Post in this thread if you think welfare should be terminated

[GottaBeHUGE]

I agree with all statements above

I've been saying I think welfare needs reformation, not termination. But I also just like to discuss the issue and hear others' perspectives.

Also I've agreed upon reform at our current state



Thats not the argument anymore really, it's more on what to do with it.

[boilermaker06]

The American dream is a fallacy by which people are lead to believe that they can achieve their dreams, simply because they live in America.

But the truth is that they do end up being part of a Dream, it just isn't their own.

LMAO "American Dream".

****'s Consumerist Propaganda for naive idealists to buy into.

I'm sorry you feel this way. If you can't do it here, where can you?

Believe what you want, but you are wrong if you don't believe it's within your grasp to make a better life for yourself in this country.

You could spend your whole life convincing yourself that it's all a fallacy, you're powerless, you have no chance at succeeding, and the entire country is oppressing you. Or you can stop b!tching and self loathing and do something to better yourself. Nobody is going to stop you from doing something special., but it's up to you to do it.

[ZenBowman]

China's education funding per child: $52/year
India's education funding per child: $62/year

The USAs education funding per child: $8000+/year

At what point does education stop becoming a funding issue, and start becoming a cultural issue?

[magog704]

I agree with all statements above

I've been saying I think welfare needs reformation, not termination. But I also just like to discuss the issue and hear others' perspectives.

I agree with reform. The whole premise behind welfare was and should be to get people working again.

Being on welfare for most people is a bummer, it's embarrassing, it's a morale killer. There's always room for reform though to keep the people who are abusing the system from doing so, and to get help to people who are just down on there luck.

Like on Cinderella Man, when breh finally made it and went and paid back his unemployment. I get choked up w/ patriotism just thinkin about it.

[Ecnewyx]

Mmmm, if the "weak" were given EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, they wouldn't need the strong TO lift for them.

Just saying.

It's true that not everyone has the same opportunities. Some people are born into wealthy families, just like some people have better genetics or talents.

take note of how much of a "bustling center of enterprise" it really is and realize that not everybody in this world had all the advantages that you had and have.

I don't disagree, I just don't see how welfare helps anyone in a meaningful way. Grants, scholarships, etc. are all well and good. Handouts so you can have kids or because you're lazy aren't.

The modern welfare system doesn't do a good job distinguishing between the two.

[WiseElder]

I'm sorry you feel this way. If you can't do it here, where can you?

Believe what you want, but you are wrong if you don't believe it's within your grasp to make a better life for yourself in this country.

You could spend your whole life convincing yourself that it's all a fallacy, you're powerless, you have no chance at succeeding, and the entire country is oppressing you. Or you can stop b!tching and self loathing and do something to better yourself. Nobody is going to stop you from doing something special., but it's up to you to do it.

LOL, when did this turn into a self help seminar?

I'm just fine thank you, but I realize there's a glass ceiling.

So people can come here from the 3rd world and have it better, that's not really saying much.

[boilermaker06]

LOL, when did this turn into a self help seminar?

I'm just fine thank you, but I realize there's a glass ceiling.

So people can come here from the 3rd world and have it better, that's not really saying much.

What is the ceiling?

What is stopping you from doing something great?

Who is going to prevent you from starting a multi-million dollar business?

I don't understand why you feel so powerless. You can do anything you want with your life.

[GottaBeHUGE]

What is the ceiling?

What is stopping you from doing something great?

Who is going to prevent you from starting a multi-million dollar business?

I don't understand why you feel so powerless. You can do anything you want with your life.

the problem with our country is that no one wants to work and earn anything they feel it should be given to them

[WiseElder]

I don't disagree, I just don't see how welfare helps anyone in a meaningful way.

By giving people sustenance? You can't see how that helps? I'll say this, if you want **** to change you start with the schools. It's that simple. I don't care what retard boy, but you do not learn from homework, your lessons are just reinforced. The inner city schools are overcrowded and that brings up a whole host of problems.

What it boils down to is that racism is still to this day alive, just enforced in a much more covert and POLITICALLY correct manner. Add to that class warfare. My real problem is with ignorance though which is displayed in abundance in threads of this nature, threads with racial undertones.

[WiseElder]

I don't understand why you feel so powerless. You can do anything you want with your life.

*To a certain extent

[-_-]

The money you get should only be used for basic clothing, house hold supplies, food, and shelter.

Not a big screen TV, rims, or a tattoo.

I've heard this before, and it's true but it's backwards thinking. Welfare is supposed to be a last resort, and just enough so the people can survive. Telling them what they can buy with the money is far too complicated and controlling. The important is to make sure nobody is abusing the system by getting more than they should be.

Welfare users are going to buy beer and get drunk. Forcing them to be responsible parents/humans is nearly impossible, or they wouldn't need welfare in the first place.

Give them just enough to survive, and it's their problem if they spend it irresponsibly. People always speak of escalades and rims in these threads, but come on... clearly a welfare user driving an escalade or purchasing rims is not even supposed to be getting welfare in the first place. The solution is not to tell them : you can't buy an escalade. It's to tell them : you have an escalade, we're not giving you anymore money. It's to make sure that people who get welfare actually need it.

As a right-wing extremist and economic fundamentalist, I'm pretty much expected to be against welfare, but I'm not. The other option is to create large 'prison ghettos' and labor camps for people who can't take care of themselves, and that would of course be racist, inhumane, etc. It just isn't feasible. We have to keep some kind of welfare, but a reform could be good.

The best we can do against poverty is to encourage pride and family values. We have to start fighting against the feminist and progressive ideologies that are promoting the social laissez-faire that's degrading our societies. The world is clearly sick when more and more intelligent, capable, wealthy people are refusing to procreate and instead of encouraging them to, we rely on immigration from 3rd world countries to expand our workforce. People who become criminals, welfare users, etc. don't come from good families, so let's strongly discourage the poor from procreating and strongly encourage the wealthy and the middle class to do so.

[SevereMedicalCondition]

you do realize that America is absolutely littered with people who went from rags to riches? I guarantee they didn't do it on welfare. People are either going to make something of themselves, or they aren't, giving them welfare won't change that.

What % of people who go on welfare ever try to get off of it?

We are not littered with people who went from rags to riches. There are people who work hard ****ty jobs everyday who will never be rich.

When I was born we were dirt poor, my mom worked her way through college, got a degree, and got two decent jobs. She worked them and later started her own business, she has put in 12 hour work days for most of my life. She took us from dirt poor to doing okay but no where near rich. Circumstances prevented her from getting rich NOT hard work.

People work hard everyday and will never be rich.

[matty_b_bop]

I've lived in complete poverty and complete wealth. I'm well aware of how both sides work.

I am all for welfare reform because people heavily ABUSE the system. You say there are no jobs in the hood, but all it takes is a bus pass (if you don't already have a vehicle, bike, skateboard, etc) to get to where you need to go to find work. Jobs are there, but some people might need to suck up their pride and do a job they don't particularly want to do. It's life. Thing is, when you have a free handout, whether deserved or not, you have no reason to work for it if you know there will be a check in your mailbox every month.

People sell their food stamps for drugs/alcohol

People take their welfare checks and buy Jordans, Jordans for their babies, rims, designer jeans, lotto tickets, tattoos, drugs, alcohol, etc, instead of buying things that are essential to living.

Not all do this, but many, which shows that there is a problem. This is why there needs to be a Welfare Reform to help bring about positive change, to limit the number of people abusing the system and to help ensure a long-lasting system for those that do responsibly use, and need it.

I'm all about helping those in need, but not the ones that abuse it.

[res.ume]

There are many reasons why welfare is good. First of all people on welfare do not tend to remain on welfare indefinetly (link1). 20% less than 7 months. 80% less than 5 years. How quickly can you expect people to develop financial stability in the first place. It doesn't happen overnight especially if you start off extremely poor. In fact most welfare recipiants are on welfare for less than 2 years.

"As the statistics show, teenage mothers comprise a very small part of the welfare population." (link 1) So i think our preconception about Laquisha needing to close her legs is a little presumptious (and probably stemming from racism ((but w/e))

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm

Moreover, welfare is good for the economy in times of economic downturn WHICH IS THE TIME YOU NEED IT MOST. It keeps money in circulation when the market colapses which keeps business open which keeps people employed which keeps people getting income and spending money... etc.

Moreover it keeps these people from resorting to criminal activity which is good for all of us. i know many of you with your guns think you can defend yourself that's fine. but what about everyone else. what about a woman walking to the park with her child. It keeps them out of jail, and keeps the prison system... well it keeps it from getting worse.

Many people argue that it doesn't give them incentive to work. I'd argue that welfare provides people with initial stability necessary to stabilize their situation and start looking for work. Companies do not want to hire people who are living on the streets and are unkempt. By providing welfare you give people the chance to stabilize a bit, fix themselves up before they go and look for work thus welfare helps people find jobs.

In addition many of you talk about the abusers. Well less than 20% of people stay on welfare for more than 5 years. Therefore for 80% of the people it is a necessary means to get back on their feet. These 80% are the clear majority and the 20% is the price we pay for something that does A LOT of good. Because welfare payments are not a substantial amount that 20% isn't even a very significant cost compared to the benefits.

it's also a morally good thing to help someone back onto their feet so they can become a productive member of society like many do become.

[SiNiStEr94]

I used to work at QuikTrip. I loved when people came in and bought candy, soda, etc with food stamps then pulled out a $50 for a 30 pack of budlight and some swisher sweets. It's complete bull****.

I applied for financial aid this year and my EFC is too high for any grants. Yet I'm independent and barely made over $20k last year LOL. That's fine, I'll find a way to pay for my education. But what pisses me off about financial aid, is that any applicant applying for financial aid CANNOT be convicted of a drug charge. If the government isn't gonna give grants/loans to 20 year olds for an education because they got in trouble for having pot on them ---- then they shouldn't give out welfare to those who have criminal drug charges either.

No, I don't have a criminal drug history. I just think it's bull**** that if you're not gonna give some 20 year old kid money for school then they shouldn't be giving all these welfare *******s money every month if they have a criminal drug charge as well.

[Dummkopf]

Welfare reform sure, welfare elimination yes

Welfare is what keeps blacks as a whole from progressing, it's called the welfare trap.

[Atlas_Army]

Its very common, especially in Baltimore City, for these little ghetto hood rats to have children just to get on welfare. There was a girl in my school who claimed just that. She had absolutely no problems with the issue either, because she claimed "The white man is always keeping us down, I got to get my money anyway I can," even though the government was paying her entire tuition just so she could fail out and spend all of her welfare money on pot. She brought one of her welfare children into class one day and the litter **** had on Nike sneakers.

That is how our system works. Get used to it, its only going to get worse.

I LOL'ED irl hahah

[WiseElder]

The best we can do against poverty is to encourage pride and family values. We have to start fighting against the feminist and progressive ideologies that are promoting the social laissez-faire that's degrading our societies. The world is clearly sick when more and more intelligent, capable, wealthy people are refusing to procreate and instead of encouraging them to, we rely on immigration from 3rd world countries to expand our workforce. People who become criminals, welfare users, etc. don't come from good families, so let's strongly discourage the poor from procreating and strongly encourage the wealthy and the middle class to do so.

This guy kind of knows what he's talking about. But how do you know that everything you said isn't being promoted? How are people gonna detach from what they are being told to do, when they can't even detach from their TV's? Maybe it's all systemic?

[boilermaker06]

We are not littered with people who went from rags to riches. There are people who work hard ****ty jobs everyday who will never be rich.

When I was born we were dirt poor, my mom worked her way through college, got a degree, and got two decent jobs. She worked them and later started her own business, she has put in 12 hour work days for most of my life. She took us from dirt poor to doing okay but no where near rich. Circumstances prevented her from getting rich NOT hard work.

People work hard everyday and will never be rich.

Obviously not everyone who "works hard" is going to be "rich". But I believe hard workers will avoid welfare.
And as far as working hard != rich, there is supply and demand when it comes to careers. 12 Hour manual labor jobs will obviously not get rich, because there is a large supply of people able to perform that task, and not a great demand. Doctors however, who go to school for X years, are in much higher demand because of the incredible amount of intelligence, education, and skill it takes to perform the position.

When I said working hard, I didn't mean mowing a bunch of lawns. I meant working hard your whole life to achieve your goals. I admired your mom for working her ass off to provide for your family, but obviously not everyone who works their ass of is going to be rich. That doesn't mean it's not possible for someone else.

There are many reasons why welfare is good. First of all people on welfare do not tend to remain on welfare indefinetly (link1). 20% less than 7 months. 80% less than 5 years. How quickly can you expect people to develop financial stability in the first place. It doesn't happen overnight especially if you start off extremely poor. In fact most welfare recipiants are on welfare for less than 2 years.

"As the statistics show, teenage mothers comprise a very small part of the welfare population." (link 1) So i think our preconception about Laquisha needing to close her legs is a little presumptious (and probably stemming from racism ((but w/e))

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm

Moreover, welfare is good for the economy in times of economic downturn WHICH IS THE TIME YOU NEED IT MOST. It keeps money in circulation when the market colapses which keeps business open which keeps people employed which keeps people getting income and spending money... etc.

Moreover it keeps these people from resorting to criminal activity which is good for all of us. i know many of you with your guns think you can defend yourself that's fine. but what about everyone else. what about a woman walking to the park with her child. It keeps them out of jail, and keeps the prison system... well it keeps it from getting worse.

Many people argue that it doesn't give them incentive to work. I'd argue that welfare provides people with initial stability necessary to stabilize their situation and start looking for work. Companies do not want to hire people who are living on the streets and are unkempt. By providing welfare you give people the chance to stabilize a bit, fix themselves up before they go and look for work thus welfare helps people find jobs.

In addition many of you talk about the abusers. Well less than 20% of people stay on welfare for more than 5 years. Therefore for 80% of the people it is a necessary means to get back on their feet. These 80% are the clear majority and the 20% is the price we pay for something that does A LOT of good. Because welfare payments are not a substantial amount that 20% isn't even a very significant cost compared to the benefits.

it's also a morally good thing to help someone back onto their feet so they can become a productive member of society like many do become.

Thanks for providing a well thought out post. I enjoyed reading it.

[BigMacMeal]

IN

[romapwr88]

Also you guys advocating for reform, I'm guessing that would make less people be eligible to receive welfare right? So what are these people that get their welfare benefits taken away gonna do? Go work? We don't have jobs as it is, so how in the hell are they going to survive? Or should we just let them die? I agree that there are many people that don't deserve to be on welfare, however without it they probably would not be able to support themselves in ****ty economy... Welfare needs reform, but first we need to worry about creating jobs, so that people forced out of welfare can actually get a job

[Trapstar4.4]

oh and there are limits on welfare. lets not get crazy and think that its an all out free for all. there are limits on how much they get, and there are lifetime maximums. The states also cap the aggregate totals that the individual states receive so they arent just throwing cash at people

but to be honest i dont know its set up, i just remember reading that there were measures put in place through the welfare reform act to end it being connotatively known as an "entitlement program"

at the end of the day, that type of govt spending only accounts for what im sure is less than 4% of gov't expenditures. I would look it up if i wasnt at work. i need to get some work done. like i said before, we are getting effed alot worse in other ways.

[GottaBeHUGE]

Also you guys advocating for reform, I'm guessing that would make less people be eligible to receive welfare right? So what are these people that get their welfare benefits taken away gonna do? Go work? We don't have jobs as it is, so how in the hell are they going to survive? Or should we just let them die? I agree that there are many people that don't deserve to be on welfare, however without it they probably would not be able to support themselves in ****ty economy... Welfare needs reform, but first we need to worry about creating jobs, so that people forced out of welfare can actually get a job

Charities can help these people, it's not the governments job. How are we going to create jobs?

[Trapstar4.4]

We are not littered with people who went from rags to riches. There are people who work hard ****ty jobs everyday who will never be rich.

When I was born we were dirt poor, my mom worked her way through college, got a degree, and got two decent jobs. She worked them and later started her own business, she has put in 12 hour work days for most of my life. She took us from dirt poor to doing okay but no where near rich. Circumstances prevented her from getting rich NOT hard work.

People work hard everyday and will never be rich.

yeah "rags to riches" amounts to nothing more than hoop dreams
the dream of going to the NFL. He should just reword that to rags to middle class. Now that is done alot. heck my mom did it for us. We moved to the big city of ATL and boom middle class! feels good man...well its not the best, but living comfortably is not too shabby

[-_-]

Also you guys advocating for reform, I'm guessing that would make less people be eligible to receive welfare right? So what are these people that get their welfare benefits taken away gonna do? Go work? We don't have jobs as it is, so how in the hell are they going to survive? Or should we just let them die? I agree that there are many people that don't deserve to be on welfare, however without it they probably would not be able to support themselves in ****ty economy... Welfare needs reform, but first we need to worry about creating jobs, so that people forced out of welfare can actually get a job

Most people promoting reform seem to want to reduce abuse, and not to take away food money from people who actually need it.

[War Machine]

Mmmm, if the "weak" were given EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, they wouldn't need the strong TO lift for them.

Just saying.

That's too asinine to even comment on.

[WiseElder]

Welfare needs reform, but first we need to worry about creating jobs, so that people forced out of welfare can actually get a job

BIG TIME. And another thing, stop outsourcing American jobs, and penalize owners for hiring illegals. It's funny how people on this forum will ALWAYS blame the black welfare recipient, the Hispanic illegal immigrant, but none of the blame ever makes it's way back the greedy business owner. Hmmmmm...

[OldeEnglish800]

I worked retail and fast food in the inner city for years alongside welfare people. Too many stories to tell about black girls talking amongst each other about "yeah girl I feel like kickin my feet up for a while, I'm goin down to the FSP to get some of dem food stamps".

The girls who have about 5-6 kids and are put in 2 story section 8 houses are even better. One girl quit work because she was getting hooked up with that after having the 6th kid, section 8, food stamps the whole works, and she would STILL stop by in her baby phat clothes while everyone was working and go in the back and make about 10 burgers and 10 fries for the family, slowing everyone who was working down. It was okay with the managers too because they were all "homegirls". Like jesus christ where does the free **** end.

I just loved it when the day before the payment cycle started, people would have 700-1500$ on their EBT cards, about to be paid a couple more hundred the next day.

What would make me sick the most was seeing the hummer with the 26' inch spinner rims on it pull up and a mother and kids would get out with dirty, disgusting ripped up clothes they've probably been wearing for days like, where the hell are the priorities here?

Just purebred social parasites

[boilermaker06]

yeah "rags to riches" amounts to nothing more than hoop dreams
the dream of going to the NFL. He should just reword that to rags to middle class. Now that is done alot. heck my mom did it for us. We moved to the big city of ATL and boom middle class! feels good man...well its not the best, but living comfortably is not too shabby

..
When I speak of rags to riches I'm not talking about dreaming to become a professional football player..

I'm talking about a kid who was introduced to a life of mediocrity, working his ass off through high school and college and studying like a mad man, and then doing something special to make it big.

It happens. Just because it didn't happen in your family doesn't mean it's not happening in others'. As I said earlier, I personally know multiple people who grew up in poor/mediocre families, but wanted something better for themselves, and busted their ass to get it.

I know a CEO of a Fortune 500 company who pulled in $7 million last year.
He grew up on the streets in New York.

And I don't throw that out as an example, I throw that out as someone that I personally know. It's not just a big propaganda scheme, people make a better life for themselves pretty often.

Rare? Sure. Impossible? No.

[BigMacMeal]

Morally and economically, the welfare state creates an ever accelerating downward pull. Morally, the chance to satisfy demands by force spreads the demands wider and wider, with less and less pretense at justification. Economically, the forced demands of one group create hardships for all others, thus producing an inextricable mixture of actual victims and plain parasites. Since need, not achievement, is held as the criterion of rewards, the government necessarily keeps sacrificing the more productive groups to the less productive, gradually chaining the top level of the economy, then the next level, then the next. (How else are unachieved rewards to be provided?)- Ayn Rand

inb4 someone get's pissed i posted an Ayn Rand quote