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  1. #1
    Registered User dohste's Avatar
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    Question Only incline presses?

    Hey

    I'm just questioning whether my decision to only use incline dumbbell presses and no flat presses was a wise one...?

    Basically, when I first started a few years back I only ever did flat presses and flyes etc. My pecs did develop but I ended up with what I can only describe as "droopy / almost saggy" looking pecs. After reading around a good bit on the net (inc. here) I came to the conclusion that this was the result of me only having done flat presses.

    I don't know how true this is, as my understanding is that the pectorals are just one muscle and not several different ones. But what I read was that flat presses work more the lower pecs and thus if only done can result in that saggy look.

    That was over a year back now, and having since only done incline presses and also focused a lot more on cardio / intensity training etc my pecs are fine again, but I don't seem to be able to build them up much.

    So two ques:
    1) Are flat presses really more effective for putting on more mass on the chest?
    2) Are there certain body types that react "badly" to too many flat presses (droppy looking pecs etc)?
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  2. #2
    Registered User older1's Avatar
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    I would say the incline is better for putting mass on your chest,but i dont think thats your problem. I think you need to incorporate more excercises into your chest routine.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Rocky3540's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by older1 View Post
    I would say the incline is better for putting mass on your chest,but i dont think thats your problem. I think you need to incorporate more excercises into your chest routine.
    I agree. I would stick with something like:
    1. Flat
    2. Incline
    3. Decline
    4. Fly's
    5. Dips(if you feel up to it)

    For each workout i will alternate Decline and Fly's. I usually do about 3-5 sets of each.
    As i get older I am realizing i have to get while the gettings good. I can put stats and PR's up here all day long. But, the main concepts with my workouts....
    1. GO BIG OR GO HOME.
    2. FORM IS EVERYTHING
    3. BREATHE.
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  4. #4
    Registered User dohste's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    My routine for my chest at the moment is:

    incline dumbbell presses - x12, x10, x8, x6, x12 (where weight increases as reps go down), followed by a superset of incline dumbbell fly's. And that then twice a week (Monday and Friday)

    So you're right about the lack of variety. I might try sticking to just 8 reps and then something like:

    incline dumbbell presses x8, x8
    flat dumbbell presses x8, x8
    incline dumbbell fly's x8, x8
    Butterfly machine or Dips: super-set to failure.
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  5. #5
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rocky3540 View Post
    I agree. I would stick with something like:
    1. Flat
    2. Incline
    3. Decline
    4. Fly's
    5. Dips(if you feel up to it)

    For each workout i will alternate Decline and Fly's. I usually do about 3-5 sets of each.
    There's no reason to do decline if he does dips. It shortens the range of motion, anyway.
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  6. #6
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    30 seconds MAX between sets.

    6 x 6 Incline BB
    6 x 6 Flat DB
    6 x 10-12 Incline Fly's
    6 x 10-12 Cable Crossovers
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  7. #7
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    30 seconds MAX between sets.

    6 x 6 Incline BB
    6 x 6 Flat DB
    6 x 10-12 Incline Fly's
    6 x 10-12 Cable Crossovers
    Why such short rest times? That just compromises the weight that he can use.
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    My progress:

    Weight: 207

    Squat: 235x5x3
    Bench: 190x5x3
    Deadlift: 285x5
    Overhead Press: 110x5x3
    Power Clean: 104x5x3
    Rows: 153x5x3 (ended)

    Started out (11/31/09):

    Weight: 195

    Squat: 135x5x3
    Bench:125x5x3
    Deadlift: 155x5
    Overhead Press: 65x5x3
    Rows: 95x5x3
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by BananaHammocks View Post
    Why such short rest times? That just compromises the weight that he can use.
    Bodybuilding is not about how much weight you can lift, it's how much you look like you can lift. It's combining two different programs, Team Scivation 6 x 6 and Pro Serge Nubret's 6 x 10-12. They both rest 30 seconds MAX between sets. The pump is unbelievable and you're sore as ****! You will sweat your arss off.
    I had all the normal teenage fantasies..cars, girls, money, blow. Then my parents left for a week, and all my fantasies came true!
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  9. #9
    Registered User Rocky3540's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BananaHammocks View Post
    There's no reason to do decline if he does dips. It shortens the range of motion, anyway.
    You are correct. I miss spoke, I meant alt dips and decline not fly's...so sorry. I always do flys. Just mix cables with db.
    As i get older I am realizing i have to get while the gettings good. I can put stats and PR's up here all day long. But, the main concepts with my workouts....
    1. GO BIG OR GO HOME.
    2. FORM IS EVERYTHING
    3. BREATHE.
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  10. #10
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    Bodybuilding is not about how much weight you can lift, it's how much you look like you can lift. It's combining two different programs, Layne Norton's 6 x 6 and Pro Serge Nubret's 6 x 10-12. They both rest 30 seconds MAX between sets. The pump is unbelievable and you're sore as ****! You will sweat your arss off.
    Well, personally I want to BE strong, not look strong. But to each his own. I still believe that more weight = better gains. This guy will not gain for long if he always trains for a pump and just goes through 5 exercises with no intensity whatsoever.
    Tacos, fettucini, linguine, martini, bikini.

    Injury Haiku:

    Broke my arm squatting
    Sidelined until at least May
    Big stupid moron

    My progress:

    Weight: 207

    Squat: 235x5x3
    Bench: 190x5x3
    Deadlift: 285x5
    Overhead Press: 110x5x3
    Power Clean: 104x5x3
    Rows: 153x5x3 (ended)

    Started out (11/31/09):

    Weight: 195

    Squat: 135x5x3
    Bench:125x5x3
    Deadlift: 155x5
    Overhead Press: 65x5x3
    Rows: 95x5x3
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  11. #11
    Registered User dohste's Avatar
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    Yeah my rest times are normally in about 60sec, give or take 10sec...

    would there be any benefit to shorter rest times? cause I'd expect I would end up sacrificing weight for it, like BananaHamocks said

    Also do the cable cross-overs target something that I'd miss with the other 3 exercises plus maybe Dips / Butterfly machine?

    I gen try to avoid the cable exercises cause it can be a pain trying to get onto them - only one in the gym and generally someone's on it.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Rocky3540's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BananaHammocks View Post
    Well, personally I want to BE strong, not look strong. But to each his own. I still believe that more weight = better gains. This guy will not gain for long if he always trains for a pump and just goes through 5 exercises with no intensity whatsoever.
    I myself prefer heavier weights. I usually have a 3 or 4 minute rest between sets. I get plenty of pump and plenty of soreness. With that said, it is what the person wants that matters. OP you just need to make up your mind with what you want to do and what you feel does your body the best.
    As i get older I am realizing i have to get while the gettings good. I can put stats and PR's up here all day long. But, the main concepts with my workouts....
    1. GO BIG OR GO HOME.
    2. FORM IS EVERYTHING
    3. BREATHE.
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  13. #13
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dohste View Post
    1) Are flat presses really more effective for putting on more mass on the chest?
    Unfortunately, there isn't a definite answer to this question. An individual's particular body mechanics, as well as the form he uses during training, can completely alter the emphasis of an exercise compared to someone else.

    It's up to you to evaluate how a particular exercise affects you.



    2) Are there certain body types that react "badly" to too many flat presses (droppy looking pecs etc)?
    Not sure what your definition of 'body type' might be, but as in my above reply, an individual's body mechanics (bone length, joints, muscle insertions/origins, etc) and exactly how he performs the exercise (equipment, grip width, etc) will have a profound effect on results.


    Probably the better approach would be to emphasize Inclines, but to not completely neglect Flat Presses.
    Last edited by ironwill2008; 02-09-2010 at 08:31 AM.
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    Originally Posted by BananaHammocks View Post
    Well, personally I want to BE strong, not look strong. But to each his own. I still believe that more weight = better gains. This guy will not gain for long if he always trains for a pump and just goes through 5 exercises with no intensity whatsoever.
    Yeah, I guess Serge Nubret and Team Scivation didn't make good gains training with lower weight.

    I had all the normal teenage fantasies..cars, girls, money, blow. Then my parents left for a week, and all my fantasies came true!
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  15. #15
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dohste View Post
    Yeah my rest times are normally in about 60sec, give or take 10sec...

    would there be any benefit to shorter rest times? cause I'd expect I would end up sacrificing weight for it, like BananaHamocks said

    Also do the cable cross-overs target something that I'd miss with the other 3 exercises plus maybe Dips / Butterfly machine?

    I gen try to avoid the cable exercises cause it can be a pain trying to get onto them - only one in the gym and generally someone's on it.
    Well, I'm no scientist, but I do know that I've rested up to 8 minutes in between sets and my gains have been the same. It's easy to over-complicate things, but I think you should rest long enough to allow yourself to progress on all your lifts and not worry about whether you feel "pumped" or not.
    Tacos, fettucini, linguine, martini, bikini.

    Injury Haiku:

    Broke my arm squatting
    Sidelined until at least May
    Big stupid moron

    My progress:

    Weight: 207

    Squat: 235x5x3
    Bench: 190x5x3
    Deadlift: 285x5
    Overhead Press: 110x5x3
    Power Clean: 104x5x3
    Rows: 153x5x3 (ended)

    Started out (11/31/09):

    Weight: 195

    Squat: 135x5x3
    Bench:125x5x3
    Deadlift: 155x5
    Overhead Press: 65x5x3
    Rows: 95x5x3
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  16. #16
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    Yeah, I guess Serge Nubret and Team Scivation didn't make good gains training with lower weight.

    Yeah, anyone can post a picture. Don't see how it's relevant to the OP's situation.
    Tacos, fettucini, linguine, martini, bikini.

    Injury Haiku:

    Broke my arm squatting
    Sidelined until at least May
    Big stupid moron

    My progress:

    Weight: 207

    Squat: 235x5x3
    Bench: 190x5x3
    Deadlift: 285x5
    Overhead Press: 110x5x3
    Power Clean: 104x5x3
    Rows: 153x5x3 (ended)

    Started out (11/31/09):

    Weight: 195

    Squat: 135x5x3
    Bench:125x5x3
    Deadlift: 155x5
    Overhead Press: 65x5x3
    Rows: 95x5x3
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  17. #17
    Registered User Rocky3540's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BananaHammocks View Post
    Yeah, anyone can post a picture. Don't see how it's relevant to the OP's situation.
    Thinking there is a little more than just lower weight to that.
    As i get older I am realizing i have to get while the gettings good. I can put stats and PR's up here all day long. But, the main concepts with my workouts....
    1. GO BIG OR GO HOME.
    2. FORM IS EVERYTHING
    3. BREATHE.
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    Registered User BillabongVolcom's Avatar
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    To the OP, I think Flat Bench is way over rated. Flat Bench puts to much strain on your Shoulders.
    I had all the normal teenage fantasies..cars, girls, money, blow. Then my parents left for a week, and all my fantasies came true!
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    Registered User Miketoc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    To the OP, I think Flat Bench is way over rated. Flat Bench puts to much strain on your Shoulders.
    And somebody doesn't know how to bench.
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  20. #20
    Registered User BillabongVolcom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Miketoc View Post
    And somebody doesn't know how to bench.
    Yup, that's why most people who tear their Chest muscle is always doing Flat Benching.
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  21. #21
    Registered User BananaHammocks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    To the OP, I think Flat Bench is way over rated. Flat Bench puts to much strain on your Shoulders.
    Most people's form is crap. They never learn how to bench like a powerlifter, with the back arched and the elbows tucked in.
    Tacos, fettucini, linguine, martini, bikini.

    Injury Haiku:

    Broke my arm squatting
    Sidelined until at least May
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    My progress:

    Weight: 207

    Squat: 235x5x3
    Bench: 190x5x3
    Deadlift: 285x5
    Overhead Press: 110x5x3
    Power Clean: 104x5x3
    Rows: 153x5x3 (ended)

    Started out (11/31/09):

    Weight: 195

    Squat: 135x5x3
    Bench:125x5x3
    Deadlift: 155x5
    Overhead Press: 65x5x3
    Rows: 95x5x3
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  22. #22
    Registered User Hut*Hut's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    Yeah, I guess Serge Nubret and Team Scivation didn't make good gains training with lower weight.

    Serg could bench close to 500lb in his prime. Yeah, really nice example of the unimportance of getting strong in bodybuilding.....
    To guys starting out - please understand: when you can deadlift 450lb for 10 reps your back, hamstrings & traps will reflect THAT not which program you used to get there. When you can curl 150 for 10, your biceps will reflect THAT, not which program, rep range or method you used to get there. There is no voodoo independent of poundage progression, just faster and slower ways of getting to your next pit stop.
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  23. #23
    Keepin' It Real Superhuman7's Avatar
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    I personally start with incline most of the time. If you prioritize incline, it will minimize the droopy look that you are trying to avoid.

    That said, I wouldn't neglect flat and/or decline... or any movement for that matter. It's good to be proficient at everything, both for the sake of physical development as well as gaining experience and learning how your body responds to various stimuli.
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    Keepin' It Real Superhuman7's Avatar
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    Not sure what your definition of 'body type' might be, but as in my above reply, an individual's body mechanics (bone length, joints, muscle insertions/origins, etc) and exactly how he performs the exercise (equipment, grip width, etc) will have a profound effect on results.

    Probably the better approach would be to emphasize Inclines, but to not completely neglect Flat Presses.
    Absolutely correct. Great advice.
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    30 seconds MAX between sets.

    6 x 6 Incline BB
    6 x 6 Flat DB
    6 x 10-12 Incline Fly's
    6 x 10-12 Cable Crossovers
    That's dumb
    Cause back in School we are the leaders of ALL!!!
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by BillabongVolcom View Post
    To the OP, I think Flat Bench is way over rated. Flat Bench puts to much strain on your Shoulders.
    Only if you don't know how to bench.
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