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  1. #1
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    The 80/20 Rule for Lifting

    Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

    When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

    But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

    The 80/20 Rule

    Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

    The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:
    • Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
    • Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
    • Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
    • Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
    • Getting adequate recovery.
    • Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.
    Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

    Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

    That way lies madness, my friends.


    Objective Evidence

    So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

    But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

    As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


    Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

    So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


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  2. #2
    Registered User djansen's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    you are officially the sticky maker.

    Great points, ill admit im guilty of over analyzing things.
    great post
    If God did not want us to eat animals, he would not have made them out of meat.

    Answer to whole egg questions
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=178259761#post178259761

    Im not your friend buddy!
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  3. #3
    Registered User SethMFJ's Avatar
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    Great post and those are some good points.
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  4. #4
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Excellent post, Vox!
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  5. #5
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    Thumbs up

    "Sticky Maker" that's a good name for you!
    David


    I'm not a bodybuilder but I play one on the internet.
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  6. #6
    Registered User sportyaccordy's Avatar
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    I've found that good form, volume, nutrition and adequate rest are the keys to fast gains

    Everything else is pretty trivial
    Intensity, Recovery, Nutrition, Sleep- the only things that matter.
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  7. #7
    Registered User ggecko22's Avatar
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    Idk. I definitely hear where you're coming from..."If you do this, this, and this (the 20%) you wil get these results (the 80%)." Ok, fair enough. But why not try to be as effective and efficient as possible? Ya, by looking into all the "minutia" you are only improving 20% of you're results, but is that to say that it's not worth it? With as much dedication, hard work, and discipline that getting results requires, why not strive for that extra 20%? Is it really not worth it, to try to find the best, most effective angle to do incline bench. I'm not saying spend all of your time researching such a thing, but I want my exercises to be as effective as possible. If the timing of a post workout meal is at all important, why not eat it as soon as possible? You certainly wouldn't wait 1 and 1/2 hours would you? So if the timing matters at all, why not make sure you are optimizing this meal? Right, the person who uses whichever is more effective between barbell and ez bar curls isn't going to have arms 2 inches bigger than the person who uses the bar that's less effective (from this variation alone atleast). But over the course of two, three years, maybe the results would be slightly better. For me, that slight advantage is worth looking into.
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  8. #8
    Encyclochuzzle chazzy1864's Avatar
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    Haven't read it yet, about to head towards teh gym, so here is my obligatory statements I'm sure I'll post anyways:

    Great post Vox. Definitely could be stickied.

    -heh, too bad newbies won't see it.
    -Pffft, this will go to waste, only the veterans who know it will read it.
    -In before a new post on "I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?"
    -
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    [b][size=3]
    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

    Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development.

    .
    Yeah, I think a lot of this confusion stuff was created by marketing to make it confusing so ppl get scared & just pay the extra money for a tub of the latest super powder which has an expert guide in it which contains cutting edge routines .


    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    Ya, by looking into all the "minutia" you are only improving 20% of you're results, but is that to say that it's not worth it? With as much dedication, hard work, and discipline that getting results requires, why not strive for that extra 20%?
    Your over thinking it. The 80/20 rule in a generalization, it was first coined by an economist. Dont take it literally, I think in reality its more like 0.2% for the list he included for the first few years in a trainee's experience. If you are truly putting in effort it wont matter all that much if you do 8 reps or 12. Only after yrs of experience you may come to the conclusion that one is definitely better for you than the other (due to differences between people), but prior to this its a moot point.
    .

    "thats right, its just business. pure & simple.
    not nose biting, alien hiding, secret parking-lot meeting conspiracies.
    just pure business, ally-favoring, charade playing business.
    & they always pull the conspiracy card out to make anyone who questions it sound like some paranoid freak."


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  10. #10
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    Idk. I definitely hear where you're coming from..."If you do this, this, and this (the 20%) you wil get these results (the 80%)." Ok, fair enough. But why not try to be as effective and efficient as possible? Ya, by looking into all the "minutia" you are only improving 20% of you're results, but is that to say that it's not worth it? With as much dedication, hard work, and discipline that getting results requires, why not strive for that extra 20%? Is it really not worth it, to try to find the best, most effective angle to do incline bench. I'm not saying spend all of your time researching such a thing, but I want my exercises to be as effective as possible. If the timing of a post workout meal is at all important, why not eat it as soon as possible? You certainly wouldn't wait 1 and 1/2 hours would you? So if the timing matters at all, why not make sure you are optimizing this meal? Right, the person who uses whichever is more effective between barbell and ez bar curls isn't going to have arms 2 inches bigger than the person who uses the bar that's less effective (from this variation alone atleast). But over the course of two, three years, maybe the results would be slightly better. For me, that slight advantage is worth looking into.

    Many people think this way, but the problem is that it's not nearly that easy to determine what's right and what's wrong within that 80%. If "guy A" says to do this, and "guy B" says to do that, then which is correct? There are 5 options:

    1. Guy A is correct, Guy B is wrong
    2. Guy B is correct, Guy A is wrong
    3. They are both wrong
    4. They are both right
    5. It doesn't matter at all.

    How long is it going to take you to sort through all that? Are you going to personally try out both options in a controlled double-blind test? Flip a coin? Listen to the guy with the most rep points?

    Another way to think about it is this: let's say there are 100 bodybuilding details that make any difference at all. That's also not to say that there aren't 1,000 more details that make no difference (they're just smoke and mirrors). Then the details break down like this:

    20 Most Important Details = 80% of results
    80 Least Important Details = 20% of results
    1,000 completely Unimportant Details = 0% of results

    The 20 are relatively clear, since most everyone agrees on them, numerous scientific studies back them up, and real world results of countless people prove them.

    The 80 are difficult, at times, to separate from the 1,000. So, you're looking for a needle in a haystack. Especially since of the 80 that do make some difference, it may be that 10 of those add up to 19% of the remaining 20%. (for example)

    This doesn't even factor in the "fog of war" that comes in with that search. If you get so caught up in that fog, you may lose your way with the 20% that matters. And worse, maybe you latch on to some crackpot idea that is actually counter-productive.

    Your point is good, however, that if you believe something to be directionally correct, but maybe not a huge deal in the great scheme of things, then go with it. Just don't obsess over it or spend too much time worrying about it.
    Last edited by VoxExMachina; 02-19-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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  11. #11
    Registered User ggecko22's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by morderstwo View Post
    Yeah, I think a lot of this confusion stuff was created by marketing to make it confusing so ppl get scared & just pay the extra money for a tub of the latest super powder which has an expert guide in it which contains cutting edge routines .




    Your over thinking it. The 80/20 rule in a generalization, it was first coined by an economist. Dont take it literally, I think in reality its more like 0.2% for the list he included for the first few years in a trainee's experience. If you are truly putting in effort it wont matter all that much if you do 8 reps or 12. Only after yrs of experience you may come to the conclusion that one is definitely better for you than the other (due to differences between people), but prior to this its a moot point.

    No, i actually think you're underthinking it. I know that the 80/20 was of course not meant literally, but for the purposes of this thread, that was the ratio I referenced. Again, why wouldn't you at least attempt to maximize the efficiency of every exercise that you use? Why wouldn't you eat as efficiently as possible (yes, trying to get it to an exact amount of carbs, fats, and proteins, for all the different meals)? You wouldn't bulk on 50g of protein a day would you? And I'm pretty certain you wouldn't consume 500g of protein on a daily basis either. That said, there is a number that you are aiming for. If that's the case, why be general about it? Why not try to eat the amount of protein that's going to be most efficient. Same goes for carbs, and fats. Nevermind eating certain types of carbs and proteins that are going to be most advantageous at certain times in the day. Couple those things with maximizing the effectiveness of every single set of every single exercise, and I actually think that, collectively, those things are responsible for more than 20% of your results (again, referencing the ratio provided in the op). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if your post wo meal is perfect, but you get 2 hours of sleep every night, you will still see results. I agree that there are certain croe principles that are responsible for the majority of one's results. However, I don't think you can be too scrupulous in trying to maximize the efficiency of all of the factors that come into play, even if it is only responsible for 20% of your results. Hell, that's the difference between 15% and 12% bodyfat.
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  12. #12
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    Never thought of it that way.

    Red member approved!
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    No, i actually think you're underthinking it. I know that the 80/20 was of course not meant literally, but for the purposes of this thread, that was the ratio I referenced. Again, why wouldn't you at least attempt to maximize the efficiency of every exercise that you use? Why wouldn't you eat as efficiently as possible (yes, trying to get it to an exact amount of carbs, fats, and proteins, for all the different meals)? You wouldn't bulk on 50g of protein a day would you? And I'm pretty certain you wouldn't consume 500g of protein on a daily basis either. That said, there is a number that you are aiming for. If that's the case, why be general about it? Why not try to eat the amount of protein that's going to be most efficient. Same goes for carbs, and fats. Nevermind eating certain types of carbs and proteins that are going to be most advantageous at certain times in the day. Couple those things with maximizing the effectiveness of every single set of every single exercise, and I actually think that, collectively, those things are responsible for more than 20% of your results (again, referencing the ratio provided in the op). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if your post wo meal is perfect, but you get 2 hours of sleep every night, you will still see results. I agree that there are certain croe principles that are responsible for the majority of one's results. However, I don't think you can be too scrupulous in trying to maximize the efficiency of all of the factors that come into play, even if it is only responsible for 20% of your results. Hell, that's the difference between 15% and 12% bodyfat.
    I think when vox wrote this he figured people would read, understand, and use a little COMMON SENSE. Of course you wouldn't f'in bulk and only take in 50g of protein unless you're a fat house cat. Part of the 80/20 is common sense, he's just saying not to stress over things like getting exactly 1 g or 1.5 g per pound of lean body weight.

    It's good that you want to be precise as possible, all vox is getting at is don't let little sh!t get in the way of adding weight to the bar as often as possible. I'll take adding weight to the bar on a regular basis over ma' havin' my protein shake ready exactly 30 min after my workout or whatever.

    You're doing to much 80 with this thread and not enough 20.

    Solid thread btw.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    No, i actually think you're underthinking it. Hell, that's the difference between 15% and 12% bodyfat.
    ^ fixed + that's not really a big difference...

    i think the OP had a good point which you're either completely missing or just can't find anything better to do with your time than to argue about...
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  15. #15
    Encyclochuzzle chazzy1864's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    No, i actually think you're underthinking it. I know that the 80/20 was of course not meant literally, but for the purposes of this thread, that was the ratio I referenced. Again, why wouldn't you at least attempt to maximize the efficiency of every exercise that you use? Why wouldn't you eat as efficiently as possible (yes, trying to get it to an exact amount of carbs, fats, and proteins, for all the different meals)? You wouldn't bulk on 50g of protein a day would you? And I'm pretty certain you wouldn't consume 500g of protein on a daily basis either. That said, there is a number that you are aiming for. If that's the case, why be general about it? Why not try to eat the amount of protein that's going to be most efficient. Same goes for carbs, and fats. Nevermind eating certain types of carbs and proteins that are going to be most advantageous at certain times in the day. Couple those things with maximizing the effectiveness of every single set of every single exercise, and I actually think that, collectively, those things are responsible for more than 20% of your results (again, referencing the ratio provided in the op). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if your post wo meal is perfect, but you get 2 hours of sleep every night, you will still see results. I agree that there are certain croe principles that are responsible for the majority of one's results. However, I don't think you can be too scrupulous in trying to maximize the efficiency of all of the factors that come into play, even if it is only responsible for 20% of your results. Hell, that's the difference between 15% and 12% bodyfat.
    I'm going to side with Vox. I think you get to wrapped up around little things that don't matter.

    I used to be the same way. Try to plan everything out, had a schedule for my food, my snacks, my lunches while at work. I time my vitamins, supplements, etc. I was making my own excel spreadsheets, with common recipes I'd cook for myself. Breaking stuff down, running the ratios for the vinagarette I made myself. I counted how much olive oil i used, how much vinegar, then factored it down to know how many calories, fats, etc I was getting per 2 tbsp I dumped on my salad.

    it was all too much. No reason.

    Now, I pretty much wing it. Ever since then, I've seen great results. I'm more non chalant about it, and I bulk very lean, and recomp regularly. my strength escalates, and my muscles hypertrophy. I don't care as much about trivial sh*t, and overall I'm happier.
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  16. #16
    back with half the reps SDFlip's Avatar
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    CLIFFS:

    -don't listen to anything you read on bb.com
    -eat, lift, rest, repeat
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    Aye, infractions and I may behave. Ban, and I won't post... at least a while. And dying in my bed, many years from now, would I be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell the mods that they may take my reps, but they'll never take... OUR RANT!
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  17. #17
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    so true..people really overthink this world... who cares if you are doing 5x5 or MAX-OT or blahblah...just dont be a complete idiot and train hard and eat smart...

    nothing more annoying than a keyboard jockey reading t-nation articles and preaching it like the bible

    ppl gotta learn to form an opinion...
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by chazzy1864 View Post
    overall I'm happier.
    dam straight

    like him, i used to break every little thing down to an spreadsheet. my life was boring and monotonous and sucky



    we all have lives outside of BBing. (at least i hope we all do..)

    r u guys gonna tell me that if you and ur friends or wife or girlfriend r going out to vday dinner, that you are gonna ask the dam waitress for the macro breakdown of your ****in salad?


    living ur life and making minor adjustments in accordance with ur goals (while being happy) is the most important thing..
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  19. #19
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    I want to be clear and note that I'm not saying people shouldn't be detail oriented. If it helps you keep your "head in the game" and motivates you to track your nutrition closely, then go for it. Nutrition is part of that 20%.

    I'm also not saying that anyone should use the 80/20 rule as an excuse for being lazy with the details, only give 20% effort, or pick 20 out of 100 things to do and forget about the rest.

    What I am saying is that if you stick with the basics, use some common sense, train hard, eat right, progress your weights, and monitor and adjust your plan based on your results, then you don't need to be worrying about the fact that the incline bench in your gym only adjusts in 30 degree increments so you can't set it at exactly 27.5 degrees which someone told you is best.

    You don't have to worry that you're doing Starting Strength and your buddy is doing Bill Pearl's beginner program and you may not get the same gainz.

    You don't have to worry that you missed your Tuesday workout and had to do it on Wednesday instead.

    You don't have to worry that you're doing biceps on back day instead of on chest day.

    You don't have to worry that your bench press max has plateaued for the last two hours.

    You don't have to worry that you heard that Xtreme H^rDcoRe Pig Feet Oil Capsules might give you "50% more growth hormone production".

    You don't have to worry about whether you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 12 reps or 9 sets of pyramids, etc. etc. etc.


    I see posts on here day in and day out asking "is this better than that" or "how many sets of XX should I do" when the answer to most is: "It Just Doesn't Matter".
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  20. #20
    K. I. S. S. jdmalm123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?
    All the experienced lifters/posters should agree to link to this thread EVERY TIME one of these questions is asked. If every unnecessary question got 15 posts pointing them back to the basics, maybe we can save at least one newb.

    Great post, as usual, Vox!
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  21. #21
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    Repped. Great post.
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  22. #22
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    Very informational post!

    Do you think that as a bodybuilder because advanced(not asking with respect to myself, I'm nowhere near advanced) the rule slowly changes percentage wise?
    My Training Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120696121
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if your post wo meal is perfect, but you get 2 hours of sleep every night, you will still see results.
    ^^^^I actually agree with OP's main point; there are certain core principles that are responsible for the majority of one's results and getting completely consumed by the RELATIVELY unimportant principles is a waste of time, especially if the former group of principles is being implemented wrongly. That said, I think once an individual has a solid foundation in place, it doesn't hurt to look into the more particular aspects of bodybuilding (excel spreadsheets and hours on top of hours of research into the difference between the narrow clos grip handle and the wide close grip handle obviously going too far).
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  24. #24
    Grey Knight Dergo's Avatar
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    This thread and John Gargani's one about training can give great motivation and some "outside the box" guidancefor bodybuilding beginners (me included).

    Inspiring.
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  25. #25
    65 tons of American Pride BluntD's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    That said, I think once an individual has a solid foundation in place, it doesn't hurt to look into the more particular aspects of bodybuilding
    Yes.

    As you get more advanced and get closer to your genetic ceiling, the gains become that much slower and that much harder to obtain, where any extra detail can help push through that final stage.

    Vox's message speaks mainly to those still in the beginning stages of their lifting "career", those that should still be concerned with building that solid foundation you mentioned instead of wasting time and energy stressing about the small stuff. You ever notice but a majority of those threads he listed in the 80% trivial part are usually started by younger guys who really have no need to be sweating over those details. Just get in there and concentrate on having a solid progression plan instead of worrying about what angle you should be doing lateral raises, etc.
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by Slow-N-Steady View Post
    Very informational post!

    Do you think that as a bodybuilder because advanced(not asking with respect to myself, I'm nowhere near advanced) the rule slowly changes percentage wise?
    The rule doesn't change, even for the pro's 80% of their results will come from 20% of what they do. But at that advanced level, figuring out and getting the minor 80% right is what makes a champion.


    Originally Posted by BluntD View Post
    Yes.

    As you get more advanced and get closer to your genetic ceiling, the gains become that much slower and that much harder to obtain, where any extra detail can help push through that final stage.

    Vox's message speaks mainly to those still in the beginning stages of their lifting "career", those that should still be concerned with building that solid foundation you mentioned instead of wasting time and energy stressing about the small stuff. You ever notice but a majority of those threads he listed in the 80% trivial part are usually started by younger guys who really have no need to be sweating over those details. Just get in there and concentrate on having a solid progression plan instead of worrying about what angle you should be doing lateral raises, etc.
    ^ This. Once you get to the point where you may need to worry about those minor details, you won't have to ask an internet forum about them.
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by ggecko22 View Post
    No, i actually think you're underthinking it. I know that the 80/20 was of course not meant literally, but for the purposes of this thread, that was the ratio I referenced. Again, why wouldn't you at least attempt to maximize the efficiency of every exercise that you use? Why wouldn't you eat as efficiently as possible (yes, trying to get it to an exact amount of carbs, fats, and proteins, for all the different meals)? You wouldn't bulk on 50g of protein a day would you? And I'm pretty certain you wouldn't consume 500g of protein on a daily basis either. That said, there is a number that you are aiming for. If that's the case, why be general about it? Why not try to eat the amount of protein that's going to be most efficient. Same goes for carbs, and fats. Nevermind eating certain types of carbs and proteins that are going to be most advantageous at certain times in the day. Couple those things with maximizing the effectiveness of every single set of every single exercise, and I actually think that, collectively, those things are responsible for more than 20% of your results (again, referencing the ratio provided in the op). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if your post wo meal is perfect, but you get 2 hours of sleep every night, you will still see results. I agree that there are certain croe principles that are responsible for the majority of one's results. However, I don't think you can be too scrupulous in trying to maximize the efficiency of all of the factors that come into play, even if it is only responsible for 20% of your results. Hell, that's the difference between 15% and 12% bodyfat.
    I get what ur saying

    But ur forgetting one major factor... the individual

    What works 100% for me might work 65% for you... you just have to kind of figure things out

    Plus I would say 90% of the time when someone isn't making the gains they want it's not some minute detail... it comes back to:

    - good form
    - proper workout volume
    - quality and adequate nutrition
    - adequate rest

    Once you develop a work out that has good compound lifts and covers all your body parts, you work out enough, you eat and you sleep right you will make gains. I really think it's that simple.
    Intensity, Recovery, Nutrition, Sleep- the only things that matter.
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by SDFlip View Post
    CLIFFS:

    -don't listen to anything you read on bb.com
    -eat, lift, rest, repeat
    -????
    -profit
    What's the purpose of bb.com then?






















    Now I remember!






























    80 % supps sales and 20 % Lulz...

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  29. #29
    back with half the reps SDFlip's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sportyaccordy View Post
    I get what ur saying

    But ur forgetting one major factor... the individual

    What works 100% for me might work 65% for you... you just have to kind of figure things out

    Plus I would say 90% of the time when someone isn't making the gains they want it's not some minute detail... it comes back to:

    - good form
    - proper workout volume
    - quality and adequate nutrition
    - adequate rest

    Once you develop a work out that has good compound lifts and covers all your body parts, you work out enough, you eat and you sleep right you will make gains. I really think it's that simple.
    60% of the time, it works every time.
    Aye, infractions and I may behave. Ban, and I won't post... at least a while. And dying in my bed, many years from now, would I be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell the mods that they may take my reps, but they'll never take... OUR RANT!
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?
    It's no coincedence that the majority of threads started by nooblets in this section pertain to those types of questions. Ironically, it will be those threads that will soon push this one to the second page.
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