So is it's just as easy as 5-7 exercises?

[Andre4000]

Since I began weight training 3 months ago with the goal of getting more ripped than bulky (6'1'' 187lbs, hoping to stay around that weight while losing fat and gain some muscle), the only compound exercises I've been doing are squats, bench press, and chin-ups. These exercises seem to be working my muscles much better than all the isolation crap I've been doing for my back, arms, and shoulders- my chest and legs never fail to get sore the day after working them.

According to the prevailing viewpoint of this forum, I've been wasting my time doing pushdowns, pullovers, leg extensions, lateral raises, rear delt raises, seated cable raises, cable pulldowns, dumbbell shoulder presses, dumbbell flies, hammer curls, etc.

Is it really just as simple as doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead barbell presses, bent-over barbell rows, and chin-ups?

Coupled with proper diet designed to meet one's goals, this routine will give better results than isolation exercises and will not neglect any shoulder/back/ or arm muscles? This is true no matter if someone is cutting or bulking?

If someone does pretty much just these 6 lifts for 1 year there will be no problem during that time due to not switching the routine up, provided reps/weight are added incrementally?

If all this is true, why even respond to anyone on here asking about isolation exercises if they haven't been weight training already for 2+ years with full body routines?

[StephenWA]

My routine has compound and isolation lifts, and it's only 7 lifts. It's simple, effective, and proven... and it's so respected that it is the first sticky of the forum.

[grumble1]

I'd assume it's because they read muscle magazines.

Isolation exercises can be useful after less than two years, but they're intended as finishing and tuning exercises, not the foundation of a program.

[Mr._Happy]

It can be that simple if all you want is increased strength and a generally better appearance. If you really want to bodybuild, though, you might want to throw in a few of those isos.


Also, beware your medial and rear delts.

[Pull14]

Since I began weight training 3 months ago with the goal of getting more ripped than bulky (6'1'' 187lbs, hoping to stay around that weight while losing fat and gain some muscle), the only compound exercises I've been doing are squats, bench press, and chin-ups. These exercises seem to be working my muscles much better than all the isolation crap I've been doing for my back, arms, and shoulders- my chest and legs never fail to get sore the day after working them.

According to the prevailing viewpoint of this forum, I've been wasting my time doing pushdowns, pullovers, leg extensions, lateral raises, rear delt raises, seated cable raises, cable pulldowns, dumbbell shoulder presses, dumbbell flies, hammer curls, etc.

Is it really just as simple as doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead barbell presses, bent-over barbell rows, and chin-ups?

Coupled with proper diet designed to meet one's goals, this routine will give better results than isolation exercises and will not neglect any shoulder/back/ or arm muscles? This is true no matter if someone is cutting or bulking?

If someone does pretty much just these 6 lifts for 1 year there will be no problem during that time due to not switching the routine up, provided reps/weight are added incrementally?

If all this is true, why even respond to anyone on here asking about isolation exercises if they haven't been weight training already for 2+ years with full body routines?

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can be used effective if done correctly. To may people think that the only way to get big bicep/triceps is to beat the hell out of them with a many different variations of the same lift for tons of reps and sets.

Those 7 lifts you mentioned above are used for years on end, or variations of those lifts to continue to make progress in strength and hypertrophy. The thing that makes this possible is deloads, occasional changes in set/rep programing, and proper rest and diet. *When I say variation, the general movement remains the same, but aspects are changed, wider or narrows grips, wide or narrow stances on squats, going from a barbell squat to a safety bar squat, etc.*

Isolation exercises grow in importance as one becomes a more developed lifter when specific weaknesses in certain body parts can be noticed and possibly corrected with the addition of "isolation" lifts. The rate of development for each person is different, but generally isolation stuff isn't required until the individual reaches an intermediate phase. Once that does happen, isolation lifts should be added conservatively, as to increase strength or hypertrophy but not to take away from for the goal or take away from other things required to achieve that goal.

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can aid training, but more times then not they are miss used. I feel a lot of more experienced lifters just avoid suggesting isolation lifts to newer lifters because A) there will be little benefit, there will be more strength and muscle gain from benching and dips or rows and pull ups then curls and extensions because the former lifts put a lot more stress on the muscles/cns that the later. B) Newer lifters will add to much isolation which will take away from the main/big lifts.

Have you wasted your time? Maybe... maybe not. Only time and strict observation will tell - this means logs with lifts, sets, reps, and weight. Over time you'll see that by taking this out or adding that in you make more, less, or negitive progress. For instance, I recently found out that I had stronger pull ups when the week before I'd do one all out set of DB rows (kroc rows) compared to 4 sets of DB rows with the same weight. While not going all out, keeping reps much lower, the added volume (a lot more total reps) took away from my pull ups.
If your going to add isolation lifts, thats fine, but its important to start low and build up slow. Also have an idea of the progression you'll be following for these lifts. Start with just two days of isolation lift, one exercise for those two days and use a low weight for 2-3 sets. Example: Day 1 - Curls 3x10x45, Day 3 - Tricep extension 3x10x45.

[BrazZzuKa]

Dont forget one of the best or even "THE" best exercice Ever the Barbell Deadlift.

You are most certainly right only Need, Squat, Dead, Bench or Dip and Pull ups to have a great workout.

Isolation are just a waste of time , unless you are doing Competition you might need to add the 1 or 2 exercice. Not necessary at all for the Average Joe ..

[boathead]

Is it really just as simple as doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead barbell presses, bent-over barbell rows, and chin-ups?

the magic 6.

one can go far doing just them. good job, grasshopper.

[MDPower75]

I think that in terms of most beginners and intermediates it really is that simple. Just overload and basic compound exercises. But, isolation exercises have their place when developing a weakness. It's just that most beginners are one entire weakspot. So, why concentrate on your lat spread when everything is weak.

I had some postural issues that were giving me issues. I started doing more work (on top of my normal routine) specifically for the rhomboids and lower traps, and viola! the pain went away. So, they can definitely be helpful when applied properly. It's just that most beginners don't know how to do that.

[Dertygen]

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can be used effective if done correctly. To may people think that the only way to get big bicep/triceps is to beat the hell out of them with a many different variations of the same lift for tons of reps and sets.

Those 7 lifts you mentioned above are used for years on end, or variations of those lifts to continue to make progress in strength and hypertrophy. The thing that makes this possible is deloads, occasional changes in set/rep programing, and proper rest and diet. *When I say variation, the general movement remains the same, but aspects are changed, wider or narrows grips, wide or narrow stances on squats, going from a barbell squat to a safety bar squat, etc.*

Isolation exercises grow in importance as one becomes a more developed lifter when specific weaknesses in certain body parts can be noticed and possibly corrected with the addition of "isolation" lifts. The rate of development for each person is different, but generally isolation stuff isn't required until the individual reaches an intermediate phase. Once that does happen, isolation lifts should be added conservatively, as to increase strength or hypertrophy but not to take away from for the goal or take away from other things required to achieve that goal.

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can aid training, but more times then not they are miss used. I feel a lot of more experienced lifters just avoid suggesting isolation lifts to newer lifters because A) there will be little benefit, there will be more strength and muscle gain from benching and dips or rows and pull ups then curls and extensions because the former lifts put a lot more stress on the muscles/cns that the later. B) Newer lifters will add to much isolation which will take away from the main/big lifts.

Have you wasted your time? Maybe... maybe not. Only time and strict observation will tell - this means logs with lifts, sets, reps, and weight. Over time you'll see that by taking this out or adding that in you make more, less, or negitive progress. For instance, I recently found out that I had stronger pull ups when the week before I'd do one all out set of DB rows (kroc rows) compared to 4 sets of DB rows with the same weight. While not going all out, keeping reps much lower, the added volume (a lot more total reps) took away from my pull ups.
If your going to add isolation lifts, thats fine, but its important to start low and build up slow. Also have an idea of the progression you'll be following for these lifts. Start with just two days of isolation lift, one exercise for those two days and use a low weight for 2-3 sets. Example: Day 1 - Curls 3x10x45, Day 3 - Tricep extension 3x10x45.

This.

I posted something akin to this just yesterday however far from being as well versed or spoken.

[zephed56]

It's simple, but not easy.

[pogen]

Is it really just as simple as doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead barbell presses, bent-over barbell rows, and chin-ups?

Let's see, you got your...
- full body push (squats)
- full body pull (deadlifts)
- horizontal push (bench press)
- horizontal pull (rows)
- vertical push (overhead press)
- vertical pull (chins)

... 'bout right.

[Slow-N-Steady]

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can be used effective if done correctly. To may people think that the only way to get big bicep/triceps is to beat the hell out of them with a many different variations of the same lift for tons of reps and sets.

Those 7 lifts you mentioned above are used for years on end, or variations of those lifts to continue to make progress in strength and hypertrophy. The thing that makes this possible is deloads, occasional changes in set/rep programing, and proper rest and diet. *When I say variation, the general movement remains the same, but aspects are changed, wider or narrows grips, wide or narrow stances on squats, going from a barbell squat to a safety bar squat, etc.*

Isolation exercises grow in importance as one becomes a more developed lifter when specific weaknesses in certain body parts can be noticed and possibly corrected with the addition of "isolation" lifts. The rate of development for each person is different, but generally isolation stuff isn't required until the individual reaches an intermediate phase. Once that does happen, isolation lifts should be added conservatively, as to increase strength or hypertrophy but not to take away from for the goal or take away from other things required to achieve that goal.

Isolation exercises have their purpose and can aid training, but more times then not they are miss used. I feel a lot of more experienced lifters just avoid suggesting isolation lifts to newer lifters because A) there will be little benefit, there will be more strength and muscle gain from benching and dips or rows and pull ups then curls and extensions because the former lifts put a lot more stress on the muscles/cns that the later. B) Newer lifters will add to much isolation which will take away from the main/big lifts.

Have you wasted your time? Maybe... maybe not. Only time and strict observation will tell - this means logs with lifts, sets, reps, and weight. Over time you'll see that by taking this out or adding that in you make more, less, or negitive progress. For instance, I recently found out that I had stronger pull ups when the week before I'd do one all out set of DB rows (kroc rows) compared to 4 sets of DB rows with the same weight. While not going all out, keeping reps much lower, the added volume (a lot more total reps) took away from my pull ups.
If your going to add isolation lifts, thats fine, but its important to start low and build up slow. Also have an idea of the progression you'll be following for these lifts. Start with just two days of isolation lift, one exercise for those two days and use a low weight for 2-3 sets. Example: Day 1 - Curls 3x10x45, Day 3 - Tricep extension 3x10x45.

Thank you for an educated post....so tired of the useless post bashing isolation exercises simply because it's the popular thing to do around here.

Fullbody can lay a great foundation of mass and strength with the use of fundamentals...will you become a competitive bodybuilder with ONLY compound exercises? Highly doubtful. It all depends on where you are at and what your goals are.