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  1. #1
    Registered User Primetime24's Avatar
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    Insane muscle knots

    So I have been having terrible knots in my pecs, back and traps for a while now. I went to PT for a few weeks and that helped big time with the knots in my pecs and back.. I picked up a foam roll and have been doing that regularly as well.

    HOWEVER...I CANNOT get rid of the knots in my traps...any suggestions for exercises or stretches or anything that may help? I would love to do some kind of shrugs but these knots are a killer

    Appreciate any advice you can lend
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  2. #2
    Registered User ebach20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Primetime24 View Post
    So I have been having terrible knots in my pecs, back and traps for a while now. I went to PT for a few weeks and that helped big time with the knots in my pecs and back.. I picked up a foam roll and have been doing that regularly as well.

    HOWEVER...I CANNOT get rid of the knots in my traps...any suggestions for exercises or stretches or anything that may help? I would love to do some kind of shrugs but these knots are a killer

    Appreciate any advice you can lend
    How do you foam role for your traps? Do you roll the foam roller with it being horizontal ( opposite spine ) or verticle? I found both worked knots out of my tips. It sucks but sometimes you have to just sit on them for a while. I've seen people use tennis balls and baseballs to get knots out as well. good luck
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  3. #3
    Registered User Primetime24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ebach20 View Post
    How do you foam role for your traps? Do you roll the foam roller with it being horizontal ( opposite spine ) or verticle? I found both worked knots out of my tips. It sucks but sometimes you have to just sit on them for a while. I've seen people use tennis balls and baseballs to get knots out as well. good luck
    I normally use the foam roll horizontal. I was thinking of putting 2 tennis balls in a sock to hit the traps better as I just seem to miss them with the foam roll. Its the top part of my traps then neck, so Im thinking the tennis balls may be best.
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  4. #4
    digger mc-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Primetime24 View Post
    So I have been having terrible knots in my pecs, back and traps for a while now. I went to PT for a few weeks and that helped big time with the knots in my pecs and back.. I picked up a foam roll and have been doing that regularly as well.

    HOWEVER...I CANNOT get rid of the knots in my traps...any suggestions for exercises or stretches or anything that may help? I would love to do some kind of shrugs but these knots are a killer

    Appreciate any advice you can lend
    knots - that can be a threat response.
    foam rolling is just manual therapy and lasts about as long.
    the question is this: if you have to keep foam rolling the same thing, are you fixing something or bandaiding it?

    You might want to consider getting a movement assessment to see what might be going on in your movements that's getting you tied up.

    And failing that, getting a movement practice happening. I personally like z-health as an approach.
    here's more about movement in general and why that's important for helping keep the knots down
    http://www.begin2dig.com/2009/10/mov...l-path-to.html

    and z-health in particular
    http://www.begin2dig.com/2009/09/b2d...hat-is-it.html

    and a colleague's neurological notes on foam rolling
    http://miketnelson.blogspot.com/2008...am-roller.html

    hope that helps
    mc
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  5. #5
    Registered User bocadillodelomo's Avatar
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    u might want to try trigger point massage therapy. My traps were a major and chronic problem for me and i can trace it back to why. As a kid i was on the chubbier side and always rolled my shoulders down as to not expose my shameful man boobs. And eventually that posture took over. Well i eventually hit puberty and played HS football and started weightlifting. It wasn't until recently about 2 years ago (so more than 8 years of lifting with improper form and posture and just overall jacked up knots everywhere) that i found out that no matter how much i focused on good posture, did yoga, went to PT, chiropractors, etc. my posture woudl always revert back to its ****ty position.

    I did tons of research and found out about trigger point and they have a theory of referral pain and satellite points. Where you start to build up smaller knots because of the original knots and your body's compensation for things. I always got massage and straightened out my back and my scapula because they were a big problem but i found out less than 8 months ago that my SOURCE were my traps. I went to a PT and he was like "holy crap" and pointed out how i have 2 balls (one inside each trap) the size of extra large AA eggs you find at the grocery store, hard as a ROCK. Needless to say, it took a **** ton of massage that is extremely painful at time to loosen those bad boys up and i still have a good amount left. Trigger point and deep massage really taxes your body. I'm still working to get these knots (they are scar tissue no doubt) broken up and dissolved and absorbed slowly for 1 hour sessions of deep trigger point every month or so. sometimes twice a month. Had i known i had to do that, i would've invested about 1g in straight up good massage every week and annihilated these a long time ago but instead i had to go to 6 different chiropractors, tried all sorts of massage therapists, PT, pilates, core workouts, personal training, not to mention all my personal research in biomechanics and anatomy.

    If i were you, id go to a massage place that offers trigger point and ask them if they remove knots. try a few of them out and see which ones work best for your knots and just invest some money and get that stuff done. Also some good stretches and not lifting for a while.

    Man, i can tell you the BIGGEST regret ever is not slowing things down and getting it fixed right once and for all. I was too busy lifting and gaining and just living life and brushed it off as something ill do later. I never ever wanted to give up lifting even after my PT said to stop heavy lifting. Guess i was addicted, and now i paid for it.

    if you continue to lift heavy (i did lots of cable shoulder lifts, militaries, dumbbell presses, rock climbing, etc) it will be real hard to reverse like me. I developed thoracic outlet syndrome which is just a scientific term for saying that your huge nerve coming from your CNS down under your clavicle through your first rib and your thoracic area, is literally compressing to death (and the arteries causing lightheadedness, etc) because of scar tissue and knots just jammin it up. I have neurological weakness in my fingers and my legs sometimes and just weird ****.

    hope this helps.
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  6. #6
    digger mc-'s Avatar
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    the advantage to using movement/mobility work rather than trigger points is that
    * it's active so there's motor learning involved
    * it also enhances movement patterns, so it puts the healing in the context of the work/movement that you do
    * movement work starts with causes rather than symptoms: knots are symptoms of something happening in what we do. So perhaps going higher up than The Knot may be more effective (and less traumatic) to the nervous system
    * performance enhancements are immediate (at the speed of the nervous system)
    * most particularly, it does not induce pain.

    Pain is in itself more threat, and induces a shut down response in the body which is not actually what one wants, and has other associated issues with it (http://bit.ly/1NMp2K)

    Here's the deal:
    cut open a corpse, look at the muscle tissue: are there knots? no.
    So knots are a response to SOMETHING -
    wouldn't it make more sense to address the something that's potentially causing the knots than the symptom?

    if a car is leaking oil, if someone just kept topping up the oil, would we think that person had found a solution to the problem?
    on the one hand Sure, Yes
    but on the other
    is it an optimal, or cost-effective solution over time??

    so, food for thought

    best
    mc
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  7. #7
    digger mc-'s Avatar
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    ps
    not surprised you can't get the knots out:
    if there's an issue that's unidentified that's causing this response, they'll only keep coming back, right?

    knots are a response.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Fututre117's Avatar
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    then what do you suggest to do for the knots because i have the same exact issue as the op and the guy who is talking about the massages
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  9. #9
    digger mc-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fututre117 View Post
    then what do you suggest to do for the knots because i have the same exact issue as the op and the guy who is talking about the massages
    best case: see a coach
    (here's a list of trainers:http://bit.ly/coVaX3)
    who can check your movement to see what the exact issues might be (i work with athletes all over the world via skype)

    middle option: start practicing some joint by joint mobility work.

    why: there's a model that says knots, etc are related to threat response in the nervous system, and active mobility sends lots of signals to the body about its wellbeing.(more here: http://www.begin2dig.com/2009/10/mov...l-path-to.html)

    without going into detail
    Pain is a signal for change; mobility often works as an appropriate change; active mobility also involves motor learning. this is a plus too for the nervous system. learning takes place; less chance of falling back into the patterns that cause the problems

    if you don't have a mobility approach right now, the one i've found that is the most precise is z-health. it's what we use with our elite athletes at my uni (we also use the FMS for assessments sometimes too, but z-health is the operational program).

    To get the two dvd's i'd recommend is about the same price as a pair of high end trainers. There's a 12 week program mapped out in it, so i'd recommend following it.

    here's a link to a bunch of info
    http://www.begin2dig.com/2009/09/b2d...hat-is-it.html

    You can find links to the rec'd dvd's there too, but it's the r-phase package i'd recommend
    http://bit.ly/aIxDeW

    best
    mc
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    rkcII, ck-fms, ikff ckt, Precision Nutrition Level 1 || meditatus radix/caveat emptor

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    Registered User chicabonita8's Avatar
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    acupuncture

    Originally Posted by bocadillodelomo View Post
    u might want to try trigger point massage therapy. My traps were a major and chronic problem for me and i can trace it back to why. As a kid i was on the chubbier side and always rolled my shoulders down as to not expose my shameful man boobs. And eventually that posture took over. Well i eventually hit puberty and played HS football and started weightlifting. It wasn't until recently about 2 years ago (so more than 8 years of lifting with improper form and posture and just overall jacked up knots everywhere) that i found out that no matter how much i focused on good posture, did yoga, went to PT, chiropractors, etc. my posture woudl always revert back to its ****ty position.

    I did tons of research and found out about trigger point and they have a theory of referral pain and satellite points. Where you start to build up smaller knots because of the original knots and your body's compensation for things. I always got massage and straightened out my back and my scapula because they were a big problem but i found out less than 8 months ago that my SOURCE were my traps. I went to a PT and he was like "holy crap" and pointed out how i have 2 balls (one inside each trap) the size of extra large AA eggs you find at the grocery store, hard as a ROCK. Needless to say, it took a **** ton of massage that is extremely painful at time to loosen those bad boys up and i still have a good amount left. Trigger point and deep massage really taxes your body. I'm still working to get these knots (they are scar tissue no doubt) broken up and dissolved and absorbed slowly for 1 hour sessions of deep trigger point every month or so. sometimes twice a month. Had i known i had to do that, i would've invested about 1g in straight up good massage every week and annihilated these a long time ago but instead i had to go to 6 different chiropractors, tried all sorts of massage therapists, PT, pilates, core workouts, personal training, not to mention all my personal research in biomechanics and anatomy.

    If i were you, id go to a massage place that offers trigger point and ask them if they remove knots. try a few of them out and see which ones work best for your knots and just invest some money and get that stuff done. Also some good stretches and not lifting for a while.

    Man, i can tell you the BIGGEST regret ever is not slowing things down and getting it fixed right once and for all. I was too busy lifting and gaining and just living life and brushed it off as something ill do later. I never ever wanted to give up lifting even after my PT said to stop heavy lifting. Guess i was addicted, and now i paid for it.

    if you continue to lift heavy (i did lots of cable shoulder lifts, militaries, dumbbell presses, rock climbing, etc) it will be real hard to reverse like me. I developed thoracic outlet syndrome which is just a scientific term for saying that your huge nerve coming from your CNS down under your clavicle through your first rib and your thoracic area, is literally compressing to death (and the arteries causing lightheadedness, etc) because of scar tissue and knots just jammin it up. I have neurological weakness in my fingers and my legs sometimes and just weird ****.

    hope this helps.
    You should try acupucture to get rid of your trap knots. Each session has the effect of 10-12 trigger point massages. Really helped me!
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