Why do people say "eat real food. not shakes"?

[tfpriest]

Just out of curiosity..

When did protein shakes become fake food? If you are not hungry for "whole food" or can tolerate the hunger (which, I dont have any even when im eating low calories and drinking shakes)..why not use them? Several times a day even? Its a higher quality protein then animal protein, and contains no saturated fats or carbs and has several other desirable health effects and are insanely convenient...and if your getting your good fats from fish/olive oil/peanut butter, ect..and your getting fiber through some method..why not opt for the highest quality protein you can get?

Guess it just irritates me to read through diet threads and people telling people to throw out their shakes in favor of lower quality proteins or other substitutes. Not to mention for the people who don't carry a gallon jug of water its a good way to get an extra 20-30 oz of water ingested.

That's all.

[-TC-]

doesnt fill you up, but i agree

[watertoy]

My opinion would be the sugar and sweetner in it. Also whether it is natural for society to swipe the high protein part of milk barrell to get the whey protein.

Whey protein varies in quality.

I drink raw whipped eggs myself and enjoy the feeling.

[jcosley]

Because food has a "thermic" effect on the body...which liquid meals do not even come close too producing while digesting.

Taken from wiki ....sums up the idea what I'm getting at.

Thermic effect of food (also commonly known simply as thermic effect when the context is known), or TEF in shorthand, is the increment in energy expenditure above resting metabolic rate due to the cost of processing food for storage and use.1 It is one of the components of metabolism along with the resting metabolic rate, and the exercise component. Another term commonly used to describe this component of total metabolism is the specific dynamic action (SDA). A common number used to estimate the magnitude of the thermic effect of food is about 10% of the caloric intake of a given time period, though the effect varies substantially for different food components. Dietary fat is very easy to process and has very little thermic effect, while protein is hard to process and has a much larger thermic effect.2

Raw celery and grapefruit are often claimed to have negative caloric balance (requiring they take more energy to digest than usable energy received from the food), presumably because the thermic effect is greater than the caloric content, due to the high fiber matrix that must be unraveled to access their carbohydrates, however there has been no research carried out to test this theory.

The thermic effect of food is increased by both aerobic training of sufficient duration and intensity and by anaerobic weight training. However, the increase is marginal, amounting to 7-8 cal per hour.1 The primary determinants of daily TEF are the quantity and composition of the food ingested.

[senor_mortgage]

Whole foods also have a myriad of vitamins and minerals (many of which we have limited knowledge of still) that can't simply be replicated by whey. Sometimes it not just about grams of carbs/protein/fat. Not that whey is bad (few people here don't use it), but many people who think they'll drink their way to health will quickly burn in flames with hunger and lack of satisfaction.

[ejthomp]

I'll bite:

Are you going to live on protein shakes for the rest of your life?

Why not eat chicken breasts for every meal? Why not eat sirloin steak for every meal?

It's all about balance. When you eat too much of any one thing, you know it is just a matter of time before the diet is thrown out the window.

And when it is thrown out the window, what is there to fall back on other than old eating habits?

The idea has to be to change a lifestyle to something that can be permanent, not a temporary garbage diet to drop a few pounds only to gain it all back plus more when motivation falters..

[csb5731]

Nutritionally, I see nothing wrong with them.

If I'm eating 1200-1600 kcals/day, though, I'd simply much rather eat chicken/eggs/fish. Because they actually do something to satisfy my hunger. I've intentionally not stocked any whey this time cutting because I found myself relying on it as a quick and easy meal, then an hour later I was starving again and regretted not having cooked/packed something more satisfying.

But if you aren't having hunger issues, it's fine and generally cheaper than eggs/lean flesh.

Where I see the recommendations for solid food most, are when somebody posts a PROSPECTIVE plan, with like three or more doses of shakes per day, and asks "Is this a good cutting diet?". Or someone with a similiar diet complaining about hunger. I think to myself, I'd be hungry as hell with only a couple small solid meals a day.

I also think that one of the big benefits of eating proportionally lots of lean meat protein in a cutting diet it's increased thermic effect, and that's something that will be diminished with a predominantly liquid diet. But that's admittedly a minor concern.

In my experience, the biggest contributor to success is compliance, and compliance is at it's best when you are not trying to fall asleep starving.

[HYDRAE]

there is nothing wrong with protein shakes. I have one every morning.

however, they are a hyper processed industrial byproduct of the modern era. They are an editable food-like substance that happens to be incredibly handy to meet your daily protein requirements.

As Micheal Pollen says, if your great grand mother wouldn't have recognized it as food, it isn't. So while I agree that there is nothing wrong with them, I do not classify it as real food.

[tfpriest]

So...

two responses.

What makes food any more thermic or less thermic depending on its consistency? If I blend animal protein into a liquid, it suddenly isnt thermic? Is that thermic effect really create a dramatic difference in the "big picture"?

and b)

Most people who are getting criticized in their diet have several other whole food items, its almost never an issue of lack of foods for thermic value or a diet consisting of 100% shakes (although some blokes do post diets like that).

I guess my thought is, if science has isolated a way to give us the highest quality nutrition, lets take advantage of it, as much as possible!

[dejan_85]

Well its the actualy consistency of the food that makes it thermic. The more of a solid it is, the more of a natural state it is, the harder it is to digest. For example you would use 40 calories to break down an 8oz chicken breast, while maybe only 3 - 5 calories to break down a protein shake = Speeds up your metabolism, burn more calories.

Its definitely not wrong to use shakes, but for someone who is cutting, trying to lose BF, one of their goals is to speed their metabolism up, and thats where whole foods are supperior to drinks/shakes.

[csb5731]

What I see is that a lot of people are under the misconception that they actually have to take whey or whatever supplemental protein powder now that they are weight training. Some (and I'm being serious) don't even seem to be aware that protein can be found outside of protein powder/bars. If they don't take their "25 grams of the most bioavailable peptide fractions modern technology can provide" within 1 hr pre-/post- workout they think that their workout will count for not. If they don't get the benefit of their specially-formulated slow-digesting casein blend at bedtime they'll wake up with smaller arms. And a lot of people proceed into a cut with this mentality - the shakes are the last things they'd cut out, even if they do little to satisfy hunger.

Doesn't sound like you have much of an issue with hunger during a cut, but a lot of us really do. If shakes satisfied my hunger the same as chicken, eggs, and fish, I'd use them a lot more. Bulk whey is actually cheaper than most of the animal sources I rely on.

[NorthTexasBB]

I'll bite:

Are you going to live on protein shakes for the rest of your life?

Why not eat chicken breasts for every meal? Why not eat sirloin steak for every meal?

1. Why not? its a quality staple in anyones diet/lifestyle. Although not totally rely on them, having 1-2 a day is a easy and very possible and cheap solution to "real food"


2. Eating chicken and steak every meal can be expensive

[NorthTexasBB]

Well its the actualy consistency of the food that makes it thermic. The more of a solid it is, the more of a natural state it is, the harder it is to digest. For example you would use 40 calories to break down an 8oz chicken breast, while maybe only 3 - 5 calories to break down a protein shake = Speeds up your metabolism, burn more calories.

Its definitely not wrong to use shakes, but for someone who is cutting, trying to lose BF, one of their goals is to speed their metabolism up, and thats where whole foods are supperior to drinks/shakes.

do you have a source for this broscience. You do realize we do not swallow our foods whole, but itdeed break it down into a part liquid form when we chew it up and swallow it.

[Backus24]

Well its the actualy consistency of the food that makes it thermic. The more of a solid it is, the more of a natural state it is, the harder it is to digest. For example you would use 40 calories to break down an 8oz chicken breast, while maybe only 3 - 5 calories to break down a protein shake = Speeds up your metabolism, burn more calories.

Its definitely not wrong to use shakes, but for someone who is cutting, trying to lose BF, one of their goals is to speed their metabolism up, and thats where whole foods are supperior to drinks/shakes.

The broscience is strong in this one.

[Clamz]

the guy who mentioned overall nutrition is the only point that makes sense. Thermic effect? so eat whole foods so you can burn 20 more calories? Protein shakes are fine while cutting and a good way of getting protein quick and without other macros that you might not want while cutting. I think most people who say "eat real food" are just parroting what they've read before.

[ejthomp]

1. Why not? its a quality staple in anyones diet/lifestyle. Although not totally rely on them, having 1-2 a day is a easy and very possible and cheap solution to "real food"


2. Eating chicken and steak every meal can be expensive

Hey...you're changing the game... 1-2 per day... I can live with that and I agree. I have at least one a day as a SUPPLEMENT!!!!! On those days when I'm out and about, I have another as a meal substitute rather than eat some roadside crap. We're talking about those guys that have 3-4 per day plus other supplements...and avoid real food because they say their "picky" when in fact they just have developed a strong taste for crap food and don't want to address the real issue.

Protein shakes aren't REAL FOOD. They are drinks. They don't satisfy most people's urge for FOOD and variety. They are temporary.

I can appreciate the expensive part....but for most people it all is about priorities. Do you want that new cell phone? Do you want those rims for your car? Many of the guys living on protein shakes are choosing to do so because it is easy....and it doesn't last.....they have their cheat days, weeks, months...and don't accept that the urge to cheat is because they aren't eating enough GOOD FOOD.

[csb5731]

Hey...you're changing the game... 1-2 per day... I can live with that and I agree. I have at least one a day as a SUPPLEMENT!!!!! On those days when I'm out and about, I have another as a meal substitute rather than eat some roadside crap. We're talking about those guys that have 3-4 per day plus other supplements...and avoid real food because they say their "picky" when in fact they just have developed a strong taste for crap food and don't want to address the real issue.

Exactly.

We all have different definitions of "Broscience.". To me the average Broscientist is the one who thinks he needs 4 protein shakes a day and typically has a 14-supplement long stack listed in his sig, which somehow is indicative of his dedication level.

Here's the deal: When some 60-lb overweight guy comes in, wants input on his prospective diet, which happens to include four frigging shakes. Now, maybe I'm prejudice, but I tend to make some assumptions.

Assumption 1: He has an appetite. He is, after all, 60 lbs overweight. Going to an 1800 kcal diet is going to be hard enough as it is without drinking half his calories.

Assumption 2: He could very well have willpower issues when it comes to food choices (same reason as for assumption #1). I don't think it takes a rocket scientist or one of you self-appointed Bro-fighters to figure out that when people are hungry, they are much more likely to break rank and cheat. I know for a goddamn fact that I am. Best to keep him as satiated as possible

Now, it's entirely possibly that the guy has iron willpower in regards to food selection, and the appetite of a coked-out Kate Moss. But then I really have to wonder how he got fat in the first place.

[KingOfChaos]

Just out of curiosity..

When did protein shakes become fake food? If you are not hungry for "whole food" or can tolerate the hunger (which, I dont have any even when im eating low calories and drinking shakes)..why not use them? Several times a day even? Its a higher quality protein then animal protein, and contains no saturated fats or carbs and has several other desirable health effects and are insanely convenient...and if your getting your good fats from fish/olive oil/peanut butter, ect..and your getting fiber through some method..why not opt for the highest quality protein you can get?

Guess it just irritates me to read through diet threads and people telling people to throw out their shakes in favor of lower quality proteins or other substitutes. Not to mention for the people who don't carry a gallon jug of water its a good way to get an extra 20-30 oz of water ingested.

That's all.

Don't know about you, but I eat real food and shakes. Most bodybuilders do, after all.

[jimsmith9999]

Just out of curiosity..

When did protein shakes become fake food?

Because Protein shakes are supplements, not food.

Its a higher quality protein then animal protein,

Source?

and contains no saturated fats or carbs

A chicken breast contains contains very little saturated fat if you are concerned about that (probably lower than what you find in protein powder, but neither amount is worth talking about).

Regarding carbs, there is nothing wrong with them, if you think that the difference in carbohydrate amounts found between meat and protein powder is going to make or break you physique (or even make a noticeable difference), you are wrong.

and has several other desirable health effects

What are these desirable health effects that you get from protein powder do not get from meat protein sources?

and are insanely convenient...

Very true, and generally cheaper.

and if your getting your good fats from fish/olive oil/peanut butter, ect..and your getting fiber through some method..why not opt for the highest quality protein you can get?

Iron, folic acid, a vitamins, minerals and other nutrients that you will be likely be deficient in if you do not take great care to balance out with the rest of your diet (and no - taking a multi isn't good enough).

Again, what makes you think that the quality of protein in powder is better than that found in natural sources?

[cheeseandrice]

i say it because protein shakes arent filling at all

but i understand the need for them to meet macro's, or just if you are craving a shake

but yeah. actual solid filling food > liquid protein

[smckdwn989]

i look at it from the perspective that calories are calories.

for me, my lunch is simple, 2 scoops of muscle milks, carb countdown milk (2 cups) and half of a protein bar.

it ends up approaching 560 calories, 47 grams of protein a good blend of fats including MCT's. and it fills me up so it works for me. Am i advocating protein shakes as your primary diet? No, but I see nothing wrong with them.

[TVRYAN]

1. Why not? its a quality staple in anyones diet/lifestyle. Although not totally rely on them, having 1-2 a day is a easy and very possible and cheap solution to "real food"


2. Eating chicken and steak every meal can be expensive

I have to disagree a little bit with steak being too expensive, especially if you cut out junk food such as chips and all that. One of those bags of chips can average around 3-4 dollars for a big bag and a lot of people can go through a bag in one sitting.

When steak is on sale, I usually get the top round london broil for 1.69/pd. I can get about 3 pounds for 5 bucks. That's good for 6 meals if you eat 7-8 oz each time. IMO that's not bad at all for 5 dollars. 6 meals for a half hour working at an average retail job is a steal.

Just my 2 cents.

[JaySinX]

I think the issue is when ppl post diets with 3-4 shakes and the other meals are "1/2 pear and soup" or " 3 egg whites and celery", which makes the likelihood of staying on track very low. I recently started on 2-3 shakes a day to supplement the foods i eat and I haven't felt any crazy hunger, granted its been a week but still if you're using it as a supp and not a primary source it should be ok

[NorthTexasBB]

Hey...you're changing the game... 1-2 per day... I can live with that and I agree. I have at least one a day as a SUPPLEMENT!!!!! On those days when I'm out and about, I have another as a meal substitute rather than eat some roadside crap. We're talking about those guys that have 3-4 per day plus other supplements...and avoid real food because they say their "picky" when in fact they just have developed a strong taste for crap food and don't want to address the real issue.

Protein shakes aren't REAL FOOD. They are drinks. They don't satisfy most people's urge for FOOD and variety. They are temporary.

I can appreciate the expensive part....but for most people it all is about priorities. Do you want that new cell phone? Do you want those rims for your car? Many of the guys living on protein shakes are choosing to do so because it is easy....and it doesn't last.....they have their cheat days, weeks, months...and don't accept that the urge to cheat is because they aren't eating enough GOOD FOOD.

I agree completely, I choose to have 1-2 a day because it really is cheaper and last longer then buying actual snacks in between real meals. I can attest to eating actual food helps you avoid cheating as I havent had a cheat day in over 3 weeks so far and dont really feel the need to at the moment.

[NorthTexasBB]

I have to disagree a little bit with steak being too expensive, especially if you cut out junk food such as chips and all that. One of those bags of chips can average around 3-4 dollars for a big bag and a lot of people can go through a bag in one sitting.

When steak is on sale, I usually get the top round london broil for 1.69/pd. I can get about 3 pounds for 5 bucks. That's good for 6 meals if you eat 7-8 oz each time. IMO that's not bad at all for 5 dollars. 6 meals for a half hour working at an average retail job is a steal.

Just my 2 cents.

Depends on the person, Im a college student that has a 50$ weekly budget...so I have to be picky on what I can and cannot buy. Sometimes I can get away with steak deals but usually chicken, pork and turkey deli meat are a staple in my current diet.

Speaking of chips I actually have a bag of cheetos jalapeño flavor in my cabinet that hasnt been opened and been sitting there for almost a month.

[jay24k]

i look at it from the perspective that calories are calories.

for me, my lunch is simple, 2 scoops of muscle milks, carb countdown milk (2 cups) and half of a protein bar.

it ends up approaching 560 calories, 47 grams of protein a good blend of fats including MCT's. and it fills me up so it works for me. Am i advocating protein shakes as your primary diet? No, but I see nothing wrong with them.

Well it might be fine for you, you cannot tell me that is more filling then over 1 pound of chicken breast which contains 120 grams of protein.

For most people cutting on a diet, it is a bit difficult to not be hungry. I can't even fathom wasting 600 calories on a shake. For me, 200 is fine if I'm in a hurry or need to meet macros or my before bed shake.