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  1. #1
    Registered User Majin_Buu's Avatar
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    Muscle mass gain = light weight, more reps, less rest?

    coming up to easter I want to have a good 3 months on a bulk, is lighter weights the way to go for mass and shape? also eating in a calorie surplus too


    OH, BY LESS REST I MEAN LESS REST TIME BETWEEN sets lol
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    coming up to easter I want to have a good 3 months on a bulk, is lighter weights the way to go for mass and shape? also eating in a calorie surplus too


    OH, BY LESS REST I MEAN LESS REST TIME BETWEEN sets lol
    Rep range is dependent on weight. You want to use a weight that you are only able to perform 6-8 reps with. No more.
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    Originally Posted by nixter View Post
    Rep range is dependent on weight. You want to use a weight that you are only able to perform 6-8 reps with. No more.
    6-8? isn't that strength training range?
    Thought it's important to get a pump and look for 'hypertrophy', correct me if im wrong here
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    6-15. 6-8 is on the lower end. I usually prefer 8-12. I usually don't go under 8 unless it's like Deads.

    OP, muscle mass has more to do with your diet then your weight training routine.
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    Thought it's important to get a pump and look for 'hypertrophy'
    The pump means nothing in terms of being any indication that you're building muscle. IMHO, I specifically try not to get a pump unless I'm recovering from a mild injury, in that case the extra blood flow can help recovery.
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  6. #6
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    OH, BY LESS REST I MEAN LESS REST TIME BETWEEN sets lol
    If you're trying to build muscle, IMHO take as much rest as necessary to be able to move the most weight possible.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    6-8? isn't that strength training range?
    Thought it's important to get a pump and look for 'hypertrophy', correct me if im wrong here
    4-6 are considered the strength range. I use 6-8 as a guide and go to failure. This usually means I'm squeezing out 9 or 10 reps. Then I add weight next time. If your diet and rest are in order you can have pretty linear progression this way until near the end of your training cycle. It's kind of a hybrid strength/mass system but it's working extremely well for me.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    6-15. 6-8 is on the lower end. I usually prefer 8-12. I usually don't go under 8 unless it's like Deads.

    OP, muscle mass has more to do with your diet then your weight training routine.
    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    If you're trying to build muscle, IMHO take as much rest as necessary to be able to move the most weight possible.
    Originally Posted by nixter View Post
    4-6 are considered the strength range. I use 6-8 as a guide and go to failure. This usually means I'm squeezing out 9 or 10 reps. Then I add weight next time. If your diet and rest are in order you can have pretty linear progression this way until near the end of your training cycle. It's kind of a hybrid strength/mass system but it's working extremely well for me.
    I agree diet has to be a major factor here. How much of a calorie surplus must someone need on a daily basis. Take me for example, My maintenence on a normal day without training is average 2500 I think (5 foot 8, 168Ibs)

    Whats too much and whats too little extra cals
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  9. #9
    Registered User d218's Avatar
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    im adding muscle doing a 5x5 .. i think you should lift as heavy as possible
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    Originally Posted by d218 View Post
    im adding muscle doing a 5x5 .. i think you should lift as heavy as possible
    im sorry im quite new to these workout routines, i know how to work out safely and correctly but i dont know the plans lol whats a 5x5?
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  11. #11
    Chubby Chasing Bait! MDPower75's Avatar
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    Reps from 1-20 should work!

    Seriously, All the crap about hypertrophy v.s. strength reps is just that....crap. Strength work increases hypertrophy and hypertrophy increases strength. I do most of my work at 5 or less reps. But, there are still times when I go to 10+. I'm gaining muscle like a fiend.....it's certainly not because 20% of my reps happen to be between 8-12.
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    If you're trying to build muscle, IMHO take as much rest as necessary to be able to move the most weight possible.
    WTF

    Lmfao, dude doesn't the "pump" deliver nutrients in the blood to the muscles your working out? So for one, it is kinda important, and 2, if no nutrients are getting to your muscles, or your not getting that pump or TRYING NOT to get the pump, most likely your taking too long in between sets and that's how your not getting it...

    Idk man but that's crazy, never heard anyone say that but...meh
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Zero-Kelvin View Post
    WTF

    Lmfao, dude doesn't the "pump" deliver nutrients in the blood to the muscles your working out? So for one, it is kinda important, and 2, if no nutrients are getting to your muscles, or your not getting that pump or TRYING NOT to get the pump, most likely your taking too long in between sets and that's how your not getting it...

    Idk man but that's crazy, never heard anyone say that but...meh
    well i think its important, im in my first year of a sports science degree.. hell i may not be the most knowledgable atm, but i have just been taught by a professional sports doctor that hypertrophy and 'the pump' are important for muscle mass growth.. not strength... muscle mass growth.

    either my doctor is a bull****ter or i didnt pay attention..ah well, i passed the module tho
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    Chubby Chasing Bait! MDPower75's Avatar
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    The "pump" is important for sacroplasmic hypertrophy. Sarcoplasm is about 20% of your total muscle mass. Heavy weight is important for myofibrillar hypertrophy. Myofibril's make up about 80% of your muscle mass. This is overly simplistic, but it illustrates why load is more important than volume.
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    Originally Posted by MDPower75 View Post
    The "pump" is important for sacroplasmic hypertrophy. Sarcoplasm is about 20% of your total muscle mass. Heavy weight is important for myofibrillar hypertrophy. Myofibril's make up about 80% of your muscle mass. This is overly simplistic, but it illustrates why load is more important than volume.
    so is it good to get a pump going on a certain part of the body, and then lift heavy for a few exercises? if so how heavy do you go in regard to a % of your max
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  16. #16
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zero-Kelvin View Post

    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    If you're trying to build muscle, IMHO take as much rest as necessary to be able to move the most weight possible.
    WTF

    Lmfao, dude doesn't the "pump" deliver nutrients in the blood to the muscles your working out? So for one, it is kinda important, and 2, if no nutrients are getting to your muscles, or your not getting that pump or TRYING NOT to get the pump, most likely your taking too long in between sets and that's how your not getting it...

    Idk man but that's crazy, never heard anyone say that but...meh
    OK, little man, you MUST be right given you squat a whole 50 pounds more than your bodyweight. I'm sure there are quite a few things you've never heard anybody say, but of course with all your training experience you know everything.
    Last edited by bigtallox; 03-02-2010 at 01:24 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Zero-Kelvin View Post
    WTF

    Lmfao, dude doesn't the "pump" deliver nutrients in the blood to the muscles your working out? So for one, it is kinda important, and 2, if no nutrients are getting to your muscles, or your not getting that pump or TRYING NOT to get the pump, most likely your taking too long in between sets and that's how your not getting it...

    Idk man but that's crazy, never heard anyone say that but...meh
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    Originally Posted by ricohitman View Post
    Oh hay guise. Troll in da house.
    so whats the truth then? should i lift heavy straight away in my work out?
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    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    The pump means nothing in terms of being any indication that you're building muscle. IMHO, I specifically try not to get a pump unless I'm recovering from a mild injury, in that case the extra blood flow can help recovery.
    Originally Posted by bigtallox View Post
    If you're trying to build muscle, IMHO take as much rest as necessary to be able to move the most weight possible.
    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    so whats the truth then? should i lift heavy straight away in my work out?
    Lift heavy. Listen to bigtallox. He knows what he is talking about.
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  20. #20
    NAS Strongman bigtallox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ricohitman View Post
    Lift heavy. Listen to bigtallox. He knows what he is talking about.
    The reason I say I specifically (normally) avoid the pump, is because for me to get pumped up I need to take really light weight and do 20+ reps. That does nothing for building muscle, at least not for me at my stage. Perhaps once I'm more advanced, it may be different, but my body responds to lifting heavy for low reps ( which doesn't give me a pump ) so that's what I do.

    At one point I had a little bicep tendonitis, which training for the pump ( ie really light bicep curls, ie 50 pound dumbbells, for high reps ) seemed to help clear up. Maybe it didn't, but I'm pretty sure it did.
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    USAW-L1SP CYTX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    so whats the truth then? should i lift heavy straight away in my work out?
    Do both for heavens sake. Eat a **** ton of good calories and lift for both size and strength. We always start our athlete's workouts with a compound lift for strength followed by accessory lifts based on volume or "pump" with reps topping out at about 20.

    Too many people are either or. You can do both you know.
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    Registered User d218's Avatar
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    I believe yu should incorporate a variety rep ranges. Find what works for you. I have found that for my purposes I stick to rather lower rep ranges. I usually never go above 8 and usually stay around the 3-6 range. As long as you are using compound movements and have a solid diet yOu will grow. Just. Be consistent in the gym
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    5 5 5+ grlight's Avatar
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    try this.

    10 reps for 3 months then 8 reps for 3 months then 6 reps for 3 months.Simple but u will gain big doing that.
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    Originally Posted by grlight View Post
    try this.

    10 reps for 3 months then 8 reps for 3 months then 6 reps for 3 months.Simple but u will gain big doing that.
    A simplified HST routine. I like it. Although I've often wondered if doing the reverse would yield better results? 6/8/10. Or actually I would prefer 4/8/12 but you get the idea. I feel like making the strength gains first makes more sense.
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    Originally Posted by CYTX View Post
    Do both for heavens sake. Eat a **** ton of good calories and lift for both size and strength. We always start our athlete's workouts with a compound lift for strength followed by accessory lifts based on volume or "pump" with reps topping out at about 20.

    Too many people are either or. You can do both you know.

    You said eat a f**k ton of good calories -- even when lifting for muscle mass and strength training (as noted in this thread), will you still put on BF?
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    Originally Posted by Majin_Buu View Post
    coming up to easter I want to have a good 3 months on a bulk, is lighter weights the way to go for mass and shape? also eating in a calorie surplus too


    OH, BY LESS REST I MEAN LESS REST TIME BETWEEN sets lol
    Short rests, high reps & fatigue work generally is used for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, ie increasing the gooey filler and glyogen storage in your muscles.. This is the fastest way to gain a small to moderate of muscle but it's a transient adaptation and has a quickly reached upper limit of how far you can take it.

    Progression = sarcomere/myofibrillar hypertrphy, ie real permanent tissue growth. And that's best achieved by sticking to rep ranges where you can maintain full concentration and form for a given exercise. The exact rep range will vary for the individual and the lift but somewhere about 5 is a good middle ground and rest periods should be as long as you need to get the reps you need in.

    The more advanced you get the more useful fatigue style work becomes in addition to your progression work since progression gains will become increasingly hard to come by. Novices and early intermediates can still get stronger so fast they have no reason to spend time putting icing on their cake since the flan is growing by the week, though as CYTX says a little timed rep work on accessories at the end won't kill you.
    Last edited by Hut*Hut; 03-02-2010 at 05:01 PM.
    To guys starting out - please understand: when you can deadlift 450lb for 10 reps your back, hamstrings & traps will reflect THAT not which program you used to get there. When you can curl 150 for 10, your biceps will reflect THAT, not which program, rep range or method you used to get there. There is no voodoo independent of poundage progression, just faster and slower ways of getting to your next pit stop.
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    Originally Posted by Beschatten View Post
    You said eat a f**k ton of good calories -- even when lifting for muscle mass and strength training (as noted in this thread), will you still put on BF?
    If you're eating a lot of garbage probably. Eat high quality whole foods and I doubt someone your size will notice much fat gain at all.
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    Originally Posted by Hut*Hut View Post
    Short rests, high reps & fatigue work generally is used for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, ie increasing the gooey filler and glyogen storage in your muscles.. This is the fastest way to gain a small to moderate of muscle but it's a transient adaptation and has a quickly reached upper limit of how far you can take it.

    Progression = sarcomere/myofibrillar hypertrphy, ie real permanent tissue growth. And that's best achieved by sticking to rep ranges where you can maintain full concentration and form for a given exercise. The exact rep range will vary for the individual and the lift but somewhere about 5 is a good middle ground and rest periods should be as long as you need to get the reps you need in.

    The more advanced you get the more useful fatigue style work becomes in addition to your progression work since progression gains will become increasingly hard to come by. Novices and early intermediates can still get stronger so fast they have no reason to spend time putting icing on their cake since the flan is growing by the week, though as CYTX says a little timed rep work on accessories at the end won't kill you.
    iv been writing some workout routines down on paper. so its good to mix a bit of strength and a bit of high reps?

    are supersets any good? like straight into another exercise
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  29. #29
    Registered User somebeast's Avatar
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    go high reps one day low reps the next this has been proven to be the best for strength gains so maybe its the best for mass as well
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by somebeast View Post
    go high reps one day low reps the next this has been proven to be the best for strength gains so maybe its the best for mass as well
    Evidence for this?
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