Used cars come from the auction in most cases and the prices go up and down based on demand. When are the prices the lowest? December. I remember watching my manager cry in December at the prices the vehicles were selling for, because he had a lot full of vehicles he bought in October and November. You will pay 2000-3000 more for some vehicles in the Summer. There are many reasons for this, let's keep it simple and just say it's supply and demand.

Rule #4 - Don't even waste your time looking at a vehicle until you have seen a Vehicle History Report of some kind to make sure it is accident free. Some dealers will still cover accidents up, I have never seen it personally...but it happens. Look for different shades of the colour in different area's. Factory paint is even and the same shade 99.9% of the time, you can see when a panel has been re-sprayed. No matter how good the job was. Check the left side versus the right side for shape and appearance.

You also want to see the vehicle repair history to make sure that the maintenance was done at the proper intervals. Do you really want a vehicle with 150,000 km that has never had the transmission fluid or coolant changed? I know I wouldn't. Stay away from any vehicle that had electrical problems. Stay away from any vehicle that has had the same repair more than once, that's called a brand/model flaw. Your going to have to pay for it the next time.

Rule #5 - I can't stress this enough, USE THE INTERNET! You can check make and model reliability ratings online for free, so you have no excuse to buy a vehicle with a known issue that will just end up emptying your wallet in the future. In all honesty, stay away from Domestic vehicles. Their build quality has been horrible for the last 10 years. Unless you do your research and buy a Ford Focus, knowing full well that it is a Mazda 3 with a different body and interior. They share the same reliable engine and transmission. But that's just a personal opinion.

Rule 6 - While keeping Rule #2 in mind, there is often a lot of gross profit in used vehicles. The man in charge wouldn't buy it at the auction if he didn't think he could make money selling it. If it's fresh on the lot, it could have $3000 in gross profit. I have seen $5000 on a few. That's not an absolute rule though.

If you are dealing with a large high volume dealer such as Haldimand Motors, they buy low and sell low. But they sell 6000 vehicles a year, which blows anybody in this area away. So they are able to set their prices lower, to sell more overall units. If I was buying a used car, this would be where I would go. They might only make 500 bucks on the sale, but at least you are getting a good deal.

Price is everything. Sales people are paid to "Create the illusion of value" or as they call it build value in the brand. When the truth is the exact reverse.

Rule 7 - Used car warranties are a joke. Don't even look at them. You will never recoup your money. They often have deductables, limits to the dollar amount of each repair and in some cases they are allowed to repair your vehicle with used parts. I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with them calling a scrap yard for a part to fix my vehicle.

Please don't rust proof a used vehicle and please don't buy the paint protections on a used vehicle. It's used, if you care that much about the appearance, buy a new car.

Admin fees and Etching, don't pay them. You're not there to pay the staff, that's the owner's job. You're just there to buy a car, not pay to keep the building open. Etching, tell them to keep it. Again it's only on the vehicle because they are required to do it for their insurance company. Pass on it. If you like the program, call the company on the sticker up a week later and reactivate it at a fraction of the price.

Rule 8 - When you come to the dealership to pick up your used vehicle, your first job is to go over the vehicle. If there are any scratches, ask for them to be touched up. if you notice any dents, make arrangements to have them fixed. Inspect the interior for tears in the fabric, gouges in the trim, missing pieces. Have everything addressed before you sit down to look at the final paperwork. At this point, you still haven't bought the vehicle. You have just put a deposit on it and signed a preliminary bill of sale. You can walk away from the deal if they won't correct any issues. Don't fall for the old..."ahh well I'll tell you what, it's gonna cost $600 to do that...how about we split it 50/50?" Congrads, you have just agreed to think you paid $300 for a $600 repair. But you just paid for the full repair, oldest trick in the book. Seen it many times and sadly have to admit...I've been forced to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TRADE IN's

Well I guess first off, the dealership wants your trade. The salesperson dreads the word trade.

Why is that?

Well the salesperson knows that the customer is just trying to turn one car into another in the easiest way possible. It's really nice to hand over 1 set of keys and take another. Especially when the dealer does all the paperwork for you.

But Management is thinking, cool another chance for us to make more money on the exchange. This is a part of the transaction that the salesperson does and doesn't make money on. My first dealer paid me on gross profit, so I would profit on the trade. My 2nd dealership of course pocketed the money and I never got as much as a pat on the back when they made 2-3 grand on a trade.

Do your research and know what your vehicle is worth going in. Auto trader is perfect fot this. Just search your year, make model, trim level and a if you have 54,037km...search 50,000 to 60,000km. The best bet to see true selling value is to check Haldimand motors.

Then put that number into your calculator and times it by 0.6 or 0.7

That's about all they are going to offer you for your trade. Afterall dealerships don't do anything unless they can make money doing it. Greed makes them try to make as much as possible, it's human nature...at least to people in that industry.

My best advice on a trade...

#1 - Don't mention a trade. If they ask, say no. Don't say maybe....just say NO I'm going to sell it private. They will get all excited and move on to the next step, just laugh inside and go along with it

#2 - Go through the entire sales process and work out your final price including taxes and whatever fee's you have for some strange reason agreed to pay. Then, simply say...ok I would like to trade my car in now.

*What this prevents is the dealership "padding your trade number" The more variables in play, the more chances the dealer has to confuse you and simply change 2 numbers to make them look better to you.

At this point, you have negotiated a sale on a vehicle. Now it's time to negotiate your trade value. Treat this the same way, if you don't get what you want...walk away. Again there are 10 dealers selling the same car within 100km, the old 8 bucks of gas to save $500 rule applies here.

Plus you have the added upperhand of having a sale in hand, they aren't going to let you walk.

#3 - Private sale your vehicle, it's not that hard. Start trying to sell it when you start doing your research. Have your number in hand for the new vehicle and act on them when your vehicle sells.

*Only trade your vehicle in if there is something seriously wrong with it. They only drive the vehicle around the block at best, they aren't going to uncover any serious problems. Dishonest and unfair...maybe. Levelling the playing field...for sure.

Unless you are getting close to what you could private sale the vehicle for, why would you trade it in? I have seen people leave $5000 on the table overall in car deals many times, don't be one of those people.

#4 - Trading a GM in at a Ford dealer, you will get 500-1000 dollars less for the vehicle. They aren't going to put your vehicle on their lot, because they will have to sell it cheaper than the GM dealer down the road. In most cases they just wholesale the vehicle to a local used car dealer or send it to auction. You lose on this transaction, so don't trade a vehicle in at a dealership of another brand.

#5 - You only have to disclose accidents over $2000. That is the only thing you have to volunteer about the vehicle. Most dealers do a history report anyways, so just be up front about this.

You don't have to tell them about the service history, they can look these things up. You don't have to tell them if there is anything wrong with the vehicle! Telling them there is something wrong with the vehicle is like just putting money in their pocket. They are trained to appraise vehicles, don't do their job for them. If they miss something, you get more money.

If the motor or transmission blows 2 days after you trade it in, you aren't liable. Odds are they already have your vehicle sold to a wholesaler before you even drop it off and pick up your new one.

[bomb1977]

#1 - The trick is to set a time limit. Car salespeople will try to wear you down over time, it's like becoming friends with somebody. You eventually let your guard down over time. They don't like you, they just want your money. They are trained and paid to read you and identify with you.

When your 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 hour expire...get up and leave. If they couldn't accomplish what you wanted in the timelimit you told them about up front, they don't care enough about your business to listen to you.

#2 - The first phrase out of your mouth should be "I'm just looking"...say it with me...I'm Just looking

Look around, the salesperson will be staring you down like a hawk. They might even come over 17 or 18 times and ask you if you have any questions. Again revert back to "I'm just looking"

Extra Credit - If you are just doing preliminary work, have a little fun. Walk up to another salesperson and start asking them about the car. If they try to go and get the other salesperson, just say "No, that's ok...I would rather deal with you"

You will see the other salesman start to fume and run to the manager's office to bitch and compain about how the other guy stole his customer. It's amazing to watch. Car sales people are so territorial, yet they will stab each other in the back without hesitation and then bitch about it when it happens to them 2 hours later.

Moving on...

#3 - Selecting a vehicle. Be firm on what you want. If they don't have the vehicle, don't look at the sister vehicle that might be on the same platform and assume everything is the same. The same vehicle in a different colour is ok to look at and even to test drive. A different trim level, is not ok to test drive.

Different trim levels have different shock and strut packages, different rims, different tire sizes, some even add stability management items like strut bars or computer controlled components like traction control, anti-lock brakes that all effect the ride.

#4 - Woah, Woah buddy...slow down on that test drive talk.

First you need to sit down and look at the price, you want a detailed breakdown. Don't fall for "Here's the selling price and here's your payments over "x" months" You are missing out on about 4-5 key components when that happens. I will touch on this in the next post on Negotiating a deal.

*Never ever tell them how much you are willing to spend, how much you can afford. They will automatically stretch that number by 10% and try to "bump" you up into a new payment range.

If the payment is close to what you are looking to spend, if the final selling price is close to the amount you can afford. Then proceed to the test drive.

After the test drive, shake the salesperson's hand and leave. Just tell them you are going home to think about it. At this point, you should have only given the salesperson first names and no phone numbers! If you give a salesperson your phone number, you will be getting 10 calls in the next 2 weeks. If you tell them your last name and address, they will find your number and call you.

#5 - Now that you have their "selling price" which is no doubt at "full pop" you can now log onto the manufacturer's website and search all the dealerships within 50k,100km and contact all of the dealerships telling them you have recieved a quote on the vehicle with this option package with a payment (or selling price) of "xx,xxx.xx" and you are giving them a chance to earn your business.

*Set a date and time for them to submit their bids for your business via email or phone call. Also point out that they are on of several dealerships you are contacting and that you will be going with the most economical price. Then when you have all of your quotes in, you will find that there might be a $1500 or more variance (or more) in price.

#6 - You now have the lowest quote on the make, model, year and trim package you are looking for. Congrads, you are now getting a good deal. If you want a better deal, keep reading...

Go back to the dealer you visited and test drove at and show them the lowest quote. Go directly to the manager if possible to cut down on time and simply say " this is what dealership B has quoted me, what are you willing to do to earn my business?"

If you didn't like Dealership A, skip straight through to Dealership B that gave you the best quote.

Make sure the vehicle matches exactly the one you requested the quote on, go over the numbers to make sure they are being up front with you. If there is an extra option on the vehicle that is a couple hundred bucks, don't sweat it. It's not worth picking a fight over a few hundred, they only make maybe 30 bucks on that. They might even throw it in to get you to sign the deal.

#7 - If you are happy at this point, move on to the negotiating post (still working on it as of April 20th 2010, should be up in a day or so)

If you really aren't in need of a vehicle in the next 2-3 days, try this advanced technique. Thank them for their time and take all of the information numbers and all home with you. Just simply say that you will be making your decision in the next week or so and you just need some time to talk it over and make sure it's the right decision for you.

Haha yeah right, your going to email back Dealership A,C,D,E,F and G with the quote and simply say this was the best offer. Can you do any better than this, or should I just buy the vehicle from them?

Sales people are on commission, they aren't going to let a sale go if there is any money left in the deal. They get a minimum called a "flat" which is the minimum amount of money they can make on a deal. Management can discount a vehicle as far as they want to make a sale.

When Dealership B calls (and they will) just say that you are still looking over things and you are getting closer to making a decision but you are concerned about getting the best deal. They may at this point invite you back to see if there's anything else they can do for you. This is the time to strike.

At this point you might have them down to a $100 profit (plus holdback, plus unit kickers, plus annual bonuses) and you might only get a couple of free oil changes extra, but anything is something.

Congrads, you are 1 person in 100 that beat the system. Don't feel sorry for the dealer made $1500 plus on the other 99 people, they will survive

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Negotiating

#1 - The salesperson will always want to be in control.

- They will direct you to their office or cubicle by just saying something simple and turning around and walking to their office. People follow by nature, once your in the office...that's part 1 of the game. They say you can't close somebody when they aren't sitting in your office. Funny thing was I have closed people on the test drive, sitting in the service seating area and sitting on a chair out in the showroom.

- They will demand information. Name, address, phone number, information on your current vehicle and worst of all...your current payment. Again most people just volunteer everything. By volunteering your current payment and terms, you are pretty much telling them you are comfortable with that payment. Get ready to be bumped up higher. The general rule is to try and stretch people by 10%

- When you are at a stalemate, you will get the...I have to go to my manager for some reason or another. This is just to introduce a break into the negotiation process, odds are the issue is solved in 30 seconds. But they will sit in the office for atleast 5 minutes. The thought is to leave you in there with your wife/husband to sweat things out, most people get very nervous during this period of buying a vehicle.

The solution...ask for a salesperson that has the ability to complete the entire process without leaving the office/cubicle. If they have to get up and walk out of the office/cubicle, then so should you. This will keep the games to a minimum. The only reason a salesperson should have to leave is because they aren't allowed to sell a vehicle at that low of a price and needs a manager to OK the deal. Any other reason and you are being manipulated, or dealing with an inexperienced salesperson. You could also be at a dealership where they don't trust their employees to "work" their own numbers. If they don't trust their own employees, why should you?

#2 - Watch the numbers

- You really shouldn't be focused on a monthly or biweekly payment or even the term. You should be focused on the price of the vehicle, the price of the added options and all of the fee's associated with buying the vehicle. You should be asking for a detailed breakdown. You should also ask to see the "program" sheet to verify that you are getting the proper manufacturer's rebate and not getting half the rebate and having the other half applied to your trade in, to make the numbers look better to you.

Afterall you are buying the vehicle from the dealership, you haven't even asked them to finance it for you. Why wouldn't you take the final number with taxes to your bank and ask them to match the rate or beat it. Most banks that you have established a relationship with will match rates.

- Dealerships and salespeople make money when you finance a vehicle through them. Again going back to the eternal theme, dealerships don't do anything unless they make money doing it.

#3 - Everything on the bill of sale can be negotiated. The vehicle base price, the price of individual options, the admin fee (BS), the registration fee (BS) and any other add-on's that the dealer adds to their program. Again...like a broken record. They don't offer you anything that the lose money on, only the things they make a profit on.

Sometimes a good last minute technique after you have negotiated your way down to suggest that you are ready to put a deposit on the vehicle if they agree to waive all of the fee's. It's worth a shot.

#4 - If they offer to split the difference, there is still room to work with. Keep negotiating. If you offer $2000 less and you get the song and dance that they can only move $300-$400 then you are getting close. There is still a good $300-$400 to go.

Generally a short quick explanation means...hehe I have more room sucker. And a big drawn out explanation with an attempt to build value, is closer to the truth.

Really I don't see any reason why you can't ask to see the computer screen in the managers office to know the gross profit on the deal. I worked with a experienced guy in the office next to me that would do it. He would just say hey we're only making 300 bucks or whatever the number it was and the people would just buy the vehicle.

#5 - A dealer selling a vehicle at cost, or at a loss...really isn't losing money. So don't be afraid to ask for a bigger discount!

Every vehicle that the dealer puts on his lot has a Selling Price and an Invoice Price. The invoice price is that they have to pay the manufacturer for the vehicle, minus the holdback. So when they do the "we're not making any money on this sale" they are full of ****, even if they show you the invoice. I have seen fake invoices whipped up in 30 seconds again by the guy in the office next to me, he could do it up on no time and have it printing within half a minute.

The dealer has a holdback on every vehicle. The smallest one I ever saw was $500, it was all based on the vehicle. You can almost count on it being $700 or more. I am sure it varries by manufacturer.

Dealers also get monthly, possibly quarterly and annual bonuses from the manufacturer based on how many units the sell.

So by selling you a vehicle "at cost" a dealer can still make well over $1000 on the sale. Again if they weren't making money, they wouldn't sell it.

[KrisKros]

AWESOME tips..reps for this guy. He's going to save us lots of bucks when buying our chick mobiles.

[bomb1977]

Ok from a price standpoint, the summer is the best time to buy a new vehicle. That seems to be when the "programs" or discounts seem to be the highest. Also this is when everybody gets competive with interest rates.

Used cars...December/January. Used car prices bottom out at the auction in December typically. So this means than the vehicles hitting the lot will be cheaper. Also due to everybody else buying at December prices, they will be forced to lower prices on the other vehicles on the lot. Or they can be stupid and stubborn and let them sit there. I have seem both ways of doing things. Not to mention that in December and January, sales people are pacing the showroom and waiting for people to come in. It's dead, so they are going to want to sell.

A few good tips for new cars...

#1 - Try to find out when the cutoff, the absolute last day is to factory order a vehicle. Typically if you order on this day, you stand a very good chance of not having your car produced. The solution to this is to have your 2010 factory order replaced with one of the first 2011's to roll off the assembly line.

I did this for my father in law, he factory ordered a 2009 vehicle and recieved a 2010 instead

#2 - Find out if the manufacturer will price protect you for the month that you buy the vehicle. Example if you buy in June but don't recieve the vehicle till July would you still get June pricing?

If they do, you want to sign the deal on the last day (or two) of the month to have it dated in that month. If the rebates change for the better for the next month, you will save additional money. If the rebates get worse, you are still locked in at the previous months numbers.

This has no effect on the dealer, so they should be willing to help you out here. They wouldn't make money by screwing you over here, so they won't.

-----------------------------------

Well quite simply put, you don't want to buy a demo because it's a used car that they are trying to pass off as a new vehicle.

Bigger dealerships will have Demo vehicles for the owners, managers, staff members...hell I have even seen them feed their entire family with demo's.

The bottom line is that they are used cars. If I am buying a new car, it damn well better have less than 100...maybe 200 km on it.

Dealerships use demo's as a write off. They are allowed to claim a demo as a depreciating asset. The salesperson also uses the vehicle as a taxable benefit. Remember dealerships don't do anything if they don't make money from it. The exact amount they are allowed to write off per month per vehicle, I really don't know. I have heard estimates that are in the $400-$500 per month range.

So if the dealer has had a demo "in service" for 8 months, then they have been able to claim $3200-$4000 against it's value. It's funny that they still try to charge full price.

Typically the freight (normally in the 1500 range) gets waived on a Demo, which when you consider the 3-4 thousand in tax benefits the dealer recieved...your getting ripped off.

Demo's are well maintained by the dealer, they service them very well and they take them off the road at set intervals. The problem, salespeople beat the crap out of demo's, not all...but most do. They aren't their personal vehicles and the vehicle isn't their responsibilty, so why would they care. Every vehicle I drove, I pushed to the limit...no exceptions. I drive hard, that's who I am. I remember taking new vehicles on gas runs with fellow sales people and having burnout contests.

You are also getting a vehicle with 8,000, 12,000, 14,000 whatever the dealer's policy is that is a used vehicle, but you are losing that much of your warranty. Not a big deal with most imports, but if you are still buying domestic...your going to need that full warranty.

So not only is the dealer claiming and writing off the wear and tear on the vehicle, they are using up your warranty.

In my opinion all demo's should be discounted $400-$500 per month that they were in service, both to compensate for wear and tear and to make up for the portion of the warranty what was used up. Actually warranties on a demo should start at the km that you drive the vehicle off the lot, good luck convincing them of that. You should also not have to pay any freight or any dealership fee's on the transaction. After all it's a used car.

Cars depreciate the most in the 1st year, why would you pay new car prices for a 1 year old car. In all reality, the vehicle has already depreciated 25% by the time you even show up to look at it.

I just flat out wouldn't buy a Demo, the current system is flawed and causes the consumer only to lose worse than they would if they were buying a new vehicle.

If the dealer wants to provide themselves, their families and their staff with vehicles...Let them figure out a way to sell them. Maybe they need to experience the whole trade in experience that they put everyone through. Maybe they just need to send the vehicles off to the auction and take into account the depreciation they have written off on the vehicle already and call it a day.

-------------------------------------

1st off, don't feel bad. They are plotting and scheming the entire time they are talking to you on how they can make the most money possible.

#1 - Park your car right in the actual compound, block several cars in or just pull it into the rmpty space between some of their vehicles. If the owner is anal retentive he will blast the salesperson for letting you park there

#2 - Get out, walk around and if anybody walks up to you just say "Just Looking" only say those 2 words. They will come to you many times, they will have so many lines...just keep saying "Just Looking" and keep walking.

#3 - a) First visit, never bring your significant other and never bring your kids. This will give you the prefect out...My wife needs to see it, are you crazy...I'm in the doghouse if I buy it without her.

b) Make an appointment to bring your wife back, but stand the salesperson up atleast twice. They will be standing there waiting for you, they might even take themselves out of the rotation to wait for you. They will be calling you every name in the book, but they will hop on the phone to invite you back when they are done badmouthing you.

c) Bring the wife in, test drive the vehicle and leave. Don't go inside. Hand them back the keys and walk back to your vehicle. Say this to anything they say " Need sometime to think about it"

d) Finally after letting their 5th call go to voice mail, call the dealership and ask to speak to the manager. Ask for a new salesperson because that guy is just calling you too often and your wife just didn't like him. Set up an appointment with a new salesperson to being the family up for a test drive, with the car seats and all.

e) After no-showing 1 or 2 times, go up for the family test drive. Same deal, drive and fly...Gotta think about it. Use the kids as an excuse, one is tired and needs a nap etc...

ok, I invented #3...but it seems like fun

#4 - When the salesperson leaves the office (which they shouldn't have to do), you leave the office. Make a game of it, find a new area of the building or lot to be in when they come to look for you.

#5 - Make them get you a coffee every 20 minutes, they aren't going to deny you. After 2-3 coffee's go for a bathroom break, but don't come back. If you made the mistake of giving them your real name and real number, just use a fmaily emergency as an excuse. They aren't going to ask for a doctor's note.

#6 - Fake name, Fake address, Fake phone number...I had a 60 year old couple do this to me, I almost fell over from laughing so hard when I found out I was punked by 2 old people

#7 - Name, Address, Phone number of somebody you don't like. Hey...kill 2 birds with 2 stone. Be creative.

#8 - Set really short time limits for your visits. Just say I'm on my lunch break, I am between appointments and I only have 15-20 minutes. You want to see a salesperson flustered, watch them try to jam an hour of stuff into 20 minutes.

#9 - Play the old...we don't know what we want routine. Make the salesperson give you demo's on every vehicle, always reference back to a previous vehicle and walk back to it to ask a question. This one is a classic...

#10 - Ask a lot of stupid questions, follow up their answer by saying...oh that was a stupid question, I should have known that...you wanna see a salesperson go into suck up mode, this is how. "Oh no your not a complete idiot Mr& Mrs Dumb****, it's understandable that you thought this car didn't have any front windows because they were rolled down" wait for the idiot salesman to tell you a story about how it hapened to them too

#11 - If you have a really fat salesperson ask to test drive 3-4 different vehicles, keep saying you are in a hurry and watch them run across the lot to pull the vehicle over. Test drive it, ask to drive another....keep going until he stops you. Then thank him for the rides and leave. I have seen 4 test drives before the manager stepped in...go for 5, break the record!

#12 - When you buy a vehicle somewhere else. If you didn't like a salesperson at one of the other dealerships for any reason, call them up and let the manager know you didn't buy because of the salesperson.

#13 - Insist on test driving the vehicle directly in the middle of the show room, or the one that looks the most difficult to get to. They will move 4-5 cars out of the way to get it out, sit back and watch the show. If you want to be evil, say "Oh I really don't like that colour out in the sunlight, it looked so much better in the showroom...that's going to be a problem"

#14 - When you are in servicing your vehicle,don't mention you are in service and go through the entire process with another salesperson, just to see if you like them better. When your name gets called, say "oh my car is ready, I gotta go"

#15 - Sit in every vehicle in the showroom, play with all the buttons and honk the horns to try and make people jump. I have been burned by this one a few times. It's funny. After you honk the horn on 2-3 vehicles somebody will come up to you, just say "do you guys use the same horns on all of your vehicles? They sound the same to me" then go back into "Just Looking"

#16 - Try to bring a drink with you during test drives, try to make the spill look like an accident though. Bonus points if you can manage to eat food during the test drive.

#17 - When on a test drive, accelerate hard once or twice and do threshold braking tests without warning the salesperson. Just comment on the pick up being good, bad and comment on the brakes being good/bad. They will let it go. Try some hard cornering, you can even go through red light camera's at will. Your on their dealer plate, the fine goes to the registered owner of the plate because the picture can't verify the driver.

#18 - Go on a long test drive, take the vehicle home. This gets the salesperson excited, they think you are taking it home for approval. Just tell them to stay in the vehicle, go in side for 10-15 min or until they knock on the door.

#19 - If you are test driving a 4x4 or All Wheel Drive vehicle, take it offroading. Find some dirt or gravel roads and test that bad boy out. Your on their plate and their insurance...Yes the only thing you are on the hook for are moving violations that you are pulled over for Oops did I say that out loud...

#20 - Ask for a tour of the dealership, again the salesperson is going to get all excited. Then question the size of one of the departments and leave

[SirBush]

Without going into huge detail, what are some way the internet can help me get a better deal. Where you said "even the best dealership is no match for an internet savvy person" I didn't read much past that because I wanted to ask this question. Seems like an obvious answer question but maybe you can elaborate on some things the internet can do that we wouldnt think of right away.

Thanks

[triceptive]

Repped. Thanks for the great information. I purchased a 2010 Acura MDX last month and I pretty much used the same type of tactics. I never stepped in the dealership, I did all my dealing over the Internet. I walked in the dealership with a set price that we agreed over the Internet and bought the car. I got the MDX Tech Package for $46,500 OUT THE DOOR! It was $1000 below dealer invoice. It was almost $6000 below MSRP sticker.

[PushTheWeak]

meh..ive sold cars for 4-5 years...but some good info..if you need some other questions..ill try and help out too.

if you want a real good deal..ask for the xplan lol. i always hated when a customer asked me that cause i couldnt rip em off.

always take an ad price from the newspaper even though those all are all LOSS LEADERS. and say the competition can get that low and go from there.

[bomb1977]

meh..ive sold cars for 4-5 years...but some good info..if you need some other questions..ill try and help out too.

if you want a real good deal..ask for the xplan lol. i always hated when a customer asked me that cause i couldnt rip em off.

always take an ad price from the newspaper even though those all are all LOSS LEADERS. and say the competition can get that low and go from there.

Haha yeah I hated those ad's. I live about 45 min outside of Toronto and Toronto dealers would always advertise in our hometown paper, not to mention the 3-4 major toronto papers were readily available at any store.

The ad's were often just Bait & Switch (luring them in with a 5 speed base price and only having mid line and high end automatics on your lot) but there were a few ad's where it was clear they ordered in 50 of 1 car and were just selling them to make the dealer holdback and to get to a 200-300 car a month manufacturer bonus level

My owner (well owner's son) was a douche, he wouldn't get involved in any of that. Haha and he wouldn't order anything but Red, Silver and Black

I did well for an honest car salesman, I was able to pay my bills and live well. But I have made a lot more money in other types of sales...

[slowdubbin68]

what dealers did you work at, im from hamilton

[bomb1977]

what dealers did you work at, im from hamilton

Haha I really can't get into that. There is a reason why I haven't had this published in the paper. I don't want anybody coming after me.

Naming the dealers I worked for wouldn't be a good idea. The 1st dealer I worked for no longer exists, I sold new cars for them and they were one of the contracted GM dealerships. The second dealer is still active, although I hope they go out of business soon!

Going to knock on the owner's son's front door, assuming he doesn't lose his house too and laugh in his face

[paradoxman]

Repped, Great tips. You should put these on a website. I'll even give you the hosting for free for the site.

[nick_]

subd

[bomb1977]

Haha I should apply for a sticky

[bomb1977]

Bump! #1

[84Fox]

What about the A plan, X plan etc...

Can they move on those prices at all and are they really the dealer cost or ?????