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  1. #1
    Registered User JinNC's Avatar
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    BCAA's Before Workout, During or After..?

    I'm a bit confused. Some product directions say take the BCAA's before and after workout. Yet, some of the most popular intra workout supp's have BCAA's in them for consumption during workout.

    I have a tub of ON BCAA powder and have been mixing one serving with gatorade for during workout. When is the best time to use BCAA?

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Registered BroScientist quank's Avatar
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    i prefer before and after.
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  3. #3
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    Here's how to optimally leverage w/BCAA's etc.:

    BCAA's are best consumed in a powder format, in doses of at least 20g. Suggest Xtend or like product. These should be consumed with a fast acting carb (i.e. dextrose/vitargo in at least a 2-1 ratio with either some EAA's or a scoop of fast acting whey, ideally with some di-tri peptides. These are research proven to boost nitrogen retention, spike blood amino acid levels and be absorbed faster vs. intact (whole) proteins and even isolated amino acids themselves.

    Take care to ensure a 2:1 (minimum) simple carb to protein ratio in order for blood insulin levels to elevate. The carbs will be burned for fuel/stored as glycogen "sparing" the amino acids to repair/build muscle.

    Sip prior to, during and immediately post workout.

    You can get fancy with all sorts of glucogenic amino acids, glucose disposal agents etc. but those are the basics.
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    My post reflects only my opinion and is in no way considered required practice - in whole or in part. Specific medical advice should be obtained from a licensed health care practitioner PRIOR to beginning ANY new diet, exercise, supplementation or training program.
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  4. #4
    Registered User stang808's Avatar
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    im also using ON BCAA 5000 powder and drink it when ever i drink my protien. Usually in the morning, post workout, and before bed.
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  5. #5
    Registered User fujindemon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Here's how to optimally leverage w/BCAA's etc.:

    BCAA's are best consumed in a powder format, in doses of at least 20g. Suggest Xtend or like product. These should be consumed with a fast acting carb (i.e. dextrose/vitargo in at least a 2-1 ratio with either some EAA's or a scoop of fast acting whey, ideally with some di-tri peptides. These are research proven to boost nitrogen retention, spike blood amino acid levels and be absorbed faster vs. intact (whole) proteins and even isolated amino acids themselves.

    Take care to ensure a 2:1 (minimum) simple carb to protein ratio in order for blood insulin levels to elevate. The carbs will be burned for fuel/stored as glycogen "sparing" the amino acids to repair/build muscle.

    Sip prior to, during and immediately post workout.

    You can get fancy with all sorts of glucogenic amino acids, glucose disposal agents etc. but those are the basics.
    This^^.
    Listen to MixBut when the ON BCAA is gone, get some Watermelon Xtend.
    Your taste buds will thank you.
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  6. #6
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    I don't know about BCAAs vs EAAs but I guess they functionallity may be somewhat the same.

    In any case thing is there may not be studies where they have happened to tested BCAAs using various dosages and timings and so on and hence the various ideas and recommendations.

    EAAs before is better than after.
    (AFAIK:_no****ingsmiley_)
    It's unknown whatever EAAs before AND after is better than just before.
    It's unknown whatever EAAs during is just as good as before.

    I would speculate that BCAAs may have more benefits if available during the workout (as in before) rather than after since EAAs is that way. But is during the workout better than just before? Or worse? No idea.

    It's peak in amino acid concentrations which gives the results so it may be a bad idea to sip it for 2 hours vs just getting it all in in one go.


    Personally I take 10-15 gram EAA before, 7-14 gram BCAA during with Xtend and most often nothing after but I guess I could take some more EAA or protein.

    No special reason for that except I know the timing of the EAAs is the best of the ones tried, the amounts is plenty enough and Xtend tastes nice so if I can sip it while I'm at the gym why not
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  7. #7
    Chef Bob The Solution's Avatar
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    4 Scoops of Xtend intra-workout: The study to back up the claims:

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  8. #8
    FDA infiltrator aliquis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    4 Scoops of Xtend intra-workout: The study to back up the claims:
    It only says "4 scoops intra workout works", not "4 scoops intra workout is the best."

    Who knows if 2 would had been worse, 6 any better, before or after as good, worse or better.

    Edit: Eventually it could even be worse with more or more often ..
    Last edited by aliquis; 04-02-2010 at 05:45 AM.
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  9. #9
    Registered User snorkelman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    4 Scoops of Xtend intra-workout: The study to back up the claims:

    That's just the poster presentation of the study. As far as I know, the full text of that study is still not published.

    As for my answer to OP's question, when you are on a cut and for whatever reason can not get in adequate protein. Otherwise, the only study in existence that shows free form BCAA produces more optimal results over protein-bound BCAA for bodybuilding purposes is that Xtend study by Stoppani.

    As Alan Aragon says, "Unreplicated/unpublished company-sponsored results constitute weak evidence."


    Here is a 3 minute video of Stoppani, the clapper-user, explaining his study.

    http://www.muscleandfitness.com/bcaa/videos/81
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  10. #10
    Chef Bob The Solution's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aliquis View Post
    It only says "4 scoops intra workout works", not "4 scoops intra workout is the best."

    Who knows if 2 would had been worse, 6 any better, before or after as good, worse or better.

    Edit: Eventually it could even be worse with more or more often ..
    Xtend is now Scientifically Proven Two Times More Effective than Whey Protein!

    The first supplement ever proven to double your fat loss, double your muscle gain and double your strength when compared to whey protein!


    Has Xtend Made Whey Protein Obsolete?

    In a groundbreaking, double blind independent study led by Jim Stoppani, PhD, Scivation Xtend was scientifically proven to be 2 times more effective than Whey Protein. The Xtend subjects experienced 9lbs of lean muscle growth in 8 weeks. That is 2 times more than the whey protein group. The Xtend subjects lost 2 times more fat than the whey protein group. The Xtend subjects more than doubled their strength gains over the whey protein group. Imagine naturally gaining 9lbs of lean mass, losing 4 pounds of bodyfat and experiencing a massive increase in strength gains in just 8 weeks!

    All of these groups were on the EXACT SAME diet and training programs provided by Jim Stoppani, PhD along with Chuck Rudolph, MEd, RD and Team Scivation (www.TeamScivation.com).

    There you have it. Xtend is scientifically proven in a controlled study to be better than whey for lean mass growth and to lead to significant LEAN MASS GAINS and FAT LOSS! No other supplement can claim this!

    The bottom line is that if you can afford only one supplement, Xtend is the only supplement you need. Xtend has made whey and every other supplement obsolete.

    The groups and the results:

    Quoted from Jim Stoppani, PhD

    "The Xtend guys dropped their body fat % by 2%, gained 9 pounds of lean body weight (I call that muscle!), increased their bench press by about 15 pounds and squat by 25 pounds!

    The Whey group dropped their percent body fat by 1%, gained 5 pounds of lean body weight, increased their bench press by about 5 pounds (7 pounds) and squat by about 10 pounds (11 pounds).

    The Gatorade group dropped their percent body fat by less than 1%, gained 3 pounds of lean body weight, increased their bench press by almost 5 pounds (4 pounds) and squat by almost 10 pounds (8 pounds)

    I round up the bench press and squat weight because you can't increase bar weight in reality by anything other than 5 pound increments."

    "The Xtend group lost an average of 4 pounds of body fat.

    The whey group lost and average of 2 pounds of body fat.

    Gatorade group lost 1 pound of body fat."


    When Will it be Presented and published?

    Dr. Stoppani is going to present the study at this year's NSCA (National Strength and Conditioning Association) meeting in July. Then it will be submitted for publishing through various journals.

    Training

    Training periodization was:

    Week 0: Baseline testing
    Weeks 1-2: 4-5 reps
    Weeks 3-4: 6-7 reps
    Weeks 5-6: 8-9 reps
    Weeks 7-8: 10-11 reps
    Week 9: Final testing

    The Diet

    Designed by Chuck and Team Scivation at a 35/35/30 P/C/F ratio. All diets for each group were controlled and exactly the same. this was a hypercaloric diet. Per Chuck:

    When I was doing the macro calculations, I used the Harris Benedict Equation with an activity factor related to the training program that was designed to GAIN LEAN BODY MASS, there fore these subjects were all in a HYPERcaloric state. Protein grams were figured out first with them being 2.2-2.4g/kg body weight. Due to the load and repetitions of the training program and the fact that the study was based on 10 reps (week 0) then 10 reps (Week 9), not a 1 rep max test, the typical macro ratio for each subject to gain LBM and prevent/lose bf was 30% Carb, 35% Protein and 35% Fat. The goal of the nutrition plan was to priovide calories for Lean Body Mass Gain yet BALANCE INSULIN levels with each meal. Theory being, if you balance insulin you significantly reduce any chances of storing body fat, better yet lose BF.

    Each subject had the option to chose from the following protein, carbohydrate and fat sources that were already weighed properly for them. They simply had to physically weigh foods and eat:

    Proteins: Egg white, NF cottage cheese, grilled boneless.skinless chicken breast, 96% Fat free LEAN sirloin/ground turkey, tuna canned in water, fresh halibut/tilapia.

    Carbohydrates: Oatmeal (plain), brown rice, sweet potato/yam, whole grain pasta and whole grain bread, broccoli, asparagus, Lettuce/tomato/Cucumber, green beans, spinach, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries and bananas

    Fats: Almonds, peanut butter, avocado, light salad dressing, Olive oil, walnuts


    The Groups
    12 per group=36 total
    - males 18 - 32 years old
    - minimum of 2 years consistent training
    - currently not taking any supplements other than regular vitamin/minerals and regular protein shake
    - Average age ended up being 26 years old.

    The Parameters

    Groups were:
    1) 4 Scoops Xtend = 14 g BCAAs (During Training)
    2) 28 grams Whey (During Training)
    3) 28 grams Carbs as Gatorade (During Training) = Equal calories as the whey protein


    There you have it. Xtend is the supplement that you NEED during training!
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  11. #11
    Registered User snorkelman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    There you have it. Xtend is the supplement that you NEED during training!
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Xtend is now Scientifically Proven Two Times More Effective than Whey Protein!

    ...

    There you have it. Xtend is the supplement that you NEED during training!
    I didn't asked for the study and should neg rep for the spam.

    I don't give a **** about the study, as said it only show that it's beneficial, not WHEN or HOW it's the most beneficial. Learn to read.


    Edit: I already buy the crap, you don't need to sell anything to me, if anything it only makes me want to buy the product less because I hate spamming company reps who can't listen, care, shut up or contribute anything useful.

    I already take EAAs and Xtend, I take more amino-acids than in the study. I'm not convinced the additional BCAAs from Xtend will prove any benefit whatsoever and even less that they would provide a benefit over same amount of additional EAAs. But I doubt it make things worse, Xtend taste delicious and I can afford it so it doesn't matter much. Probably a waste though.
    Last edited by aliquis; 04-02-2010 at 06:24 AM.
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