Getting Rid of Stubborn Bodyfat - Mcdonald's Stubborn Fat Protocol

[Atavis]

A little older material, but with all the what kind of cardio should we do talk around here, it seems like a good time to post it.

Getting Rid of Stubborn Bodyfat- by Lyle McDonald

Without going into the brutally long and complicated mental computations that led me to this (and I'm still working on the overall scheme), here's my current thoughts on how to approach it.

First and foremost, this is one of the places where morning/pre-breakfast cardio is probably crucially important.

An hour or two before cardio, take 200 mg caffeine with 1-3 grams of L-tyrosine (NO ephedrine).

There are two segments to the cardio:

- The first segment is for mobilization, to get those stubborn fatty acids out of the fat cell.
- The second segment is the oxidation part, to burn them off in the muscle.

For the first segment of the cardio, use a machine that you don't normally use. So if you normally do the treadmill, do the first segment on the stairmaster or bike or something. Just make it different.

First segment:
warmup: 3-5 minutes
go hard: 5-10 minutes. I mean hard, as hard as you can stand for the entire time. This will NOT be fun on lowered blood glucose. I've considered putting intervals here but haven't found the data I need to make up my mind. If you do intervals, go something like 5X1' all out with a 1' break (10' total intervals)

Rest 5', just sit on your butt, drink water, try not to puke.

Go to your normal cardio machine. Do at least 30 minutes at moderate/high moderate intensity (below lactate threshold but decent intensity). I'd say 45' maximum here but I'm still making up my mind and looking at data.

Go home, and wait and hour before having a small protein meal (25-50 grams or so). No dietary fat. 2-3 hours later, go back to normal diet eating. Your daily calories shouldn't be any different than they were already, they are just distributed differently, you only have 100-200 immediately after cardio, and then the rest afterwards.

I'd do that maybe 3 days per week to start, and see what happens.

Why this works

To get stubborn fat mobilized, you have to overcome a fairly severe resistance in terms of both blood flow and lipolysis, this requires very high concentrations of catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline). Sadly, jacking up levels of catecholamines (necessary for mobilization) limits burning in the muscle which is why you follow the high intensity with low intensity.

Basically, you jack up levels to get the fat mobilized, and then let them fall so that the fatty acid can be burned in the muscle.

I have a study showing that Ephedrine before intense activity lowers the catecholamine response, that's the reason for avoiding it. Studies also show a lower than normal catecholamine response as people adapt to a given type of cardio; doing a different machine will result in a higher catecholamine response than you'd other wise get.


The bigger problem with stubborn fat has to do with:

- Blood flow to the fat cells: which is typically very low, odds are your butt is cold to the touch compared to other areas of your body
- It's harder to mobilize: both because of impaired blood flow, and because of adrenoceptor issues.

Oral yohimbe (0.2 mg/kg) can be effective when used over the long term. Don't take it within 3-4 hours of taking ephedrine, and start with a half-dose to assess tolerance (some people get really freaky responses from it). IF you can find pharmaceutical yohimbine, it's far far better than the herbal version (and most of the herbal versions are crap, the only one I trust is Twinlab Yohimbe Fuel).

Taking the yohimbe with caffeine prior to morning cardio does seem to help with very stubborn fat.

[rcb0424]

A little older material, but with all the what kind of cardio should we do talk around here, it seems like a good time to post it.

thanks a bunch for this. I just started about a month ago. I have read tons and tons on it. When I do a diet I get almost ocd with information.

anyway, you and the other keto experts are a huge help to guys like me just starting. i saved this workout in a word file and will use it once i get down to those last few pounds and problem spots.

[vandalgirl59]

Interesting. Thanks for posting

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

PHARMACEUTICAL YOHIMBE ? yohimbine hcl close enuff ?

[Atavis]

PHARMACEUTICAL YOHIMBE ? yohimbine hcl close enuff ?

Yeah. That's what you want to look for instead of the herbal versions.

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

Assumed so only because the book is older and HCL is somewhat newer in regards to age of the book .

thanks atavis

[ViktorM]

Isnt it all just calories in vs calories out or does that only get you so far?

[ProTec]

Isnt it all just calories in vs calories out or does that only get you so far?

Weight gain vs weight loss is ALL about calories in/out. But usually you don't want weight loss, but fat loss.

[gecko2424]

Weight gain vs weight loss is ALL about calories in/out. But usually you don't want weight loss, but fat loss.

Well, almost. Depending on your genetic makeup a lower or higher percentage of fat can make significant difference in weight and fat loss. The wall st journal on March 4 did a writeup on a recent study comparing various diets to the DNA of participants. A 500 calorie deficit does not mean you will lose weight if the foods you eat slow your metabolism and kill fat catabolization.

There is also a huge effect from what those calories are in general. 2000 calories of pretzels affects metabolism much differently than 2000 calories of salmon.

People have parroted the calories in/out statement for a long time. In essence it is true, but a poor guide for fat loss or muscle gain. You sir are a parrot.

Keto has worked very well for me, while my wife does much better with about 45% carbs.

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

gecko said genetic makeup lmfao . no pun intended though huh gecko u made that up didnt ya ? awwlll here lizard lizard .. STOMPS LIZARDS HEAD IN

u work at bb.com dont ya ? Thats why the new board protocol has kicked in huh

[ANIMALISTIKZ]

gecko said genetic makeup lmfao . no pun intended though huh gecko u made that up didnt ya ? awwlll here lizard lizard .. STOMPS LIZARDS HEAD IN

u work at bb.com dont ya ? Thats why the new board protocol has kicked in huh

who let you out of the basement?

[Teflon_Don]

A little older material, but with all the what kind of cardio should we do talk around here, it seems like a good time to post it.

Remember that the context of the SFP is men who are 10-12% bf and women who are 15% bf. Otherwise its not necessary and kind of overkill.

[On Fire]

who let you out of the basement?

Who uses a pic of their mother's leg as an avatar?

[northwestmuscle]

Remember that the context of the SFP is men who are 10-12% bf and women who are 15% bf. Otherwise its not necessary and kind of overkill.

Has anyone here (who has a bf% higher than the % the SPS is designed for) tried Lyle's strategy? How did it turn out?

[AnyaBailey]

Is this okay while on ckd? Ive read everywhere people against HIIT as well as general high intensity cardio for the sake of muscle preservation?

honestly Low intes does nothing for me, mentally or physically, but I dont want to lose any muscle is possible.

[AnyaBailey]

Has anyone here (who has a bf% higher than the % the SPS is designed for) tried Lyle's strategy? How did it turn out?

why would you want to? if your bf is that high chances are you should be able to drop fat a lot easier with less strenuous methods of training.


not to mention when your bf starts to get low what are you gonna do to get it lower after youve stalled? 3 hrs of cardio? better to save the intense stuff for when you need it.

[northwestmuscle]

The reason why I ask is because of my personal situation. Even though I'm a guy, I have a disproportionate amount of fat in my buttocks (and love handles to a lesser degree). I've always found it really difficult to reduce any fat there; it's more stubborn than in other parts of my body. I'm able to reduce the fat all over the rest of my body through diet, cardio, weights but the fat on my butt simply stays there. I'm guessing it's because of genetics. His theories about stubborn fat in the buttocks region intrigue me.

His book is designed for already-lean athletes who want to get even leaner. I'm not sure if I really want to get my body fat down to 10%. I'm 22% but I'd probably be happy at 15%. This book might be the secret tool I need to successfully conquer my butt battle once and for all.

Any thoughts?

[AnyaBailey]

your bf% is still pretty high. Everyone has stubborn fat where its the last place to remove, its genetics.

You just need to get at a lower bf%, theres no magic about it.

[queloque]

Do you have a good squat workout?

Do some, Barbell or dumbell lunges
Stiff leg dead lifts
and Barbell squats.

Do full heavy lifts (4 to 6 reps) and do them once a week.

[AnyaBailey]

Do you have a good squat workout?

Do some, Barbell or dumbell lunges
Stiff leg dead lifts
and Barbell squats.

Do full heavy lifts (4 to 6 reps) and do them once a week.

Still not going to get rid of the fat he's carrying there. Its genetics, its probably going to be one of the VERY last things to go down.

You cannot spot reduce. overall bf% needs to be reduced.

The heavy lifting will only work the muscles UNDER the fat. Still will have the fat.

he just needs to keep dieting and cardio and lifting and lower the bf.

[ss4vegeta1]

Thanks gave me an idea. Only my heart can't take stimulants any more.

[queloque]

Still not going to get rid of the fat he's carrying there. Its genetics, its probably going to be one of the VERY last things to go down.

You cannot spot reduce. overall bf% needs to be reduced.

The heavy lifting will only work the muscles UNDER the fat. Still will have the fat.

he just needs to keep dieting and cardio and lifting and lower the bf.

I disagree, but thats just me. More muscles require more energy to maintain along with a caloric deficit and cardio.

[zpapa21]

I seem to be in experimentation mode so I may give this a run starting later this week.

The one question, am I lean enough to undergo this experiment?

http://ifexperiment.blogspot.com/201...ed-weekly.html

I will do my best to take weekly pictures and document my progress as detailed as possible. I already keep a pretty damn detailed blog as you can see so I suppose it won't be much different than the usual stuff I write about.

I have been wanting to get a good mix of HIIT/SS cardio going for awhile now and with Lyle being such a knowledgeable guy I can't see how this won't help those looking to go from lean to shredded (not that i am, haha).

Just to note fat loss has been good lately so obviously progress would be made anyways but it should still be worth doing.

[AnyaBailey]

I disagree, but thats just me. More muscles require more energy to maintain along with a caloric deficit and cardio.

which again would equate to OVERALL lowered bf% and possibly higher increase in lower body muscles.

He was specifically talking about his buttocks region.

Again, you cannot spot reduce. that's like some 300 lb dude doing bicep curls until the cows come home, does that mean he's going to have veins popping out of his arm and a peak like mount everest until his OVERALL bf% composition is lowered down? no, however will lifting weights help with metabolism and overall calorie deficit, well duh? Hence why I said this:
"he just needs to keep dieting and cardio and lifting and lower the bf."

Doing squats and lunges isn't going to just magically take all the fat away from his love handles and buttocks region.

Hey to each his own

[northwestmuscle]

Do you have a good squat workout?

Do some, Barbell or dumbell lunges
Stiff leg dead lifts
and Barbell squats.

Do full heavy lifts (4 to 6 reps) and do them once a week.

Hi thanks the responses.

I unfortunately haven't been doing any lunges or squats (with a barbell). I've been doing 2 sets (10 reps) on the horizontal squat machine (leg press) as part of my circuit training routine. For some reason I find I get a more burning sensation in my quads and glutes when I do the machine squat versus the barbell squat. I'm also a bit worried that my knees will go past my toes when doing to the barbell squat and that I'll bust my kneecaps. I've read great things about the barbel squat (with it being a compound exercise).

[queloque]

which again would equate to OVERALL lowered bf% and possibly higher increase in lower body muscles.

He was specifically talking about his buttocks region.

Again, you cannot spot reduce. that's like some 300 lb dude doing bicep curls until the cows come home, does that mean he's going to have veins popping out of his arm and a peak like mount everest until his OVERALL bf% composition is lowered down? no, however will lifting weights help with metabolism and overall calorie deficit, well duh? Hence why I said this:
"he just needs to keep dieting and cardio and lifting and lower the bf."

Doing squats and lunges isn't going to just magically take all the fat away from his love handles and buttocks region.

Hey to each his own

dude I said nothing about spot reduce. So your comparison in an attempt to make me understand is pointless. My point was that the muscles below the waist are your largest muscles and where you you can get greater muscle gains than any part of your body and as a result increase muscle size which means increased energy utilization that would impact your whole body in burning fat.

[BritishFighter]

Hi thanks the responses.

I unfortunately haven't been doing any lunges or squats (with a barbell). I've been doing 2 sets (10 reps) on the horizontal squat machine (leg press) as part of my circuit training routine. For some reason I find I get a more burning sensation in my quads and glutes when I do the machine squat versus the barbell squat. I'm also a bit worried that my knees will go past my toes when doing to the barbell squat and that I'll bust my kneecaps. I've read great things about the barbel squat (with it being a compound exercise).

The "don't let your knees go past your toes" thing, is old-school BS. A recent study showed that preventing your knees from going past your toes actually produced more stress on the vertebrae in your lower-back. So between stressing your knees and your back, you're better off stressing your knees. Unless you think Back Surgery would be more fun than knee surgery. :-)

Proper Squats are one of the Big-Three exercises. Squats utilize several major muscle groups in your body, along with tons of little stabilizer muscles, that you won't hit by simply using a leg-press machine. Don't be temped to do them using a Smith-machine either, because that makes them to easy, and encourages poor form.

Do Squats regularly, and I guarantee your Legs will gain size and strength quickly.

[queloque]

The "don't let your knees go past your toes" thing, is old-school BS. A recent study showed that preventing your knees from going past your toes actually produced more stress on the vertebrae in your lower-back. So between stressing your knees and your back, you're better off stressing your knees. Unless you think Back Surgery would be more fun than knee surgery. :-)

Proper Squats are one of the Big-Three exercises. Squats utilize several major muscle groups in your body, along with tons of little stabilizer muscles, that you won't hit by simply using a leg-press machine. Don't be temped to do them using a Smith-machine either, because that makes them to easy, and encourages poor form.

Do Squats regularly, and I guarantee your Legs will gain size and strength quickly.

...and your body will utilize more energy. Good post.

[AnyaBailey]

dude I said nothing about spot reduce. So your comparison in an attempt to make me understand is pointless. My point was that the muscles below the waist are your largest muscles and where you you can get greater muscle gains than any part of your body and as a result increase muscle size which means increased energy utilization that would impact your whole body in burning fat.

Then why argue with me when my point was intended for the OP looking to try to spot reduce, "dude".

One more time here since you have a hard time reading:

his post was intended on stubborn fat areas in his buttocks ie trying to spot reduce, who happens to have a higher bf%. I said to lower overall bf% which will eventually lower the fat in buttocks.

You just said to do squats etc, now one can INFER that since you were saying do squats in reply to HIS post about getting rid of stubborn body fat in his lower body (without even an explanation or mentioning how it would lower overall bf%, you were speaking about spot reducing:

your post:

"Do you have a good squat workout?

Do some, Barbell or dumbell lunges
Stiff leg dead lifts
and Barbell squats.

Do full heavy lifts (4 to 6 reps) and do them once a week."


He never mentioned about overall bodyfat. I was the one that actually mentioned he would have to lower OVERALL fat to eventually get rid of the fat on his hip area. by doing weight training etc. (so uhm in essence I agree with the whole doing weight training = greater calorie deficient)

I think we all know lifting weights and doing ANY form of exercise will cause a greater calorie deficient if proper diet is consumed, especially with larger muscle groups involved. Back to my 'duh'.

in laymans terms summary:

him: I have fat on my ass and cant get rid of it.

you: do squats and lunges

me: infer you were trying to talk about spot reducing

anyways I'm done arguing with people who have problems comprehending and communicating things properly and clearly

[queloque]

Then why argue with me when my point was intended for the OP looking to try to spot reduce, "dude".

One more time here since you have a hard time reading:

his post was intended on stubborn fat areas in his buttocks ie trying to spot reduce, who happens to have a higher bf%. I said to lower overall bf% which will eventually lower the fat in buttocks.

You just said to do squats etc, now one can INFER that since you were saying do squats in reply to HIS post about getting rid of stubborn body fat in his lower body (without even an explanation or mentioning how it would lower overall bf%, you were speaking about spot reducing:

your post:

"Do you have a good squat workout?

Do some, Barbell or dumbell lunges
Stiff leg dead lifts
and Barbell squats.

Do full heavy lifts (4 to 6 reps) and do them once a week."


He never mentioned about overall bodyfat. I was the one that actually mentioned he would have to lower OVERALL fat to eventually get rid of the fat on his hip area. by doing weight training etc. (so uhm in essence I agree with the whole doing weight training = greater calorie deficient)

I think we all know lifting weights and doing ANY form of exercise will cause a greater calorie deficient if proper diet is consumed, especially with larger muscle groups involved. Back to my 'duh'.


anyways I'm done arguing with people who have problems comprehending and understanding things properly and clearly

I'm not arguing with you. You are just misinterpreting what I'm trying to say, thats all. I tried to explain but you ignored my explanation.

I wasn't speaking about spot reducing. That's how you interpreted and i'm telling you that is not what I meant. Can you at least accept my explanation of that is what I didn't mean?

What I meant, and let me spell it out once again, was to incorporate a more intense leg routine and it doesn't take a lot of leg exercises to do it, just more intense. And this would increase more energy utilization. I did not think I had to explain myself of what I meant, but clearly I had to.

It is not like we are face to face talking to each other so that there is immediate explanation of our meaning hence you were quick to interpret incorrectly. A simple response like other people do here is, "could you explain". Not reach to judgment of what i was trying to say.

the problem was you could not comprehend, hence your misinterpretation. I fully understood.