How important are Pullovers??

[WildHockey]

I've always had trouble deciding on whether or not to add these to my back routine cause its so large in volume as it is. What do y'all think about this movement?

[Chesticles2]

pullovers are a great exercise.
They help stretch the chest cavity out as well as expand the ribcage to give you a more solid look. freeweight pullovers are far greater for core stability than the machined ones, but both have advantages.
Add them to your routine and you tell us in a thread how they helped and im sure a bunch of guys will learn from it!

[WildHockey]

Alright I'll throw it in the middle of my routine ontop of everything else. Thank you for the input!

[BillabongVolcom]

Cut out an exercise of your back routine then. All you really need are around 4 exercises.

Dead
Some sort of Row
Pull-up/Pull-down
Pull-overs

[ZoranM]

For some ppl its an essential part of their back routine,
while others never or rarely consider it.
Simple,like with everything else,you have to try it and see what it "does" for you.

[Chesticles2]

To spare your lower back try throwing the deads in at the end if your going heavy.
As well as pullovers I find need to be maximized at the stretching point, you really need to go deep and pull through with your elbows first to activate the lats first.
As for the #exercises and sets and reps, this is how BB volume is calculated:
16-20 sets total for a large muscle group,
works out to either 4 exercises w/5 sets or 5 exercises w/ 4 sets.
smaller muscle groups, 3-4 exercises with 4 sets will do.

[Bostongeorge617]

Pullovers are an exercise that is generally prescribed to use a moderate weight, like concentration curls or leg extensions. Focusing on the muscle contraction is the point of pullovers, whether it be for back or chest. So adding an exercise like this to your existing routine will not cause you spill over into the way-too-much zone.

[WildHockey]

My back routine has around 21 sets of high intensity work. If i add pullovers it will be 24. then i do bis. any big deal with a 6 day split on recovery?

[Daywalker75]

I've always had trouble deciding on whether or not to add these to my back routine cause its so large in volume as it is. What do y'all think about this movement?

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/...ktraining.html

^THIS^
Ive recently incorporated dumbell pullovers into my back training...I use to to the straight arm version on chest day, But after watching this Dorian yates seminar I have now scrapped it in my chest workout and do the bent arm version on my back day. Great exercise! Pure lat if you do it on a bench with bent arms..
My back routine: Weighted pull ups...Close grip pulldowns...Bent over barbell rows...Bent arm pullovers...Deadlifts

[Chesticles2]

Pullovers are an exercise that is generally prescribed to use a moderate weight, like concentration curls or leg extensions. Focusing on the muscle contraction is the point of pullovers, whether it be for back or chest. So adding an exercise like this to your existing routine will not cause you spill over into the way-too-much zone.

I have a hard time putting pullovers into the isolated exercise catagory as it does great for the chest, lats, tris, and serratus muscles...but then again Im a young trainer with maybe not as much knowledge as you, then again I do not know you and could be reading something you read out of a book that you believe is true. whats your explanation out of curiosity?

[Chesticles2]

My back routine has around 21 sets of high intensity work. If i add pullovers it will be 24. then i do bis. any big deal with a 6 day split on recovery?

I hope the diet and rest is taken seriously if 21 High Intensity training sessions are happening 6x a week!
These numbers people throw at your with how many sets to do...is ALL BASED ON FATIGUE POINTS OF THE WORKED MUSCLE GROUP...nothing else.
If your contractions are intense and your going heavy, you may finish at 19 sets one day, 20 the next, 17 the next...all depending on how your feeling. If training is so routine for you then I'd consider writing up a new split, taking a week off, then comming back hard and refreshed for super gains.

[WildHockey]

chest shoulders
back bis
traps
shoulers tris
legs
off

repeat

I do shoulders twice a week because they are lagging bad. if you have a better routine with shoulders twice a week let me know.

[Bostongeorge617]

I have a hard time putting pullovers into the isolated exercise catagory as it does great for the chest, lats, tris, and serratus muscles...but then again Im a young trainer with maybe not as much knowledge as you, then again I do not know you and could be reading something you read out of a book that you believe is true. whats your explanation out of curiosity?

Which part in particular? I am not claiming that pullovers are an isolation exercise, perhaps I should not have used concentration curls and leg extensions as examples. I used those examples to illustrate exercises where maximum contraction at the top of the movement was more important than the weight used.

[Big_Carphuna]

I love pullovers, but add them to the end of my arms day on Friday. They do hit my back, but they also hit my upper tri's and back delts hard...

[Chesticles2]

chest shoulders
back bis
traps
shoulers tris
legs
off

repeat

I do shoulders twice a week because they are lagging bad. if you have a better routine with shoulders twice a week let me know.

Ive recently switched to a 4day split that allows me to put anything i feel lagging twice a week.

This is my split:

Chest & Traps
Shoulders & Biceps
Legs & Triceps
Back & Core

This way bis and tris dont interfere with back and chest, as well as shoulders are my best bodypart and they will be slightly torn up from my chest workout, so rear delts can be focused on for perfect development.
And core always got neglected so i thought do lower back after all the rowing that day and throw in the abs as well with a circuit at the end

[Daywalker75]

There are two variations of pullovers....the straight arm version from what I know is a bit of lat, Tricep, Chest and serratus....the bent arm version is mostly lat and when you bend yr arms in the negative phase you will get a tremendous stretch in the lat muscle. Dorian explains this in the link I posted.

My spilt:
Chest/shoulders/hiit
Legs/abs
Back/arms/hiit
off
Repeat cycle but this time I train shoulders first...

My workout is flexible, If i do chest first it will consist of compound movements and shoulders will be isolation stuff....next time round I switch it and train shoulders with compounds and isolation stuff for chest, This way I can do heavy and light days....

[Chesticles2]

Which part in particular? I am not claiming that pullovers are an isolation exercise, perhaps I should not have used concentration curls and leg extensions as examples. I used those examples to illustrate exercises where maximum contraction at the top of the movement was more important than the weight used.

I just feel as long as the core is stable enough for a big load, and the shoulder joints not at risk, heavy weight can be greatly benificial doing a pullover exercise. Now the exercise with a striaght bar pulldown I would say would be the isolation exercise for lats and moderate weight with that I would agree with.

[Daywalker75]

I just feel as long as the core is stable enough for a big load, and the shoulder joints not at risk, heavy weight can be greatly benificial doing a pullover exercise. Now the exercise with a striaght bar pulldown I would say would be the isolation exercise for lats and moderate weight with that I would agree with.

I agree I go very heavy on pullovers...the lats are afterall a big muscle.

[Bostongeorge617]

I just feel as long as the core is stable enough for a big load, and the shoulder joints not at risk, heavy weight can be greatly benificial doing a pullover exercise. Now the exercise with a striaght bar pulldown I would say would be the isolation exercise for lats and moderate weight with that I would agree with.

Oh, it is the 'moderate weight' part that you were asking about? I have 2 books at home that recommend 'moderate' weight, and I'm pretty sure I saw it in a video as well. I don't have the time to dig around online for the video since I am minutes away from leaving work for the gym, but here are the Amazon links to both books:

http://www.amazon.com/101-Workouts-M...9891710&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Strength-Train...891737&sr=1-10

I'm pretty sure the video was a FitShow episode with Bill Whats-his-name (black guy, trained with Arnold, mini-legend) where he was reminiscing about his starting routine. If it isnt that video, it is probably a Bob Chicherillo training vid.

[Chesticles2]

Oh, it is the 'moderate weight' part that you were asking about? I have 2 books at home that recommend 'moderate' weight, and I'm pretty sure I saw it in a video as well. I don't have the time to dig around online for the video since I am minutes away from leaving work for the gym, but here are the Amazon links to both books:

http://www.amazon.com/101-Workouts-M...9891710&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Strength-Train...891737&sr=1-10

I'm pretty sure the video was a FitShow episode with Bill Whats-his-name (black guy, trained with Arnold, mini-legend) where he was reminiscing about his starting routine. If it isnt that video, it is probably a Bob Chicherillo training vid.

All in all it will be a bodybuilders opinion on how it affected him for the better for that specific exercise, where as im just going off of what I learned in school about skeletal muscles and how they work, plus my own 3 years experience in the gym. But i will read those links thanks man!

[cmurray]

I throw them in on my chest day sometimes as an alternate exercise. They hit my chest harder than anything else.

[Daywalker75]

I suggest you guys watch the link I posted....

[Chesticles2]

I suggest you guys watch the link I posted....

lol im on it!

[DJAuto]

I used to perform pullovers as a finishing movement. They're alright, but certainly not one of my favorite movements.

[derekk1]

chest shoulders
back bis
traps
shoulers tris
legs
off

repeat

I do shoulders twice a week because they are lagging bad. if you have a better routine with shoulders twice a week let me know.

how the hell do traps get their own day? all you do for traps is shrugs. you shrug and possibly do farmers walks for 45 - 60 min?

[BowtotheFlex]

i dont like em at all,
really dont feel any muscle stimulation with them, and if anything slight shoulder/neck irritation.

if your looking to hit chest.. press and fly
back... row and pulldowns

[dizzay20]

they r great for hitting the serratus.

[Bostongeorge617]

Here are a couple scans illustrating both barbell and dumbbell pullovers from the below book:

[ItalynStalyn]

I like doing pull overs on a decline bench w/ a db...set to the steepest angle. This way allows you to keep tension on the muscle even at the top of the movement.

[Daywalker75]

Thats great...you will get some stimulation in the pec but not much.
I ve been doing the dumbell version lately and while I get soreness in my lats the next day, There is none in my pecs.