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  1. #1
    Registered User musclephenom32's Avatar
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    Cool D aspartic acid (DAA) Test booster-the next big thing?

    Just read a 5 page article on DAA in the new Muscular development (March issue) saying this product was a great test booster yadda yadda. But at the end it says discountinue use at the first sign of Gyno?If its natural, why would it give you gyno?! And, are these products available yet? Is it a replacement for tribulus?
    Last edited by musclephenom32; 02-06-2010 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    Duh. This is why I hate the notion of "Natural" vs. "Non Natural" ... WTF does natural mean!? Is creatine natural? Is endogenous Test natural?

    Anyway, if DAA really does drastically boost testosterone, then your body's estrogen levels will also rise and your manboobs might become prone to Gyno. It doesn't matter what is doing the testosterone boosting, whether it's a PH/DS/AAS or a 'natural' booster.

  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by Itadienekes View Post
    Duh. This is why I hate the notion of "Natural" vs. "Non Natural" ... WTF does natural mean!? Is creatine natural? Is endogenous Test natural?

    Anyway, if DAA really does drastically boost testosterone, then your body's estrogen levels will also rise and your manboobs might become prone to Gyno. It doesn't matter what is doing the testosterone boosting, whether it's a PH/DS/AAS or a 'natural' booster.
    THISSSSSSSSSSSSS. With almost anything there is a positive and a negative. Think of it as if you jump you fall.

  4. #4
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    Already out by some Italian company, sold only in Europe.

  5. #5
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    I read the article as well, it might be the next big thing.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by musclephenom32 View Post
    Just read a 5 page article on DAA in the new Muscular development (March issue) saying this product was a great test booster yadda yadda. But at the end it says discountinue use at the first sign of Gyno?If its natural, why would it give you gyno?! And, are these products available yet? Is it a replacement for tribulus?
    Anything that alters your hormonal balance can cause gyno. Doesnt matter if its from a natural source, or not.
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  7. #7
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    I'm honestly concerned about any potential negative interactions with these supplements. DAA shouldn't be too much of a concern but the fact that companies are putting in active doses of NMDA into supplements is disconcerting.


    Even in small doses, studies have shown that NMDA can lead to migraine's and other related issues in those who are prone to them. I don't see the overall benefit of happily ingesting a neurotoxin just for some "gains, brah!"
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by sl4vik View Post
    Already out by some Italian company, sold only in Europe.
    Anabolic Xtreme is using it as well. Check out their forum, its some sort of "booster" to their new Mass FX and Hyperdrol.

  9. #9
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    cAMP acts as a secondary messenger that increases StAR expression. StAR is a carrier protein that helps bring cholesterol, the building block of testosterone, into the testosterone manufacturing power plant of the leydig cells. Thus, more cAMP is believed to lead to more testosterone production, as is seen in the human trials performed on D-Aspartic acid.

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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    I'm honestly concerned about any potential negative interactions with these supplements. DAA shouldn't be too much of a concern but the fact that companies are putting in active doses of NMDA into supplements is disconcerting.


    Even in small doses, studies have shown that NMDA can lead to migraine's and other related issues in those who are prone to them. I don't see the overall benefit of happily ingesting a neurotoxin just for some "gains, brah!"
    Yeah i'm not sure i'd be willing to mess around with NMDA.
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  11. #11
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    Saw the same article, and the human study posted really gives this ingredient some potential. Upregulating HPTA, increasing endogenous test, good stuff.
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  12. #12
    next level bro chasinSKURT's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by Itadienekes View Post
    Anyway, if DAA really does drastically boost testosterone, then your body's estrogen levels will also rise and your manboobs might become prone to Gyno. It doesn't matter what is doing the testosterone boosting, whether it's a PH/DS/AAS or a 'natural' booster.
    Increases in natural T levels will antagonize estrogens. It's virtually impossible to experience any symptoms of gynecomastia from natty T boosters

    PH/DS's don't boost testosterone either.

  13. #13
    Registered User Itadienekes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chasinSKURT View Post
    Increases in natural T levels will antagonize estrogens. It's virtually impossible to experience any symptoms of gynecomastia from natty T boosters

    PH/DS's don't boost testosterone either.
    No, PH/DS's won't. But what about pure injectable Testosterone? Increase in natural T levels from a booster should have the same effect as XXmg/week of Testosterone injections, and I sure as hell know that any Test injection increases aromatization and therefore estrogen levels, therefore increasing risk of gyno. Do I have something completely wrong?

  14. #14
    next level bro chasinSKURT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Itadienekes View Post
    No, PH/DS's won't. But what about pure injectable Testosterone? Increase in natural T levels from a booster should have the same effect as XXmg/week of Testosterone injections, and I sure as hell know that any Test injection increases aromatization and therefore estrogen levels, therefore increasing risk of gyno. Do I have something completely wrong?
    testosterone depots and natty test boosters really cannot even be compared.

  15. #15
    Registered User Itadienekes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chasinSKURT View Post
    testosterone depots and natty test boosters really cannot even be compared.
    Again, AGREED. I'm even of the strong opinion that natty test booster really don't do anything but placebo. In any case, isn't the mechanism the same? Increase in testosterone leads to increased aromatization leads to increased estrogen leads to increased risk of gyno. Independently of where the testosterone is coming from or how big the increase in test is...

    Just trying to understand, don't wanna be an ass.

  16. #16
    next level bro chasinSKURT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Itadienekes View Post
    Again, AGREED. I'm even of the strong opinion that natty test booster really don't do anything but placebo. In any case, isn't the mechanism the same? Increase in testosterone leads to increased aromatization leads to increased estrogen leads to increased risk of gyno. Independently of where the testosterone is coming from or how big the increase in test is...

    Just trying to understand, don't wanna be an ass.
    The increase in test from a natty test booster isn't gonna cause gyno, our bawlz just can't produce THAT much. Where as injectables aren't dependent on natural production, so your T levels are unlimited.

  17. #17
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by chasinSKURT View Post
    The increase in test from a natty test booster isn't gonna cause gyno, our bawlz just can't produce THAT much. .


    speak for yourself!

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    Yeah i'm not sure i'd be willing to mess around with NMDA.
    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    I'm honestly concerned about any potential negative interactions with these supplements. DAA shouldn't be too much of a concern but the fact that companies are putting in active doses of NMDA into supplements is disconcerting.


    Even in small doses, studies have shown that NMDA can lead to migraine's and other related issues in those who are prone to them. I don't see the overall benefit of happily ingesting a neurotoxin just for some "gains, brah!"
    Hi there... hope this clears up some confusion....

    N-Methyl-D-Aspartate is 100X's as potent as D-Aspartic Acid in stimulating hGH and Testosterone increases and is actually "ultimately responsible" for the hormone increase with D-Asp ingestion. D-Asp breaks down into n-Methyl-D-Aspartate via methyl transferace reaction called NMDA Synthetase. N-Methyl-D-Aspartate then stimulates the Hypothalamus-Pituitary and testis to produce hormones. So, if you take D-Aspartic Acid, it is the N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid, which gets there through conversion, that actually does the work.

    Like anything, dosing is an important consideration. You can drink too much caffeine, take too many vitamins, actually drink too much water and it would be toxic...

    Our company has performed the research and studies... the base ingredient in the formula is D-Aspartic acid with very small amounts of N-Methyl-D-Aspartate, which is proprietary... Dose only has to be VERY SMALL to elicit a HUGE synergistic effect with the D-Asp.

    Some studies show 1000%+ increase in hGH in some mammals in only 1-2 hrs with only very small dose of N-Methyl-D-Aspartate. LH and Testosterone increases are also very impressive, without side effects. These studies where wtih dosages in the 2.5mg/kg ... Ours is much, much lower... in the miligram to microgram range per serving, not per kilogram... but yet still highly effective.

    Here is a link that explains a lot of the answers to your potential questions here, Plus elaborates on this science in much greater depth. Plus, like 30 abstracts for substantiation.

    On the link, there's a research paper and two pilot studies. Check em out.

    musclewarfare (dot) com /rnd

    I haven't posted enough times here to put an actual link... but the page and articles for reference are on the Muscle Warfare Website, in the R&D section.

    Thanks

    MWarfare

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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by MWarfare View Post
    Hi there... hope this clears up some confusion....

    N-Methyl-D-Aspartate is 100X's as potent as D-Aspartic Acid in stimulating hGH and Testosterone increases and is actually "ultimately responsible" for the hormone increase with D-Asp ingestion. D-Asp breaks down into n-Methyl-D-Aspartate via methyl transferace reaction called NMDA Synthetase. N-Methyl-D-Aspartate then stimulates the Hypothalamus-Pituitary and testis to produce hormones. So, if you take D-Aspartic Acid, it is the N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid, which gets there through conversion, that actually does the work.

    Like anything, dosing is an important consideration. You can drink too much caffeine, take too many vitamins, actually drink too much water and it would be toxic...

    Our company has performed the research and studies... the base ingredient in the formula is D-Aspartic acid with very small amounts of N-Methyl-D-Aspartate, which is proprietary... Dose only has to be VERY SMALL to elicit a HUGE synergistic effect with the D-Asp.



    Please cite the studies and the research that your company has performed?



    Edit-N/M..........if this is what passes for real studies with you guys, I think I know all I need to.

    http://musclewarfare.com/rnd_s002.html
    http://musclewarfare.com/rnd_s001.html




    Some studies show 1000%+ increase in hGH in some mammals in only 1-2 hrs with only very small dose of N-Methyl-D-Aspartate. LH and Testosterone increases are also very impressive, without side effects. These studies where wtih dosages in the 2.5mg/kg ... Ours is much, much lower... in the miligram to microgram range per serving, not per kilogram... but yet still highly effective.



    Yet there are no long-term studies of NMDA safety, not to mention that high NMDA intake has been linked with Alzheimer's and other such conditions. Too much of anything is never a good thing but when you have something that is a neurotoxin in the first place, why bother risking it?
    Last edited by ElMariachi; 02-08-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Not to sound like I am scolding you ... because I'm not... but...

    Why take vitamins at all if when you take too much it will be toxic?

    Why drink water if when you drink too much it will be toxic?

    Just like the prior two exapmles I just gave you... N-methyl-D-Aspartate "IS PRESENT IN YOUR BODY RIGHT NOW".... So calling it a neurotoxin is innaccurate... in high doses... similar to the amino acid Glutamate, it is considered excitotoxic... but, this typically occurs when they diasect Rats brains and administer it directly to brain tissue to test disruption of the ION channel in the liked name receptor. I'm sure that adding some vitamins and even pure water to the brains of mice in the same manner would be determined dangerous to brain and spinal nerves no? So, the correlation is not accurate.

    Also... because your brain contains N-Methyl-D-Aspartate in it RIGHT NOW.... I wouldnt consider your brain toxic right?

    So just to clarify, supplementing the correct dose fo D-Asparitic Acid and N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid can help promote a mild stimulation of this receptor to produce hormone spikes. The levels of these aminos typically rise with puberty and other times of hormonal change and body development anyway. So, the right amoiunt of supplementation is a natural process. Additionally, ALL of our beta testers loved the product with NO SIDE EFFECTS. Furthermore... the two pilot studies we point to above clearly show the dosing is much lower than one might think. Additionally, it was still highly effective.

    As far as siting the studies... I told you I have not posted here enough to list links in my posts... so please decipher the web url below for reference...

    So, here is the other article on that page, which you failed to list that clearly talks about effective dosing and toxicity research and other points you make here....

    There are over 30 published studies connected to this article... please read the entire report...

    www (dot) musclewarfare (dot) com / rnd_nmda (dot) html


    Originally Posted by ElMariachi View Post
    Please cite the studies and the research that your company has performed?



    Edit-N/M..........if this is what passes for real studies with you guys, I think I know all I need to.

    [









    Yet there are no long-term studies of NMDA safety, not to mention that high NMDA intake has been linked with Alzheimer's and other such conditions. Too much of anything is never a good thing but when you have something that is a neurotoxin in the first place, why bother risking it?

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    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement

  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement
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    Originally Posted by MWarfare View Post
    Not to sound like I am scolding you ... because I'm not... but...

    Why take vitamins at all if when you take too much it will be toxic?

    Why drink water if when you drink too much it will be toxic?

    Just like the prior two exapmles I just gave you... N-methyl-D-Aspartate "IS PRESENT IN YOUR BODY RIGHT NOW".... So calling it a neurotoxin is innaccurate... in high doses... similar to the amino acid Glutamate, it is considered excitotoxic... but, this typically occurs when they diasect Rats brains and administer it directly to brain tissue to test disruption of the ION channel in the liked name receptor.
    what you say is correct, but it lacks some necessary information in order to be useful:

    1. by how much are regional extracellular brain levels of NMDA increased after a single dose of x mg of d-aspartic acid?

    2. by how much is neuronal calcium influx increased after x mg of oral d-aspartic acid?

    3. by how much is neuronal calcium influx increased after x mg of oral d-aspartic acid under conditions of fluctuating brain blood circulation (such as during training)?

    4. levels of neuronal ROS markers after x mg of d-aspartic acid?

    5. levels of apoptosis markers after x mg of d-aspartic acid?


    I am sure that you agree that answers to these questions are of relevance when discussing the potential safety of oral exogenous administration of d-aspartic acid (let alone oral NMDA).
    ThermoLife scientific consultant

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    Yeah i'm not sure i'd be willing to mess around with NMDA.
    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement
    Arent their studies showing its effects on testosterone in rodents and monkey's going back to the early 90's?
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    Cool

    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement
    Wow, you're on top of your game!
    .
    Last edited by musclephenom32; 02-09-2010 at 12:41 PM.

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    Wink

    Anabolic xtreme is coming out with a new product pro series power packs with DAA in it, looks very promising.
    It's on their forums tstpowercell/along with mssfx the destroyer, a mass fx powerpack. Looking forward to trying it since I got good results from the original mass fx. I hope bb is going to carry it/ they said its already shipping to retailers. I'm picking up a couple boxes (:}
    Last edited by musclephenom32; 02-09-2010 at 12:48 PM.

  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have a US patent application for the use of d-aspartic acid to increase testosterone in humans. NMDA is included in there too. This application has been pending well before any of the latest research and well before the italian formula was out. Any companies should be aware of this, and the potential financial penalties for patent infringement
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    Originally Posted by musclephenom32 View Post
    Just read a 5 page article on DAA in the new Muscular development (March issue) saying this product was a great test booster yadda yadda. But at the end it says discountinue use at the first sign of Gyno?If its natural, why would it give you gyno?! And, are these products available yet? Is it a replacement for tribulus?
    It also increases prolactin significantly....

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