Continue adding mass OR lose the belly fat?

[rhino1964]

I've been making steady gains in mass overall, but I still have ugly belly fat I hope to lose someday. One guy who is a fairly advanced bodybuilder suggested I continue to add mass and then sometime later down the road start cutting and get rid of the bellyfat. He says, "When you have more muscle mass, it becomes easier to burn bodyfat."

Do you agree with this general assessment, or do you have a different opinion? People are asking me if I'm losing weight, and I'm not, but the little extra size on my shoulders and upper back is making my gut look smaller to some (not to me, though, it still looks monstrous). I'm somewhat inclined to just keep adding mass for another year, and then maybe start cutting next Spring, but I still don't like this gut (I've named it my "mid-life crisis").

As far as workout programs go, I'm doing a typical push/pull split, day one--chest/shoulders/triceps, day two--legs/calves, day three--back/biceps, day four--rest. Sometimes I'll take an extra day off if I'm not well recovered. As far as diet goes, I'm eating as much as I can of clean foods, such as egg whites, whole grains, chicken breast, turkey breast, skim milk, lowfat cottage cheese, lean ground beef, etc. Supplements: BCAAs, creatine, Gaspari SuperPump 250, multivitamin/mineral, glucosamine. I do 20-30 minutes of cardio 3x per week (mostly to keep my hypertension under control, which is doing really well these days).

[rhino1964]

Awaiting the collective wisdom of this august community....

[KarateChris]

The more muscle you have the higher your BMR will be, so yes, it is easier to lose fat when you have more muscle mass, but that shouldn't mean that if you're of a high bf% you should just keep putting on weight and upping your cals.

The most important indicator IMO of whether or not to cut is what BF are you currently at?

[rhino1964]

Yes, I need to find out my bodyfat %. At what point do you think one should begin to get cut?

[KarateChris]

Yes, I need to find out my bodyfat %. At what point do you think one should begin to get cut?

Well, I'm personally more endomorphic than ectomorphic, so my body's normal bf% is higher than say someone who's really tall and lean all their life. I tend to allow myself a higher bf% in the offseason than I would if I was ectomorphic just because I feel my body grows better at that specific bf%. So for me, anywhere from 13-16% bodyfat is about right in the offseason when I'm bulking. Anything above and it's time to cut. If you're more endomorphic like myself, I'd say once you get over 16% bodyfat, it's time to cut. I usually cut down to about 8-10% over the summer (currently doing so), to "prime" myself for my bulk in the winter.

Get your bodyfat tested by calipers (someone who knows wtf they're doing and is not going to be generous with the skin folds) or DEXA (do not do the electric bodyfat scales.. they suck) and decide from there. If you don't know anyone who tests bodyfat, then just be honest with yourself. Can you see your abs? If so, then you probably can continue bulking. If you can't see any abs or you have one big ab with some pretty serious love handles in the back, then you probably need to cut. If you have a gut that overhangs your belt, then hell yes you need to cut.

[rhino1964]

Yes, I have that horrible overhanging gut.

This might be best for me anyway to cut now. I had a hernia repaired in January (mesh) and I've been forced to lift lighter weights, so I'll just keep the reps/volume high plus some high intensity interval stuff and see what happens. My only concern is losing what little muscle mass I have. The majority of my bodyfat is collected around the belly and love handles--as happens to most guys. It might be another year before I can safely lift heavy again. The surgeon told me that I could return to my old routine by April (now), but I don't want to risk another injury.

[KarateChris]

Yes, I have that horrible overhanging gut.

This might be best for me anyway to cut now. I had a hernia repaired in January (mesh) and I've been forced to lift lighter weights, so I'll just keep the reps/volume high plus some high intensity interval stuff and see what happens. My only concern is losing what little muscle mass I have. The majority of my bodyfat is collected around the belly and love handles--as happens to most guys. It might be another year before I can safely lift heavy again. The surgeon told me that I could return to my old routine by April (now), but I don't want to risk another injury.

Well, he is correct in saying you could return to your old routine. The surgery should have repaired it, and you should have given your body ample time to heal. Whatever method best put on the muscle will be the best method to hold on to the muscle. That's why guys shouldn't drastically change their lifting style when they're dieting. If you eat enough protein and only lose 1-2 lbs per week then you probably won't lose much muscle. You may think you are but it's probably fat. If you have the overhanging gut, then it's definitely time to cut. Good luck.

[sircharles032]

In my honest opinion let the mirror tell you when to cut and not the calipers or somebody else.

I may be making an offbase assumption here but I bet you are like me in the fact that you weight train because you enjoy it and it's benefits, not because you are planning to compete on a stage. If I begin to feel after a while that I've started to gain too much fat and I'd rather lose it and then continue to bulk then I will cut for a little bit, simple as that. The bottom line is that you have to be happy with you regardless of what anyone else feels is appropriate for you.

If you're afraid of losing muscle then just make sure that you keep your protein and BCAA intake up and do not do any type of drastic diet, just lower your calories enough so that you lose it slowly.

I'm not quite the size that you are but when I was up in the 210-215 range I felt like I was gaining too much fat and it was causing me to lose my definition. About 2 months later I had dropped down to a shade below 200 and I was getting compliments for getting "bigger" even though I was in fact smaller. It makes your body look better overall to lower bodyfat even if it's not by a lot.


Cliffs - If it will make you happier to go ahead and cut then do it.

[rhino1964]

Well, he is correct in saying you could return to your old routine. The surgery should have repaired it, and you should have given your body ample time to heal. Whatever method best put on the muscle will be the best method to hold on to the muscle. That's why guys shouldn't drastically change their lifting style when they're dieting. If you eat enough protein and only lose 1-2 lbs per week then you probably won't lose much muscle. You may think you are but it's probably fat. If you have the overhanging gut, then it's definitely time to cut. Good luck.

I'v ereturned to my old routine several times during the last few weeks, getting gradually a little heavier. Somedays I'm okay, somedays the area of the surgery will ache. Of course it's still a bit tender. I just try to avoid anything that hurts (leg presses are okay, hack squats are a no-no).

[rhino1964]

In my honest opinion let the mirror tell you when to cut and not the calipers or somebody else.

I may be making an offbase assumption here but I bet you are like me in the fact that you weight train because you enjoy it and it's benefits, not because you are planning to compete on a stage. If I begin to feel after a while that I've started to gain too much fat and I'd rather lose it and then continue to bulk then I will cut for a little bit, simple as that. The bottom line is that you have to be happy with you regardless of what anyone else feels is appropriate for you.

If you're afraid of losing muscle then just make sure that you keep your protein and BCAA intake up and do not do any type of drastic diet, just lower your calories enough so that you lose it slowly.

I'm not quite the size that you are but when I was up in the 210-215 range I felt like I was gaining too much fat and it was causing me to lose my definition. About 2 months later I had dropped down to a shade below 200 and I was getting compliments for getting "bigger" even though I was in fact smaller. It makes your body look better overall to lower bodyfat even if it's not by a lot.


Cliffs - If it will make you happier to go ahead and cut then do it.

Sometimes I wonder what I would look like at 200 lbs, but I'm afraid of losing the inch and a half I added to my arms last year--it wasn't easy. But some say a smaller arm would still look better on a lean body as long as it's muscular.

As for diet, I'm considering gradually cutting carbs down ,starting with bread and pasta. *sigh*

[rhino1964]

^.^

[Hut*Hut]

I've been making steady gains in mass overall, but I still have ugly belly fat I hope to lose someday. One guy who is a fairly advanced bodybuilder suggested I continue to add mass and then sometime later down the road start cutting and get rid of the bellyfat. He says, "When you have more muscle mass, it becomes easier to burn bodyfat."

Do you agree with this general assessment, or do you have a different opinion? People are asking me if I'm losing weight, and I'm not, but the little extra size on my shoulders and upper back is making my gut look smaller to some (not to me, though, it still looks monstrous). I'm somewhat inclined to just keep adding mass for another year, and then maybe start cutting next Spring, but I still don't like this gut (I've named it my "mid-life crisis").

As far as workout programs go, I'm doing a typical push/pull split, day one--chest/shoulders/triceps, day two--legs/calves, day three--back/biceps, day four--rest. Sometimes I'll take an extra day off if I'm not well recovered. As far as diet goes, I'm eating as much as I can of clean foods, such as egg whites, whole grains, chicken breast, turkey breast, skim milk, lowfat cottage cheese, lean ground beef, etc. Supplements: BCAAs, creatine, Gaspari SuperPump 250, multivitamin/mineral, glucosamine. I do 20-30 minutes of cardio 3x per week (mostly to keep my hypertension under control, which is doing really well these days).

I don't think your gonna get an answer to your Q mate, only you can decide this based on your goals and personal tolerance for the flub. Seems to me you have a size and strength base that would leave you in really good nick if you got yourself down to 10%. But if your final goal is to be a freaky mass monster 'really good nick' might not be what you're looking for and cutting might just delay getting to where you wanna end up.

[rhino1964]

Hut*Hut:

Well...ideally, becoming a mass monster would be very nice. One buddy of mine who's fairly big says: keep lifting heavy and eat everything in sight until you reach 300+ bodyweight, like Arnold said you need to add about 20 lbs overall to gain about an inch on your arms, so go huge now and cut later on.

If I cut my bodyfat and drop to around 210, I might look good with my shirt off, but with my shirt on nobody will guess that I lift weights. And then I'll always be wondering, what would I have looked like at 310 lbs?

[KarateChris]

IMO, the more fat I accumulate, it seems that the more likely I am to put on the fat... when I'm outside of my "ideal bf range" that is. Going on extremely long bulks tends to slow your metabolism down and your levels of leptin go down considerably. Also don't forget that fat in adipose tissue makes aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen, which that alone will make it more likely for the weight you're putting on to be fat and not necessarily muscle. If you cut to 200 lbs and you lose an inch on your arms, that inch probably wasn't muscle... it was probably fat you're losing from your arms. Remember you don't just have fat around your belly...

[BiggsTheGoalie]

"but with my shirt on nobody will guess that I lift weights"

I'm sure people will notice. Sounds a little narcissistic, but just get smaller shirts.

[cmurray]

I would go ahead and cut and see where it takes you.. If you are cutting and you think you are looking too skinny, then you can always reverse and try a clean bulk for a while.

[rhino1964]

"but with my shirt on nobody will guess that I lift weights"

I'm sure people will notice. Sounds a little narcissistic, but just get smaller shirts.

LOL The guy I mentioned who told me to keep bulking should be wearing an extra large but somehow manages to squeeze into a medium. Unless it's winter (when he has a little belly), then he switches to sweat shirts.

I've tried that with wearing a smaller sized shirt, but what happens is, everything gets emphasized, especially the gut!

[rhino1964]

I would go ahead and cut and see where it takes you.. If you are cutting and you think you are looking too skinny, then you can always reverse and try a clean bulk for a while.

I'm going to go ahead and try cutting , I can't lift really heavy right now anyway due to my hernia repair. Sets of 20-25 reps will force me to keep the weight down and maybe add more definition. I tried a couple times lifting my old weights but the area of the surgery ended up aching really bad, so I'm going to have to back off going heavy for a while, unfortunately. But it's all about muscle stimulation and growth, after all, not how much weight one can sling around (unless you're a powerlifter--and I admire them, but it's not for my old bones).

[cmurray]

I'm going to go ahead and try cutting , I can't lift really heavy right now anyway due to my hernia repair. Sets of 20-25 reps will force me to keep the weight down and maybe add more definition. I tried a couple times lifting my old weights but the area of the surgery ended up aching really bad, so I'm going to have to back off going heavy for a while, unfortunately. But it's all about muscle stimulation and growth, after all, not how much weight one can sling around (unless you're a powerlifter--and I admire them, but it's not for my old bones).

That sounds like a good plan. It's probably a good idea to let that hernia repair heal up a little bit. It sounds like the perfect time to cut. Best of luck man!