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  1. #1
    Keep going The_Reaper's Avatar
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    Arrow "Fluff", nonfunctional show muscles vs hard, dense muscles

    Discuss:

    A popular routine is the 5x5 method. Popularized by programs like StrongLifts and Starting Strength, doing compound lifts for five sets of five reps allows you to strike a balance between strength building and superficial muscle hypertrophy. Done this way, your hypertrophy won?t be purely sarcoplasmic, which results in fluid-filled muscles that look big but don?t see a corresponding increase in actual strength. Instead, the 5x5 method promotes myofibrillar hypertrophy: hard, dense muscle fibers that increase strength and size (with no puffiness). That?s real muscle.

    Sarcoplasmic, eh?
    Last edited by The_Reaper; 02-04-2010 at 06:18 PM.
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  2. #2
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    does muscle that's a higher percentage glycogen etc look puffier? I don't know if that's true, I mean at the end of the day it's a hard lump under your skin how the phuck can you tell what the composition of said lump is just by looking at it portruding through your skin?
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    Originally Posted by GodsAngina View Post
    does muscle that's a higher percentage glycogen etc look puffier? I don't know if that's true, I mean at the end of the day it's a hard lump under your skin how the phuck can you tell what the composition of said lump is just by looking at it portruding through your skin?
    honestly, powerlifters typically look denser than bodybuilders. It's pretty noticeable imo
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    Registered User invain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GodsAngina View Post
    does muscle that's a higher percentage glycogen etc look puffier? I don't know if that's true, I mean at the end of the day it's a hard lump under your skin how the phuck can you tell what the composition of said lump is just by looking at it portruding through your skin?
    It looks fuller, I dunno about "puffy". Honestly I've never heard the term puffy used to describe muscle. OP you talking about smoothness?
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  5. #5
    Swole Member Muddschell's Avatar
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    Lose body fat = Lose "puffy"

    /thread
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    i agree with this statement

    I also feel like the muscle you build on a 5x5 w/ compounds stays with you on a cut

    just opinion backed with experience and a phd in broscience
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    Asian Sensation Billster's Avatar
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    it's coz the size of the actin and myosin filaments are increased,

    number of myofibrils increase, therefore sarcomere numbers increase, therefore size and number of myosin and actin filaments increase

    therefore more dense
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    Originally Posted by The_Reaper View Post
    Discuss:

    A popular routine is the 5x5 method. Popularized by programs like StrongLifts and Starting Strength, doing compound lifts for five sets of five reps allows you to strike a balance between strength building and superficial muscle hypertrophy. Done this way, your hypertrophy won?t be purely sarcoplasmic, which results in fluid-filled muscles that look big but don?t see a corresponding increase in actual strength. Instead, the 5x5 method promotes myofibrillar hypertrophy: hard, dense muscle fibers that increase strength and size (with no puffiness). That?s real muscle.

    Sarcoplasmic, eh?
    yes
    i like that feeling better than what BB workouts give you.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Muddschell View Post
    Lose body fat = Lose "puffy"

    /thread
    stats:
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  10. #10
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    sounds like brofessor talk to me
    Excuse me, your seatbelt seems to be broken. What do you recommend I do?
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    Originally Posted by Billster View Post
    it's coz the size of the actin and myosin filaments are increased,

    number of myofibrils increase, therefore sarcomere numbers increase, therefore size and number of myosin and actin filaments increase

    therefore more dense
    yeah but if I got a soccer ball and put it under a sheet and a bowling ball the same size and put it under a sheet do you think you would be able to pick out which is more dense from that perspective? Because that's basically what you are seeing with muscles.
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  12. #12
    Asian Sensation Billster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GodsAngina View Post
    yeah but if I got a soccer ball and put it under a sheet and a bowling ball the same size and put it under a sheet do you think you would be able to pick out which is more dense from that perspective? Because that's basically what you are seeing with muscles.
    i'm guessing the increased size of filaments makes it more dense and is more visible as a bunch
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Muddschell View Post
    Lose body fat = Lose "puffy"

    /thread
    this
    I give reps away, like it's the holidays ;)

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  14. #14
    hate us cause they ain-us Angra_Mainyu's Avatar
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    its because sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is mostly temporary collections of nutrients and water. Thats why you people who always do high reps loose so much mass when you stop working out or dont eat enough. (if you ever gained a lot in the first place)
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  16. #16
    Keep going The_Reaper's Avatar
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    I edited "puffy", for something else less vague.

    Originally Posted by GoodShoot View Post
    i agree with this statement

    I also feel like the muscle you build on a 5x5 w/ compounds stays with you on a cut
    Broscience or not, it's plausable.

    Originally Posted by Billster View Post
    it's coz the size of the actin and myosin filaments are increased,

    number of myofibrils increase, therefore sarcomere numbers increase, therefore size and number of myosin and actin filaments increase

    therefore more dense
    whoa, whoa! all da big wurdz!
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  17. #17
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    Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy

    Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in the volume of the non-contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm. This fluid accounts for 25-30% of the muscle’s size. Although the cross sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibers per unit area decreases, and there is no increase in muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is mainly a result of high rep, “bodybuilder-type” training (3).

    One of the biggest problems I see with the training of power athletes (football players, baseball players, basketball players, wrestlers and even powerlifters) is too much emphasis on training in the 10 – 15 rep range. This type of training has its place, yet should not be the focal point for these athletes. For example, most football lineman benefit from added bulk to prevent from getting pushed around on the field. “Bodybuilding” methods, using these rep ranges, can be beneficial if incorporated during the season to prevent muscle mass loss, as well as after the season to add bulk, which may have been lost during the season. Also, there is some scientific evidence that states a bigger muscle may have a better chance of becoming a stronger muscle once maximal strength training methods are employed. The key to remember is that this type of hypertrophy has little to do with such explosive movements as hitting, running, throwing, jumping or performing a one-rep max. This is why professional bodybuilders, whose training mainly hypertrophies the Type IIA fibers and causes an increase in the non-contractile components of the muscle (sarcoplasmic volume, capillary density, and mitochondria proliferation) are not the fastest or even the strongest of all athletes. This is despite the fact that they generally have more muscle than any other class of athlete! I consider this type of hypertrophy to be form over function.
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  18. #18
    Manlet Spokesman Buzz_Lightyear's Avatar
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    So much bro/tardscience ITT it is ridiculous.
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  19. #19
    Keep going The_Reaper's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by K2B View Post
    hmmm, interesting
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    hate us cause they ain-us Angra_Mainyu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Buzz_Lightyear View Post
    So much bro/tardscience ITT it is ridiculous.
    myofibrillar hypertrophy still occurs at higher reps (just not as much), especially if the muscles are very slow twitch dominant. I thought sarcoplasmic / myofibrillar hypertrophy was common knowledge for weightlifters
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    Keep going The_Reaper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Buzz_Lightyear View Post
    So much bro/tardscience ITT it is ridiculous.
    Well, cuzzzz, I made the thread to get at the truth.

    So hit me with it. I can handle it.
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    Originally Posted by The_Reaper View Post
    Well, cuzzzz, I made the thread to get at the truth.

    So hit me with it. I can handle it.
    ...what's the question?

    Originally Posted by K2B View Post
    Peep that.
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by K2B View Post
    Originally Posted by The_Reaper View Post
    hmmm, interesting
    Yeah, I saw it on the misc awhile back and saved it.
    After looking at it I've been inspired to train both very low reps and very high reps, so far it's been good.
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  24. #24
    hate us cause they ain-us Angra_Mainyu's Avatar
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    moral of the thread:
    do 1-3 reps and 5-8 reps, get strong and big
    when you want to get even bigger add in some high reps for temporary size increase
    <===]-༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ I am the knight of spamerino. Stand back foul nazi-moderino. Plz no bannerino cappucicno <===]-༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

    *Never skips Calf Genetics Day crew* ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
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  25. #25
    Keep going The_Reaper's Avatar
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    I rarely do low reps - but that's gonna change, starting tomorrow. Booyah!
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  26. #26
    (((())))-------(((()))) Alex B.'s Avatar
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    I've never seen a "weak" bodybuilder...

    Everyones muscles look hard when they have low bf
    "Gazing up into the darkness I saw myself as a creature driven and derided by vanity; and my eyes burned with anguish and anger."

    -James Joyce.

    I REP BACK !!!
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  27. #27
    Banned GodsAngina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The_Reaper View Post
    hmmm, interesting
    from starting strength and practical programming
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  28. #28
    In Trance We Trust Shangius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Angra_Mainyu View Post
    moral of the thread:
    do 1-3 reps and 5-8 reps, get strong and big
    when you want to get even bigger add in some high reps for temporary size increase
    This is what my strength coach in high school taught me.

    Do a program of 3x5 for 6 weeks, then 5x3 for 6 weeks, then 3x8 for six weeks for all major compound lifts.
    Strive for
    The body of a God
    The mind of a Scholar
    The humility of a Monk
    And the heart of a Warrior

    NoFap/Meditation/GreenTea/Yoga crew
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  29. #29
    born to roam WhAtNoWbChSs's Avatar
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    sounds like BS. 5x5 rooutine sucks, especially for a noob. he'll just use **** too heavy for him and hurt himself.
    You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told you're a god or a total bastard. The iron always kicks you the real deal. It's the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. I have found it to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But 200 pounds is always 200 pounds.
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  30. #30
    THE HEAVY IRON SQUAD,CUZZ ygbodybuilder10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alex B. View Post

    Everyones muscles look hard when they have low bf
    thats a damm lie
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