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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    This is a complicated issue, imo and u need to thoroughly examine the situation before saying if it's halal or haram.
    I agree with this. This is why a lot of the sheikhs are staying away from this topic(even though I think they should address it). There have been a few sheikhs that have discussed it and brought out fatwas.

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    Asalamu Alaykum brothers and sisters,

    I just want to hear your opinion on this matter. Is it me or is the Riba/Loan topic rarely addressed by sheikhs and imams at our local mosques? This especially affects the young adults who are pursuing an education. In the past I always used to be under the impression that loans(with interest) were permissible if your intentions were correct. With further research I've found out this isnt correct but the problem lies that there are many of our muslim brothers and sisters in the west who still hold this belief. I speak to quite a few college students who believe this for whatever reason it may be. This isnt only on the young adults but also comes from the parents as well.

    I feel like the sheikhs should clearly address this issue because it is something affecting our families. I plan on discussing this with my local imams here but was wondering if the local imams in your area discuss this issue?

    Jazakallah Khair

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    Originally Posted by N.W.A View Post
    Asalamu Alaykum brothers and sisters,

    I just want to hear your opinion on this matter. Is it me or is the Riba/Loan topic rarely addressed by sheikhs and imams at our local mosques? This especially affects the young adults who are pursuing an education. In the past I always used to be under the impression that loans(with interest) were permissible if your intentions were correct. With further research I've found out this isnt correct but the problem lies that there are many of our muslim brothers and sisters in the west who still hold this belief. I speak to quite a few college students who believe this for whatever reason it may be. This isnt only on the young adults but also comes from the parents as well.

    I feel like the sheikhs should clearly address this issue because it is something affecting our families. I plan on discussing this with my local imams here but was wondering if the local imams in your area discuss this issue?

    Jazakallah Khair
    every muslim that knows anything about islam would know what they are doing is wrong. riba is one of the worst sins you can commit, and its akin to waging war with god. people may tlel themselves anything, but on the inside, unless your mentally handicapped, you will know its wrong.

    i agree with you; here in the US, sheiks are very avoidant when it comes to this topic and never mention it, and when asked, 99% of them will say its not haram.
    first lets make clear of the rule i nthe quran that states one may do something haram only if one is forced to - meaning there are no other options at all.

    looking at it from an educational point of view, its not a hard topic to attack. so many students get brainwashed into believing they have to go to a name brand school to become achievers - here they rack up an undergraduate debt of $100,000+. just knowing that is rediculous. now, it is by no means neccessary to go to a private university, when you could be paying a few thousand (or nothing if you have financial aid) if you attend city/state schools.
    What may make this topic highly debatable is, one could argue, the "need" to attend uni/college. You have this on one side, and on the other, you have the knowledge that no one can increase or decrease your sustenance in this life other than God - so by this one can say there is no promise they will make "more" money going to school.

    Every muslim ive spoken to in person claims riba for education or even homes is not haram.

    Anotehr debatable issue is about buying a house. If you pay rent and live under rent for so many years, it is obvious all those years you spent on rent could have gone towards a mortgage - but instead in the end you own nothing and conintue to pay.
    Another problem is children. Some muslim families tend to get big, and i can tel lyou at least here in ny, no one is going ot rent an apartment to someone with 5 kids.
    you could get lucky and rent a house but it will most likely be in a suburban area (most likely far from your job), and, you will end up paying more rent for the house than the cost would be to mortgage it.

    for me personally, the issues this topic arouses is substantial - the question comes to mind if religion is really from God an to be unchanged for all of eternity - as we can see as todays circumstances it is diffucult to avoid. even if you go to an affordable undergrad, you still must assume you can afford even that, and then afford higher education as well. On top of all this, we are burdened with the warning agaisnt premarital sex, compounded by the circumstances of modern society. sex is an integral and healthy part of human life, and lack thereof leaves one missing something. i am not for zina in any way, but marriage in todays society is very difficult.
    Allah says in the quran that religion was meant to make our life easy - in my opnion, i dont think Islam was meant to be practiced in a non-muslim society - too many problems arise. some people, thank god, are able to cope with this, while for others the situations they are in make it near impossible - certainly not providing "ease" in life.
    Last edited by BigBeard86; 02-07-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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    Salaam.

    Nice to see you back SP.

    Do you guys go college? I have no Mosque near me, what do I do?
    Hi, Peace.

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    Originally Posted by N.W.A View Post
    Welcome back bro.
    Jazakallah bro!

    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    Salaam.

    Nice to see you back SP.

    Do you guys go college? I have no Mosque near me, what do I do?
    Jazakallah bro!

    Go to Uni, yes 24 and started this year i attempt to turn my life around... We have prayer facilities. Just take a clean cloth, do wudhu and pray in a quiet crevice somewhere?
    Ummah reps fo' life... ?يوماد برآه

    2:78. Among them are unlettered ones who do not know the scripture, except in wishful thinking, then assume that they know it.

    Non-ignorant American Crew - 2012

    ATTENTION MANLETS: PM me if you would like info on how to grow taller!

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    Originally Posted by BigBeard86 View Post
    every muslim that knows anything about islam would know what they are doing is wrong. riba is one of the worst sins you can commit, and its akin to waging war with god. people may tlel themselves anything, but on the inside, unless your mentally handicapped, you will know its wrong.

    i agree with you; here in the US, sheiks are very avoidant when it comes to this topic and never mention it, and when asked, 99% of them will say its not haram.
    first lets make clear of the rule i nthe quran that states one may do something haram only if one is forced to - meaning there are no other options at all.

    looking at it from an educational point of view, its not a hard topic to attack. so many students get brainwashed into believing they have to go to a name brand school to become achievers - here they rack up an undergraduate debt of $100,000+. just knowing that is rediculous. now, it is by no means neccessary to go to a private university, when you could be paying a few thousand (or nothing if you have financial aid) if you attend city/state schools.
    What may make this topic highly debatable is, one could argue, the "need" to attend uni/college. You have this on one side, and on the other, you have the knowledge that no one can increase or decrease your sustenance in this life other than God - so by this one can say there is no promise they will make "more" money going to school.

    Every muslim ive spoken to in person claims riba for education or even homes is not haram.

    Anotehr debatable issue is about buying a house. If you pay rent and live under rent for so many years, it is obvious all those years you spent on rent could have gone towards a mortgage - but instead in the end you own nothing and conintue to pay.
    Another problem is children. Some muslim families tend to get big, and i can tel lyou at least here in ny, no one is going ot rent an apartment to someone with 5 kids.
    you could get lucky and rent a house but it will most likely be in a suburban area (most likely far from your job), and, you will end up paying more rent for the house than the cost would be to mortgage it.

    for me personally, the issues this topic arouses is substantial - the question comes to mind if religion is really from God an to be unchanged for all of eternity - as we can see as todays circumstances it is diffucult to avoid. even if you go to an affordable undergrad, you still must assume you can afford even that, and then afford higher education as well. On top of all this, we are burdened with the warning agaisnt premarital sex, compounded by the circumstances of modern society. sex is an integral and healthy part of human life, and lack thereof leaves one missing something. i am not for zina in any way, but marriage in todays society is very difficult.
    Allah says in the quran that religion was meant to make our life easy - in my opnion, i dont think Islam was meant to be practiced in a non-muslim society - too many problems arise. some people, thank god, are able to cope with this, while for others the situations they are in make it near impossible - certainly not providing "ease" in life.
    Jazakallah for writing your opinion. I agree that

    On the education topic some scholars have said that since education isnt wajib then loans that accumulate interest are not permissible. If it was life/death situation then obviously that would be different. Sadly our it seems that our sheikhs are trying to please the masses instead of following the quran and sunnah. There are other ways of paying for college as i've found out since researching this topic. Students can apply for scholarships and try to see if they qualify for financial aid from any of these institutes. Also community colleges nowadays are the way to go with tuition on the rise. At the end of the day your employer will not care if you attended CC. Some scholars have argued that taking a loan that will allow you to pay it off 6-12 months after finishing school without interesting accumulating is allowed. Wallahu Alim.

    It does seem like it's hard with the housing issue. Personally I dont see any point in purchasing a house and feel fine with a rented house, alhamudullilah. There is an Islamic Bank in the US that helps you purchase a house as Ive seen a family member do. Though it seems that Islamic Banks in the west are a bit controversial so I dont know how pure the money really is, wallahu alim.

    I feel like we should all try to get our local imams to address this issue probably for a friday lecture, insha'allah.

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    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    Salaam.

    Nice to see you back SP.

    Do you guys go college? I have no Mosque near me, what do I do?
    Like Skinpoppin we have a prayer facility at our university, alhamdullilah. Before that though we used to pray outside in a quiet area.

    Try to petition for one though.

  8. #6278
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    Originally Posted by BigBeard86 View Post
    for me personally, the issues this topic arouses is substantial - the question comes to mind if religion is really from God an to be unchanged for all of eternity - as we can see as todays circumstances it is diffucult to avoid. even if you go to an affordable undergrad, you still must assume you can afford even that, and then afford higher education as well. On top of all this, we are burdened with the warning agaisnt premarital sex, compounded by the circumstances of modern society. sex is an integral and healthy part of human life, and lack thereof leaves one missing something. i am not for zina in any way, but marriage in todays society is very difficult.
    Allah says in the quran that religion was meant to make our life easy - in my opnion, i dont think Islam was meant to be practiced in a non-muslim society - too many problems arise. some people, thank god, are able to cope with this, while for others the situations they are in make it near impossible - certainly not providing "ease" in life.
    Lol this is nothing new from bigbeard86. As usual he has much to complain about, i've read ur posts in the past and SK went over these issues with you.

    I would like to clear something that it was portended by the prophet (pbuh) that a time will come when no one will be safe from riba. That is probably a sufficient proof for the one that seeks the truth. If you think accumulating worldly wealth will make you happy and successful then you're wrong.

    Secondly, look at what zina has done to western society. Divorce rate over 50%? Zero trust? You say you're not for "zina" yet you forward the idea of having sex out of marriage since marriage is not the optimal choice for you (for whatever reason). What you've described IS zina! Changing the name of the sin to make yourself feel better or something? The messenger (pbuh) of Allah said:

    Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari & Muslim)

    You last sentence is horrible considering that fact that there are many, many pious muslims living in the west. Moreover, the Sahabah (may God be pleased with them) and the Prophet (pbuh) suffered the most to protect this deen, you have no excuse in practicing the religion of Allah.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    Salaam.

    Nice to see you back SP.

    Do you guys go college? I have no Mosque near me, what do I do?
    Make your own 'group' in college bro. We have our muslim group in college and MashAllah we pray in congregation while in college. You can easily find a place somewhere in some empty hallway to pray.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by wellwisher4u View Post
    Did Prophet(saw) appoint Ahlebayt as his successors to succeed after his death?

    http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress....ter-his-death/
    Thanks
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Where can this book be found in English?

    Al-Bidaya wa'l-Nihaya
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Salaam.

    1) Thanks for the answers guys, it would be possible to pray, but Jumaa is required to go pray in a Mosque as a first choice. I have no Mosque near me, its too far from my College. It sucks because I have one class a week and it lands on Fridays from 10am-5pm. I am here for 4 months and I think its a travesty to miss 4 months of not going to a Mosque for Jumma.

    Is it ok to find people and make our own Jumma in a prayer room?

    2) Is it haraam to be led in prayer by a clean shaven man? Some good proof for this please.
    Hi, Peace.

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    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    Salaam.

    1) Thanks for the answers guys, it would be possible to pray, but Jumaa is required to go pray in a Mosque as a first choice. I have no Mosque near me, its too far from my College. It sucks because I have one class a week and it lands on Fridays from 10am-5pm. I am here for 4 months and I think its a travesty to miss 4 months of not going to a Mosque for Jumma.

    Is it ok to find people and make our own Jumma in a prayer room?
    This all depends on the Madhab(School of thought) you follow.There is certain criteria which needs to be met in order to perform Juma in your area.
    - Needs to be a group prayer;
    - that it take place during the time of noon prayer(zuhr);
    - that it follow two sermons
    - that its site be located among the dwellings of the community;
    - that there be a minimum of forty participants who are male(shaafi), have reached puberty, are sane, and are local residents, meaning they live there and do not leave except when they need to.The imam is counted as one of the forty
    - minimum according to Abu Hanifa is three participants besides the imam

    There are other integral parts which also need to be fulfilled regarding the sermon(Khutbah),the salaah,etc.

    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    2) Is it haraam to be led in prayer by a clean shaven man? Some good proof for this please.
    Not haraam.It is Makrooh(disliked) because Islam considers a man who shaves his beard to be a Faasiq(flagrant sinner).

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Lol this is nothing new from bigbeard86. As usual he has much to complain about, i've read ur posts in the past and SK went over these issues with you.

    I would like to clear something that it was portended by the prophet (pbuh) that a time will come when no one will be safe from riba. That is probably a sufficient proof for the one that seeks the truth. If you think accumulating worldly wealth will make you happy and successful then you're wrong.

    Secondly, look at what zina has done to western society. Divorce rate over 50%? Zero trust? You say you're not for "zina" yet you forward the idea of having sex out of marriage since marriage is not the optimal choice for you (for whatever reason). What you've described IS zina! Changing the name of the sin to make yourself feel better or something? The messenger (pbuh) of Allah said:

    Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari & Muslim)

    You last sentence is horrible considering that fact that there are many, many pious muslims living in the west. Moreover, the Sahabah (may God be pleased with them) and the Prophet (pbuh) suffered the most to protect this deen, you have no excuse in practicing the religion of Allah.
    you have read my post with a scheme of hatred before you read it. as i said, i dont condone premarital sex, my only point was to mention the difficulty that arises in todays society, especially in the west, dealing with the extreme temptation and the harship of being able to marry.
    the prophet also said a time will come when holding onto your religion would be akin to holding a hot coal. the prohet also said that people that come after the sahaba will actually be better then the past sahaba because of the trials we will go through and the simple fact that we will believe without seeing.

    how is my last sentence horrible? what i said was true and fair. i said some people are able to practice in a non-muslim society and soem arent as much. there are millions of muslims in ny. do you know how many are in the masjids? i can count on my fingers. are you gonna tell me it wouldnt be exponentially easier to practice islam in an islamic country? where people know what it menas when its time to pray and there are no questions asked?

    some extremist wahabi scholars (islamqa.com) will tell you its actually forbidden to live in a non muslim land.

    this is all my post tried to point out and never tried to attack or undermine anything. the point i was relating to is the fact that every imam imve spoken to said riba is not haram for school, and some say even for a house for the family. the examples i gave were reasons that i personally believe the sheiks base their words on.

    get the arrogance and hatred out of you, be aware everything that you say can affect someone and you will be responsible for the things you say.

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    Originally Posted by BigBeard86 View Post
    some extremist wahabi scholars (islamqa.com) will tell you its actually forbidden to live in a non muslim land.

    this is all my post tried to point out and never tried to attack or undermine anything. the point i was relating to is the fact that every imam imve spoken to said riba is not haram for school, and some say even for a house for the family. the examples i gave were reasons that i personally believe the sheiks base their words on.
    Asalamu Alaykum,
    This is when blind following gets dangerous in Islam. If an imam says something that goes against the quran and/or sunnah then we shouldnt follow it. The four imams even spoke against blind following. Remember to try to always refer to the Quran and Sunnah when trying to understand an issue.

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    Originally Posted by BigBeard86 View Post
    you have read my post with a scheme of hatred before you read it. as i said, i dont condone premarital sex, my only point was to mention the difficulty that arises in todays society, especially in the west, dealing with the extreme temptation and the harship of being able to marry.
    the prophet also said a time will come when holding onto your religion would be akin to holding a hot coal. the prohet also said that people that come after the sahaba will actually be better then the past sahaba because of the trials we will go through and the simple fact that we will believe without seeing.

    how is my last sentence horrible? what i said was true and fair. i said some people are able to practice in a non-muslim society and soem arent as much. there are millions of muslims in ny. do you know how many are in the masjids? i can count on my fingers. are you gonna tell me it wouldnt be exponentially easier to practice islam in an islamic country? where people know what it menas when its time to pray and there are no questions asked?

    some extremist wahabi scholars (islamqa.com) will tell you its actually forbidden to live in a non muslim land.

    this is all my post tried to point out and never tried to attack or undermine anything. the point i was relating to is the fact that every imam imve spoken to said riba is not haram for school, and some say even for a house for the family. the examples i gave were reasons that i personally believe the sheiks base their words on.

    get the arrogance and hatred out of you, be aware everything that you say can affect someone and you will be responsible for the things you say.
    Here is what you said:

    for me personally, the issues this topic arouses is substantial - the question comes to mind if religion is really from God an to be unchanged for all of eternity
    You've always had an attitude of a cry-baby and now you want to transfer this same attitude to the Muslims in this thread. Your arguments always amount to "well, religion is too difficult for me to follow, hence i don't think it's from God." You miss the integral part of Islamic teaching which is that life IS a trial. You are not here to fulfill your desires, desires are for celestial world. You're in fact discouraging the Muslims in this thread from practicing the deen and fulfilling the Sunnah of the prophet (pbuh). I warn everyone to check your history where you continually bring up the issue of "this is too difficult to do, that is too difficult... girls are every where how can i not commit zina? I am busy i cant pray. and the list of complains go on." Spare us this attitude. We continually remind you of the example of pious muslim brothers and sisters living a successful life in the west. Don't discourage people from following Islam. If you noticed, i didn't bother to quote the part of your quote dealing with riba. But i did, however, highlighte your continuous complaints and your weak attitude that might have a negative influence on people ITT.

    the prophet also said a time will come when holding onto your religion would be akin to holding a hot coal. the prohet also said that people that come after the sahaba will actually be better then the past sahaba because of the trials we will go through and the simple fact that we will believe without seeing.
    This makes you sound even more clueless. If you see that the prophecies are coming true then what makes you think the religion is not from God?

    Take care dude. I am not going stretch out this argument since that is not the purpose of this thread. You can have the last word
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by Jericho786 View Post
    Salaam.

    1) Thanks for the answers guys, it would be possible to pray, but Jumaa is required to go pray in a Mosque as a first choice. I have no Mosque near me, its too far from my College. It sucks because I have one class a week and it lands on Fridays from 10am-5pm. I am here for 4 months and I think its a travesty to miss 4 months of not going to a Mosque for Jumma.

    Is it ok to find people and make our own Jumma in a prayer room?

    2) Is it haraam to be led in prayer by a clean shaven man? Some good proof for this please.
    1) We pray in a room in college. If you don't have any mosque nearby then it's better to pray somewhere in college then to miss it.

    2) I highly doubt that it'd be haraam but it's better for someone who completely follows the Sunnah to lead prayer.

    Probably check this: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?ID=11200
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    Originally Posted by mujie View Post
    This all depends on the Madhab(School of thought) you follow.There is certain criteria which needs to be met in order to perform Juma in your area.
    - Needs to be a group prayer;
    - that it take place during the time of noon prayer(zuhr);
    - that it follow two sermons
    - that its site be located among the dwellings of the community;
    - that there be a minimum of forty participants who are male(shaafi), have reached puberty, are sane, and are local residents, meaning they live there and do not leave except when they need to.The imam is counted as one of the forty
    - minimum according to Abu Hanifa is three participants besides the imam

    There are other integral parts which also need to be fulfilled regarding the sermon(Khutbah),the salaah,etc.


    Not haraam.It is Makrooh(disliked) because Islam considers a man who shaves his beard to be a Faasiq(flagrant sinner).
    that there be a minimum of forty participants who are male(shaafi), have reached puberty, are sane, and are local residents, meaning they live there and do not leave except when they need to.The imam is counted as one of the forty
    Bro which madhab teaches this? I've never heard about it. Doesn't sound reasonable because there could be many communities around the world where 40 Muslim people don't live altogether! Does that mean they don't pray Jumma? Of course not.
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    SK, I have a question. What was the relation of Waraqah ibn Nawfal to Khadija and the Prophet Muhammed?

    Is it true as the biography of the Prophet by Ibn Hisham says, he was an Ebionite priest?

    If true, is this not suspect that a Heretical Christian sect's priest whose beliefs mirror Islam almost exactly, was related to the Prophet? (Islam has often been called heretical Christianity by many commentators and Christians)

    Thanks
    Last edited by makavelli1988; 02-10-2011 at 06:08 AM.

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    chasma, your personal attacks dont due any good to anyone. you still obviously misinterpreted everything i said. btw, cover your awrah in your avi.

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    I'm just talking about the hostility in this thread. When there is hostility, then rationality is thrown out of the window and people will say anything to win the arguement. I'm not saying it has happened, but who knows it might. I think we shouldn't get tense and try to spread information to the best of our ability, not get angry and rationally discuss things.

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    Is it haraam to call things haraam that are not? I'm just saying this because I was reading that link on beards, and it says that some people think it is unlawful while others think its offensive. Why isn't there a consensus on the matter? And if it actually isn't unlawful, aren't those who are calling it unlawful sinning?

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    Originally Posted by BigBeard86 View Post
    chasma, your personal attacks dont due any good to anyone. you still obviously misinterpreted everything i said. btw, cover your awrah in your avi.
    I thought the awrah was between the naval and the thighs. I'll change the avi because i might be mistaken.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Bro which madhab teaches this? I've never heard about it. Doesn't sound reasonable because there could be many communities around the world where 40 Muslim people don't live altogether! Does that mean they don't pray Jumma? Of course not.
    Asalamu Alaykum,
    This is true in the Shafi'i madhab.

    In the Shafi'i book Reliance of Traveler it states:

    f18.3 Eligible Muslims living in a village where there are not forty men (n: the minimum required for a
    valid Friday prayer, as at f18.7(e)) must go to a larger town for the Friday prayer, when the two places
    are close enough that the call to prayer (adhan) from the larger town is audible to them under normal
    circumstances, given a calm wind and no interference. Audible means that the call of a man with a loud
    voice standing in the larger town on the side facing the village could be heard by a man with normal
    hearing standing on the side of the village facing the town. If such a a call would be inaudible, then the
    villagers are not obliged to go to pray the Friday prayer (A: but merely pray the noon prayer (zuhr)).
    Last edited by N.W.A; 02-08-2011 at 09:15 PM.

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    Originally Posted by paki123 View Post
    Is it haraam to call things haraam that are not?
    Yes

    Originally Posted by paki123 View Post
    I'm just saying this because I was reading that link on beards, and it says that some people think it is unlawful while others think its offensive. Why isn't there a consensus on the matter? And if it actually isn't unlawful, aren't those who are calling it unlawful sinning?
    Each school of thought bases their view on various proofs found in hadith,none of them sucked it out of their thumbs and gave their opinion based on what they felt was cool or not.If you follow the Shaafi madhab,then you can read the link below regarding the shaafi madhabs ruling on beards.

    http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1572&CATE=389

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    I thought the awrah was between the naval and the thighs. I'll change the avi because i might be mistaken.
    the navel is the belly button bro. i didnt know either what it was; i guess its just the proper term for it.

    as for the other question refering to saying something is haram when its actually not...i once spoke to a sheikh about something and he mentioned if he tells me something is haram when its not 100% clear, allah will question him about it on the day of judgement.
    there are also ayat in the quran (im pretty sure) that warn against forbidding thigns god has made permissble.

    the quran tells us we should obey allah and the prophet, so i can see why one can say shaving your beard is haram since the prophetr ordered us to let it grow, but its still dangerous to label something haram simply by infering.

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Lol this is nothing new from bigbeard86. As usual he has much to complain about, i've read ur posts in the past and SK went over these issues with you.

    I would like to clear something that it was portended by the prophet (pbuh) that a time will come when no one will be safe from riba. That is probably a sufficient proof for the one that seeks the truth. If you think accumulating worldly wealth will make you happy and successful then you're wrong.

    Secondly, look at what zina has done to western society. Divorce rate over 50%? Zero trust? You say you're not for "zina" yet you forward the idea of having sex out of marriage since marriage is not the optimal choice for you (for whatever reason). What you've described IS zina! Changing the name of the sin to make yourself feel better or something? The messenger (pbuh) of Allah said:

    Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari & Muslim)

    You last sentence is horrible considering that fact that there are many, many pious muslims living in the west. Moreover, the Sahabah (may God be pleased with them) and the Prophet (pbuh) suffered the most to protect this deen, you have no excuse in practicing the religion of Allah.
    I'd like to add to this. We Muslims are told that if problems arise in our land, making Islam difficult to practice, then migrate. When i became Muslim i had no idea how back wards, disunited and unorganised the Ummah is. I was even more shocked when i found that interest is rife in Muslim countries also. As stated, near the ends of time, escaping from Riba will be near impossible, it will turn up in nearly all situations regarding money in many different names and forms. However, there are always alternatives, you have to work harder for them but they are worth it. However, just because Islam is difficult to practice in any single non-Muslim society, that DOES NOT mean that it was 'not meant to be practised' in non-Muslim societies, that statement is just all out pathetic.
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Bro which madhab teaches this? I've never heard about it. Doesn't sound reasonable because there could be many communities around the world where 40 Muslim people don't live altogether! Does that mean they don't pray Jumma? Of course not.
    What about the notion that Jummah is not fardh or 'accepted' in a non-Islamic state?
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    Originally Posted by skinpoppin View Post
    What about the notion that Jummah is not fardh or 'accepted' in a non-Islamic state?
    I will need to see a proof of this! If it's because there aren't large communities around (>40) then who is to say that salah in congregation is also not accepted or encouraged?
    Last edited by chashma1; 02-09-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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    Originally Posted by N.W.A View Post
    Asalamu Alaykum,
    This is true in the Shafi'i madhab.

    In the Shafi'i book Reliance of Traveler it states:
    This is a news to me. I can't comprehend why the number 40? What if it's 39?

    How about in early days during the time of Sahabah(ra) and prophet(pbuh) when there were few Muslims, did they not pray Jumma? Need proof
    from Hadiths.
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