mixing creatine

[Messi123]

what do you mix your creatine with??

[SeanP35]

Anything.

Juice would be the best to drink it with, though, as it is better absorbed with a carbohydrate.

I myself drink it with juice when I have it, and water when I don't.

[Messi123]

Anything.

Juice would be the best to drink it with, though, as it is better absorbed with a carbohydrate.

I myself drink it with juice when I have it, and water when I don't.

thanks man i'm gonna try taking it with apple juice

[SeanP35]

thanks man i'm gonna try taking it with apple juice

Go for it, it seems to make the juice sweeter somehow, so it typically tastes really good to take.

[msuwo]

Anything.

Juice would be the best to drink it with, though, as it is better absorbed with a carbohydrate.

I myself drink it with juice when I have it, and water when I don't.

Protein and salt are better at improving creatine absorption than carbohydrates. I read a pubmed article before about it but don't have the link on hand. Not that carbohydrates don't work too, just not as effectively. Best yet, if you can mix some whey/dextrose with your creatine to get the best of both worlds. Or find a fruit flavoured whey you can mix in juice.

[the1satanfears]

Protein and salt are better at improving creatine absorption than carbohydrates. I read a pubmed article before about it but don't have the link on hand. Not that carbohydrates don't work too, just not as effectively. Best yet, if you can mix some whey/dextrose with your creatine to get the best of both worlds. Or find a fruit flavoured whey you can mix in juice.

You should find that link. Everything I have read talks about high-GI carbohydrates being best for creatine absorption.

[zjpj]

I mix with apple juice or grapefruit juice.

[Nsg_Bb]

I throw a shot in my mouth take a drink of water and shake my head...

Then chug another 16 oz of water on top of it.

[YesToWeed]

I mix creatine mono with a protein shake and milk.

[msuwo]

You should find that link. Everything I have read talks about high-GI carbohydrates being best for creatine absorption.

I'll try and find it later tonight. I'm on campus for a while still.

[seepeps]

pre-workout i mix creatine, beta alanine, glutamine, and jack3d with water.

post-workout i mix creatine,beta alanine, glutamine, and protein with milk

[snorkelman]

For the bros recommending taking creatine with juice, please realize that once saturated taking creatine with juice is not likely to make a damn bit of difference in maintaining.

And just to make something very clear, you do not ever need sugars (including the sugars in juice) for creatine uptake, since the creatine transporter is a sodium-chloride dependent transporter, not insulin dependent. Just dump the creatine powder into your shake (even if it is water-based) and you are fine.

[FearNoWeight]

On off days I take it with juice or just even water.

Post workout I take it with around 5 teaspoons of dextrose and 1.5scoops of whey.

[FearNoWeight]

For the bros recommending taking creatine with juice, please realize that once saturated taking creatine with juice is not likely to make a damn bit of difference in maintaining.

And just to make something very clear, you do not ever need sugars (including the sugars in juice) for creatine uptake, since the creatine transporter is a sodium-chloride dependent transporter, not insulin dependent. Just dump the creatine powder into your shake (even if it is water-based) and you are fine.

You can listen to this post if you want, or you can take it with dextrose or juice just in case you want to be sure you're absorbing the stuff.

In the end though, just make sure you're taking the stuff to be fully saturated.

[CJ_Guns]

I drink mine in warm water. Am I going to die?

[OnMyWhey]

Grape juice.

[TarenRay]

i just dump scoops in my mouth and swallow, im not a pussy like you water and juice mixers!


NOT SR'S ----

[msuwo]

For the bros recommending taking creatine with juice, please realize that once saturated taking creatine with juice is not likely to make a damn bit of difference in maintaining.

The creatine transporter is a sodium-chloride dependent transporter

^This. Like I was saying, salt levels help increase the creatine transporter activity.

And just to make something very clear, you do not ever need sugars (including the sugars in juice) for creatine uptake

^But not this. True you don't NEED it, but glucose helps with uptake. It isn't a null-effect

Carbohydrate ingestion augments skeletal muscle creatine accumulation during creatine supplementation in humans.
Green AL, Hultman E, Macdonald IA, Sewell DA, Greenhaff PL.

This study investigated the effect of carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on skeletal muscle creatine (Cr) accumulation during Cr supplementation in humans. Muscle biopsy, urine, and plasma samples were obtained from 24 males before and after ingesting 5 g Cr in solution (group A) or 5 g Cr followed, 30 min later, by 93 g simple CHO in solution (group B) four times each day for 5 days. Supplementation resulted in an increase in muscle phosphocreatine (PCr), Cr, and total creatine (TCr; sum of PCr and Cr) concentration in groups A and B, but the increase in TCr in group B was 60% greater than in group A (P < 0.01). There was also a corresponding decrease in urinary Cr excretion in group B (P < 0.001). [b]Creatine supplementation had no effect on serum insulin concentration, but Cr and CHO ingestion dramatically elevated insulin concentration (P < 0.001). These findings demonstrate that CHO ingestion substantially augments muscle Cr accumulation during Cr feeding in humans, which appears to be insulin mediated.

((I also found this article which shows that ALA (Omega-3 found in flax) with CHO can increase creatine uptake))
Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phos****en concentration.
Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG.

((Anyhow, originally I set out to find an article showing protein lead to better uptake than creatine. I think I remembered it wrong; this is probably the article I read))
Protein and carbohydrate-induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans.
Steenge GR, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

This study investigated the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with protein and/or carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on plasma creatine and serum insulin concentrations and whole body creatine retention. Twelve men consumed 4 x 5 g of creatine on four occasions in combination with 1) 5 g of CHO, 2) 50 g of protein and 47 g of CHO, 3) 96 g of CHO, or 4) 50 g of CHO. The increase in serum insulin was no different when the protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments were compared, but both were greater than the response recorded for the low-CHO treatment (both P < 0.05). As a consequence, body creatine retention was augmented by approximately 25% for protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments compared with placebo treatment. The areas under creatine- and insulin-time curves were related during the first oral challenge (r = -0.920, P < 0.05) but not after the fourth (r = -0.342). It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with approximately 50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.

Steenge GR, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

^^So, throwing creatine into your whey shake with dextrose (and maybe a pinch of salt!) is your best bet

[zepplin92]

^This. Like I was saying, salt levels help increase the creatine transporter activity.



^But not this

Carbohydrate ingestion augments skeletal muscle creatine accumulation during creatine supplementation in humans.
Green AL, Hultman E, Macdonald IA, Sewell DA, Greenhaff PL.

This study investigated the effect of carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on skeletal muscle creatine (Cr) accumulation during Cr supplementation in humans. Muscle biopsy, urine, and plasma samples were obtained from 24 males before and after ingesting 5 g Cr in solution (group A) or 5 g Cr followed, 30 min later, by 93 g simple CHO in solution (group B) four times each day for 5 days. Supplementation resulted in an increase in muscle phosphocreatine (PCr), Cr, and total creatine (TCr; sum of PCr and Cr) concentration in groups A and B, but the increase in TCr in group B was 60% greater than in group A (P < 0.01). There was also a corresponding decrease in urinary Cr excretion in group B (P < 0.001). [b]Creatine supplementation had no effect on serum insulin concentration, but Cr and CHO ingestion dramatically elevated insulin concentration (P < 0.001). These findings demonstrate that CHO ingestion substantially augments muscle Cr accumulation during Cr feeding in humans, which appears to be insulin mediated.

((I also found this article which shows that ALA (Omega-3 found in flax) with CHO can increase creatine uptake))
Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phos****en concentration.
Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG.

((Anyhow, originally I set out to find an article showing protein lead to better uptake than creatine. I think I remembered it wrong; this is probably the article I read))
Protein and carbohydrate-induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans.
Steenge GR, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

This study investigated the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with protein and/or carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on plasma creatine and serum insulin concentrations and whole body creatine retention. Twelve men consumed 4 x 5 g of creatine on four occasions in combination with 1) 5 g of CHO, 2) 50 g of protein and 47 g of CHO, 3) 96 g of CHO, or 4) 50 g of CHO. The increase in serum insulin was no different when the protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments were compared, but both were greater than the response recorded for the low-CHO treatment (both P < 0.05). As a consequence, body creatine retention was augmented by approximately 25% for protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments compared with placebo treatment. The areas under creatine- and insulin-time curves were related during the first oral challenge (r = -0.920, P < 0.05) but not after the fourth (r = -0.342). It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with approximately 50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.

Steenge GR, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

^^So, throwing creatine into your whey shake with dextrose (and maybe a pinch of salt!) is your best bet

Good read.



I Mix with 1 1/2 scoop of amplified wheybolic extreme 60 protein and 8oz water.

Saturdays and Sundays its mixed with 8oz orange juice.

[snorkelman]

^But not this. True you don't NEED it, but glucose helps with uptake. It isn't a null-effect

That study you referenced was specifically looking at a loading phase, not after saturation is achieved. Sure, a supraphysiological level of insulin will stimulate the Na-K ATPase pump activity. It will also increase the accumulation of creatine but when does that happen? During loading. It is not going to matter after the muscle is saturated. And we are talking about insulin, so that means that your choice of and amount of carb will be the factors relative to the insulin response. Just so we are clear - a little sugar isn't enough. The study involved 93 grams of simple carbs. Many people cannot afford that type of caloric intake in their diet. Some can, and for them, during a loading period, it could be useful, but not needed to come from sugar.

[msuwo]

That study you referenced was specifically looking at a loading phase, not after saturation is achieved. Sure, a supraphysiological level of insulin will stimulate the Na-K ATPase pump activity. It will also increase the accumulation of creatine but when does that happen? During loading. It is not going to matter after the muscle is saturated. And we are talking about insulin, so that means that your choice of and amount of carb will be the factors relative to the insulin response. Just so we are clear - a little sugar isn't enough. The study involved 93 grams of simple carbs. Many people cannot afford that type of caloric intake in their diet. Some can, and for them, during a loading period, it could be useful, but not needed to come from sugar.

Yeah, after loading it really doesn't make a difference since you only need to replace about 2g. And true, the biggest caveat of the first study is that 100g of sugar with your creatine (4x a day if you're loading, that's 400g!) is just not realistic. And so the other study suggesting a protein/creatine mix is easier and just as effective. 2 Tbsp dextrose is 30g which is about what I use in my shakes.. Though unnecessary after I'm done loading, it makes my crappy ass GNC whey taste at least palatable =P

[SeanP35]

For the bros recommending taking creatine with juice, please realize that once saturated taking creatine with juice is not likely to make a damn bit of difference in maintaining.

And just to make something very clear, you do not ever need sugars (including the sugars in juice) for creatine uptake, since the creatine transporter is a sodium-chloride dependent transporter, not insulin dependent. Just dump the creatine powder into your shake (even if it is water-based) and you are fine.

That study you referenced was specifically looking at a loading phase, not after saturation is achieved. Sure, a supraphysiological level of insulin will stimulate the Na-K ATPase pump activity. It will also increase the accumulation of creatine but when does that happen? During loading. It is not going to matter after the muscle is saturated. And we are talking about insulin, so that means that your choice of and amount of carb will be the factors relative to the insulin response. Just so we are clear - a little sugar isn't enough. The study involved 93 grams of simple carbs. Many people cannot afford that type of caloric intake in their diet. Some can, and for them, during a loading period, it could be useful, but not needed to come from sugar.

So you're basically telling me that creatine is always absorbed the same after the loading phase. That is not true in the slightest, and the absorption of creatine has been studied and proven to be better when taken with a carbohydrate source, especially when glycogen stores are low.

Once in the blood, Cr is transported into tissues against a concentration gradient through a sodium and chloride-dependent transporter (CreaT).

Catecholamines (hormones/neurotransmitters), insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), insulin, and exercise can influence the net uptake of Cr into skeletal muscle.

Now the above basically states that both are true, to an extent.

Carbohydrates will always aid in absorption of creatine, period. There is no arguing that, and it is not true in the slightest that carbohydrates don't aid in absorption, regardless of it being during a loading phase or not.

The issue with the sodium and chloride statement is that adding it to your drink is not going to affect absorption. When creatine gets into your body, sodium and chloride are going to be used anyways just to get it through that transporter. If you add a little to your drink, your body is going to use it elsewhere, and it will not be needed for the creatine absorption.

[snorkelman]

Why are you concerned about aiding creatine's absorption? Are you fasting? Are you actually worried that your body is not absorbing the 2-5 grams that it needs in order to maintain saturation?

[SeanP35]

Why are you concerned about aiding creatine's absorption? Are you fasting? Are you actually worried that your body is not absorbing the 2-5 grams that it needs in order to maintain saturation?

Then why did you bring it up?

You tried to disprove a study that has been repeated on many occasions and were wrong, so I assume now you will try to argue your point, or say there was no reason to bring it up - like above.

[FearNoWeight]

^^So, throwing creatine into your whey shake with dextrose (and maybe a pinch of salt!) is your best bet

This is what I recommended but you want to have around a 2:1 ratio of dextrose to creatine with your preworkout shake.

[johnisawesome]

just toss mine into my PWO shake
edit: to avoid starting a new thread, does anyone know how longs it takes for your body to lose the creatine saturation?

[snorkelman]

Then why did you bring it up?

You tried to disprove a study that has been repeated on many occasions and were wrong, so I assume now you will try to argue your point, or say there was no reason to bring it up - like above.

Please don't create a strawman argument with me. I said you don't need sugar for creatine uptake. I explained why. Either prove that wrong, or shut it. Look back at my comments about insulin and carbs because I never said that carbs are useless as you seem to be want to argue against. The insulin-augmented creatine accumulation is only even relevant during a loading period anyway. As for saturation, if you have any study showing that some amount of sugar is going to force more through CreaT1, please show me.

[in10city]

So you're basically telling me that creatine is always absorbed the same after the loading phase. That is not true in the slightest, and the absorption of creatine has been studied and proven to be better when taken with a carbohydrate source, especially when glycogen stores are low.





Now the above basically states that both are true, to an extent.

Carbohydrates will always aid in absorption of creatine, period. There is no arguing that, and it is not true in the slightest that carbohydrates don't aid in absorption, regardless of it being during a loading phase or not.

The issue with the sodium and chloride statement is that adding it to your drink is not going to affect absorption. When creatine gets into your body, sodium and chloride are going to be used anyways just to get it through that transporter. If you add a little to your drink, your body is going to use it elsewhere, and it will not be needed for the creatine absorption.

Anyone arguing that sugars are needed or have any benefit for creatine uptake once the muscle levels have topped out / saturated is incorrect.

This has been demonstrated NUMEROUS times in the literature including those done by Greenhaff and Preen which have EXPLICITLY excluded carbohydrate ingestion in maintenance protocols and have maintained muscle creatine levels.

[SeanP35]

Anyone arguing that sugars are needed or have any benefit for creatine uptake once the muscle levels have topped out / saturated is incorrect.

This has been demonstrated NUMEROUS times in the literature including those done by Greenhaff and Preen which have EXPLICITLY excluded carbohydrate ingestion in maintenance protocols and have maintained muscle creatine levels.

The opposite has been demonstrated and proven numerous times, as well.

EDIT: I also never said that it is absolutely necessary. I said it will aid in absorption, which it will. The amount of creatine your body can uptake at the time is a factor that is excluded, as it is not part of this.

[msuwo]

Anyone arguing that sugars are needed or have any benefit for creatine uptake once the muscle levels have topped out / saturated is incorrect.

This has been demonstrated NUMEROUS times in the literature including those done by Greenhaff and Preen which have EXPLICITLY excluded carbohydrate ingestion in maintenance protocols and have maintained muscle creatine levels.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you NEED glucose for maintenance. It's pretty damn easy to maintain the 2g creatine loss per day after saturation. I've been talking about loading, as are the studies I mentioned. But loading or maintenance theoretically sugar would help. Thought it wouldn't make an empirical difference whatsoever