Ultra High Rep Sets (50-100 rep range)

[Conversekidz]

I read this on a rating site.

this guy is named ironwarrior and he does super high rep sets as part of his work out.

Here is what he said



"Ahh!! Welcome to my world. The benefits are enormous as you will see increased strength, vascularity, muscle fullness, and muscle endurance.

The #1 reason for the 50-rep set is to work the slow twitch muscle fibers. Slow twitch muscles rarely come into play during traditional training in the rep range of 1-20. You usually need to exceed around 35 reps in a constant controlled motion to cause hypertrophic stimulus of the slow twitch fibers.

Speaking of the motion, it should be the same speed throughout the set, with the last few reps being very difficult. When I do the set of 50 on squat, I maintain the same moderate rate throughout the set until I fail or reach my goal. This is key for stimulating the slow twitch muscles.

NOTE: of ALL the bodyparts to use this methodology, squat is FOREMOST. You will see a change literally overnight. Squat is the most anabolic exercise and megareps sets of squats work miracles. I have tested this many times with a wide selection of people and those that stick with it are amazed at how they get stronger in all lifts from the mega squat reps.

Speaking of the squats, the guideline is 1/2 your bodyweight with depth to be 3/4 to full parallel. You can go deeper but it's not necessary and some people have prexisting joing conditions that prevent excessive depth. When you can complete the set with 1/2 BW, increase the reps up to 100 or increase the weight.

In the past, I've done 135 for 100 reps, 225 for 50 reps, and 135 for 50 reps below parallel.

Currently, I got away from them just for something different and regret it as I look flat. I'm starting back up today."

Anyone ever try something like this? I was thinking of trying it today since its leg day for me. Put on a lower weight on the bar and go to 50 reps.

[Sonny]

It may sound petty, but I'd have to see some visual results from somebody who has had success with such a method.

[MiloMan]

Simply put, it's a bunch of crap.

[massmatters]

Originally posted by Conversekidz
Slow twitch muscles rarely come into play during traditional training in the rep range of 1-20.

fibers are recruited in the following order:
slow , intermediate , fast

you don't just skip over to the fast twitch fibers when you're handling a heavy load. the fast twich fibers are being recruited over the already recruited slow and intermediate twitch fibers. so high reps for slow twitch and low reps for fast twitch is a fallacy.

[midian]

i don't know about that, but when i was just a real young teenager with my 5 kilo dumbels i could do 100 reps, now i'm way stronger in the biceps but i just don't have that endurance anymore

[Sonny]

There are some studies in Japan that have actually shown that there might be up to 30-40 different muscle fibers in the human body, not just slow, intermediate and fast.

[fops310]

Originally posted by Sonny
There are some studies in Japan that have actually shown that there might be up to 30-40 different muscle fibers in the human body, not just slow, intermediate and fast.

References please.

[garraeth]

I like to do high reps (50-100) for calves in between sets of other exercises on days other than calf days. Partly because I need the help w/ the calves.

So I'll just stand wherever I'm working out at the end of the set and push out 50-100 reps. I think it works...my calves are a lot stronger and somewhat bigger.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by fops310
References please.

Don't have any! Just something I read on Charles Poliquin's site, I'll try to find it! I'm not saying it's totally true, but it did sound interesting.

[Kane Fan]

I don't understand
how can slow twitch fibers be recruited first?
when I read about muscle fibers I've read that fast twich muscle fibers are called that because they contract faster (and harder)
so how can slow twitch muscle fibers be recruited first?
even if slow twitch fibers are activated first
he may have ment (postulating here) that you need X reps to get the slow twitch fiberse nough stimulous to hypertrophy

anyway I've used high ass rep training before
I like it fine but I have to admit, the sets get to be kind of intimidating after awhile
I remember when I was about to do a 50-70 rep set I would try to find reasons to avoid it...
I didn't do the reps very slowly tho I did them rather on the fast side
well
that's my input

[AMG]

I train Forearms, Calves and Traps with 25-100 reps all the time. Works great.

[IronMyke]

Originally posted by Kane Fan
I don't understand
how can slow twitch fibers be recruited first?
when I read about muscle fibers I've read that fast twich muscle fibers are called that because they contract faster (and harder)
so how can slow twitch muscle fibers be recruited first?

Slow twitch are always recruited first.They are recruited under lighter loads.As the set progresses, you begin to turn on more fast twitch fibers. If you do explosive movements, where the concentric portion of the movement is performed as quickly as possible, you will recruit fast twitch fibers on every rep.

[midian]

Originally posted by IronMyke
Slow twitch are always recruited first.They are recruited under lighter loads.As the set progresses, you begin to turn on more fast twitch fibers. If you do explosive movements, where the concentric portion of the movement is performed as quickly as possible, you will recruit fast twitch fibers on every rep.

did your happen to read the sticky in the powerlifting section ?? or where did you got that info from ??

[IronMyke]

I am taking an ISSA personal trainer course.Ilearned it from the text.When you perform the concentric portion of the lift as quickly as possible you are forcing the recruitment of all muscle fibers. When performing it more slowly you are recruiting a smaller percentage of your fibers.Only enough fibers to move it at that pace.This one bit of info has worked wonders with my bench press strength.

[midian]

Originally posted by IronMyke
I am taking an ISSA personal trainer course. Learned it from the text.

i'm still kinda sceptic though, i really don't see any logic in it

[IronMyke]

I've edited my last post sense then. Maybe that explanation will help.

[phreak]

Originally posted by midian
i'm still kinda sceptic though, i really don't see any logic in it

The logic is: Slow-twitch fibers are not very strong, but they recover fast. Fast-twitch fibers are strong, but recover slowly. It is evolutionary in your body's best interest to fatigue itself as little as possible. That is why the fast-twitch fibers only come into play when they absolutely have to, i.e., at maximum or near-maximum percentages or maximum/near-maximum acceleration/deceleration.

[robefc]

Originally posted by IronMyke
I am taking an ISSA personal trainer course.Ilearned it from the text.When you perform the concentric portion of the lift as quickly as possible you are forcing the recruitment of all muscle fibers. When performing it more slowly you are recruiting a smaller percentage of your fibers.Only enough fibers to move it at that pace.This one bit of info has worked wonders with my bench press strength.

I always thought that, although you can use greater weight when performing the concentric movement quickly, the muscle will be placed under greater stress by moving the weight steadily using no momentum? i usually 2 sec for concentric and 4 for negative, would you advise using a slow eccentric and then an explosive concentric movement? On some movements, such as the lat pull down, I know for a fact i can use more weight by pulling down as quickly as possible but that the bottom part of the lift is benefitting from the momentum i've generated in the easier top half of the lift. By going more slowly I thought I was forcing the muscle to be pulling that weight right the way throough and therefore stimulating more muscle fibers?

[IronMyke]

Are you looking to improve your strength or size? If you are looking to improve your size, it would be best to train to stimulate all types of muscle fibers.Fast reps, slow reps, high reps,and low reps are all important to improve in size. I wouldn't recommend 50-100 reps for any improvement in size though.

If you want to improve your power, power= force x distance/time.
So you want to move the weight through the concentric portion of the lift as quickly as possible with as much force as possible.
The power lifting forum has quite a bit of useful info if this is your goal.

[Kane Fan]

I don't get it tho
arn't you saying that your using slow twitch fibers during the warmup basically
I'm talking about in a given set
if the weight is heavy enough for fast twtich fibers to be taking over, how can slow twtich fibers start working then let fast twitch take over
dosn't that suggest that slow twitch fibers could handle the load?

[sqweezer]

As a mentzer man or hit trainer, i am up for other ideas of how to train, but normally just one set. I did the bar on the bench once for a hundred reps and it was great. This type of training usually works because its a shock to the body, and there are different muscle types but not alot of muscle in the body for this type of training , but there is enought to do it from time to time. I do it about 4 times a year. a total body workout of high reps. plus it helps clean out the body, i feel healed up after doing it.

[oark]

Originally posted by Kane Fan
I don't get it tho
arn't you saying that your using slow twitch fibers during the warmup basically
I'm talking about in a given set
if the weight is heavy enough for fast twtich fibers to be taking over, how can slow twtich fibers start working then let fast twitch take over
dosn't that suggest that slow twitch fibers could handle the load?

you alway use slow. even in explosive movements. the fast don't take over, they simply join in.

[oark]

Originally posted by Sonny
There are some studies in Japan that have actually shown that there might be up to 30-40 different muscle fibers in the human body, not just slow, intermediate and fast.

I don't know where from, but I've heard that there are a bunch of different fiber types as opposed to just three. Don't have time to look it up now.

[robefc]

Originally posted by IronMyke
Are you looking to improve your strength or size? If you are looking to improve your size, it would be best to train to stimulate all types of muscle fibers.Fast reps, slow reps, high reps,and low reps are all important to improve in size. I wouldn't recommend 50-100 reps for any improvement in size though.

If you want to improve your power, power= force x distance/time.
So you want to move the weight through the concentric portion of the lift as quickly as possible with as much force as possible.
The power lifting forum has quite a bit of useful info if this is your goal.

Thanks for the response mate, I'm looking to increase size so will take on board what you've said and vary my rep speed/numbers a bit more, I also think traning for power or strength can also have a positive effect on size by allowing you to lift more weight so i might try traning like that for a bit then returning to slower reps

[IronMyke]

Originally posted by oark
[B. the fast don't take over, they simply join in. [/B]

Bump on that.

[hawkpfc2]

the slow twitch work but they don't get tired. in order for them to hypertrophy, you need to work them to at least like 30 reps. now I wouldn't do this very often just because they do not have all that much hypertrophy potential but in a muscle like the soleus which is an average of 90% slow twitch and in some people are 98%, obviously you have the potential to get significant gains this way.

[Kane Fan]

fast twtich fibers contract faster
slow twitch mucsles start contracting sooner
maybe fast twitch muscles are limited by slow twitch fibers strength
it might benifit strength athletes to do slow twtich specific training now and again
to get more bang for thier buck out of thier fast twitch fibers?
I'm going to post something like that in the Pl/Strongman forum
you guys are welcome to go there if you like

[AngelRamirez01]

Ok. The thing is:
Stupidly high rep sets do build muscle but only when you take them to COMPLETE FAILURE.
This is because the fast twitch muscle fibers are recruited last due to the small blood flow compared to slow fibers.

Let's see: a low-rep-heavy-weight set. About 3 to 5 reps. Also known as "Strength sets". You can achieve strength faster because you are training fast twitch muscle fibers mostly.

Let's understand that: FTMF (fast twitch muscle fibers) have a low blood flow, that is why they becaume exhausted first.
And STMF (slow twitch muscle fibers) have a really good blood flow, that is why they can endure and do a lot of reps.

You can do high reps with a low weight because?... You are training STMF (responsible for endurance due to great blood flow). But a really heavy weight.. You can do low reps because?.. You are training FTMF (which reach failure faster due to low blood flow).

FTMF are recruited for strength mostly because this fibers tend to be bigger and thicker compared to STMF.

For a better understanding: Muay Thai, 100m Sprints. = FTMF | Marathons, cycling = STMF.

FTMF = Explosiveness, force, strength.
STMF = Endurance, blood flow (pump).

So even if you do stupidly high reps you WILL cause hypertrophy (build muscle) but ONLY if you take those sets to COMPLETE FAILURE, what will take long cause as we learned STMF are built for endurance and they have to fatigue so that the body starts recruiting the FTMF.

I hope I explained it well.

My references: I'm a PT student. (So a lot of books)

[BeastlyBro]

Ok. The thing is:
Stupidly high rep sets do build muscle but only when you take them to COMPLETE FAILURE.
This is because the fast twitch muscle fibers are recruited last due to the small blood flow compared to slow fibers.

Let's see: a low-rep-heavy-weight set. About 3 to 5 reps. Also known as "Strength sets". You can achieve strength faster because you are training fast twitch muscle fibers mostly.

Let's understand that: FTMF (fast twitch muscle fibers) have a low blood flow, that is why they becaume exhausted first.
And STMF (slow twitch muscle fibers) have a really good blood flow, that is why they can endure and do a lot of reps.

You can do high reps with a low weight because?... You are training STMF (responsible for endurance due to great blood flow). But a really heavy weight.. You can do low reps because?.. You are training FTMF (which reach failure faster due to low blood flow).

FTMF are recruited for strength mostly because this fibers tend to be bigger and thicker compared to STMF.

For a better understanding: Muay Thai, 100m Sprints. = FTMF | Marathons, cycling = STMF.

FTMF = Explosiveness, force, strength.
STMF = Endurance, blood flow (pump).

So even if you do stupidly high reps you WILL cause hypertrophy (build muscle) but ONLY if you take those sets to COMPLETE FAILURE, what will take long cause as we learned STMF are built for endurance and they have to fatigue so that the body starts recruiting the FTMF.

I hope I explained it well.

My references: I'm a PT student. (So a lot of books)

Strong 10+ years bump.

[NewLevel84]

Rich Piana is known to do this. So is Andreas Cahling.
I've seen good results with it myself. My reps range anywhere from 10-15 and upwards of 25-50
Up to 100 for leg movements.