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  1. #1
    Registered User moonburne's Avatar
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    Thoughts on 1 set to failure?

    I've been on a bulking phase right now, and I usually do 3 sets of 8 reps. I've heard from some people that going to failure is what really helps you build muscle. If that's the case, what are your thoughts on doing JUST ONE SET with enough weight to where you need to get at least 8 reps, but no more than 12. If you can do 12 or more, you need to up the weight. But going to failure is my goal. Do you agree or disagree with this method?
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  2. #2
    300,400,500 tayneltru's Avatar
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    I agree! Burnout set...
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  3. #3
    You're not my supervisor! Farley1324's Avatar
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    Majority...probably vast majority...will disagree.
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  4. #4
    interact with me PinchTheBear's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moonburne View Post
    I've been on a bulking phase right now, and I usually do 3 sets of 8 reps. I've heard from some people that going to failure is what really helps you build muscle. If that's the case, what are your thoughts on doing JUST ONE SET with enough weight to where you need to get at least 8 reps, but no more than 12. If you can do 12 or more, you need to up the weight. But going to failure is my goal. Do you agree or disagree with this method?
    Any proper training is going to earn you gains when coupled with proper diet. You do not need to go to failure every set, every workout to grow.. this is a myth:
    http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybui...tness_tip.html
    If you do choose to do working sets to failure, why only do one set? You can do a set to failure, rest for 2 minutes and hit it hard again. It doesn't need to be all or nothing.
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  5. #5
    Registered User braden101's Avatar
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    Im not an expert. but my understanding of how the body works is it will do the least possible to survive. So by progressively overloading your teaching your muscles that they WILL have to adapt to heavier weights next time they are pushed. but if you just go 1 set to absolute failure wouldn't that cause the muscle to go into defensive mode and not want to go any heavier as it is just being destroyed everytime it tries?...

    Look at it as teaching a kid how to swim, you dont just throw him in and say try stay alive coz he'sll never go in the water again. but if you slowly introduce him to the water step by step he'll be beter off for it....haha sorry if that sounds dumb but its just how i see it.
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  6. #6
    300,400,500 tayneltru's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by braden101 View Post
    Im not an expert. but my understanding of how the body works is it will do the least possible to survive. So by progressively overloading your teaching your muscles that they WILL have to adapt to heavier weights next time they are pushed. but if you just go 1 set to absolute failure wouldn't that cause the muscle to go into defensive mode and not want to go any heavier as it is just being destroyed everytime it tries?...

    Look at it as teaching a kid how to swim, you dont just throw him in and say try stay alive coz he'sll never go in the water again. but if you slowly introduce him to the water step by step he'll be beter off for it....haha sorry if that sounds dumb but its just how i see it.
    If your house gets hit by an earthquake and the roof falls in, you're gonna replace the roof. Maybe with a better one. If your house gets rocked by the earthquake and completely destroyed, you're gonna build a better, stronger house. (since you have to build the house there again.) idk?
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  7. #7
    Registered User Blizzard589's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by braden101 View Post
    Im not an expert. but my understanding of how the body works is it will do the least possible to survive. So by progressively overloading your teaching your muscles that they WILL have to adapt to heavier weights next time they are pushed. but if you just go 1 set to absolute failure wouldn't that cause the muscle to go into defensive mode and not want to go any heavier as it is just being destroyed everytime it tries?...

    Look at it as teaching a kid how to swim, you dont just throw him in and say try stay alive coz he'sll never go in the water again. but if you slowly introduce him to the water step by step he'll be beter off for it....haha sorry if that sounds dumb but its just how i see it.
    Muscles don't have some psyche that you can mess with. They're not going to be afraid to grow. If you're lifting heavy weights, whether its one set to failure or multiple sets, you're going to break down some fibers (idk the exact physiology of this) and with proper nutrition and rest, the body will build the fibers back up stronger and bigger than they were before.

    Originally Posted by tayneltru View Post
    If your house gets hit by an earthquake and the roof falls in, you're gonna replace the roof. Maybe with a better one. If your house gets rocked by the earthquake and completely destroyed, you're gonna build a better, stronger house. (since you have to build the house there again.) idk?
    Agree.
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  8. #8
    Registered User braden101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Muscles don't have some psyche that you can mess with. They're not going to be afraid to grow. If you're lifting heavy weights, whether its one set to failure or multiple sets, you're going to break down some fibers (idk the exact physiology of this) and with proper nutrition and rest, the body will build the fibers back up stronger and bigger than they were before.



    Agree.
    Well i guess both theories are true for different people. The difference of training to failure and not, is volume and frequency of workouts? I train 3 day a week full body, so training to failure each workout would be counter productive as id never be fully recovered to progress my weights, where if i was training each muscle once a week, training to failure would be optimal for most people... As long as your able to progessively add weight to your lifts, failure or not, your doing something right.
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  9. #9
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Failure is not a requirement for growth. What is a requirement is a steady progression of the amount of weight lifted, or an increase in reps at the same weight from last week's training.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  10. #10
    You're not my supervisor! Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by braden101 View Post
    Well i guess both theories are true for different people. The difference of training to failure and not, is volume and frequency of workouts? I train 3 day a week full body, so training to failure each workout would be counter productive as id never be fully recovered to progress my weights, where if i was training each muscle once a week, training to failure would be optimal for most people... As long as your able to progessively add weight to your lifts, failure or not, your doing something right.
    Don't think so
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  11. #11
    Registered User joshfokis's Avatar
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    well what i have learned that will really work the muscles is do a heavy weight set till fail then lower the weight by 5-10 pounds and do fail and so on and so on... burns fat and makes lean muscles
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  12. #12
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moonburne View Post
    I've heard from some people that going to failure is what really helps you build muscle.
    If that's the case, what are your thoughts on doing JUST ONE SET with enough weight to where you need to get at least 8 reps, but no more than 12. If you can do 12 or more, you need to up the weight. But going to failure is my goal. Do you agree or disagree with this method?
    In general, I disagree.

    If you're referring to training a main lift, ie squat, bench, dead, then except for rare occasions, I definitely would not train to failure in the 8-12 rep range. If you're talking about training an accessory exercise, then working in the 8-12 rep range is fine, but going to failure is pretty meaningless IMHO in terms of building muscle.
    Last edited by bigtallox; 03-03-2010 at 11:38 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by moonburne View Post
    I've been on a bulking phase right now, and I usually do 3 sets of 8 reps. I've heard from some people that going to failure is what really helps you build muscle. If that's the case, what are your thoughts on doing JUST ONE SET with enough weight to where you need to get at least 8 reps, but no more than 12. If you can do 12 or more, you need to up the weight. But going to failure is my goal. Do you agree or disagree with this method?
    Disagree.

    But respect your right to do what you like with your own body.

    Powerlifters and weightlifters avoid failure like the plague. They save their real max for a competition. They still get a lot bigger and stronger than most other people, unless they are have small frames, and deliberately restrict calories to avoid going up too many weight classes. You heard that right. They have to work to restrict hypertrophy if they don't want to compete in a higher class! That tells us that it is not necessary to go to failure to get huge muscles. It also tells us that multiple sets of low reps drive hypertrophy....if you eat enough.

    What tells the muscles to grow is not failure. It is the SAID principle. Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand. That means the muscle fibers have to grow to handle the extra weight. So get your scheduled reps in good form. Reward yourself by adding 5lbs next session. Repeat.

    Trouble with training to failure on everything, is it causes you to stall too soon, long before you have exhausted the gains possible from linear progression.

    Not safe to train:

    squats
    deads
    good mornings
    power cleans

    to real failure. Yet they are some of the biggest bang for your buck moves.

    When the next rep ain't going up in good form, terminate the set. Or take a few deep breaths and finish rest-pause style. Punish yourself by not adding 5lbs next session. If you have to do that a few times in a row, you have set the poundage too high for your CURRENT level of strength. You might be stuck there for years, like so many people. The solution is to back off several increments, and start over to pass out your previous best.

    You can do a host of machine exercises, laterals etc, safely to failure. Treat them as accessories, not the prime movers of mass and strength.
    Last edited by jgreystoke; 03-03-2010 at 12:53 PM.
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  14. #14
    You're not my supervisor! Farley1324's Avatar
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    Great post above ^^^
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  15. #15
    Registered User m_risinger's Avatar
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    effective if you know what your doing, do not use any jerking of the weights. do warmup sets and one set to failure in a smooth controlled manner. Each workout go up in weight and or reps and if your new to this, you will be able to go up almost every week. Leave your hormones in your body to grow. Not left in the gym
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    Registered User m_risinger's Avatar
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    this is bodybuilding.com, not powerlifting.com and no they don't avoid training to failure like the plague.

    whats one to gain larger muscles? get weaker? The stimulus responsible for increasing size is the last rep of a set carried to failure if that last rep is progressive resistance or overload.
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    good question

    I wondered the same after reading BB.com's newsletter that contained the following article today.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hitworkout.htm
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  18. #18
    Registered User Miketoc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    this is bodybuilding.com, not powerlifting.com and no they don't avoid training to failure like the plague.

    whats one to gain larger muscles? get weaker? The stimulus responsible for increasing size is the last rep of a set carried to failure if that last rep is progressive resistance or overload.
    Do you just make this crap up?
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  19. #19
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    this is bodybuilding.com, not powerlifting.com
    Yes this is bodybuilding.com, but most people here would most likely be better off with a powerlifting routine than the typical crappy bodybuilding routines that are based on bb myths.


    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    and no they don't avoid training to failure like the plague.
    Yup, they do.

    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    The stimulus responsible for increasing size is the last rep of a set carried to failure if that last rep is progressive resistance or overload.
    Huh? No, failure is not required for increasing size, especially if your training is right.
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    You're not my supervisor! Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post



    Huh? No, failure is not required for increasing size, especially if your training is right.
    You got that right.
    Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

    Rightful Liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.

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    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    this is bodybuilding.com, not powerlifting.com and no they don't avoid training to failure like the plague.
    Yes it is supposed to be a bodyBUILDING site. I used to be 130lbs for years. Best way to build muscle is to train progressively, ie adding poundage relentlessly to the big basics.

    They do avoid failure like the plague for two reasons:

    1. Injury is more a function of form breakdown due to fatigue than to the load. So they do heavy low rep sets not to failure.

    2. If you train to failure you plateau too early. A weightlifter or powerlifter has to keep adding a tad of iron regularly FOR YEARS before they have superman strength.

    Originally Posted by m_risinger View Post
    whats one to gain larger muscles? get weaker? The stimulus responsible for increasing size is the last rep of a set carried to failure if that last rep is progressive resistance or overload.
    If that was true, powerlifters, weightlifters, footballers etc would all train low or single sets to failure all the time because it would be more time and energy efficient. They don't because it doesn't work very well.....
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    i would hate to train deadlifts to failure ... oh my back... all that aside OP just train heavy weights with a handful of lifts. Get stronger and muscle gains will come. You can't get bigger if you don't have the strength
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    "HIT" WITH A "HAMMER"
    Frederick C. Hatfield, Ph.D., International Sports Sciences Association

    To avoid being HIT with a HAMMER, I feel compelled to make these two important disclaimers before I begin writing:

    As long as whatever form of training you're using doesn't hurt you, it's "good." Even if it keeps you from achieving your maximum potential, it's better than no training at all. So, on a scale of good, better, best, training according to the tenets of HIT theory is "good."
    As long as whatever type of training equipment you're using doesn't hurt you, it's "good." Even if it keeps you from achieving your maximum potential, it's better than no training equipment at all. So, on a scale of good, better, best, training with Hammer equipment is "good."
    Now, my tongue-in-cheek inclusion of the good folks at the Hammer equipment welding facility is merely that: Tongue-in-cheek. Actually, Hammer's inventor was none other than Arthur Jones. His son took over the company and made Hammer equipment a success story. So much so, in fact, that Life Fitness bought the company! The point is that Hammer, like Nautilus (Arthur's first foray into the wonderful world of weights), is frequently touted as the equipment of choice for the Hit Men. Me? I like BOTH companies' equipment no more or less than I like the rest of them. In fact, each has some unique merits, as do many others.
    Recall the seven laws of weight training from most sport scientists' perspectives. Here they are:

    The Law of Individual Differences: We all have different abilities and weaknesses, and we all respond differently (to a degree) to any given system of training. These differences should be taken into consideration when designing your training program.
    The Overcompensation Principle: Mother Nature overcompensates for training stress by giving you bigger and stronger muscles.
    The Overload Principle: To make Mother Nature overcompensate, you must stress your muscles beyond what they're already used to.
    The SAID Principle: The acronym for "Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands."
    The Use/Disuse Principle: "Use it or lose it" means that your muscles hypertrophy with use and atrophy with disuse.
    The GAS Principle: The acronym for General Adaptation Syndrome, this law states that there must be a period of low intensity training or complete rest following periods of high intensity training.
    The Specificity Principle: You'll get stronger at squats by doing squats as opposed to leg presses, and you'll get greater endurance for the marathon by running long distances than you will by (say) cycling long distances.
    Many of the current "systems" of training offer nothing new, and they often violate one or more of the seven "grand daddy" laws. If you are to understand my critique of HIT theory (below), you will have to be familiar with the seven laws. I recommend that you re-read the article on these laws if the synopsis above isn't enough.

    HIT History
    It all started back in the early seventies with Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame. Arthur's chief mission, of course, was to sell equipment. His marketing plan was brilliant. My interpretation of his plan was that in order to sell his equipment (which for the day was quite expensive) he had to create a religion for the masses. To create a religion he needed 1) churches, 2) disciples, 3) a bible, and 4) clergy.
    A scientist (Ellington Darden) inspired by God (Jones) wrote his bible, and (much later) a strength coach named "Moses" Matt Brzycki put the Ten Commandments from that bible into lay language. The Ten Commandments are presented below.
    Then he paid a bunch of guys to follow the gospel (their test results were later incorporated into the bible). Later, a chosen few of them became his disciples.
    The churches came next (Nautilus gyms sprang up all over the place... most are dead now, their respective flocks having flown the coop upon realizing that they were not making it to the promised land quickly enough -- in my humble opinion).
    His clergymen (gym owners) LOVED Arthur because he had really neat looking equipment and a way for them to rustle their clients in the front door and out the back real fast by convincing them that one set to failure was "the way."
    To support the notion that HIT is a Pagan religion, let me quote the word as it is written in the HIT page of the internet by one of his high priests, Matt Brzycki:
    "To some--including me--Jones was years ahead of his time and full of brilliant, revolutionary ideas about exercise; to others, he was the devil incarnate. One thing that everyone seems to agree upon was that he was abrasive, outspoken and brutally candid."
    Old timers like me recall that the most popular movies of the day were 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and The Time Machine. Arthur got the name "Nautilus" from one movie (his offset cam, copied from German physical therapy equipment of the mid 1800s, looked like a cross-sectioned conch shell), and the design from the other movie (his first machines were curiously reminiscent of the "Time Machine").

    Yes. Arthur's business plan was brilliant, and it was carried out even moreso. It's no wonder that the religion has persisted to this day, so stauchly converted were his disciples.


    Meet some of the HIT Disciples:
    There is a small (but utterly vocal) band of Arthur Jones disciples who have, since the early seventies, clung desperately to the oft discredited notion that one high intensity set to failure is all you need to achieve your maximum potential in growing stronger or bigger. In fact, the contemporary biblical interpretation (below) admits that one may profit from three sets, although one set is just as good as three. I say "desperately" for good reason. These guys (who like to call each other "HIT Jedi") invested their hearts and souls (and, quite often, funds from their respective organizations) in the superiority of both Jones' equipment and his theories on how best to use it. Others have been or are "sponsored" by Arthur. It almost seems as if they are afraid of losing face (if not their jobs) if they were to back away from the tenets of the HIT theory now, despite the huge volume of scientific studies discrediting many of its tenets.
    From a social-psychological view, it's utterly fascinating to watch the HIT men scramble. It brings to mind the great movie, "Lord of the Flies," in which a bunch of shipwrecked boys, left to their own devices, created a sort of Pagan society amongst themselves. Some of the Jedi who are more vocal than most, having written many passionate articles or books on their own cute little variants of the old Jones theory, bear mention. How they refer to each other as "Jedi" (which, I'm assured, means "priest") is yet more proof that HIT is a Pagan religion. I must say, however, I admire their zeal for lifting (albeit at a sub-par level)!

    Meaning to cast no dispersion on these well-meaning gentlemen by identifying them to the readership of this website, and acknowledging that not all those listed may care to admit to, and in fact vehemently deny their Pagan beliefs (until after the cock crows), here they are in alphabetical order (this is neither an exhaustive listing, nor is it mine -- it came from their web site):

    Matt Brzycki (strength coach at Princeton University);
    Ellington Darden, Ph.D. (Jones' longtime science advisor);
    Ken Leistner, D.C. (New York chiro who runs a gym there);
    Ken Mannie (strength coach at Michigan State);
    Stuart McRobert (publishes a "Hardgainer" newsletter);
    Mike Mentzer (now deceased, former bodybuilder who fabricated his own "Heavy Duty" interpretation of Arthur's disproved tenets);
    Dan Riley (strength coach of the Washington Redskins);
    Rob Spector (keeper of a HIT web site); and
    Wayne Westcott, Ph.D. (a YMCA fitness director)
    Kim Wood (strength coach of the Cincinnati Bengals)
    The Jedi also claim as disciples, bodybuilding converts such as Dorian Yates, Ray Mentzer and Casey Viator.
    Just as Protestants split from Rome, some Jedi have gone their own way to create their own denominations of the HIT religion. The religious wrinkles provided by the various denominations after their split from Rome are quite interesting reading. I mentioned Mike Mentzer's "Heavy Duty" system of training in a previous article in this series -- really no different than HIT with a few funky (read: "mystical") wrinkles added.
    There's also the "Superslow" system created by the Protestant HIT Jedi Ken Hutchins, who actually provides a fitness trainer certification in his system (which can be yours for as little as $495.00). His peculiar wrinkle to HIT theory has to do with friction. Says he:

    "When you pull a trigger on a rifle or gun, you're supposed to pull with a slow, steady squeeze to the rear - if you jerk the trigger than the shot will be off. Same thing when lifting weights - each repetition should be a slow, steady squeeze of the muscle with no jerking.

    "...if an exercise has little friction, it's better to use a longer negative as you don't get the "partial respite" that you would from an exercise with lots of friction."

    Utter nonsense, of course...a topic for a future article, I'm afraid (space constraints, you know). Now I'd like to introduce you to the HIT commandments and some pointed comments on each relative to the seven grand daddy laws.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Ten HIT Commandments according to Jedi Brzycki:
    1. Train With A High Level Of Intensity.
    "Intensity," according to HIT dogma, "relates to the degree of the "inroads"--or amount of fatigue--you've made into your muscle at any given instant. In the weight room, a high level of intensity is characterized by performing an exercise to the point of concentric muscular failure: when you've exhausted your muscles to the extent that you literally cannot raise the weight for any more repetitions. Failure to reach a desirable level of intensity--or muscular fatigue--will result in little or no gains in functional strength or muscular size. After reaching concentric muscular failure, you can increase the intensity even further by performing 3 to 5 additional post-fatigue repetitions. These post-fatigue reps may be either negatives or regressions and will allow you to overload your muscles in a safe, efficient manner."
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
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    Bridgeport Ct.
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    There is no question that going to failure can constitute a more "intense" workout. But, in the real world -- in the gym -- intensity is so much more than that. Webster defines intensity as having or showing the characteristic of strength, force, straining, or (relative to a bodybuilder's focal point) other aspects of his or her effort to a maximum degree. The words intense and intent both have the same Latin root, intendere "to stretch out." If one is intent on doing something, he does so, by definition, with strained or eager attention -- with concentration! That intensity of effort is largely a function of the mind is not this writer's opinion. It is true by definition as well as by practical usage of the word! "Intensity" is increased by:

    amplification of mental effort -- getting "psyched"
    approaching your training with a burning passion, as though it were your LIFE
    adding reps
    adding weight (this is the common definition of intensity)
    decreasing rest between reps
    decreasing rest between sets
    increasing the number of exercises per body part
    increasing the total number of exercises or body parts trained at one session
    increasing the number of training sessions per day
    increasing the speed of movement
    increasing the amount of work done at the anaerobic threshold (maximum pain tolerance)
    increasing the amount of eccentric work your muscles are required to perform.
    Perhaps most importantly, going to failure is NOT a prerequisite to adaptation!
    The SAID Principle is violated by the first commandment of HIT. Their idea is to go to failure all the time, but certain "specific" training objectives mitigate against it (e.g., speed training). And, the GAS Principle, which states that there must be a period of low intensity training or complete rest following periods of high intensity training, is violated. These guys go to failure all the time!


    2. Attempt To Increase The Resistance Used Or The Repetitions Performed Every Workout.
    "...every time you work out you should attempt to increase either the weight you use or the repetitions you perform in relation to your previous workout. This can be viewed as a "double progressive" technique (resistance and repetitions). Challenging your muscles in this manner will force them to adapt to the imposed demands (or stress)."

    The SAID Principle is violated. Sometimes, lighter weights done rapidly is required. And sometimes heavier weights done for 3 reps is required. (If your training requires that you go to failure with a weight that's so heavy you can only do three reps, you are BEGGING for a MAJOR injury if that takes you to failure!) The GAS Principle is also violated. Alternating periods of high versus low intensity is a better way to go. If you wait until total recovery is accomplished in any given muscle, atrophy place.

    3. Perform 1 To 3 Sets Of Each Exercise.
    "...numerous research studies -- which I once again am probably viewed as dreaming up--have shown that there are no significant differences when performing either one, two or three sets of an exercise..."

    Yep! You're dreaming pal! Dr. Richard Berger (my mentor during my doctoral studies at Temple) years ago showed that there IS a significant improvement in gains with three sets as opposed to one. Other studies have shown the same results. Nowadays, many athletes (bodybuilders included) do as many as 10 or more sets. Even Arthur Jones --the original HIT man --showed that people with white, fast-twitch muscles require fewer reps, sets and workouts per week than people with predominantly red, slow-twitch muscles.

    Apparently, all HIT men are white muscle fiber guys? I think not! So, while none of the seven laws are violated here, some (especially the overload principle and the SAID principle) are not being applied to their maximum potential.

    4. Reach Concentric Muscular Failure Within A Prescribed Number Of Repetitions.
    "Repetition ranges differ from body part to body part and from coach to coach. In the course of training hundreds of collegiate athletes over the past eleven years, these are the ranges I usually assign: 15 to 20 (hip exercises), 10 to 15 (leg exercises) and 6 to 12 (upper body exercises). Other HIT strength coaches are pretty much in that neighborhood, with a few electing slightly lower ranges but not less than six."

    Woah! You guys should be blushing on this one! The SAID principle is quite specific in recognizing that not everyone is alike. Not everyone responds in the same way to any given rep/set scheme. Look again at my response to Commandment Three.

    5. Perform Each Repetition With Proper Technique.
    "A quality rep is performed by raising and lowering the weight in a deliberate, controlled manner. Lifting a weight in a rapid, explosive fashion is ill-advised for two reasons: (1) it exposes your muscles, joint structures and connective tissue to potentially dangerous forces which magnify the likelihood of an injury while strength training, and (2) it introduces momentum into the movement which makes the exercise less productive and less efficient. Lifting a weight in about 1 to 2 seconds will guarantee that you're exercising in a safe, efficient manner. It should take about 3 to 4 seconds to lower the weight back to the starting/stretched position."

    First, I grow weary of the HIT business of being "safe." Where in the book does it say that going slow and deliberate with a heavy weight is safer? I think otherwise. And, certainly, these slow, deliberate movements are not as effective as other methods in many instances. SOME reps are well performed in the manner described above. However, this commandment clearly disregards the importance of cheating movements, explosive lifting (e.g., the Olympic lifts), and many other techniques of lifting. Further, slow, deliberate movements are nowhere NEAR as effective for forcing an adaptive response in connective tissues as are more explosive (and yes, often "ballistic") movements. So much for their claim to "safety!" Deinhibition of the Golgi tendon organ's protective feedback loop can be moved back far more effectively with controlled ballistic movements than with slow, deliberate movements. Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Overcompensation, Specificity and SAID principles.

    6. Strength Train For No More Than One Hour Per Workout.
    "If you are training with a high level of intensity--and you should--you literally cannot exercise for a long period of time. ...Training with a minimal amount of recovery time between exercises will elicit a metabolic conditioning effect that cannot be approached by traditional multiple set programs. Don't ask me why cause I've been makin' all this stuff up as I go along."

    Ol' Jedi Brzycki continues to put his sandalled foot on top of his golden tongue. Here, I think (one can't really tell) he's claiming that doing one set of squats, then one set of benches, then one set of pulldowns, then one set of curls, and one set of 3, 4, 5 or so additional exercises, and you're outta the gym. C'mon!

    Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Overcompensation, Specificity and SAID principles. Re-read my response to Commandment Three. People are DIFFERENT!

    7. Emphasize The Major Muscle Groups.
    "The focal point for most of your exercises should be your major muscle groups (i.e. your hips, legs and upper torso)."

    Oh? Have we lost sight of training weaknesses first? Bodybuilders know this instinctively. Most athletes do as well. Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Specificity and SAID principles.

    8. Whenever Possible, Work Your Muscles From Largest To Smallest.
    "Exercise your hips first, then go to your legs (hams, quads and calves or dorsi flexors), upper torso (chest, upper back and shoulders), arms (biceps, triceps and forearms), abs and finally your low back."

    Duhhhhh! Am I missing something? In the Eighth Commandment, you told us NOT to focus on smaller muscles! In addition to violating one of your own commandments, this commandment is in violation of the Specificity and SAID principles.

    9. Strength Train 2 To 3 Times Per Week On Nonconsecutive Days.
    "...a period of about 48 to 72 hours is necessary for muscle tissue to recover sufficiently from a strength workout. A period of at least 48 hours is also required to replenish your depleted carbohydrate stores. ...Performing any more than three sessions a week can gradually become counterproductive due to a catabolic effect. This occurs when the demands you have placed on your muscles have exceeded you recovery ability. Recovery time is adequate if you continue making gains."

    Sometimes 48-72 hours is sufficient, and sometimes it's not. Depending upon the muscle involved it may be less or it may be more. Remember:

    Big muscles take longer to recover than smaller ones
    Fast twitch muscles (your "explosive" muscles) take longer to recover than slow twitch muscle fibers ("endurance" muscles);
    Guys recover faster than girls;
    You recover faster from slow movements than from fast movements;
    You recover faster from low intensity training than from high intensity training.
    The older you get, the longer it takes to recover
    By carbohydrate stores, do you mean glycogen? Not 48 hours...something closer to 2 or 3 hours!
    I, and every athlete I've ever trained, often trained twice a day! The Russian athletes do, the Bulgarian weightlifters train 3-6 times a day! And, even if there were (as Bryzcki put it) a "catabolic" effect, wouldn't that call for a "periodized approach to training?

    Grand daddy laws violated with this one are the SAID, GAS and Specificity Principles.

    10. Keep Accurate Records Of Your Performance.
    "Records are a log of what you've accomplished during each and every strength session. Record keeping can be an extremely valuable tool to monitor progress and make your workouts more meaningful. It can also be used to identify exercises in which a plateau has been reached."

    OK. I'll give the HIT men this one.

    On the other hand, HIT folk will have to use their logs to refer back more often than other (non-HIT) trainees. They're bound to be hitting plateaus a lot more than others.

    Jedi Bryzcki ended his "Sermon On The Web" with these words:

    "Don't be misled by the brevity or simplicity of a program that calls for one set of an exercise done with a high level of intensity. Strength Coach Ken Mannie has stated that HIT is "the most productive, most efficient and without a doubt, the most demanding form of strength training known to man [and woman]." Of course, I read that in Nautilus magazine. And Mannie was drunk at the time."

    Need I say more?
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.
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    Sidebar:
    HIT Jedi Matt Brzycki posted these gems in the HIT Web Site:
    "...HIT received a lot of attention--and created quite a controversial maelstrom--in 1970 with the publication of numerous articles written by Nautilus founder Arthur Jones. Although Jones didn't invent HIT, there's no question that he certainly was the one who popularized it and formally suggested guidelines and principles for its use.

    "Jones has mellowed with age but I got some laughs a few months ago when I saw him insult a group of unsuspecting sportsmedicine people with his trademark brash comments and demeanor. Anyway .

    "...what was seen was rarely a pretty sight. In fact, it was kinda ugly. Rarely were more than two sets of an exercise performed--and never more than three. You really couldn't do much more anyway. The level of intensity suggested by Jones was performing each exercise to the point of muscular failure.

    "If you were too exhausted to crawl--which was sometimes the case--you were physically grabbed and dragged to the next exercise. Jones' opinion of an acceptable level of intensity might best be summed up with one of his many colorful quotes: "Have you ever vomited as a result of doing one set of [biceps] curls? If not, then you simply don't know what hard work is. Ahh, those were the days."
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.
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    Anyone here old enough to remember the Cybergenics Phase One and 60-Day Total Bodybuilding programs? It wasn't just about failure. Everything was pushed to negative failure. I remember my training partner being exhausted after every workout from spotting me. I can't see myself ever training like that again because it was brutal.
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  27. #27
    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Great stuff.

    He comes across as bat**** crazy(not always a bad thing, but sometimes not inspired, just bat****....). Supposed to have threatened Casey Viator with a revolver during the latter's comeback doing everything to failure when he supposedly gained 60+lbs of muscle.
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  28. #28
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by desame.one View Post
    Anyone here old enough to remember the Cybergenics Phase One and 60-Day Total Bodybuilding programs? It wasn't just about failure. Everything was pushed to negative failure. I remember my training partner being exhausted after every workout from spotting me. I can't see myself ever training like that again because it was brutal.
    I'm old enough to remember that. I don't train like that anymore because it doesn't work, what I do now is just a brutal, if not more.
    6'8" 306 pounds

    Wasatch Front Strongman Challenge
    750 pound frame deadlift
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxi3B9jW9xc

    Sin City Strongman Challenge 2013 Masters Champion.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkaiOUxcdH4
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  29. #29
    Registered User nixter's Avatar
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    I do sets to failure currently with 2 warm up sets as well. Works great for me. If I can do more than 6 reps the weight goes up next time.
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  30. #30
    Registered User m_risinger's Avatar
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    warmup sets and 1 set to failure, nothing else is better or I'd do a 2nd set.
    Starting to do one set 10 up and 10 down or close to it now with pre exhaustion and love it
    I am Kingfish. Im am ttwarrior1,
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