Home Gym?

[Zoom123]

Hello,

I will soon start to draw the plans of my new house with the architect and I am considering adding a home gym. If I do it I have to do it very good, otherwise I will just waste my money and I will end up paying for a gym membership anyways (or get a worst kind of workout in my home gym and be disappointed about it)

I am not a hard core bodybuilder, but I do want to be able to work out all muscles appropriately and be able to change exercises every now and then.

This is the kind of equipment I am considering:

-multi-gym
-functional trainer
-power rack
-flat/incline bench
-abs bench
-dumbbell rack
-treadmill
-dumbbells, bars, plates etc)

All of the above will be commercial quality and the multi-gym will be one of the better ones, such as the Hoist V-Rox. I will have about $15-20.000 to spend for equipment.

Do you think I will be covered, or after spending all that money I will still not be able to get a "real gym" kind of workout? (and the money I will spend for it is not just those for the equipment, but also the expense of adding an additional, relatively big, room to the house). If I can get the 100% (or more) of a "real gym" experience, then I will go for it. If I will get anything less than 100% I will not! (My gym is equipped with Cybex Eagle machines and Cybex plate loaded and free weights)

Also I have a question regarding functional trainers. My gym has the Cybex FT-360s which I really like, but which is not very space efficient (you need to have the space for the arms to extent). There are a few other "360" kind of factional trainers and then there are the more "traditional" ones, with the two columns, which are more space efficient. Are the "360" ones really better or I wouldn't miss much if I go with the more efficient "traditional" design?

Thanks!

[Wildtim]

Look through the gym pictures thread and the Pics and discussion thread for some ideas and the discussion of them.

Personally I find the multi-gym and the functional trainers to be completely optional. I like to have a high/low pulley set-up but anything more complicated than that is just wasted on me.

Ab benches are also kinda useless, weighted sit-ups do just fine. In its place a GHR or at least a roman chair would be more useful.

For 15 to 20 bucks you won't get anything so I am going to assume you meant 15 to 20 thousand. This is a huge budget My home gym cost my one hundredth that with a little work and I lack little. On the other hand if this is the entire budget for the addition you are going to be hard pressed to have anything left after construction. One thing to remember is that often Commercial equipment isn't necessarily better than high end home equipment nor does it even have a higher capacity, it must be built to take the abuse of being used by uncaring gym members 24/7 nothing more. Some commercial equipment also can't fit through a standard door making it very difficult (or impossible) for the home user to bring in or take out.

[Zoom123]

Thanks for your reply!

They gym will be for the whole family that is why I want the multi-gym - and I have some knee problems so I prefer machines for most leg exercises. Also I really love the functional trainer they have at the gym (Cybex FT-360) that is why I am considering something similar for my home.

The budget is 15000-20000, and that is just for the equipment. This is going to be a new house and the gym (if I do it) will be a space designed as a gym from the beginning. I know I can get something satisfactory with a fraction of that amount, but if I am going to add a whole (relatively big) room to my house that is already a big expense and I feel I should do it as good as I can. Otherwise I should just save the money, both from building the room and buying the equipment, and continue going to a gym.

What is the lifespan of gym equipment? Will they need any maintenance? I guess that things that are just metal, like dumbbells, rags etc should last a lifetime without needing any maintenance. But what about things with moving parts and cables? That is why I want to buy commercial quality equipment. If they can last a few years in a regular gym where they are used constantly by all sorts of people, then in my home they should be able to last longer than I will!

[Viper098]

Hello,

I will soon start to draw the plans of my new house with the architect and I am considering adding a home gym. If I do it I have to do it very good, otherwise I will just waste my money and I will end up paying for a gym membership anyways (or get a worst kind of workout in my home gym and be disappointed about it)

I am not a hard core bodybuilder, but I do want to be able to work out all muscles appropriately and be able to change exercises every now and then.

This is the kind of equipment I am considering:

-multi-gym
-functional trainer
-power rack
-flat/incline bench
-abs bench
-dumbbell rack
-treadmill
-dumbbells, bars, plates etc)

All of the above will be commercial quality and the multi-gym will be one of the better ones, such as the Hoist V-Rox. I will have about $15-20.000 to spend for equipment.

Do you think I will be covered, or after spending all that money I will still not be able to get a "real gym" kind of workout? (and the money I will spend for it is not just those for the equipment, but also the expense of adding an additional, relatively big, room to the house). If I can get the 100% (or more) of a "real gym" experience, then I will go for it. If I will get anything less than 100% I will not! (My gym is equipped with Cybex Eagle machines and Cybex plate loaded and free weights)

Also I have a question regarding functional trainers. My gym has the Cybex FT-360s which I really like, but which is not very space efficient (you need to have the space for the arms to extent). There are a few other "360" kind of factional trainers and then there are the more "traditional" ones, with the two columns, which are more space efficient. Are the "360" ones really better or I wouldn't miss much if I go with the more efficient "traditional" design?

Thanks!

First .. I want your job (j/k)


Second.. Is a multi gym needed with the other equipment you are going to get or maybe it is for the other half? Not sure but after using a multi-gym (BodyCraft) and now a power rack along with a set of dumbbells and Olympic bar and weights, I feel I should have done this much sooner.


15 to 20k you can seriously spruce up a gym will all kinds of functional equipment to deal with the top 4/5 weight training exercises and have alot to spend on flooring and other things for that room.


I cannot wait (and hope you do) until you post pics of the room when done and furnished.

Good luck friend!


Viper098

[Skidmarx]

Take a look at Earl H 's gym pics, looks like a commercial gym.

[Earl H]

Take a look at Earl H 's gym pics, looks like a commercial gym.

Thanks Skids,

I was actually gonna comment on this thread...There isn't a simple one size fits all answer to your question. I am sure you'll get the typical cage/rack and [fill in the blank] response. I view it a bit differently than that, as you will see....

I had about the same criteria and budget. I am a bit more hardcore, but needed something for the family too. I spec'ed my gym to be able handle 3 people doing 3 exercise compound sets of different body part groupings at the same time without tripping over each other. I am proud of my home gym. I think it looks great. I am even more proud of how functional it is. I can truly say that I and my family get as good, if not better (for various reasons) than we did when we belonged to lifetime fitness (one of the better/more upscale gym chains in the area)....hell, I even have 4 of the same machines that they do. I've seen some obscenely nice gyms in this section, some of them are like show pieces with far more money into them than mine, but I can tell you EVERY piece in my gym gets used at least 2-3 days/weeks (I workout 6 days per week).

Other big questions besides budget and exercise is available space, layout, location (basement-walkout/traditional, garage, etc.), number of people working out at the same time, age of users (if kids/teenagers what sports do they participate in), type exercises desired now (free-weigths, machines, cardio-resistance, plyo-metrics, speed&agility, etc.) and in the future, accessibility to new/used equipment resellers, etc.

As you can tell, I am somewhat analytical in nature. The aforementioned questions, while numerous are useful in helping you make the most of the alotted budget. Believe me, it goes fast, even buying used. I favor buying used, because its easier to swap out stuff without losing your shirt in resale. Also, if you buy new, your budget will be exhuasted with just a few pieces. Good thing is, if you are patient (start collecting now), by the time you are ready (house is finished), you can have a killer setup.


Outline more of your criteria (see above)...and we can start getting an equipment list together. I am willing to take it to pm or even converse personally if you'd like.

[Wildtim]

To add just a little to the above.

Open floor space, leave more than you think you will need. If there is one thing that is lacking in many home gyms its floor space. Often things like room to stretch, use an ab wheel, do push-ups, or walking lunges and farmers walks get lost in all the cool toys you want to fit in.

Here's a fun tool to goof around with:

http://lifefitness-commercial.icovia.com/icovia.aspx

Its not a hundred percent accurate nor does it have "everyything" but it can help you look at how things are going to come together.

[Zoom123]

Viper, if I do the gym I will post some pictures. But it will not be any time soon, we haven't even made the architectural plans for the house yet!

Earl's gym is huge! Mine will be much smaller than that for sure. 450sq. feet max. Actually I want to make it as compact as possible, but as Wildtim said I don't want to make it so small that will not comfortably fit the equipment that I need. But my aim is to avoid single purpose equipment as I definitely do not have that much space.

Other big questions besides budget and exercise is available space, layout, location (basement-walkout/traditional, garage, etc.)

Space no more than 450sq.feet. Layout and location can be whatever I want, so please offer your suggestions on these!

number of people working out at the same time

Two, for now at least. But it doesn't have to be at the same time. I will probably work out more often than my wife.

age of users

I am early 30s, wife is mid 20s.

type exercises desired now (free-weigths, machines, cardio-resistance, plyo-metrics, speed&agility, etc.) and in the future

At the gym I do mostly free weights and machines, not much cardio, speed&agility etc. In the future I hope I will be able to continue in the same way, although I started having some tendonitis issues recently! I guess now I am older I should be more careful and follow the correct procedures (warming up etc). Wife likes cardio and machines - mostly for legs, and some free weights for arms.

accessibility to new/used equipment resellers, etc.

Very limited actually. I doubt I will be able to find most of what I want locally. That is another thing that will add to the cost of the equipment!

[Riggaman]

Wildtim nailed it with regard to the commercial equipment. In many cases the only difference is that it's made to take a nonstop beating all day every day.

There's plenty of equipment out there that could service an entire family for years without throwing money down the well on commercial.

[Earl H]

Wildtim nailed it with regard to the commercial equipment. In many cases the only difference is that it's made to take a nonstop beating all day every day.

There's plenty of equipment out there that could service an entire family for years without throwing money down the well on commercial.

I would disagree a bit (and this is only my opinion) with this...Top Tier Home equipment like Hoist/others is good and will last a lifetime. The differences that I've noticed between commercial equipment and top tier home equipment is stability and in alot of cases range of motion. For example, I had a parabody hack squat/leg press. I absolutely loved this machine and I owned that machine for over 10 years and sold it in pretty much the condition I bought it in (like new). When I loaded more than 800lbs on the machine, the frame would flex a bit more than I like...ergos were also not great, especially as I got older and the joints began to feel the effects of father time. I upgraded to a Cybex Squat/Leg Press and an Icarian Squat Press. Besides the better range of motion (i.e. natural arc motion vs. linear), the machines are rock-solid stable when loaded to the hilt with 45's/100's. The downside is that they take up alot more space...footprint for the parabody is 7ft long X 2.5ft wide...the commercial machines are 5ft wide by 6 to 7ft long. For leg extensions and leg curls, I was never able to find a home unit that felt ergonomically correct (legs, hips, knees always felt like they were in the wrong place). The best that I found was one by Bodycraft. I switched to a Cybex Prone Leg Curl and a Body Master Leg Extension and can't believe I waited as long as I did to make the switch. In the end, it cost me about $1,200 for both machines (used but in excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition) and I sold the old ones for about $500...so not that much to uprade. The other problem with most commercial pieces is that a great number of them cant get them thru a standard door way.

The OP's space limitiation may be the biggest factor in limiting his choices. You can get commercial machines that are dual use (i.e. seated leg extension/leg curl machine, hoist commercial row/lat pulldown, etc.). If he truly wants commercial, he is going to need specific machines that allow him to make the most of his space or the number of exercises will be limited. This will likely limit him to purchasing new vs used, since they are more specialized and not as prevalent in the market place.

In listening to some of his requirements, I'd do:

- Hoist PTS ENS 3 3d Smith Machine: Comes with Dual Side Hi/Lows and Lat Pulldown - Can do free weight chest, legs, back, etc. and Functional training movements and lat pulldown, cable back exercises)....it'll run you between $3-4K depending on where you buy it...
- Commercial combo seated leg extension/leg curl machine (this may get a bit costly as I havent seen many of these used and the new ones on ebay are in the $1,500-$2,000 range)
- Optional: Home Leg press/Hack Squat (Hoist, Parabody, Body-Solid...all make decent units)
- PreCor or Lifefitness Elliptical (looking for one now)..can be purchased used in the $1,000-$1,500 range.
- Adjustable Dumbell Set...stay away from the bowflex/plastic type...Ironmaster, Powerblocks or even spin locks and std plates...
- Flooring: Tractor Supply Company all the way...6X4ft stall mats

This should fill up your space nicely, keep you under budget and leave some walking room in between machines. Best of all, you can get a gym-level workout. Theres probably a few more things you could use like steps for lunges or bands for warmups, but this above is a good start.

[Zoom123]

Thanks for the advice Earl. I had a look at the Hoist PTS ENS 3 Machine and it seems very interesting. I don't know if you have any experience with Functional Trainers with moving arms, such as the Cybex FT-360s, and how they compare with the two-column type of functional trainers.

Regarding the "commercial vs non-commercial" discussion, what I want is commercial quality, not necessarily equipment made only for commercial gyms. The reasons I want this are: (1) That I want the equipment to last for 25-30 years. Commercial equipment is made to be used constantly by many people in the gyms and still last for many years, so I figured in my case, with the much lower usage, they should last easily for decades without any problems. (2) In the past a had some non-commercial gym equipment and they just didn't feel anything close to the Cybex machines and benches at the gym. It is the smoothness of operation and the ergonomic motion that Earl talked about.

But in my case the weight the machines can handle is not an issue. For example I can only bench press 250lbs max, and I am not getting any younger!

Earl, do you have an opinion regarding the Hoist V-Rox multi-gym?

I watched the video and it looks very high quality, among a lot of others things it also seems to have very nice and smooth leg-curl/leg-extensions, and you can also add a nice leg press to it. And since amount of weight is not an issue for me I was thinking that such machine could be good for my case.

[xephonics]

If you can find a used one of these it might save you some space (there is one at the employee gym where I work)

http://www.freemotionfitness.com/web...02_10011_10465

pretty decent piece of equip

[Zoom123]

Thanks! That looks a lot like the Cybex FT-360s I was talking about earlier. Vectra Fitness also has a similar one, the VX-FT.

[xephonics]

Thanks! That looks a lot like the Cybex FT-360s I was talking about earlier. Vectra Fitness also has a similar one, the VX-FT.

yeah it is similar, but the freemotion has a smaller footprint than the cybex.

The vectra one def looks nice as well.

[Zoom123]

Thanks! Smaller footprint is definitely a big plus ... although it looks a bit uglier that the Cybex and the Vectra

[Earl H]

Thanks for the advice Earl. I had a look at the Hoist PTS ENS 3 Machine and it seems very interesting. I don't know if you have any experience with Functional Trainers with moving arms, such as the Cybex FT-360s, and how they compare with the two-column type of functional trainers.

Regarding the "commercial vs non-commercial" discussion, what I want is commercial quality, not necessarily equipment made only for commercial gyms. The reasons I want this are: (1) That I want the equipment to last for 25-30 years. Commercial equipment is made to be used constantly by many people in the gyms and still last for many years, so I figured in my case, with the much lower usage, they should last easily for decades without any problems. (2) In the past a had some non-commercial gym equipment and they just didn't feel anything close to the Cybex machines and benches at the gym. It is the smoothness of operation and the ergonomic motion that Earl talked about.

But in my case the weight the machines can handle is not an issue. For example I can only bench press 250lbs max, and I am not getting any younger!

Earl, do you have an opinion regarding the Hoist V-Rox multi-gym?

I watched the video and it looks very high quality, among a lot of others things it also seems to have very nice and smooth leg-curl/leg-extensions, and you can also add a nice leg press to it. And since amount of weight is not an issue for me I was thinking that such machine could be good for my case.

I don't have any experience withthe V-Rox stuff, therefore I cant comment. You've mentioned it a couple of times, therefore I think you are more interested/impressed with that line of equipment. After owning the Hoist stuff, I can say that they make quality equipment and I don't think you can go wrong from a quality standpoint.

RE: Commercial vs. Home (High-End)...if your major criteria is that you want it to last for awhile, then High-end home stuff will do that. I've mentioned why I favor commercial equipment in some instances (i.e. ergonomics, high weight stability, etc.). The question is really, what works best for you... Only you can decide that. The best advice I can give you in this case is "try before you buy". Make sure you like whatever you are getting. I would even suggest going to fitness store and doing a workout or two on it. What feels good once, may not feel so long-term. In terms of Commercial stuff, I like the classic stuff...Cybex VR2 series, Icarian, etc....they cheaper and easier to obtain.

RE: functional trainers, those listed and others,...I used them for a few years in our local commercial gym. They were great for complimentary exercises. For your core lifts, bench, squat, others...you'll need other equipment. For my own personal viewpoint, they are pretty expensive for what they offer. If this becomes a core piece of your gym (and for $3-6K, it better be a core part of the gym ;-) ), you will really have to get creative to keep your workouts fresh and varied, for one to keep you interested and two to keep make gains for a strength and physique standpoint.

One thing you have to remember is that since your home gym will be your primary source of exercise, you should buy equipment that allows variety in the types of exercieses...otherwise you'll get bored, gradually stop using it, and one of us will end up buying your stuff on Craigslist ;-) At any rate, good luck in your search, continue to do your research thru good sites like this and going out trying the equipment out. Most stores are pretty cool about letting you take equipment for "test drives".

[Earl H]

Ok, just saw the Vrox. My neighbor has an older version of this setup (either v2 or v5 something). Its a nice setup, if you use it. Not a fan of these all-in-one types....but its a quality piece. One thing I will say is there is no reason to buy this thing new. The older versions pop up in CL all the time (Det) for between $500 and $1,500.

[Zoom123]

Thanks Earl,

Your help has been invaluable!

We are still far from selecting the specific machines for the gym but I wanted to know the type of machines I will need so I will plan the space accordingly. When the time comes to buy specific equipment I will be back here asking about brands and models!

One last thing I wanted to know is about gym equipment maintenance. If I buy high quality equipment, will I ever need to change wires or fix things? In other words, except from the innitial fixed cost, will there be running costs to maintain the gym over the years?

[ironwill2008]

One last thing I wanted to know is about gym equipment maintenance. If I buy high quality equipment, will I ever need to change wires or fix things? In other words, except from the innitial fixed cost, will there be running costs to maintain the gym over the years?

Maintainance will be pretty much limited to wiping the dust off of stuff. Going through everything and checking bolts for tightness every couple of years , and possibly wiping down the guide rods on a Smith or Leg Press with Lithium grease is about it.

I've had my stuff for about 10 years. If you buy decent-quality equipment, you'll never live long enough to wear it out.

[Zoom123]

I decided not to add a separate Functional Trainer and to go with Hoist PTS like Earl suggested. But I will probably get the ENS 2 instead of ENS 3, since I will also get a multi-gym like the Hoist V-Rox with the leg-press add-on.

The gym will also include a treadmill, an abs bench, a FID bench, a dumbbell rack and a weight tree.

I uploaded an image of the layout I am considering. If you think I should add or change something please let me know!!

[thedickus]

I decided not to add a separate Functional Trainer and to go with Hoist PTS like Earl suggested. But I will probably get the ENS 2 instead of ENS 3, since I will also get a multi-gym like the Hoist V-Rox with the leg-press add-on.

The gym will also include a treadmill, an abs bench, a FID bench, a dumbbell rack and a weight tree.

I uploaded an image of the layout I am considering. If you think I should add or change something please let me know!!

It looks like a nice plan. It's just that with a $20K equipment budget I was hoping for so much more :-(

I don't at all mean that as a knock I just know what I'd do with a $20K budget. Some how I think my juice bar would include a kegerator.

[mtl]

I decided not to add a separate Functional Trainer and to go with Hoist PTS like Earl suggested. But I will probably get the ENS 2 instead of ENS 3, since I will also get a multi-gym like the Hoist V-Rox with the leg-press add-on.

The gym will also include a treadmill, an abs bench, a FID bench, a dumbbell rack and a weight tree.

I uploaded an image of the layout I am considering. If you think I should add or change something please let me know!!

It looks like a pretty good plan but there's a few things I might do insead. Getting a nice gym setup is more about planning and layout than it is about throwing money at the problem. I'm working on a fairly limited space myself so you've got a bit more to work from but layout on your space is still key.

My suggestions:

1) I'd definately suggest the Bodycraft Jones smith over the Hoist (mainly because the Jones setup can be racked at any point during your lift). Both are good machines but the Jones has an edge IMHO. The cable crossover should also be a very important part of your exercise program so spend the money to make it a separate machine. Spend the money to get a good quality FID bench which you can also use with freeweights or to do ab exercises.

2) Skip the all-in-one gym's entirely. The honeymoon with these type of machines is very short and they cost a pretty penny so do yourself a favor and don't bother. The have a limited range of motion even on the most expensive machines and the number of exercises I find is also quite limited. There's a reason why these things are a dime a dozen on CL.

3) Add a dedicated cable crossover machine. I have a Body-Solid Functional Trainer 200 which I reviewed with pics here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121676571, but many companies put out very nice machines including BS (GDCC210, GDCC200 or GDCC250), Hoist (V6 PPG), Torque (F5). There are also more expensive commercial machines like those from Freemotion (EXT), Cybex (FT-360s) and others but I think they are very expensive for a home gym for what they offer. I went with Body-Solid because they offer a very good value for the money.

4) Save an area for body weight exercises. Good gyms always have a nice matted area for cardio work so you might consider a set of crossfit EXF rings or a TRX trainer system. I'd also add a flatscreen TV on the wall with a Blu-Ray player in this area for you to use with DVD programs like P90X or just to watch shows while working out (I'd bet your wife will appreciate this feature). Consider adding a pair of Bosu's to add some core/balance routines to your workouts with the functional trainer or dumbells and perhaps add a set of medicine balls.

5) I'd add a Preacher curl station. Commercial versions are quite inexpensive and won't take up much money or space.

6) Consider adding a Lat machine. I'd suggest a commercial selectorized version. If you or your wife are not able to do consecutive chin-ups with your own body weight, then this machine will definately be useful for you both. You might consider a used item from a gym going out of business and having it refinished.

7) I would add a Leg Extension / Curl station. There are a bunch of good machines which will do both in one station like the Cybex VR1 and others. I would buy this item used from a gym though and maybe spend money to have it powder coated to match your other equipment.

8) I would also consider adding a dip and chin-up station. Again very inexpensive and not much space.

9) Add a concept 2 model D or E rowing machine with a PM4. I can't say enough about these for cardio work.



There are a host of other machines you could get provided you have the space but the core equipment will be your power cage, a functional trainer and cardio equipment.

- Leg Press / Hack Squat station
- Calf Machine
- Roman Chair
- Kettlebells

[Zoom123]

thedickus, the only thing missing from my initial list is the functional trainer

mtl, thanks for the good advice. Only thing is that I believe your suggestions will require quite a bit more space than what I have. Some questions:

- In what way is a separate cross over machine better than the one that comes with the Hoist PST (or the Bodycraft Jones)? I understand how something like the Cybex FT-360 will be better because of the rotating arms, but I don't see why the cross over on the PST or the Jones will be worst than say the Body-Solid Functional Trainer 200.

- Are you talking about multi-gyms in general, or specifically about the one I wrote about? With the V-Rox I can get a leg-press, leg extension / curl station and lat pull down (among other things) in the same machine, and it seems like high quality equipment with ergonomic movements, unlike most low cost multi-gyms. It might not be cheap but it seems to be very economical solution space-wise.

And I am certainly adding a flat panel in there ... and several large mirrors Maybe I will skip the blue-ray though and just have the TV fetch content from the media center.

[Earl H]

Setup looks pretty good for your stated use. RE: functional trainer...PTS Side hi/lo's work just as well. RE: cost...you can come in well under budget if you buy used...start looking now! I think a good chunk of your budget will be tied up in dumbbells...new or used they are pretty expensive. Used commercial cardio equipment is actually quite reasonable, so you also have options there (check ebay to get an idea on cost..CL also an option).

One note about the Hoist PTS vs. Jones Machine: I like that the Jones can be racked at any point in the movement...great saftey feature. The advantage to the hoist PTS, besides being more common or more likely to come avail. used, is that you can use the twin gun racks for a std Olympic bar for true free weight movement if you wish. In this regard the Hoist acts just like a cage system.

+1 on the media server and flat screen vs. sep. blue-ray player. I run 3 PS3's thru my house...cant beat them as media streaming devices.

Either way, there is some good info here. You are off to a good start.

[Zoom123]

Thanks Earl. Regarding the PTS vs the Jones, for me the ability to use a standard Olympic bar is more important than the ability to rack at any point. But I noticed that the cross over on the Jones is further apart than the ones on the PTS. I think that this could be a significant advantage. What do you think? Or maybe the cross over on the PTS is wide enough for somebody who is not tall (I am 5'8")

[Earl H]

Thanks Earl. Regarding the PTS vs the Jones, for me the ability to use a standard Olympic bar is more important than the ability to rack at any point. But I noticed that the cross over on the Jones is further apart than the ones on the PTS. I think that this could be a significant advantage. What do you think? Or maybe the cross over on the PTS is wide enough for somebody who is not tall (I am 5'8")

I haven't seen or used the Jones X-Over, so I cant really comment. RE: Hoist X-Over...its more like a functional trainer vs. a full-sized cable crossover...You can however do one armed crossover movements by positioning yourself appropriately. I wont advocate Jones over Hoist only cuz I don't think you can go wrong either way. Its really about whats most important to you. I can say that the PTS works great for me. My only gripe is that the side hi-los only go up to 150#'s....adequate for core workout but not adequate for hard core-high weight cable crossover movements....guess its part of the compromise with almost commercial equipment.

[mtl]

I haven't seen or used the Jones X-Over, so I cant really comment. RE: Hoist X-Over...its more like a functional trainer vs. a full-sized cable crossover...You can however do one armed crossover movements by positioning yourself appropriately. I wont advocate Jones over Hoist only cuz I don't think you can go wrong either way. Its really about whats most important to you. I can say that the PTS works great for me. My only gripe is that the side hi-los only go up to 150#'s....adequate for core workout but not adequate for hard core-high weight cable crossover movements....guess its part of the compromise with almost commercial equipment.

I agree with Earl and I would say one or the other is better quality than the other, just that the features are different. I would think that if racking a standard olympic bar was preferred, then why not just go with a standard power cage and pocket the difference on a smith machine. To me the convienence and safety of racking anywhere in your movement would give that machine an edge but again it really boils down to personal preference.

[Zoom123]

A smith is not really required. Actually I don't like the traditional smiths were the bars move in only one direction - I almost never use it at the gym. But these "jones" systems seem nice. A power cage will do though. Are there any high quality cages with chin-up bar and a crossover option?


Also what is exactly the difference between a cable crossover machine and a functional trainer? The distance between the pulleys? I thought that with functional trainers you could do the crossover exercises, but some of them seem to be not wide enough for this purpose.

[Keetman]

Well if you're wanting a power cage with a crossover, you used to be able to get the Bodycraft F430:






But for some reason, the unfortunately discontinued the crossover attachment sometime last year. You might be able to find a reseller with one in stock, but its doubtful. When I ordered mine they were backordered and I got it straight from Bodycraft that they were only ordering in 10 for the whole country. That was a year ago. For all I know that was the last 10 that came into the country......4 of those were already spoken for and I got one.....so the math isn't very good.

Its a shame too because the rack is fantastic and it was a really nice feature. I assume that because of the space required and the price ($1200 at the time for the rack and the CO), they didn't sell very well.


As far as I can remember right off the top of my head, the only other decent manufacturer with this option is TDS from New York Barbell:

http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/8510.html


That link will take you to the page with the rack system and the option crossover attachment. I've never seen any of their equipment, but several people here have their stuff and like it alot. The only review I've seen of the CO attachment was from a guy here that liked it, but had some difficulties putting it together (like the pieces didn't go together perfectly).

TDS has a lot of accessories for their racks which is a pretty cool plus.

[mtl]

A smith is not really required. Actually I don't like the traditional smiths were the bars move in only one direction - I almost never use it at the gym. But these "jones" systems seem nice. A power cage will do though. Are there any high quality cages with chin-up bar and a crossover option?


Also what is exactly the difference between a cable crossover machine and a functional trainer? The distance between the pulleys? I thought that with functional trainers you could do the crossover exercises, but some of them seem to be not wide enough for this purpose.

The Jones machines are nice but if you don't use a smith or a spotter at the gym even on the heavy stuff, then you'll save alot of money by just getting a standard power rack. Plenty of options for this including PowerTec (PPR), Body-Solid (GPR378) and BodyCraft (F430) among others.

Again I don't suggest putting the cable crossover on the front of the power cage because...
1) you'll pay alot more money for it this way
2) you appear to have alot of extra room in your space in front of the power rack
3) the adjustments posts are usually wider on dedicated crossover machines which give you a larger range of exercises and motions.

Cable crossover and functional trainers are pretty much one and the same. They may have different features which make one stand out over another though. One thing to note is that when using the crossover machine effectively, you don't just stand inside a cable crossover and do chest exercises or core torque movements, there is alot of flexability to design new exercises with a machine like that and you need to have space in front of the machine as well to do this.

There are really three categories of cable crossovers:
1) No adjustment fixed Hi-Lo pulley (older style cable crossovers, some power rack attachments)
2) Height adjustable, fixed width pulley (BS GDCC200, Hoist V6 PPG, etc)
3) Fully adjustable height / width pulley (Freemotion, Cybex, etc)

I personally would shoot for the 2nd or 3rd category since adjustability plays a big role in the ability to design new exercises for your workout. The 3rd category are the best but they are also the most expensive ($4k-6k) and take up a larger amount of space. I went for the 2nd category (generally $1k-2k) because I just don't have $4k-6k in disposable income. Through it all it really boils down to what you want to do to be fit and what type of workouts you'd prefer. I myself prefer to set up flexibility in my routines so for me a crossover is a core piece of equipment, but some prefer the more traditional powerlifter exercises which may not favor a crossover machine.