alcohol

[dutter]

before this thing blows up.

i know a lot here don't drink at all, thats fine with me. i was there myself at one time. i have been on both sides before. i spent so many years in the the gym, at one time i gave up everything for the gym and bodybuilding. i was completely consumed and obsessed & cared about nothing else. i spent every cent on my diet and supplements (no roids). i could not go fishing or hunting because it will mess up my diet. i gave up motorcycles, it even messed up some relationships i was in. now i look back and say never again. i will not let anything take over my life like that. life is to short. sure i still strive to have better then average strength and body and i have no plans of quitting what im doing. i feel great and some say i look fantastic for a 45 year old, thats all i really want out of this. life is to short. i'm going to go have a little fun once or twice a week.

[BalloonKnot]

I drink very infrequently as I cannot stop at one or two on a regular basis but that is the same problem I have with cookies, chips, peanut butter cups, etc.

I have an addictive personality.

Alcohol is not good for you in any moderation...enjoy it carefully if you must.

[theKurp]

By my standards, 3 glasses of red wine = 1 bottle.

I drink 1 glass every night. Therefore, my alcohol intake is between 2 and 3 bottles a week.

Say what you will, but I can point to a number of studies that say I derive some benefit from this.

[mickdoo]

Why does every one equate fun with drinking. I have fun every single day. I do not need a drug/alcohol to have, fun. Ever sit with a bunch of people drinking. They do nothing but just sit there and talk smack. Then each one only gets up to pee. Then they start laughing real loud at stupid stuff, yea thats real fun.

[boathead]

im not saying i drink or anything, more for like future references

atta boy. deny deny deny.

i don't know about a few beers, but a quart of vodka and 18 beers a day did nothing for me physically. it did get me arrested many times, and even provided 2 all expenses paid vacations in modern correctional facilities!

6.5 years sober. life is so much easier this way.

[charlievanriper]

By my standards, 3 glasses of red wine = 1 bottle.

I drink 1 glass every night. Therefore, my alcohol intake is between 2 and 3 bottles a week.

Say what you will, but I can point to a number of studies that say I derive some benefit from this.

No you dont, no more benefit than if you just added a clove of garlic to your meals.

[charlievanriper]

Why does every one equate fun with drinking. I have fun every single day. I do not need a drug/alcohol to have, fun. Ever sit with a bunch of people drinking. They do nothing but just sit there and talk smack. Then each one only gets up to pee. Then they start laughing real loud at stupid stuff, yea thats real fun.

Its really fun to sit back and laugh at them, especially when they decide to get on the dance floor!

[BrotherWolf]

By my standards, 3 glasses of red wine = 1 bottle.

I drink 1 glass every night. Therefore, my alcohol intake is between 2 and 3 bottles a week.

Say what you will, but I can point to a number of studies that say I derive some benefit from this.

I'll back you up I feel sorry for those who can't enjoy good wine or beer
I know people who can't just drink a glass or two , they go on drinking until they are ****faced .. well, that's their problem not the alcohol

[HeismanWatch]

atta boy. deny deny deny.

i don't know about a few beers, but a quart of vodka and 18 beers a day did nothing for me physically. it did get me arrested many times, and even provided 2 all expenses paid vacations in modern correctional facilities!

6.5 years sober. life is so much easier this way.

^^^Good input!

[HeismanWatch]

I'll back you up I feel sorry for those who can't enjoy good wine or beer
I know people who can't just drink a glass or two , they go on drinking until they are ****faced .. well, that's their problem not the alcohol

I can drink and used to do so about twice maybe three times a month, but as time went on I saw how those in the 40s began to struggle terribly with it, so I re-evaluated those two or three times a month and said, "no more for me".

I have more fun without it and I feel a LOT better physically it even though it was through limited consumption. I'm actually more confident socially without it as my workout high and the red blood cells are not suppressed by alcohol dips FINALLY.

[HeismanWatch]

No you dont, no more benefit than if you just added a clove of garlic to your meals.

Most believe it is the wine and not the Mediterranean diet (food).

I've been an expat overseas for many years and can guarantee you that it is more about the DIET than the wine. Those that pound wine and alcohol were the people with the most wrinkles and aged faces over there. That applied to the smokers as well.

Why is it so healthy for the heart, which is tissue / muscle, but so bad for the tissue on the face? LOL!!!!

Any scientific report can spin a good study.

[HeismanWatch]

i quit drinking for 4 1/2 years when i was competing. i felt fantastic & it was a lot eaiser to get cut up.

now, i like a six pack on a fri or sat nite. i totally agree about the sleep and diet getting screwed up. i have a loss of apetite and miss some meals. i think that all work and no play is a bad thing. if you can find a less destructive way to have your fun, fine. i would rather stay home and have sex then drink (or drink and then have sex) but it allways don't work out that way. for me it just knocks me back a step. i get back on the horse, continue forward and do some posive things for my body. i guess my point is, it can slow down your progress some but for me a few beers helps me keep my sanity some times.

^^^Now that is a candid perspective. I'm shocked you can't find fun without it.

When I first stopped I was socially uncomfortable going out, but as I worked at it the whole process has became more interesting as I can find people intelligent enough to carry a conversation, while keeping my head and doing the same. I'm around more stable people that are more than a weekend happy hour. They tend to be more successful and have more stable relationships and families.

They've become a network of people that help me be successful in business, health and life in general. I used to get bored with having a happy hour crowd and a non happy hour crowd.

[theKurp]

Is it just me or does anyone else marvel at the hypocrisy of those who criticize alcohol consumption at any level by touting the negatives and ignoring the benefits of moderate inclusion in the diet?

Using the same logic, it wouldn't take much to criticize bodybuilding on the same level given not only the abundance of injuries suffered by those who push the envelope in quest of an unnatural physique, but the host of other negative side effects that come from supplementation, poor cardiovascular training, and the malnutrition inherent in contest preparation.

Glass houses folks.

[dutter]

Why does every one equate fun with drinking. .

....cause its fun

[Brackneyc]

Is it just me or does anyone else marvel at the hypocrisy of those who criticize alcohol consumption at any level by touting the negatives and ignoring the benefits of moderate inclusion in the diet?

Because the "benefits" are purely in the eye of the beholder (IMO). In moderation, it won't hurt you as much as it would if you pounded it everyday. Yes, we have all seen the studies showing the "benefits." In the real world however, I have never heard of a person telling me that their life suddenly got better once they began consuming alcohol. I have however (myself included) heard hundreds, perhaps thousands of stories about lives improving as a result of eliminating it.

[dutter]

^^^ I'm shocked you can't find fun without it.

.

i never said i can't find fun without it. i do a lot of things for fun. i ride motorcycles, play softball, fish, hunt and yes, working out 5 days a week is fun also. yes, i think drinking is a fun and relaxing thing to do but not the only thing.

after reading here i think a lot of people that don't drink have that "AA" aditude. like no, you should not drink at all, and preach to those that do. i say to each his own. im a single guy with no children & live alone. some people like to go play bingo on a fri night, some go hit the crack pipe, thats all fine with me i'll go have a few beers with my friends.

[Marius_Ursus]

I drank a glass of Lambrusco with my gnocchi Bolognese last night.

[theKurp]

Because the "benefits" are purely in the eye of the beholder (IMO). In moderation, it won't hurt you as much as it would if you pounded it everyday. Yes, we have all seen the studies showing the "benefits." In the real world however, I have never heard of a person telling me that their life suddenly got better once they began consuming alcohol. I have however (myself included) heard hundreds, perhaps thousands of stories about lives improving as a result of eliminating it.

I should just rest my case but you've given me too much fodder here. On one hand you dismiss benefits of moderate alcohol consumption as something merely perceived and then on the other hand you acknowledge that there are studies that demonstrate the benefits. Then, in what can only be described as sheer self-absorption, you claim that your personal anecdotal experiences are more "real world" than the results of the controlled studies of thousands of people across 3 different continents. A point of reference here that bears mentioning: the studies were conducted on people who consumed alcohol in "real life" situations, not on people who lived in labs like rats.

[Firminator4]

before this thing blows up.

i know a lot here don't drink at all, thats fine with me. i was there myself at one time. i have been on both sides before. i spent so many years in the the gym, at one time i gave up everything for the gym and bodybuilding. i was completely consumed and obsessed & cared about nothing else. i spent every cent on my diet and supplements (no roids). i could not go fishing or hunting because it will mess up my diet. i gave up motorcycles, it even messed up some relationships i was in. now i look back and say never again. i will not let anything take over my life like that. life is to short. sure i still strive to have better then average strength and body and i have no plans of quitting what im doing. i feel great and some say i look fantastic for a 45 year old, thats all i really want out of this. life is to short. i'm going to go have a little fun once or twice a week.

I'm with you. I like balance in my life. If I thought I couldn't have a couple of beers once in awhile without it being a problem - I wouldn't do it. Some people can't have a couple of anything - I can.

[dday39]

Let me begin by saying that I quit drinking over 6 years ago. It's the best LIFE decision I've made. However, I'm not here to judge. I will say, that anything in moderation is fine. But moderation doesn't mean binge drinking on the weekend. That's just a small step from alcoholism. You'd be better off having 1 drink per night.

Just to clear something up:

Alcohol ranks high on the cause of ER visits, the #1 cause of ER visits in alcohol (150,000), #2 *******, #3 marijuana and steroids they rank 142nd as a cause for ER visits.

This information is flawed. ER visit stats are are determined by a questionaire(sp). So if you've ever tried ******* in your life, the ER visit could be logged as ******* related. Just saying.

[GreenWave1]

Enjoying a glass of beer or wine with a meal is fine, just don't forget to include it in your macros (if you are tracking). My history with substance abuse is well documented on this site, so for me, abstinance is the only answer.

I do not judge those who can drink in moderation. The only thing I urge people to do is assess their situation and be honest with yourself. Most of you guys are saying a few beers occassionally or a glass of wine/beer with dinner. That's fine. But for the man who is downing 6 or 7 beers 3 nights a week, I would suggest considering stopping for a month and seeing IF you can/how hard is it too stop. Then decide how to proceed.

[BuckSpin]

Humble .02:

Some people have the willpower to have a beer or some wine.........and stop.

Some don't......

And FWIW, if we are talking about anything "brewed" (and I use the term loosely) by Bud, Miller or Coors.......that is NOT beer.

I won't even go into what great wine can be.....

To those who choose not do.....great. To those of you (like myself) who can enjoy A beer or A glass of wine.....salute.

[Brackneyc]

I should just rest my case but you've given me too much fodder here. On one hand you dismiss benefits of moderate alcohol consumption as something merely perceived and then on the other hand you acknowledge that there are studies that demonstrate the benefits. Then, in what can only be described as sheer self-absorption, you claim that your personal anecdotal experiences are more "real world" than the results of the controlled studies of thousands of people across 3 different continents. A point of reference here that bears mentioning: the studies were conducted on people who consumed alcohol in "real life" situations, not on people who lived in labs like rats.

Maybe I should have put the word studies in quotes so it would have been more clear. Secondly, it wasn't only "my" anecdotal stories, but hundreds (and I would guess thousands if we asked for them) of "stories," which are likely as reliable as any of the "studies" I referred to.




Now, I have posted several times within this thread, and have at least once referenced that "in moderation," it "likely" won't do much damage to your body, or your progress. You may have missed that part.

Now, are you going to tell me that if I or anyone else eats clean, doesn't smoke and trains consistently, that we are not doing as well as we could be because we have left alcohol out of our diet? If you are to remain consistent in your argument, that would HAVE to be your message.

Sorry, but I'll take my chances on eating clean, training hard and getting my rest. That is a far more "proven" way of healthy living than adding some alcohol.

Edit: Could you tell us what improvement you saw in your life once you began adding alcohol to your diet? Even though it will be anecdotal, I'll accept whatever you claim the benefit was. What changes did you notice, either by way of "feeling," or vital stats (maybe taken by a doctor or a blood panel).

[charlievanriper]

So true H and I agree 100%. I will not go into major details as the truth upsets others but I can give you the title of a book written back in 1996 by a British Herbalist ( a vary respected Herbalist in Europe) that did a study that will show you why thier is so much fat accumulation from drinking as you get older. Like you I have been fit ( vary healthy and active above average) all my life and yes I drank when I was younger, but as I reached 40 I noticed how much Alcohol effected my strength gains as well as limiting how lean I could get. When I quit I also found my abilities sky rocketed in all aspects of life not just in athletic's.

Thx for the response.

Most believe it is the wine and not the Mediterranean diet (food).

I've been an expat overseas for many years and can guarantee you that it is more about the DIET than the wine. Those that pound wine and alcohol were the people with the most wrinkles and aged faces over there. That applied to the smokers as well.

Why is it so healthy for the heart, which is tissue / muscle, but so bad for the tissue on the face? LOL!!!!

Any scientific report can spin a good study.

[charlievanriper]

And again this is not a thread about condemming drinking in any quantity, or whether or not you can handle it ( as in addictive personalities or what not ). If you enjoy it great have fun. The point is Alcohol in any quantity will and does slow your system down and it effects your Hormonal system in a neg way, and Alcohol has been shown in multiple studies to effect your Fat burning mechanism by shutting down a key enzyme that promotes the breakdown of Fats in your body.

if high levels of performance are not your goal then have fun, but if you compete and find your not winning then look to your diet including your Alcohol intake.

Enjoy it if you will, make excuses if you want, go search the internet and find all the Alcohol industries supported studies that you want to find proving your point, but those of us that are Performance orientated Athletes that have been drinkers ( whether 2 beers on friday night and a shot of bourbon occasionally like I was or any amount) and have quit Drinking and have seen the benefits of not drinking these are the only studies that we need to hear about, as these are proof in the pudding so to say!!!!!! Not from a Doctor that has gotten thousands of Dollars from a Beer producer to show some kind of Benefit to drinking.

And Firm this is not meant to be nasty to you directly its just a good post to throw down my opinion..

I'm with you. I like balance in my life. If I thought I couldn't have a couple of beers once in awhile without it being a problem - I wouldn't do it. Some people can't have a couple of anything - I can.

[dutter]

Rule # 2 Never take advice from Small, weak or out of Shape people!

[oldsuperman]

Is it just me or does anyone else marvel at the hypocrisy of those who criticize alcohol consumption at any level by touting the negatives and ignoring the benefits of moderate inclusion in the diet?

Using the same logic, it wouldn't take much to criticize bodybuilding on the same level given not only the abundance of injuries suffered by those who push the envelope in quest of an unnatural physique, but the host of other negative side effects that come from supplementation, poor cardiovascular training, and the malnutrition inherent in contest preparation.

Glass houses folks.

The "logic" of a drinker! LOL!

Rule # 2 Never take advice from Small, weak or out of Shape people!

????

[BrotherWolf]

Because the "benefits" are purely in the eye of the beholder (IMO). In moderation, it won't hurt you as much as it would if you pounded it everyday. Yes, we have all seen the studies showing the "benefits." In the real world however, I have never heard of a person telling me that their life suddenly got better once they began consuming alcohol. I have however (myself included) heard hundreds, perhaps thousands of stories about lives improving as a result of eliminating it.

I already said it but I feel sorry for people like you, unable to enjoy the little pleasure of life.

Drink kool aid with your steak if you want, I'll take a nice stout

[BrotherWolf]

I drank a glass of Lambrusco with my gnocchi Bolognese last night.

You bad boy.. who made the gnocchi?

[theKurp]

Maybe I should have put the word studies in quotes so it would have been more clear. Secondly, it wasn't only "my" anecdotal stories, but hundreds (and I would guess thousands if we asked for them) of "stories," which are likely as reliable as any of the "studies" I referred to.

Dead people don't tell stories. The benefit of moderate alcohol consumption is measured by reduced mortality from cardiovascular disease and lower incidence of strokes. But, if you insist, I'll counter with the millions of people who'll state unequivocally that they "feel" better after one glass of wine or beer. How's that?

Now, I have posted several times within this thread, and have at least once referenced that "in moderation," it "likely" won't do much damage to your body, or your progress. You may have missed that part.

No, I didn't miss that part. What you fail to acknowledge despite the plethora of studies that indicate such, is that not only does moderate alcohol consumption not do much damage, but it actually PROVIDES a health benefit.

Now, are you going to tell me that if I or anyone else eats clean, doesn't smoke and trains consistently, that we are not doing as well as we could be because we have left alcohol out of our diet? If you are to remain consistent in your argument, that would HAVE to be your message.

I'm not telling you, the studies suggest that it may very well be possible that you can further reduce your risk from heart disease and stroke by consuming a glass of wine/alcohol a day with a meal.

Sorry, but I'll take my chances on eating clean, training hard and getting my rest. That is a far more "proven" way of healthy living than adding some alcohol.

I'm not suggesting you take up drinking. But given the two scenarios: exercise and eat healthy, or, exercise, eat healthy, AND drink a glass of wine with a meal, the latter scenario cannot be disproven as the healthier choice.

Edit: Could you tell us what improvement you saw in your life once you began adding alcohol to your diet? Even though it will be anecdotal, I'll accept whatever you claim the benefit was. What changes did you notice, either by way of "feeling," or vital stats (maybe taken by a doctor or a blood panel).

This is a specious argument. Heart disease is a silent killer. The same can be said of strokes. You don't "feel" plaque build-up in your veins. You don't "feel" low HDL cholesterol or high LDL cholesterol. And for what it's worth, moderate wine consumption has been proven to raise HDL cholesterol.