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  1. #1
    Registered User censored's Avatar
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    High Carb Cheat days

    Okay,

    so there seems to be a lot of miscomunication and uneducated comments being made on what, when and if you should, eat a cheat meal while on a KETO diet.

    So I was hoping someone here could do me a favor and settle the score once and for all. I am going to pop out a few questions and hopefully we can get some consensus here.

    1. Cheat Meal? or Cheat day?

    2. Before, or after a workout? Or on a recovery day?

    3. How many carbs do you want to ingest on a "carb up day/meal?" What is sufficent, and what is over kill?

    also hopefully we can clear up some comments.

    "If you eat carbs once a week on a Keto diet, than the carbs will push you out of the keto state and you'll have to start all over again." T or F

    "If you dont eat enough carbs throughout the day your body will go into starvation mode and instead of attacking glucose levels in fat, it will go after your muscles." T OR F


    hopefully someone can help me clear this up because Im getting the run around when I ask around, and all the research I have been doing is bringing up some contradictory things.

    Thanks guys
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  2. #2
    Registered User Jerbz's Avatar
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    My 2 cents.

    1. I would say a day. Not so much cheat, but a refeed of sorts. Obviously if kept 'clean' will ensure minimum fat storage. The term cheat refers to a break in diet, where one will consume his or hers own guilty pleasure, which by all means is not necessary, but does have its psychological benefits for those unable to stick to the diet. If one were to perform a cheat meal then it would most likely lead to a greater fat loss, but also voids the purpose of the refeed as sufficient carbs wont be taken in (unless you can eat that much in one meal...). This all depends on ones insulin sensitivity and metabolism, many people get away with long refeeds, others have to keep them short or they drag behind. I know you've probably seen this 10000000 times but really, you have to test it for yourself as everyone works different.

    2. Depending on the length of your refeed, but for a single day i believe should be done on your recovery day, its actually ill-advised to be training on your refeed day as you are depleting your glycogen stores as you refill them. If you are stretching it, and have a heavier training schedule then definately after your final/depletion workout and then stretch it over to your recovery day(s). For CKD style diets often fruit is consumed a couple hours prior to the depletion workout to refill liver glycogen and prime your body for the following carb up.

    3.Generally a sufficient goal would be to aim for ~10grams of carbs per lb of LBM.

    "If you eat carbs once a week on a Keto diet, than the carbs will push you out of the keto state and you'll have to start all over again." = F (depends on how many carbs you eat, and what you mean by start again. True in a sense that once you are out of keto you have to start again to get back into keto, but false as its not like you have to do the induction phases again, depending on the damage you do will determine how fast you can get back into keto. ie. eating 10L of icecream will keep you out longer than 2 slices of bread, you know what i mean).

    "If you dont eat enough carbs throughout the day your body will go into starvation mode and instead of attacking glucose levels in fat, it will go after your muscles." = F
    Last edited by Jerbz; 03-01-2010 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Correction from ballinfrogs
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  3. #3
    Registered User GrindedDown's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jerbz View Post

    "If you eat carbs once a week on a Keto diet, than the carbs will push you out of the keto state and you'll have to start all over again." = F

    F=Fail?

    Could you explain this one for me. I recently started keto and have been reading up on it quite a bit. I have yet to actually see that statement, but I have not seen the opposite statement really. Does a carb-up day really not take you out of ketosis? It kinds of seems logical that it would take you out.

    Update: I see you kind of ninja answered it for me
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  4. #4
    Registered User Jerbz's Avatar
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    Haha yeah sorry i added that in to clear it up, i wasnt happy with just an F there. And yeah, F = fail.
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  5. #5
    Registered User censored's Avatar
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    awesome thanks for the info - repped!

    Okay so I had a serriously wimpy carb day. Guess Ill stick with the diet till next week and than push the carbs back in lol.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by censored View Post
    1. Cheat Meal? or Cheat day?

    2. Before, or after a workout? Or on a recovery day?

    3. How many carbs do you want to ingest on a "carb up day/meal?" What is sufficent, and what is over kill?

    also hopefully we can clear up some comments.

    "If you eat carbs once a week on a Keto diet, than the carbs will push you out of the keto state and you'll have to start all over again." T or F

    "If you dont eat enough carbs throughout the day your body will go into starvation mode and instead of attacking glucose levels in fat, it will go after your muscles." T OR F

    Thanks guys
    1. Not a cheat. A refeed. If you have a lot of fat to lose, then one or two carb meals will do the job. I you are building muscle, then a full day.

    2. On your carb-up day. Typically that's every week, though it could be every 4-5 days if you are keto bulking, or every 10-14 days if you are working on fat loss or not lifting intensely.

    3. Keep your carb-up calories within reasonable sight of your real maintenance calories. For muscle gain, about 30% above maintenance should work. Reverse the macros, so you eat 30% protein, 5% fat and 65% clean carbs. No junk.

    Yes, on your carb-up, you go out of ketosis. That's the idea. insulin is very anabolic, so you'll build muscle faster when there is insulin flooding you. Don't worry, you'll get back to ketosis quickly enough,

    Lot of crap. Calories are what keeps your body out of starvation mode (which is hugely over-hyped anyway, you need to be actually starving to be in starvation mode, not just eatiing a 100 cals below maintenance), not carbs. I'd love to know why people who are wobbling around under 30% bodyfat are so convinced that dropping a few rice cakes from their diet will cause their bodies to start eating their muscles.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  7. #7
    Registered User ballinfrogs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jerbz View Post
    My 2 cents.

    1. I would say a day. Not so much cheat, but a refeed of sorts. Obviously if kept 'clean' will ensure minimum fat storage. The term cheat refers to a break in diet, where one will consume his or hers own guilty pleasure, which by all means is not necessary, but does have its psychological benefits for those unable to stick to the diet. If one were to perform a cheat meal then it would most likely lead to a greater fat loss, but also voids the purpose of the refeed as sufficient carbs wont be taken in (unless you can eat that much in one meal...). This all depends on ones insulin sensitivity and metabolism, many people get away with long refeeds, others have to keep them short or they drag behind. I know you've probably seen this 10000000 times but really, you have to test it for yourself as everyone works different.

    2. Depending on the length of your refeed, but for a single day i believe should be done on your recovery day, its actually ill-advised to be training on your refeed day as you are depleting your glycogen stores as you refill them. If you are stretching it, and have a heavier training schedule then definately after your final/depletion workout and then stretch it over to your recovery day(s).

    3.Generally a sufficient goal would be to aim for ~10grams of carbs per lb of LBM.

    "If you eat carbs once a week on a Keto diet, than the carbs will push you out of the keto state and you'll have to start all over again." = F (depends on how many carbs you eat, and what you mean by start again. True in a sense that once you are out of keto you have to start again to get back into keto, but false as its not like you have to do the induction phases again, depending on the damage you do will determine how fast you can get back into keto. ie. eating 10L of icecream will keep you out longer than 2 slices of bread, you know what i mean).

    "If you dont eat enough carbs throughout the day your body will go into starvation mode and instead of attacking glucose levels in fat, it will go after your muscles." = F
    agree with everything besides your #2

    carbs should be consumed slightly prior to and after your depletion workout, this will ensure thats carbs are being directed towards filling your muscle glycogen stores
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  8. #8
    Registered User Jerbz's Avatar
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    Actually yes, you're right, sorry i will edit that. I've forgotten about that one as i've been doing just single day carb ups for some time now. My mistake.
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