I find it absolutely fascinatin that mankind still eats meat (srs)

[Iron_Prophet]

If people visited the factory farms where their meat comes from then I have no doubt a lot of people would stop eating meat.

My uncle runs a cattle farm and I have seen what happens.

Made me feel like a steak (srs)

[Big Slim DaDDy]

well i think rape is ok, so dont tell me wtf to do. i feel bad for peple who get raped, but if it didnt happen kids wouldnt be born. a guys gotta do what hs gotta do (NOT SRS) (ps. this is a trap )

Edit: holy crap, yes the fact that morals are not self evident, is in fact proof that rape is not inherently wrong.

Shut up you're seriously a retard who has no real argument whatsoever.


A species doesn't rape to survive you dumb tit it does eat another species to survive. Jesus Christ. You're breaking the stupid barrier just stop.

[Klippymitch]

People that say morals do not exist are dumb people posing to be smart. Good and bad is wired in our brains unless you have psychological issues that makes you not have feelings but even then they know the difference between good and bad.

we rage when we see someone being taken advantage of because we know it's wrong

[CrazyFTW]

Shut up you're seriously a retard who has no real argument whatsoever.


A species doesn't rape to survive you dumb tit it does eat another species to survive. Jesus Christ. You're breaking the stupid barrier just stop.

lmfao

[Big Slim DaDDy]

People that say morals do not exist are dumb people posing to be smart. Good and bad is wired in our brains unless you have psychological issues that makes you not have feelings but even then they know the difference between good and bad.

we rage when we see someone being taken advantage of because we know it's wrong

I dunno if your talking about me but in nature morals do not exist. Everything kills everything without remorse if it benefits its survival.

[MikeD4386]

I agree that generally, saying "X is natural, therefore it's moral" is crap. However, your example of rape is a little off - most men don't walk around with the urge to rape, so using it as an example of some primitive, obviously immoral urge inside all of us to disprove this generality fails. There are other components to us, anger, jealousy, hate, and their associated actions, which do demonstrate that we certainly can't just do whatever feels natural or society falls apart (even at the tribal level). So no, b/c something is natural does not mean it's justifiable or moral.

That said, in the case of eating meat, though I rank humans as intellectually superior to other species, we're merely products of evolutionary processes and as such, and as part of the dynamic order of nature, we are invited to compete for scarce resources. We get iron and nitrogen and Vitamin B12 from animal flesh, just as we get carbohydrates and Vitamin C from the flesh of fruit. As we live, we excrete waste, we slough off skin cells into the air, and when we die, our bodies decompose - all of this is consumed by bacteria and fungi and returned to the earth to fuel lower forms of life, which are then fuel for higher forms of life, and so on until you get to humans once again. Viewing humans as simply one part of nature, and seeing how we fit in to the cycle of life, it makes sense for us to consume lower forms of life only to eventually be returned as food for lower forms of life.




Just surprised that an intelligent man such as yourself would sport such a simple-minded signature. Seems hypocritical that you accuse Christians of under-thinking the issues then you go and sport such a moronic signature.





PS: I am fawking hungover and I am having trouble getting my thoughts out.

Ok, im going to rip apart ur whole post.

Men do have the urge to rape. They have the urge to steal, and to murder. They imply resist because society says its wrong. In fact, because it is so frowned upon by society u lie to urself and pretend u do not want to murder steal and rape. The truth is it is a primal instinct to do all those things. As it eating meat.
As far as rape, I think men are superior to women they should be allowed to rape whoome and whenever they want; women are a scarce resource, and we must compete for them and take what we can.
The cycle of life is an artificial construct of the “natural order of things”. This does make its components morally acceptable, so I will not even debate this.

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Ok, im going to rip apart ur whole post.

Men do have the urge to rape. They have the urge to steal, and to murder. .

The average guy does not have the urge to do any of those things. Stop debating you're making yourself sound like the worlds biggest idiot with every post.




Do you have the urge to do those things? Be honest, you are kind of retarded I wouldn't be surprised if you are in fact a deranged psychopath.

[MikeD4386]

Holy $hit at your last paragraph. Serious..your doing more harm for your side than good. You'd be better off a spectator.

here is wikipedia's definition of Evolution: "Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations"

Humans have evolved very little (relativfe to other species) in the last few million years. in the last couple hundred thousand years we have hardly evolved at all.

man does not adapt himself to fit his environment. he adapts his environment to suit him.

[AKR]

I agree that generally, saying "X is natural, therefore it's moral" is crap. However, your example of rape is a little off - most men don't walk around with the urge to rape, so using it as an example of some primitive, obviously immoral urge inside all of us to disprove this generality fails.

It doesn't fail, because the characteristic we're dealing with here is the fact that it's been done for thousand of years in human culture, with both have. The argument hasn't been "we have a natural urge to do so." I'd say that many men have a natural urge to rape, though. I've seen studies that show a lot of guys would rape if they could get away with it. But regardless, the justification was it being part of human culture for a long time, which both are.

Sure, not every guy instinctually wants to rape, but what if he did? You would be like, "wtf, that's a dumb justification." You wouldn't be all for it, based on that argument, and that's the point I'm trying to make. If you think an argument sucks when it's justification for something you're against, then you can't use it for something you're for.

There are other components to us, anger, jealousy, hate, and their associated actions, which do demonstrate that we certainly can't just do whatever feels natural or society falls apart (even at the tribal level). So no, b/c something is natural does not mean it's justifiable or moral.

That said, in the case of eating meat, though I rank humans as intellectually superior to other species, we're merely products of evolutionary processes and as such, and as part of the dynamic order of nature, we are invited to compete for scarce resources. We get iron and salt and nitrogen and Vitamin B12 from animal flesh, just as we get carbohydrates and Vitamin C from the flesh of fruit.

We can get everything from vegan sources.




http://www.health.qld.gov.au/nutriti...atal_vegan.pdf

A well planned vegan diet is able to meet nutrition requirements for pregnancy and
breastfeeding."

The American Dietetic Association:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/705344

The American Dietetic Association contends that carefully planned vegetarian diets, including vegan diets, are healthful and nutritionally sufficient for individuals of all ages, including pregnant or lactating women, infants, children, adolescents, and athletes. During pregnancy, adherence to a nutritionally adequate vegetarian diet can lead to positive health outcomes for both the mother and infant.

The American Heart Association

http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4777

Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.

Vegetarian diets can be healthful and nutritionally sound if they’re carefully planned to include essential nutrients.

As we live, we excrete waste, we slough off skin cells into the air, and when we die, our bodies decompose - all of this is consumed by bacteria and fungi and returned to the earth to fuel lower forms of life, which are then fuel for higher forms of life, and so on until you get to humans once again. Viewing humans as simply one part of nature, and seeing how we fit in to the cycle of life, it makes sense for us to consume lower forms of life only to eventually be returned as food for lower forms of life.

I'm sure superior aliens would use that same justification in torturing and eating us.

[pidginduck]

OP is a retard.

Might as well stop eating green too right? After we give animals rights, how about we give dat der plants some rights too.

[MikeD4386]

Evolved . . . lol

Adaptation and evolution is about mastering your environment so you can pass on your genetics. That being said, humans are one of the only species that can live on all 7 continents, travel to space, and have control over every other species our size (and we are getting a lot better at controlling the small ones). Passing on our genetics is not determined by how much we can eat or how healthy we are, but often it is determined by if we "want" to. Or if we really find that best match in our lives.

It is likely that in another thousand years we will have significant control over all studied species on our planet. In another 10 thousand years we maybe able to spread to other planets . . . I don't know about you. But i would consider Humans the most impressive life form, Simply because of the possibilities we have and the control we have over our environment and conditions and places we can live in.

Can't eat calcium or live in extreme temperatures? We can hunt any animal, grow any crop, manipulate any environment to live in. That is ****ing impressive.

just because we can solve calculus problems and travel to mars doesn mean we are more volved. it means we are more adaptabl.




The more adaptable you are, the less you evolve.


chew on that for a while, then go look up what evoltion is, because you seem to think it means building new rockets and skyscapers.

[Big Slim DaDDy]

here is wikipedia's definition of Evolution: "Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations"

Humans have evolved very little (relativfe to other species) in the last few million years. in the last couple hundred thousand years we have hardly evolved at all.

man does not adapt himself to fit his environment. he adapts his environment to suit him.

Cool story bro.

[Klippymitch]

I dunno if your talking about me but in nature morals do not exist. Everything kills everything without remorse if it benefits its survival.

Man was once in nature and we have the knowledge of good and bad. We have intelligence and the capability to decipher. Animals follow instincts for survival. You can not put blame on a animal that does not have the capability to think. Animals that cannot think do not have the capability to do evil. Evil is done with the knowledge of bad but still do it anyways. Humans have the knowledge of good and bad.

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Man was once in nature and we have the knowledge of good and bad. We have intelligence and the capability to decipher. Animals follow instincts for survival. You can not put blame on a animal that does not have the capability to think. Animals that cannot think do not have the capability to do evil. Evil is done with the knowledge of bad but still do it anyways. Humans have the knowledge of good and bad.

Good and bad through your own interpretation.

[MikeD4386]

People that say morals do not exist are dumb people posing to be smart. Good and bad is wired in our brains unless you have psychological issues that makes you not have feelings but even then they know the difference between good and bad.

we rage when we see someone being taken advantage of because we know it's wrong

since you are saying we have hardwired morals because we have evolved to do so. (which i will not dispute, i have no knowledge of that subject).

have you ever considered that maybe people with higher morals (vegetarians) are more evolved? it fits into ur model. AND, according to u, we eolved toe at meat. so paradox of the century buddy,figure that on out.

if x is 3 then 2x is 6. it cannot be seven. you guys cannot have maleable models. ur ethical models must apply to evey scenario.

[CrazyFTW]

Ok, im going to rip apart ur whole post.

Men do have the urge to rape. They have the urge to steal, and to murder. They simply resist because society says its wrong.

I stopped reading right there. You are either seriously misinformed, or you are a sociopath. I have never had the urge to rape in my entire life. I've only rarely had the urge to murder, and that was in times of self defense. I've rarely had the urge to steal. Your understanding of human nature is flawed.

[Number_Seven]

Did not read 11 page thread.




Brb eating bacon because it's unethical to starve.

[pidginduck]

if x is 3 then 2x is 6. it cannot be seven. you guys cannot have maleable models. ur ethical models must apply to evey scenario.

Did you just apply math to a concept that is relative? You are an idiot and the public education system has clearly failed you.

Negged.

[Klippymitch]

Good and bad through your own interpretation.

Good and bad are basically universal laws like gravity. It's always been around and always will be around since the creation of the universe.

[BOOMGetSwole]

If people visited the factory farms where their meat comes from then I have no doubt a lot of people would stop eating meat.

Stats: 5'6", 149 lbs

Vegtarianism all the way bro

[MikeD4386]

The average guy does not have the urge to do any of those things. Stop debating you're making yourself sound like the worlds biggest idiot with every post.




Do you have the urge to do those things? Be honest, you are kind of retarded I wouldn't be surprised if you are in fact a deranged psychopath.

people do have an urge to rape/steal etc.

They have a more powerful urge, however, to not feel like an immoral piece of ****. this is why men do not rob gas stations and rape women all the time. some do becaue they say: I have no desire to be moral, so i will go wild. then their instinct kicks in and they break the law.

if u r really so naive as to think that people do not have an inherent urge to do immoral things, then i suggest u have a deep meditation and ponder this idea. try picking up a book and reading freud, or any other philosohper or psychologist who ever lived. they will tell u people are inherently wrong. The big problem in the world is that religions say people are inherently good. thats why science and religion cannot coexist (yet), because they are founded on antithetical postulates of human nature.

[MikeD4386]

I stopped reading right there. You are either seriously misinformed, or you are a sociopath. I have never had the urge to rape in my entire life. I've only rarely had the urge to murder, and that was in times of self defense. I've rarely had the urge to steal. Your understanding of human nature is flawed.

Good and bad are basically universal laws like gravity. It's always been around and always will be around since the creation of the universe.

you two guys are morons. there s not a reputable scholar alive, or who has ever lived, that believed (unless through sheer naivety alone) that men are inherntly good. Raise a kid in a white room and release them into society when they're older. they were rob convenience stores and beat people up to get what they want. u r embarassing the human race by thinking people are inhernetly good.

Why are people so violent when they are drunk, why do so many people have mutually unonsensual sex when they are drunk? Cuz their defenses are down, and they give into primal insticnts.

Stats: 5'6", 149 lbs

Vegtarianism all the way bro

this is the ad hominim fallacy at its finest. The average human grows out of this logical reasonoing stage by age 3. U sir, r still stuck under its guise. good luck survinving in the world

[CrazyFTW]

We can get everything from vegan sources.

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/nutriti...atal_vegan.pdf

A widely held but false belief. Veganism is wrong:

1. Yes, there are vegan sources of all necessary nutrients but they are not all accessible to the human digestive system to the extent that our needs can be satisfied. e.g. Vitamin B12

2. Continuing with the above point, veganism is not possible in most parts of the world - you have to live in a wealthy enough region (e.g. North America) that can import a wide enough variety of vegan food sources to even come close to getting an appropriate supply of vitamins and minerals.

Thus, veganism fails to provide vital nutrients and is impossible without living in a well-developed first world country - hardly seems morally superior to omnivorism in that light.

I'm sure superior aliens would use that same justification in torturing and eating us.

Ahaha the one argument I've found I cannot top. Yes, despite all that I said, what if aliens came to earth, found us to be only slightly above whales and far below their level of evolution, and consumed us at will. I would instinctively say that the aliens are wrong, we are self-aware sentient beings, but the fact is any argument I give against the aliens eating lower species (i.e. humans) could be given against the humans eating lower species (i.e. animals).

I have been pondering this point for many years and I cannot provide a convincing argument against it. GJDM.

[Big Slim DaDDy]

people do have an urge to rape/steal etc.
.

No they don't. You've basically admitted to us that you do you sick fuk. I've said all I really feel like saying I'm gonna unsubscribe from this psychopath retards thread. Have fun.

[22davidson22]

u have an amazing inability to comprehend things that are not spelled out for u.

I'll do it again:

your argument:

plants RESPOND to pain, so they must FEEL pain.

SO...

Robots RESPOND to pain, so they must FEEL pain. theres no way around it. my point is response does not prove that it felt pain. if someone touches u in ur sleep u will move, but did u really feel it?

Wow your dumb, simple a robot wouldnt be responding to pain it would be responding to the action, it can't feel pain. Infact if anything you would be the one reacting to pain after your stupid ass punched it. How can you compare that to someone touching you when you are asleep? we have things called nerves that give us the sense of touch and feel pain. If someone touches you when you are asleep yes you feel it you just dont remember or your mind will act it out somehow in your dream.

Everyone in this thread is so ****ing stupid I cannot stand it anymore. If u like meat, that’s fine, I don’t give a ****. Just because our ancestors did it doesn’t make it ok. It can be ok for OTHER REASONS, but not that one. Our ancestors murdered and raped and stole and arsoned, but we don’t find these things acceptable anymore. It’s fine to disagree, but do so with a solid foundation. Saying our ancestors did it is not a LEGITIMATE REASON. This is the logic 5 yr olds use when “but the other kids did that, why am only I in trouble”. I did not know u all had the logical reasoning of five year olds. My mistake. Maybe in a few years, we can resume this discussion, since, obviously, no one can handle it right now.

It's not what our ancestors did its how they did it that is considered wrong. Rape is just sex which is still exeptable just not without consent. Murder is still ok, so long as that person is threating the lives of others such as a terrorist. Arson is destroying others property which happens all the time and is still acceptable. You know how many bombs have been dropped on buildings that no one has said a word about because the were dropped on the building of "bad" people?

It's not the actions that are wrong its the context in which you do them. No matter what the action, if its in the best intrest of mankind its acceptable and eating meat is in our best interest.

if someone stabs you, or break one of your bones, you will feel it
if you bite down onto a plant, they will feel it

and i disagree, that is all.

HA thats not a matter of opinion like if you like the colour blue or not its a matter of FACT. Just because a life form can't move or scream in pain doesn't mean it can't feel it, if you still don't beleive plants have a sense of touch google the venus fly trap and how it knows the difference between a fly on it and a rain drop

[CrazyFTW]

No they don't. You've basically admitted to us that you do you sick fuk.

Ironic that the big moralist in this thread also insists that he wants to rape and murder people. What a tard.

[R1FF]

successful troll is successful

[MikeD4386]

A widely held but false belief. Veganism is wrong:

1. Yes, there are vegan sources of all necessary nutrients but they are not all accessible to the human digestive system to the extent that our needs can be satisfied. e.g. Vitamin B12

2. Continuing with the above point, veganism is not possible in most parts of the world - you have to live in a wealthy enough region (e.g. North America) that can import a wide enough variety of vegan food sources to even come close to getting an appropriate supply of vitamins and minerals.

Thus, veganism fails to provide vital nutrients and is impossible without living in a well-developed first world country - hardly seems morally superior to omnivorism in that light.





Ahaha the one argument I've found I cannot top. Yes, despite all that I said, what if aliens came to earth, found us to be only slightly above whales and far below their level of evolution, and consumed us at will. I would instinctively say that the aliens are wrong, we are self-aware sentient beings, but the fact is any argument I give against the aliens eating lower species (i.e. humans) could be given against the humans eating lower species (i.e. animals).

I have been pondering this point for many years and I cannot provide a convincing argument against it. GJDM.

I am not going to read that whole freakin articl, but i will respond to ur post.

U can get b-12 from algae. one grain of sand size of algae has the RDA of b-12 for the day.

[rainieravesouth]

vegetables are living organisms as well. it's unethical to eat them.

so we should just stop eating and die. sustinence doesn't matter. ethics first, right?

[Thread Bomber]

STFU
brb while I'm eating my Turducken with a bologanse sauce