Q and A - John Broz's approach to bulgarian/krastev training

[King922]

Ok! Also about how long do your workouts last? Do you have your lifters eat a little during the workout if it is longer? And how much time do you take between sets usually?

[crackyflipside]

Is the training different for lightweights than super heavyweights?

[nick1990]

Platelet-Rich Plasma treatment. It's something you have to have a doctor do for you who's educated in the technique. Basically they extract platelets from your blood and inject them into the injury site.

Does anyone know more about this treament?
Sounds amazing from what I have read so far
Would this help old injuries like labrum tears?

[BrozKnows]

Ok! Also about how long do your workouts last? Do you have your lifters eat a little during the workout if it is longer? And how much time do you take between sets usually?

Morning workouts are usually 1-2 hrs, the afternoon is 3-4 hrs.

never eat during and I encourage to not drink either. Eat before, between sessions and immediately after lifting we have protein shake, creatine and simple sugars before leaving the gym.

between Snatch and C/J we take 10-15 min break. between PS and PC, 5 min. No time before squats. they follow immediately after the lifts are completed.

[BrozKnows]

Is the training different for lightweights than super heavyweights?

Yes. The "midgets" as Krastev used to refer to them as can train more frequently then the "fatties". Larger people have more tissue to circulate blood through so smaller people can recover a bit faster. Also, the shear amount of tonnage that a super lifts is more than a lightweight. This is why the lighter lifters can train more frequently and do more overall volume.

[nick1990]

sorry for this completely useless question, but where would i go to find outlines/examples of your training and what it consists of?
thanks

[jonny62]

Hey John,

Was wondering what (if any) other exercise are needed for someone who wants to bulk up quite abit while training with the c&j/snatch/front & bk squat?

I love Olympic lifting but really need to add mass to my big frame...are things like OH pressing needed to do this? (was going to do chins and dips anyway for personal goals)

Is bulking up on this simply do the training and eat alots and lots?

I ask because I see alot of O guys who can obv lift alot more than me but aren't as big as I am right now.

Edit - As a side note, my dad has a house in Bulgaria and is planning to move over there soon! lol, thought that was slightly relevant.

[gewaltiger]

it took me 11 tries to snatch my max yesterday, finally nailing it on the last try. should i have stopped at around 3-6 attempts or keep going if i want to push myself? im concerned about its affects on my recovery now im still in the dark times (only 4-5 days into training every day) and my hurts like a bitch, so i want to push it harder to get through this faster and adapt.

[JoeMG90]

Coach thanks for coming back to answer questions.

You say that the muscle tisse and conective tissue do not recover at the same pace, and therefore if you miss a day of training you must not go to a true max in the next session.

Im following the powerlifting routine mentioned in the other thread (squats 6 times per week) as its squats 6 days on 1 day off, would you still recomend not going to a true max after the rest day? If am able to squat 7 days a week I will as i assume you would encourage that.

You also mentioned before how the upper body muscles do not recover as quickly, and so you recomended benching only 3 times per week going to max. Is it possible to build up to benching 4,5 mabye 6 times per week? or is it too much to handle?

If it is a good way to progress in the lift and build up to more bench sessions a week, how would you implement it?

thanks

[ev1bl]

First of all i need to say thanks for opening my eyes to squatting everyday. I started three weeks ago and its been awesome. However, I believe I have som anterior pelvic tilt which makes my knees hurt from constantly being leaned slightly forward - both on squats and when walking. How do you keep your athletes from developing atp, or do you know some good techniques for fixing it?

[crackyflipside]

sorry for this completely useless question, but where would i go to find outlines/examples of your training and what it consists of?
thanks

Basically you build your work volume so you are able to do many sessions a day of max lifts including squats.

This is what I do:

Day
1a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---1b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
2a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---2b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
3a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---3b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
4a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---4b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
5a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---5b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
6a: Max sn, max cj, max fs + volume---6b:Max sn + volume, max cj + volume, max bs + volume
7a: Max fs + volume---7b: Max bs + volume, misc lifting

I may add in extra assistance on normal days, just one additional assistance lift if I feel a body part isn't balanced. Right now I'm adapting to adding volume work to the front squat maxes in the morning sessions so I dropped the classic lift volume in the second session. When I feel ready, then I'll add the classic lift volume back into the second session. Also been contemplating adding a third session for a few days that I have the time for. Squatting to max and doing volume work with ~90% is the easiest part of the program to be completely honest, the volume work on the classic lifts is what drains the soul from your body.

[King922]

I was wondering do you think that it is essential to sleep between sessions or is that just ideal?

[GoJu]

what do your lifters do for low back strength when just squats and occasional pulls by themselves aren't doing the job, I ask because I'm having a very hard time keeping a tight arch and abs on any clean at or above 90kg but I've recently snatched 80kg, what could my problem be?

[123lift321]

Thanks for coming back and taking the time to answer all of these questions! I have started training everyday doing SN, CL and JK, BSq/FSq and am really responding well to it. But, one issue I have always had is that my FSq and BSq are really close in strength (150kg FSq but only a 155Kg BSq). Will it sort it self out if i continue to alternate BS and FS or should i forgo front squat for a while and just work back squat everyday until it gets better?

[BrozKnows]

Hey John,

Was wondering what (if any) other exercise are needed for someone who wants to bulk up quite abit while training with the c&j/snatch/front & bk squat?

I love Olympic lifting but really need to add mass to my big frame...are things like OH pressing needed to do this? (was going to do chins and dips anyway for personal goals)

Is bulking up on this simply do the training and eat alots and lots?

I ask because I see alot of O guys who can obv lift alot more than me but aren't as big as I am right now.

Edit - As a side note, my dad has a house in Bulgaria and is planning to move over there soon! lol, thought that was slightly relevant.

If you do the exercises that you specified then it's very difficult to not get bigger. For other upper body mass exercises I might add push presses for 5's and pullups for total reps of 50

[BrozKnows]

it took me 11 tries to snatch my max yesterday, finally nailing it on the last try. should i have stopped at around 3-6 attempts or keep going if i want to push myself? im concerned about its affects on my recovery now im still in the dark times (only 4-5 days into training every day) and my hurts like a bitch, so i want to push it harder to get through this faster and adapt.

There are maximum attempt guidelines that I use. Usually for experienced lifters we go to 1 rep max then take a maximum of 6 attempts for snatch at higher weight to strike a PR. the c/j usually only 3. There are occasions when, depending on attitude and aggressiveness I let them continue to go after a weight as long as I believe that they have a shot at making it. The second that attempts look like they can't be made any longer I stop them. Usually when this happens the next lift is pretty much blasted, but if it results in a PR, then it's worth it. I have said many times that I have taken numerous attempts at certain weights. Usually it's when I have a goal or reached a time deadline that I set for my self and MUST make that lift by that day! This approach is ok - Once in a while, but you only have so much energy and if you shoot it all on one lift - especially the Snatch, then the c/j becomes VERY difficult that day. As long as you make certain that you make it through the balance of the lifts that day with equal intensity then it's a GO.

[BrozKnows]

I was wondering do you think that it is essential to sleep between sessions or is that just ideal?

not essential but ideal. if you can't sleep, simply closing your eyes is a huge +. The eyes burn a lot of energy. closing them will conserve a ton.

[BrozKnows]

what do your lifters do for low back strength when just squats and occasional pulls by themselves aren't doing the job, I ask because I'm having a very hard time keeping a tight arch and abs on any clean at or above 90kg but I've recently snatched 80kg, what could my problem be?

two things:

1) do cleans before snatches.

Switching the order of the lifts is ok when one is pulling away from the other. There will be times that one lift will begin to excel and the other stagnate. when this happens, switch the order and focus your power on the lagging one. Practice makes perfect.



2) Hold the bar overhead for 3-4 seconds after EVERY lift, regardless if its max or just the bar.

Most lifters that I observe lift too fast. They lift like they have somewhere to be and they are running late, or like they want to put on a show because it's so impressive to lift and drop it quickly and appear to be some sort of Professional. Nonsense!! If I timed how long most lifters have the bar fixed overhead during an entire workout it would surely be less than 30 seconds. Holding the bar overhead for 3 sec each lift will add a minimum of 300% more overhead time, every workout. This is invaluable. Holding the bar will build essential core muscles along with adding needed confidence with max attempts.

[BrozKnows]

Thanks for coming back and taking the time to answer all of these questions! I have started training everyday doing SN, CL and JK, BSq/FSq and am really responding well to it. But, one issue I have always had is that my FSq and BSq are really close in strength (150kg FSq but only a 155Kg BSq). Will it sort it self out if i continue to alternate BS and FS or should i forgo front squat for a while and just work back squat everyday until it gets better?

This is common for beginners. I have seen this with almost every lifter that I have had. Continue to do both and eventually your BS will begin to make leaps and bounds when you sort out your positions.

I can almost guarantee without even seeing you lift that if you focus on keeping your air when you go down (which helps the torso stay big and rigid) and keep your chest up and out, you will probably add 10-15 kg immediately to your BS.

[PeonLover]

When I was watching videos of Pat's max snatches it seems as if he really tears the weight off the floor and doesn't do the exaggerated slow first pull that is taught to so many American weightlifters. Is this how you teach the lifts with a faster first pull instead of the slow first or is it just how Pat works best?

[BrozKnows]

When I was watching videos of Pat's max snatches it seems as if he really tears the weight off the floor and doesn't do the exaggerated slow first pull that is taught to so many American weightlifters. Is this how you teach the lifts with a faster first pull instead of the slow first or is it just how Pat works best?

One of the most important things in OL is consistency. Lifting the bar the same way every time regardless of how much weight is on the bar. To do this you must fight to keep your positions. Sometimes the fight to hold positions is harder than the effort to lift the bar high enough. When this is the case then you must pull the bar slower to make certain that you stay in proper positioning for the second pull. IF holding the correct position is not the issue and you can pull faster and maintain the correct bar path, then of course you should move faster. "The fastest athlete is the best athlete".

Pulling the bar off the floor intentionally slow should only be done when there is an inconsistency with positions. Once the correct body positions and bar movement is learned then the lifter should aspire to move quickly. IF the athlete never gets to the point when they can pull fast off the floor it's ok because the first pull can't make a lift, it can only miss a lift if done incorrectly. It's true purpose is to simply get past the knees and set up for the second pull. The second pull is what makes the lift.

When my new lifters begin to lift they all pull slow, finish slow, get under the bar slow, BUT as time progresses and they learn to lift the speed comes. Eventually you will be able to unleash all your power and not have to "think" about your positions because the lift becomes second nature. This is one of the key reasons for doing the lifts everyday. Keep lifting over and over and the speed will come.

[BrozKnows]

Coach thanks for coming back to answer questions.

You say that the muscle tisse and conective tissue do not recover at the same pace, and therefore if you miss a day of training you must not go to a true max in the next session.

Im following the powerlifting routine mentioned in the other thread (squats 6 times per week) as its squats 6 days on 1 day off, would you still recomend not going to a true max after the rest day? If am able to squat 7 days a week I will as i assume you would encourage that.

You also mentioned before how the upper body muscles do not recover as quickly, and so you recomended benching only 3 times per week going to max. Is it possible to build up to benching 4,5 mabye 6 times per week? or is it too much to handle?

If it is a good way to progress in the lift and build up to more bench sessions a week, how would you implement it?

thanks

On the day off if you are completely idle and don't do any lifting then going to max the following day should be avoided. IF you do DL, or some other movement and not specifically squats, it's ok to go max.

I have never experimented with benching that much. I suppose that benching max 6x a week might be possible but because the shoulder joint is the most complicated one in the body I probably wouldn't try more than 3x/wk max. The shoulder is designed for a multitude of movements, not just pressing in one direction. the legs are designed differently then our arms in terms of the muscle use when pushing/pressing.

If you were to try to go max everyday in bench, make certain that you do supplemental exercises to balance the side and rear delts, and upper back. If you develop a muscle imbalance in the shoulder you will have issues- guaranteed.

If I was going to progress this way I might do something like M-W-F max then T-R-S do supp movements. gradually I would add more benching (light) on T-R-S, then add more sup work on M-W-F, then go heavier on T-R-S, etc. Every 2-4 weeks just add a bit more then you did before. DON'T neglect the health of your shoulders and the overall balance of the joint! Simply doing bench will not be enough. I would also do curls if I was benching everyday to help the elbow stay healthy.

[hakado]

Great info here for an Olympic lifting newbie like me. In the opening video, Coach Broz talks about the "St. Clair" (at least that what it sounded like) formula for measuring what I assume to be relative strength. I'd love to see some more info on that and calculate just far how I need to go and to set some goals.

[ZidaneValor]

It's actually the Sinclair Formula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Coefficients

[hakado]

Thank you sir!

[olyw8lifter]

Thank you sir!

Also, there is a calculator on the Queensland Weightlifting website.

http://www.qwa.org/Liftstats/calculate.asp

Don't use the one with the age in it unless you are a master lifter.

[crackyflipside]

Hey Broz, I hit a back squat PR after working up to a max but it was by doing doubles instead of singles. I think it could be an easy way to get more volume in. To take this idea further, could I work up to max with higher reps, like 5reps with light weights, triples to heavy, then singles to max for squats?

You've said before that the best way for elbow position holding the bar overhead is like one was doing a BTN press, so when you do presses for prehab/assistance work, would you rather the lifter do BTN work or regular press work?



Thanks for the answers to the other questions above, I will definitely be switching the order of my lagging lifts now that you answered that other question. Same thing goes with holding the bar overhead; I never thought of it that way.

[BrozKnows]

Hey Broz, I hit a back squat PR after working up to a max but it was by doing doubles instead of singles. I think it could be an easy way to get more volume in. To take this idea further, could I work up to max with higher reps, like 5reps with light weights, triples to heavy, then singles to max for squats?

That is how it's supposed to be done with the exception of possible doubles when you get closer to the max. What were you doing? singles all the way up?
A typical session to max might look like this:

bar x 5 x 2 sets (warming up positions)
70 x5 (possibly a 2nd set here as well depending on how fast and the overall positions)
120x3 (possibly a 2nd set here as well depending on how fast and the overall positions)
160x3
190x3
210x3
225x2
235x1
245x1
250x1

230x2 x 8

You've said before that the best way for elbow position holding the bar overhead is like one was doing a BTN press, so when you do presses for prehab/assistance work, would you rather the lifter do BTN work or regular press work?

Pressing from behind the neck is not a natural movement so avoid it. Do them from the front, but be sure to finish the lift in the correct receiving position for the jerk.

[gravelift]

Coach Broz

I understand the point about benching, i currently bench 3*wk and do a lot of horizontal/vertical pulling and rotator cuff work.

i wouldent bench more than 3*wk but i assume you would think that working up to push presses to every other day or everyday would be ok?

somthing along the lines of

day 1,3,5 bp
day 2,4,6 pp

or

day 1,3,5 bp
day 1,2,3,4,5,6 pp

thought?

[crackyflipside]

That is how it's supposed to be done with the exception of possible doubles when you get closer to the max. What were you doing? singles all the way up?

Yeah... but now that's fixed. BTW, switching the lift order added 10 pounds to clean and jerk.

For the clean and jerk working up to max, should I do two full clean and jerks or do one clean and multiple jerks if my focus is on the jerk for the warm-up weights?