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  1. #1
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Can step-ups and lunges be added to rippetoes after a few months...

    Right, I've got around 3 months to get back into shap for school athletics and I'm really trying to beat my PB in the 100m, which was ****e.

    I'm asking can other leg work be added once or twice a week to Rips?

    I'm going through lots of different scenarios for workouts on my laptop (the wonderful side affect of Asperger's Syndrome ) and at the moment I'm most concerned about overtraining my body.

    My idea is something like this)

    WO 1)
    Step-Ups - 2x5 (change legs after one set is finished)
    Back Squats - 3x5
    Bench Press - 3x5
    Deadlift - 1x5
    Dips - 2x8

    WO 2)
    Step-Ups - 2x5
    Front Squats - 3x5
    Military Press - 3x5
    Power Clean - 3x5
    Pull Ups - 2x8

    Calf, shin and ab accessory work, just 3 weighted sets of 5 for each.

    Or will that be overtraining my body? I really want to avoid overtraining, as I've got about 6 weeks before we first start atheletics, than 10 weeks till sports day.

    Any help?
    Last edited by Willhu12; 03-29-2010 at 06:58 AM.
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    bump
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User james0566's Avatar
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    dont do it
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  4. #4
    Registered User ModernPatriot's Avatar
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    Don't try to tweak a world class program until you're more experienced in lifting. Concentrate on your diet and keep up with the program and the gains will come.
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  5. #5
    Chubby Chasing Bait! MDPower75's Avatar
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    Starting Strength also does not have Front Squats in it.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MDPower75 View Post
    Starting Strength also does not have Front Squats in it.
    My apologies, I was tired when typing that and had been reading Keethnaabs thread (the bit about intermediates) at 1AM, I must have got mixed up.
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ModernPatriot View Post
    Don't try to tweak a world class program until you're more experienced in lifting. Concentrate on your diet and keep up with the program and the gains will come.
    I've no intention of "making gains" if you mean put on bodyweight. I've intentions of running a sub-11.7 100m time (my school record for U15s). The step ups for me serve two purposes.
    1. Warming up the quads before I squat (I messed up the order)
    2. Exploding out of the blocks
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by james0566 View Post
    dont do it
    Care to give a reason/explanation?

    I'm not asking to put in 500 reps of bicep curls per workout, nor am i asking if I can piss about with cables for 5 different lat exercises. I'm not asking if I can up my volume to astronimcal levels nor am I asking if I can add 6 different bench angles.

    I'm asking if i can add a set of step ups (I consider step ups to be "half" an exercise because the muscles are worked independantly).
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    I'm not asking to put in 500 reps of bicep curls per workout
    I've love to see this as part of someone's workout routine, lol.

    I can understand what you're talking about though. I get very tempted myself to throw in exercices. If you feel undertrained, just throw on more weight until the sets become very challenging. That's all I can recommend really, Mr Mark Rippetoe would slap me if I said anything otherwise.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Smokin-Whale View Post
    I've love to see this as part of someone's workout routine, lol.

    I can understand what you're talking about though. I get very tempted myself to throw in exercices. If you feel undertrained, just throw on more weight until the sets become very challenging. That's all I can recommend really, Mr Mark Rippetoe would slap me if I said anything otherwise.
    can I still use them to warm up?
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    Care to give a reason/explanation?
    the extra work will cause you to stall much faster....... not what you want
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  12. #12
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    Just stick with the program. More does not equal better.
    GOMAD!
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  13. #13
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    i agree with everyone else, but if you really have to do some extra work like step ups or lunges, do it once a week after you finish the prescribed workout, not before you Squat.
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  14. #14
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sabonis224 View Post
    i agree with everyone else, but if you really have to do some extra work like step ups or lunges, do it once a week after you finish the prescribed workout, not before you Squat.
    What about warm up sets, etc? Could I do step ups with, just my bodyweight for like 8 reps to warm up?
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    I don't think ANYONE has read my OP, so I will explain it in plain English.

    I am NOT trying to add more Bodybuilding volume, nor am I trying to make the statement "more equals better". I am trying to improve Leg Explosion out of the starting blocks when I sprint.

    I've said before, NO I don't want a ridiculous volume increase and in all honesty I've read the Rips thing by Keethnaab, he said give it a go for 3-4 months, then start messing with it.

    Unlike most other people who mess with it, I'm actualy adding more leg work and I'm bascially adding in 2 sets of quad work for a sport specific reason. Not 50 bicep curls or tricep push downs.

    Now my rant is over, everyone have a nice spring break
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Oz brah wick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    I've no intention of "making gains" if you mean put on bodyweight. I've intentions of running a sub-11.7 100m time (my school record for U15s).
    I'm not sure if you've seen world class sprinters but from memory they're all bulky and powerful looking.

    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    I am NOT trying to add more Bodybuilding volume, nor am I trying to make the statement "more equals better". I am trying to improve Leg Explosion out of the starting blocks when I sprint.
    If you want to increase your explosiveness out of the blocks then SS is the right way to go. The program may seem easy at the start, but I assure you it gets fu<king hard once you start adding weight. So basically as the others have said I wouldn't add anything to it, you're already squatting 3 days week, that's plenty imo.

    Edit: I just realised you said "can I add leg exercises after a few months on SS". Are you crazy? The program should be beating your ass HARD every workout especially on squats after a few months. I couldn't imagine wanting to add anything more.. wow
    Last edited by wick; 03-30-2010 at 04:32 AM.
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  17. #17
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Uh oh, maybe I'm not going heavy enough on my squats then, because I rarely (if ever) get DOMS and only get them from ednurance events (school athletics runs, rugby matches, etc.)

    As a matter of fact, when I was a total n00b I did a much worse routine with plyos at the beginning, either box squatting or deading at the end of each WO, and I didn't get DOMS.

    Does this mean I'm going too light on my sets?
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Certified Football Nut Bamma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    Uh oh, maybe I'm not going heavy enough on my squats then, because I rarely (if ever) get DOMS and only get them from ednurance events (school athletics runs, rugby matches, etc.)

    As a matter of fact, when I was a total n00b I did a much worse routine with plyos at the beginning, either box squatting or deading at the end of each WO, and I didn't get DOMS.

    Does this mean I'm going too light on my sets?
    Are you sure you are following SS at all? How can you be asking these questions if you have done your reading? SS is a progression program where you should be adding weight to your squats each time you lift. You may have started too light, but I would bet you are not following the progression protocol at all. Ya know how I know? Because of your reference to "making gains" meaning putting on bodyweight. Starting strength is not about body weight or bodybuilding. It is about increasing strength. Some added body weight and more muscle are going to come with that (assuming you are eating correctly), but that is not the goal of the program.

    As for your question "Can step-ups/lunges be added to the SS program?": Sure, you can add anything to any program you like. You can also add ketchup to your ice cream if you want, but I don't recommend it. Just understand something here, once you change a program, you are no longer following that program. Too many people start a program like SS or Starr's 5x5, then make some changes and come back here to bitch that the program did not work for them. Well guess what? Your bastardized version did not work, but you did not give the program as written a fair shot.

    Now, I am just speculating here, but I think you need to go back to the beginning and read the SS book and learn what the hell it is he is trying to get you to do. If you decide this is the program for you, then follow it and trust that it will work. Until you have a lot more time under the barbell, don't go thinking you are smarter than Mark Rippetoe and can make a better program than he can. However, it is also possible that SS may just be the wrong program for you entirely. If that is the case, then part ways with SS and do your new program. At some point, you may want to come back and do SS later, but you again will need to follow the actual program.
    Last edited by Bamma; 03-30-2010 at 06:07 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    I don't think ANYONE has read my OP, so I will explain it in plain English.

    I am NOT trying to add more Bodybuilding volume, nor am I trying to make the statement "more equals better". I am trying to improve Leg Explosion out of the starting blocks when I sprint.

    I've said before, NO I don't want a ridiculous volume increase and in all honesty I've read the Rips thing by Keethnaab, he said give it a go for 3-4 months, then start messing with it.

    Unlike most other people who mess with it, I'm actualy adding more leg work and I'm bascially adding in 2 sets of quad work for a sport specific reason. Not 50 bicep curls or tricep push downs.

    Now my rant is over, everyone have a nice spring break
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  20. #20
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bamma View Post
    Are you sure you are following SS at all? How can you be asking these questions if you have done your reading? SS is a progression program where you should be adding weight to your squats each time you lift. You may have started too light, but I would bet you are not following the progression protocol at all. Ya know how I know? Because of your reference to "making gains" meaning putting on bodyweight. Starting strength is not about body weight or bodybuilding. It is about increasing strength. Some added body weight and more muscle are going to come with that (assuming you are eating correctly), but that is not the goal of the program.

    As for your question "Can step-ups/lunges be added to the SS program?": Sure, you can add anything to any program you like. You can also add ketchup to your ice cream if you want, but I don't recommend it. Just understand something here, once you change a program, you are no longer following that program. Too many people start a program like SS or Starr's 5x5, then make some changes and come back here to bitch that the program did not work for them. Well guess what? Your bastardized version did not work, but you did not give the program as written a fair shot.

    Now, I am just speculating here, but I think you need to go back to the beginning and read the SS book and learn what the hell it is he is trying to get you to do. If you decide this is the program for you, then follow it and trust that it will work. Until you have a lot more time under the barbell, don't go thinking you are smarter than Mark Rippetoe and can make a better program than he can. However, it is also possible that SS may just be the wrong program for you entirely. If that is the case, then part ways with SS and do your new program. At some point, you may want to come back and do SS later, but you again will need to follow the actual program.
    Even on my "batsardised" program, I was able to make linear barbell progression (yes, I do know how the f*cking program works). I do not own the SS book as I cannot find a place to buy it in the UK.

    When I said making gains, I was using the same context as the poster before me (his refernces to diet and his tone seemed like he was replying to one of those bored teens who think this is all about muscle mass).

    I've never once said I'm smarter than Mark Rippetoe, and I've also mentioned I've got Asperger's Syndrome in my first post.

    I've already stated that despite squats of around 66% of my bodyweight (the max I can handle bellow parralell, yes I also do that, unlike most other teens) I VERY rarely get DOMS.

    Once again, I've read Keethnaabs thread and the message was clear "If you want to add 'x' exercises, wait 3-4 months so you have a solid conditioning base".
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Just weighed myself, I've actualy gone from 14 stone 10 to 14 stone 4, with strength increase.

    I've gone from 20kg on my squat to 65kg over about 4 months

    So yes, I do follow the program.
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
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  22. #22
    Registered User braden101's Avatar
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    If sprinting is your goal, and you think the step ups and lunges will help you with that, go for it. See how it works for you.

    If you think it will work, give it a shot. Make your gains. Run your 100. Shove it in everyones faces and show them that SS is not law lol
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  23. #23
    Registered User Willhu12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by braden101 View Post
    If sprinting is your goal, and you think the step ups and lunges will help you with that, go for it. See how it works for you.

    If you think it will work, give it a shot. Make your gains. Run your 100. Shove it in everyones faces and show them that SS is not law lol
    That's most certinaly not what I mean, I'm not trying to show off guys. I just want some kind of athletic achivement.
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Registered User braden101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    That's most certinaly not what I mean, I'm not trying to show off guys. I just want some kind of athletic achivement.
    yeah i understand that, i meant what i said in the most serious unsarcastic way lol
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  25. #25
    Certified Football Nut Bamma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    Just weighed myself, I've actualy gone from 14 stone 10 to 14 stone 4, with strength increase.

    I've gone from 20kg on my squat to 65kg over about 4 months

    So yes, I do follow the program.
    But wait a minute here. 65 kg is about 143 pounds or so. If you follow SS to the letter, progressing by 5 pounds each session, then you would already be at 155 pounds after 12 weeks, assuming you start with an empty bar. So, somewhere along the line, you have basically lost 4 weeks worth of progress. Now, this can happen when you get stuck and have to reset, but that is generally not expected so early in the program at the lightest weights.

    Now, this is still not bad progression, and it will be fine as long as you keep going with it. Again, like I said before, you can add whatever you want to the program, so long as you understand that once you do you are parting ways with the program and accepting that any failure to progress now falls on you and not the program. Personally, I don't care what you add to the program or take away from it. I just don't wanna see you come back here later and say "SS sucks and it did not work" when you changed it. It is entirely possible that the proposed stepups and lunges will be a benefit to you. I hope it is. SS is just one program that has one set of goals. As mentioned by braden, it is not the law.
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    Originally Posted by Bamma View Post
    But wait a minute here. 65 kg is about 143 pounds or so. If you follow SS to the letter, progressing by 5 pounds each session, then you would already be at 155 pounds after 12 weeks, assuming you start with an empty bar. So, somewhere along the line, you have basically lost 4 weeks worth of progress. Now, this can happen when you get stuck and have to reset, but that is generally not expected so early in the program at the lightest weights.

    Now, this is still not bad progression, and it will be fine as long as you keep going with it. Again, like I said before, you can add whatever you want to the program, so long as you understand that once you do you are parting ways with the program and accepting that any failure to progress now falls on you and not the program. Personally, I don't care what you add to the program or take away from it. I just don't wanna see you come back here later and say "SS sucks and it did not work" when you changed it. It is entirely possible that the proposed stepups and lunges will be a benefit to you. I hope it is. SS is just one program that has one set of goals. As mentioned by braden, it is not the law.
    The missed progression was due to a school running event and then a parents evening. Nothing more.

    And I understand what you mean when you say it's down to me, and I agree that anything I add to the program makes it my idea and not that of Mr Rippetoe, Keethnaab or anyone else who contriubted to the book/thread.
    COMPETITION BESTS:
    4kg shot - 13.70m
    5kg shot (U17) - 12.55m
    6kg shot (JUN) - 11.39m
    1.5kg discus (U17) - 32.60m
    1.75kg discus (JUN) - 29.70m
    5kg hammer (U17) - 30.49m (one turn)
    6kg hammer (JUN) - 27.03m (one turn)
    800g javelin (U17) - 20.05m

    AGE - 15

    Want a 16m 6kg throw by next year.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Certified Football Nut Bamma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    The missed progression was due to a school running event and then a parents evening. Nothing more.

    And I understand what you mean when you say it's down to me, and I agree that anything I add to the program makes it my idea and not that of Mr Rippetoe, Keethnaab or anyone else who contriubted to the book/thread.
    Ok, cool. Good job so far then. So, the program does appear to be working as prescribed. That being the case, why would you want to change? Have you yet had a chance to check your 100 times against where they were when you started the program? Has there been any improvement? Has your speed gone down? If you have seen improvement, is it enough that you think a continuation at this rate will still not be enough to reach your speed goals in time? I am just trying to get an idea why you would want to change a program that appears to be doing exactly what it is meant to do.

    Now, I will confess to being totally ignorant about what a good program would be for sprinters. I am not even sure whether SS is something a sprinter should do. I do know from personal experience, though, that SS is excellent for building strength, and I just hate to see it get messed with when I know it works. But again, that does not mean that changing it is bad for you. Could be the changes you are looking to make are perfect for what you need. Have you looked at any message boards for sprinters to see what those guys are doing? I am sure there have to be some out there. Have you checked the sports training boards here at BB.com? I know I have seen some good programs there for football players and wrestlers, but have not looked for sprinters. Maybe check over there.
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by Willhu12 View Post
    Right, I've got around 3 months to get back into shap for school athletics and I'm really trying to beat my PB in the 100m, which was ****e.

    I'm asking can other leg work be added once or twice a week to Rips?

    I'm going through lots of different scenarios for workouts on my laptop (the wonderful side affect of Asperger's Syndrome ) and at the moment I'm most concerned about overtraining my body.

    My idea is something like this)

    WO 1)
    Step-Ups - 2x5 (change legs after one set is finished)
    Back Squats - 3x5
    Bench Press - 3x5
    Deadlift - 1x5
    Dips - 2x8

    WO 2)
    Step-Ups - 2x5
    Front Squats - 3x5
    Military Press - 3x5
    Power Clean - 3x5
    Pull Ups - 2x8

    Calf, shin and ab accessory work, just 3 weighted sets of 5 for each.

    Or will that be overtraining my body? I really want to avoid overtraining, as I've got about 6 weeks before we first start atheletics, than 10 weeks till sports day.

    Any help?
    So basically you didn't really learn anything from your experience with starting strength or are you just contemplating beginning the program? Starting strength will get you stronger which in turn can make you a more powerful individual. Producing more power means you will jump higher and sprint faster. Assuming you don't just gain 70 lbs of fat during this 3 month period, putting on some solid muscle and getting stronger in conjunction with sprint/jump work will produce the results you are looking for, walking lunges with 30 lb dumbbells most likely will not.

    If you can add more legwork into your workouts, you aren't using enough weight for the main exercises.
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