Pain?

[Triistan]

I was looking at this topic http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120076581 and I've got a question now..

My program consists of 3 series ( 2 series 3-5 reps and last serie as much reps as I can ) and when I'm doing the last serie and try to do as much reps as possible it hurts, I feel pain in my muscles but I keep on going and I thought that was the way to train?

Arnold stated 'the last three or four reps is what makes the muscle grow, this area of pain divides the champion from someone else who is not a champion. That's what most people lack, having the guts to go on and just say they'll go trough the pain! No matter what happens'

So I don't know, I thought u had to shock ur muscles ( keep on going even if it burns/hurts ) to make fast/good gains.. Now I'm all confused, what did I get wrong?

[Triistan]

bump

[HALON]

I was looking at this topic http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120076581 and I've got a question now..

My program consists of 3 series ( 2 series 3-5 reps and last serie as much reps as I can ) and when I'm doing the last serie and try to do as much reps as possible it hurts, I feel pain in my muscles but I keep on going and I thought that was the way to train?

Arnold stated 'the last three or four reps is what makes the muscle grow, this area of pain divides the champion from someone else who is not a champion. That's what most people lack, having the guts to go on and just say they'll go trough the pain! No matter what happens'

So I don't know, I thought u had to shock ur muscles ( keep on going even if it burns/hurts ) to make fast/good gains.. Now I'm all confused, what did I get wrong?

YOU NEVER EVER TRAIN THROUGH PAIN.

Doing so can lead to overuse injuries, tendonitis, tears, overtraining, CNS fatigue etc. Some overuse injuries may need months of rehab, surgery or even end your bodybuilding career.

Arnold was a genetic freak, took steroids. His whole day 24/7 revolved around bodybuilding. You cant replicate the same bodybuilding program a steroid taking, pro bodybuilder does. You will fail.

Arnold was also known for making up alot of BS about his training, methods etc. So dont believe everything he said.


Old time strongman never , olympic weightlifters dont train through pain or too failure and they can still manage to put on muscle mass and growth. Using this method they even manage to lift weights that arnold could only dream about. So NO you dont need to train through the pain to gain strength and muscle mass.

Here is good informative post concerning why not train through pain.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?p=449449901

http://scoobysworkshop.com/mythWorkHarder.htm

Also if you want some inspiration and good training methods.


http://scoobysworkshop.com/index.htm

[mc-]

Halon makes some nice points. Here's a few more to consider:

Arnold may have made muscle gains DESPITE the pain he *may* have put himself through. WHo knows? and lots of folks call "pain" stuff that isn't an acute trauma related incident.

Ok that's one.

Two: muscle building happens in all sorts of ways.

The key with hypertrophy though, is load, recovery, VOLUME and of course food.

Chad Waterbury (huge in a hurry) and Charles Staley (EDT) and Bryan Haycock (HST)
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

all use various types of volume/speed/recovery/loads to induce strength building/muscle development.

NONE of them go near failure.

Failure is a limited, dated kind of concept related to GH which is just one part of the muscle building picture.
Trying to push through fatigue, failure or pain is not making your nervous system happy, and that means you get to pay for that lack of happiness: when are you most likely to make a form mistake? when least likely?

So no pain...no pain.

If you want more info on reasonable programs for exceptional gains with good progress, any of those three authors will get you going - without driving yourself into pain.

best
mc

[Triistan]

Thanks for ur response guys, I watched the principe of HST on their site, I'd like to test some routine. Do u know where I can find HST routine's for my goal ( getting serious lean mass, I weight 67kg 11-12% bf and want to be 75kg 7-8% bf and than when I reach it I'm gonna train endurance ( long reps ) and want to get more strength too.. Maybe going to do MMA.

But does HST give u alot of mass muscle but not strength/good muscles?

Nice site http://scoobysworkshop.com/general_philosophy.htm

[mc-]

Thanks for ur response guys, I watched the principe of HST on their site, I'd like to test some routine. Do u know where I can find HST routine's for my goal ( getting serious lean mass, I weight 67kg 11-12% bf and want to be 75kg 7-8% bf and than when I reach it I'm gonna train endurance ( long reps ) and want to get more strength too.. Maybe going to do MMA.

But does HST give u alot of mass muscle but not strength/good muscles?

Nice site http://scoobysworkshop.com/general_philosophy.htm

I think there's a real misconception about body building and strength and athletic performance.

Strength in a sport is a skill. You have to practice the skill to get good at turning on and off muscle fibers in a coordinated way to achieve your goal, whether it's MMA or Tennis.

If MMA is your focus, your strength program is best designed to support that focus. HST is designed to support lifting medium amounts of load (relative to absolute strength) for high volume effort.

Is that related to MMA?
Maybe not so much.

Ok, then what kind of strength workouts are? Ballistic work: that's kettlebells and olympic lifting for fast power; complex work like deads and squats for muscle fiber coordination.

But mainly you need endurance strength and power. SO, if i were coaching you, you'd be doing endurance/power workouts, which means endurance work and kettlebells for ballistics/grinds work as a COMPLEMENT to your martial arts work.

pends on your focus.

If mma is just an aside to your body work, then HST it is.

Look at chad waterbury's stuff for strength programs for athletes.

best
mc

[Triistan]

I think there's a real misconception about body building and strength and athletic performance.

Strength in a sport is a skill. You have to practice the skill to get good at turning on and off muscle fibers in a coordinated way to achieve your goal, whether it's MMA or Tennis.

If MMA is your focus, your strength program is best designed to support that focus. HST is designed to support lifting medium amounts of load (relative to absolute strength) for high volume effort.

Is that related to MMA?
Maybe not so much.

Ok, then what kind of strength workouts are? Ballistic work: that's kettlebells and olympic lifting for fast power; complex work like deads and squats for muscle fiber coordination.

But mainly you need endurance strength and power. SO, if i were coaching you, you'd be doing endurance/power workouts, which means endurance work and kettlebells for ballistics/grinds work as a COMPLEMENT to your martial arts work.

pends on your focus.

If mma is just an aside to your body work, then HST it is.

Look at chad waterbury's stuff for strength programs for athletes.

best
mc

thanks again for the information, I will surtenly train for my martial art but now I wanna grow like a bodybuilder till I reach the physique I want while training strength ofc because I'm lifting highweights and then move to endurance, kettles etc.. when I start MMA. I will see for his programs and gonna try a HST program for mass