Is Casein Protein bad for general health?

[sam_swift]

This is a serious question, so please don't think I'm being ignorant or ludicrous in my concern.

I remember in science class as a youngster that if we added some vinegar to milk and let it set and then filter out the milk we would be left with a nontoxic adhesive. If you don't believe me, you could feel free to try it yourself. My question is, do you think casein protein powder could possibly be bad for our digestive tracts considering this fact? Sure, we don't mix our casein powder with vinegar, but this revelation seems concerning to me.

Can this be part of the reason why casein protein takes so long for our bodies to digest, because it is a substance possibly not suited to be ingested by the human body?

I would love to read some scientific research on this matter if someone has any at their disposal. I would be equally interested in some informed and educated responses, as well. Please utilize reasonable logic and rational or, even better, scientific conclusions to argue your view on this matter. In other words, don't just say yes or no.

[Holyspokes]

I don't see the connection...at all

[sam_swift]

I don't see the connection...at all

I'm sure when you look up in the skies you never noticed the certain connection of stars that create constellations. That doesn't mean they don't exist, right?

You have to think outside of the box and ask questions sometimes in hopes of broadening your knowledge. I'm just hoping someone can share some scientific information on the matter.

[Holyspokes]

I'm sure when you look up in the skies you never noticed the certain connection of stars that create constellations. That doesn't mean they don't exist, right?

You have to think outside of the box and ask questions sometimes in hopes of broadening your knowledge. I'm just hoping someone can share some scientific information on the matter.

I meant, how does vinegar mixed with milk and then removing the milk to form an adhesive, mean casein is bad for people?

[sam_swift]

I meant, how does vinegar mixed with milk and then removing the milk to form an adhesive, mean casein is bad for people?

It doesn't mean anything, really. Your above statement represents a conclusion that I never made. I am hoping this thread will serve as a way for me to reach a conclusion based on informed knowledge on this matter.

My main concern is that the body will be unable to fully digest casein powder thus remaining stuck in the digestive tract, ultimately negatively impacting overall health.

[MikeK46]

It is perfectly suited for digestion. Breastmilk is 40% casein.

I don't know the fine details, I'm sure you can look them up if you're interested, but adhesion is just the result of differences in the electronegativities. I'm sure you can turn many compounds into adhesives by changing the chemistry...in making your glue, you are deliberately changing the chemistry with the vinegar by making the milk itself even more acidic than the casein. Doing this causes the casein molecules, including phosphorous to come OUT of the milk in which they'd normally be suspended and prevented from bonding together. This does not occur during digestion.

There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the fact that you can make an adhesive out of something and whether it is suited for us to eat.

[sam_swift]

It is perfectly suited for digestion. Breastmilk is 40% casein.

I don't know the fine details, I'm sure you can look them up if you're interested, but adhesion is just the result of differences in the electronegativities. I'm sure you can turn many compounds into adhesives by changing the chemistry...in making your glue, you are deliberately changing the chemistry with the vinegar by making the milk itself even more acidic than the casein. Doing this causes the casein molecules, including phosphorous to come OUT of the milk in which they'd normally be suspended and prevented from bonding together. This does not occur during digestion.

There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the fact that you can make an adhesive out of something and whether it is suited for us to eat.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate and respect how you reached your conclusion.

However, breast milk being 40% casein is much different than ingesting a powder which is made of over 90% casein. Do you think the body could possibly have a difficult time digesting such high percentage and quantities of casein (24g per serving)?

If the answer is yes to this question don't you think it is rationale to believe that that continual strain on the digestive system will ultimately have negative effects. Whether it be sooner or later, it seems this is inevitable. The human body can withstand a lot, but if you continue to subject it to constant strain, it will eventually deteriorate.

Again, this is not a conclusion. Just a thought I would like to evaluate.

[homerunrbi]

Curr Pharm Des. 2003;9(16):1289-95. Related Articles, Links


Biofunctional peptides from milk proteins: mineral binding and cytomodulatory effects.

Meisel H, FitzGerald RJ.

Federal Dairy Research Centre, Institute for Chemistry and Technology, Kiel, Germany. meisel@bafm.de

The protein fraction of milk contains many valuable components and biologically active substances. Moreover, milk proteins are precursors of many different biologically active peptides which are inactive within the sequence of the precursor protein but can be released by enzymatic proteolysis. Many milk protein-derived peptides, such as caseinophosphopeptides, reveal multi-functional bioactivities. Caseinophosphopeptides can form soluble organophosphate salts and may function as carriers for different minerals, especially calcium. Furthermore, they have been shown to exert cytomodulatory effects. Cytomodulatory peptides inhibit cancer cell growth or they stimulate the activity of immunocompetent cells and neonatal intestinal cells, respectively. Several bioactive peptides derived from milk proteins are potential modulators of various regulatory processes in the body and thus may exert beneficial physiological effects.
Caseinophosphopeptides are already produced on an industrial-scale and as a consequence these peptides have been considered for application as ingredients in both 'functional foods' and pharmaceutical preparations. Although the physiological significance as exogenous regulatory substances is not yet fully understood, both mineral binding and cytomodulatory peptides derived from bovine milk proteins are claimed to be health enhancing components that can be used to reduce the risk of disease or to enhance a certain physiological function.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 12769737 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[sam_swift]

Thanks for the study, homerunrbi. It is nice to know that casein was researched for its positive effects on the body. However, I naturally have a "devil's advocate" type of mentality and would also be interested if there were any negative effects on the body from ingesting casein on a continual basis, especially on the digestive tract. After all, no one questions that casein has some benefits. Yet, I am still unaware and uncertain if there are any significantly potential downfalls to supplementing with it.

I must say that, thus far, this thread has been a success. Thanks to all that participated.

[Skullaway]

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/cheese

Cheese is made from the casein in milk.

People have been eating cheese longer than you and I have been around. Unless you are allergic to casein then it has been proven to be safe to eat.

This tells how casein powder is made http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sup...n-protein.html

[MikeK46]

However, breast milk being 40% casein is much different than ingesting a powder which is made of over 90% casein. Do you think the body could possibly have a difficult time digesting such high percentage and quantities of casein (24g per serving)?

By theorizing that it's not suitable in high quantities, you're harping back your first assumption about casein not being suitable for digestion in the first place.

Per my first response, I'm fairly certain there is nothing about casein that poses any harm to our digestive system. Therefore, neither 5g, 25g, or 250g should pose any casein-related risk.

We've evolved to produce the protease enzyme called chymosin for the beneficial effect it has for infants: it causes the milk we ingest to curdle, and therefore spend more time in the GI tract for consistent and longer-lasting absorption of amino acids, which is the more beneficial method of nutrient uptake for an infant.

When you ingest casein, chymosin hydrolyzes the peptide bond in k-casein. Casein is a phosphoprotein: it contains phosphoric acid. (Phosphates, as you know, are found in adenosine phosphates AMP, ADP and ATP, and in your DNA and RNA). When the liquids drain, the acidic environment results in coagulation of the casein into a gel. The gel results in sustained, slow release of amino acids into the blood stream which lasts up to 7 hours. This is ideal for anti-catabolism (prevention of cellular breakdown) in muscle.

Skullaway mentioned cheese. Chymosin is the very same enzyme they use to make cheese.

[On Fire]

By theorizing that it's not suitable in high quantities, you're harping back your first assumption about casein not being suitable for digestion in the first place.

Per my first response, I'm fairly certain there is nothing about casein that poses any harm to our digestive system. Therefore, neither 5g, 25g, or 250g should pose any casein-related risk.

We've evolved to produce the protease enzyme called chymosin for the beneficial effect it has for infants: it causes the milk we ingest to curdle, and therefore spend more time in the GI tract for consistent and longer-lasting absorption of amino acids, which is the more beneficial method of nutrient uptake for an infant.

When you ingest casein, chymosin hydrolyzes the peptide bond in k-casein. Casein is a phosphoprotein: it contains phosphoric acid. (Phosphates, as you know, are found in adenosine phosphates AMP, ADP and ATP, and in your DNA and RNA). When the liquids drain, the acidic environment results in coagulation of the casein into a gel. The gel results in sustained, slow release of amino acids into the blood stream which lasts up to 7 hours. This is ideal for anti-catabolism (prevention of cellular breakdown) in muscle.

Skullaway mentioned cheese. Chymosin is the very same enzyme they use to make cheese.

You guys can hit this sam_swift kid with all the scientific fact you want, he's not going to get it.

I present to you this abomination of a thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123288831

I honestly thought we chased this knob off.

[AVOJAMACADA]

I think theres more digestible protein sources better then casein in general,for sure.

Im not the biggest fan of pure casein protein personally.Might not be "bad" for you but its not really "good" for you,by any means, in my research and personall experience.

[lovehasrisen]

I drink my Vasolate day and night..

[Muppetz3]

I drink my Vasolate day and night..

vinegar does that to eggs too. It's a reaction to the protien

[SwiftyX]

Whole food protein takes far longer than casein to digest. Casein digests at a rate of around 6g and hour which is relatively "fast" in the grand scheme of protein sources you should be taking in.

Any mixed meal would result in even slower digestion. This doesn't mean having a meal with a protein,carb source and a healthy fat is bad for your body.

Your entire theory is a non sequitur.

[ErickStevens]

Might not be "bad" for you but its not really "good" for you,by any means, in my research and personall experience.

Huh?

[ilove2run]

Huh?

Total this lol, I mean its milk............(baasically).....but turns your shakes into thick-creamy-goodness lol

[smt1]

If casein protein was bad for you, then humans would not have reached the state of evolution that they have. Indeed, no mammalian life would have.

[Yashnaheen]

I don't think you really understand how your body digests protein, or things in general.

cliff notes -
Proteins come in various flavors.

These are broken down by enzymes in you. This does far nastier things to food than vinegar ever would.

Your body throws more enzymes at it after the stomach has its fun, and it is all turned into amino acids.

Humans (well, mammals in general) are designed to break down Casein, along with a bunch of other neat stuff.

90% vs 40% doesn't matter. It doesn't irritate or damage anything in high concentration. All that could matter (as far as digestion) is an overload in 1 sitting. eg don't take 200g of it at once and you are just peachy.

As far as your body is concerned raw Casein protein is quite quick to digest.

tl;dr: No.

[sam_swift]

By theorizing that it's not suitable in high quantities, you're harping back your first assumption about casein not being suitable for digestion in the first place.

Per my first response, I'm fairly certain there is nothing about casein that poses any harm to our digestive system. Therefore, neither 5g, 25g, or 250g should pose any casein-related risk.

We've evolved to produce the protease enzyme called chymosin for the beneficial effect it has for infants: it causes the milk we ingest to curdle, and therefore spend more time in the GI tract for consistent and longer-lasting absorption of amino acids, which is the more beneficial method of nutrient uptake for an infant.

When you ingest casein, chymosin hydrolyzes the peptide bond in k-casein. Casein is a phosphoprotein: it contains phosphoric acid. (Phosphates, as you know, are found in adenosine phosphates AMP, ADP and ATP, and in your DNA and RNA). When the liquids drain, the acidic environment results in coagulation of the casein into a gel. The gel results in sustained, slow release of amino acids into the blood stream which lasts up to 7 hours. This is ideal for anti-catabolism (prevention of cellular breakdown) in muscle.

Skullaway mentioned cheese. Chymosin is the very same enzyme they use to make cheese.

Excellent response, Mike. This is the sole reason why I generate these sort of topics. To broaden my knowledge, thanks to individuals who clearly know much more about it than I do. I applaud your response and thank you for your ability, patience, and willingness to explain the answer to me.

Excellent topic, I've really taken away a lot from it.

[sam_swift]

You guys can hit this sam_swift kid with all the scientific fact you want, he's not going to get it.

I present to you this abomination of a thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123288831

I honestly thought we chased this knob off.

You are truly a sad individual. Why do you have it in for me so bad? I must have really hurt your feelings in that last topic that you still keep track on it. Secondly, someone as insignificant as yourself will never "chase me off". If you did, I would be extremely ashamed of myself and I don't see that happening. You can continue to negative rep me, it doesn't matter to me.

Unlike you, I utilize these forums not to antagonize other users but to attempt to absorb any information they may be willing to share with me. It seems like individuals like you never bother to ask questions that may arise to some as controversial and it clearly bothers you when people do. Not everyone in life is a sheep like yourself, and it seems to truly irritate you when someone decides to stray away from the linear path you're used to following.

[RealMenDeadLift]

lulz, I love E-fights

[rhizome]

By theorizing that it's not suitable in high quantities, you're harping back your first assumption about casein not being suitable for digestion in the first place.

Per my first response, I'm fairly certain there is nothing about casein that poses any harm to our digestive system. Therefore, neither 5g, 25g, or 250g should pose any casein-related risk.

We've evolved to produce the protease enzyme called chymosin for the beneficial effect it has for infants: it causes the milk we ingest to curdle, and therefore spend more time in the GI tract for consistent and longer-lasting absorption of amino acids, which is the more beneficial method of nutrient uptake for an infant.

When you ingest casein, chymosin hydrolyzes the peptide bond in k-casein. Casein is a phosphoprotein: it contains phosphoric acid. (Phosphates, as you know, are found in adenosine phosphates AMP, ADP and ATP, and in your DNA and RNA). When the liquids drain, the acidic environment results in coagulation of the casein into a gel. The gel results in sustained, slow release of amino acids into the blood stream which lasts up to 7 hours. This is ideal for anti-catabolism (prevention of cellular breakdown) in muscle.

Skullaway mentioned cheese. Chymosin is the very same enzyme they use to make cheese.

The adult human intestines cannot handle large amounts of casein protein. That is why human breast milk is as low as 10% casein. Too much paracasein / paracasein HCl IS extremely hard to digest and doesn't get digested properly.

[SwiftyX]

The adult human intestines cannot handle large amounts of casein protein. That is why human breast milk is as low as 10% casein. Too much paracasein / paracasein HCl IS extremely hard to digest and doesn't get digested properly.

Do you have reference to back this up? I just ran a search on pubmed and medline and nothing relevant came about.

[ives]

This is a serious question, so please don't think I'm being ignorant or ludicrous in my concern.

I remember in science class as a youngster that if we added some vinegar to milk and let it set and then filter out the milk we would be left with a nontoxic adhesive. If you don't believe me, you could feel free to try it yourself. My question is, do you think casein protein powder could possibly be bad for our digestive tracts considering this fact? Sure, we don't mix our casein powder with vinegar, but this revelation seems concerning to me.

Can this be part of the reason why casein protein takes so long for our bodies to digest, because it is a substance possibly not suited to be ingested by the human body?

I would love to read some scientific research on this matter if someone has any at their disposal. I would be equally interested in some informed and educated responses, as well. Please utilize reasonable logic and rational or, even better, scientific conclusions to argue your view on this matter. In other words, don't just say yes or no.

Unless you also think whole--as in, complete liquid milk instead of whey/casein, not necessarily full-fat--milk is a health threat (do you?), I don't think there's a case for one of the components of milk being a health threat.

[MikeK46]

The adult human intestines cannot handle large amounts of casein protein. That is why human breast milk is as low as 10% casein. Too much paracasein / paracasein HCl IS extremely hard to digest and doesn't get digested properly.

Any reason why this would apply to casein (breast milk is 20-40% btw) and not everything else? The intestines will not efficiently digest anything in extremely large amounts as. There is limited space in the GI tract and a limited quantity of enzyme-containing digestive secretions to efficiently digest anything in extremely large doses before it is expelled.

[rhizome]

Any reason why this would apply to casein (breast milk is 20-40% btw) and not everything else? The intestines will not efficiently digest anything in extremely large amounts as. There is limited space in the GI tract and a limited quantity of enzyme-containing digestive secretions to efficiently digest anything in extremely large doses before it is expelled.

Human breast like has been measured to be as low as 10% AND the micelles are much smaller than that of cow milk. Comparing human milk to cow milk is fundamentally flawed. Nothing else forms digestive enzyme resistant paracasein, that's why it doesn't.

[AVOJAMACADA]

For the simple record ,humans(and every animal) arent meant to drink milk beyond infancy.Also were not meant to drink the milk of another species of animal.Humans are the only species that does either of these.

Its Somewhat relevent to this topic..j.us sayin for what its worth.

[On Fire]

For the simple record ,humans(and every animal) arent meant to drink milk beyond infancy.Also were not meant to drink the milk of another species of animal.Humans are the only species that does either of these.

Its Somewhat relevent to this topic..j.us sayin for what its worth.

K stop please. Lets not have this argument in the middle of this thread. Totally off topic.

Human's are also the only species that reads, writes, researches chemistry, etc etc. You are not the authority that can tell the world what they should or should not be drinking.