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  1. #1
    Registered User mac520's Avatar
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    Paleo diet discussion

    I noticed there's no threads on this board about the Paleo diet. What are people's opinions on this? I've been reading Mark's Daily Apple http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ and Theory to Practice http://theorytopractice.wordpress.com/ They're both men in their 40s or 50s who follow a low-carb Paleo diet, train regularly, and look really great, especially for their age. They both claim that the Paleo diet and training style has improved their health and fitness.

    What are people's opinions on this diet? I just started it about 3 weeks ago and haven't noticed much difference. I didn't experience any of the fatigue people warned about, though my energy levels might be more stable and I can manage my hunger better.

    There also seems to be a lot of information out there concluding that fats are healthier than carbs. This blog in particular http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ constantly cites scientific studies concluding high-fat, low-carb is the way to go.

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    Just another fad diet. Sisson sucks too.

    You asked.

  3. #3
    Registered User mac520's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scott~ View Post
    Just another fad diet. Sisson sucks too.

    You asked.
    Nice support in your argument.

  4. #4
    Atlas SDC77's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mac520 View Post
    Nice support in your argument.
    Paleo has been covered extensively. Hit up these sites for Paleo koolaid...

    www.crossfit.com
    www.robbwolf.com
    www.fitnessspotlight.com

  5. #5
    Registered User mac520's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scott~ View Post
    Paleo has been covered extensively. Hit up these sites for Paleo koolaid...

    www.crossfit.com
    www.robbwolf.com
    www.fitnessspotlight.com
    I don't see anything about paleo on the first link, but the second link is great. Gained 15 lbs of LBM and no fat on a paleo diet. 1500 testimonials.

  6. #6
    "Full House" KLMARB's Avatar
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    There was a pretty good paleo thread going, but it got pulled a few months ago, reasons unknown. The entire concept appears to offend those who apply subjective morality to their food choices, especially since paleo goes against the vegetarian/health food/mainstream thermodynamic types of dietary philosophies...Passions run pretty strong when you think eating meat and/or meat fat is evil.....I do find it interesting that a nutritional concept that mankind has followed for literally millions of years is dismissed as a "fad diet"....
    Last edited by KLMARB; 01-26-2010 at 02:29 PM.
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......

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    Originally Posted by Scott~ View Post
    Just another fad diet. Sisson sucks too.

    You asked.
    Another fad diet? You're not really that dense are you?

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    the funny part is that this thread was posted in the Advanced Nutrition section.
    will never rep a racist post again!

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    Originally Posted by HI_KKM View Post
    the funny part is that this thread was posted in the Advanced Nutrition section.
    Because I was looking for an advanced opinion of the paleo diet, not just broscience logic on the main nutrition board who would say "dude that's too much fat, you need carbs!"

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    Paleo, in my opinion, is a healthy diet. BUT, the logic for excluding specific foods/food groups is not based off of substantial evidence but rather off of theory. Nutritional theories have their place and I am in no way bashing Paleo here, but science based evidence and controlled evidence outwits speculation and theory in my books.

    I think any diet where the elimination of nutritional culprit in the diet has the potential of being healthy. Paleo does just that. But speaking long term...for the Paleo follower who isn't on Paleo for "life," lifestyle and behavioral modifications and "learning" how to eat a balanced diet are still needed to be made after cessation of Paleo.
    If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.

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    "Full House" KLMARB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    Paleo, in my opinion, is a healthy diet. BUT, the logic for excluding specific foods/food groups is not based off of substantial evidence but rather off of theory. Nutritional theories have their place and I am in no way bashing Paleo here, but science based evidence and controlled evidence outwits speculation and theory in my books.

    I think any diet where the elimination of nutritional culprit in the diet has the potential of being healthy. Paleo does just that. But speaking long term...for the Paleo follower who isn't on Paleo for "life," lifestyle and behavioral modifications and "learning" how to eat a balanced diet are still needed to be made after cessation of Paleo.
    Interesting post. Have you ever read the material on Paloediet.com? I think you'll find plenty of scientific data to back up the concept....Simply dismissing a concept as "theory" is hardly an objective rebuttal/refutation..
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......

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    its a sound diet but not very practical in a world where alot of people are on the run 8-12 hours a day and cant carry a cooler, with some slight modifications it can be good, but wouldnt be a true paleo diet.

  13. #13
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    I think you misunderstand the paleo diet. Where did you read you have to keep a cooler with you? And why would the paleo diet require a cooler as opposed to any other diet? If you are talking about meal frequency, I have read about some paleo people who practice intermittent fasting, which would make it more convenient to not eat during that period.

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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    Interesting post. Have you ever read the material on Paloediet.com? I think you'll find plenty of scientific data to back up the concept....Simply dismissing a concept as "theory" is hardly an objective rebuttal/refutation..
    I find Paleo has an incredible amount of merit. I am not knocking it in any way or form, but the rationale for avoiding certain foods that possess nutrient qualities inherent to a specific food that cannot be found in the same quantities than it's food counterparts lacks some merit. Exclusion diets can be very restrictive (and expensive) and avoiding particular foods groups because our ancestors apparently did not consume these foods (grains, legumes, dairy) and somehow set the standard for "ideal" health, nutrition, and longevity. Where is the documentation that cavemen (and cavewomen) populations did not encounter disease states present in our western culture as an effect of eating the foods Paleo preaches? This is strictly theory. Hunter-gatherers were more active and consumed less calories than today's society - which serves as a bigger predicament for greater health status than their food avoidance. Furthermore, look at the advancements in medical nutrition therapy (MNT) in today's dietetic world. Registered Dietitians in a clinical setting are not prescribing an avoidance of particular whole grains and dairy to CVD patients and these same CVD patients are making progress to a greater health status while implementing these foods to "avoid" into their diets. Lifestyle, behavior, and simple dietary modifications can produce the same health and longevity status in present day without restricting variety. More than one way to skin a cat

    I actually have a very good friend who follows the Paleo diet (and crossfit) religiously and I think the Paleo diet is a GREAT diet, don't get me wrong. But restrictive diets tend to be a unrealistic approach to improving health status for the mainstream of society.

    Sorry for the long winded post KLMARB

    Have a great weekend

    - mike
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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    I find Paleo has an incredible amount of merit. I am not knocking it in any way or form, but the rationale for avoiding certain foods that possess nutrient qualities inherent to a specific food that cannot be found in the same quantities than it's food counterparts lacks some merit. Exclusion diets can be very restrictive (and expensive) and avoiding particular foods groups because our ancestors apparently did not consume these foods (grains, legumes, dairy) and somehow set the standard for "ideal" health, nutrition, and longevity. Where is the documentation that cavemen (and cavewomen) populations did not encounter disease states present in our western culture as an effect of eating the foods Paleo preaches? This is strictly theory. Hunter-gatherers were more active and consumed less calories than today's society - which serves as a bigger predicament for greater health status than their food avoidance. Furthermore, look at the advancements in medical nutrition therapy (MNT) in today's dietetic world. Registered Dietitians in a clinical setting are not prescribing an avoidance of particular whole grains and dairy to CVD patients and these same CVD patients are making progress to a greater health status while implementing these foods to "avoid" into their diets. Lifestyle, behavior, and simple dietary modifications can produce the same health and longevity status in present day without restricting variety. More than one way to skin a cat

    I actually have a very good friend who follows the Paleo diet (and crossfit) religiously and I think the Paleo diet is a GREAT diet, don't get me wrong. But restrictive diets tend to be a unrealistic approach to improving health status for the mainstream of society.

    Sorry for the long winded post KLMARB

    Have a great weekend

    - mike
    A reasonable reply, but, you didn't address anything specific. I'm not knocking you for that, because your response was reasonable and articulate. So, in order to advance the discussion I'll cite some sources. Please feel free to offer a rebuttal, but make please make sure it has a scientific basis, rather than mere opinion. I'd also like to state that I don't have any emotional/moral attachment to the paleo concept, rather that it makes quite a bit of sense to me, due to my background (fairly limited) in anthropology. So, let's dive in...

    Here's some data on paleo-meso-neolithic lifespans:
    http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...-1984-1a.shtml

    This explains the concept of "Evolutionary Discordance".
    http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/g...gumes-1a.shtml

    This discusses what is Mankind's original, natural, diet.
    http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...erview1a.shtml

    I think that this is enough for a discussion. Fire away....
    Last edited by KLMARB; 02-12-2010 at 04:45 PM.
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    A reasonable reply, but, you didn't address anything specific. I'm not knocking you for that, because your response was reasonable and articulate. So, in order to advance the discussion I'll cite some sources. Please feel free to offer a rebuttal, but make please make sure it has a scientific basis, rather than mere opinion. I'd also like to state that I don't have any emotional/moral attachment to the paleo concept, rather that it make quite a bit of sense to me, due to my background (fairly limited) in anthropology. So, let's dive in...

    Here's some data on paleo-meso-neolithic lifespans:
    http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...-1984-1a.shtml

    This explains the concept of "Evolutionary Discordance".
    http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/g...gumes-1a.shtml

    This discusses what is Mankind's original, natural, diet.
    http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...erview1a.shtml

    I think that this is enough for a discussion. Fire away....
    Thanks for posting those links. Like I said, Paleo has the most merit out of all these non traditional diets in my opinion. Just to clarify, you mentioned that my reply had no science based evidence and was strictly opinion. Well, the reference I made to MNT and chronic disease is science based. Scientific data has shown that dietary interventions may prevent or lessen the degree of chronic disease (cardiovascular disease, diabetes mellitus, hypertension) whilst following a balanced diet that incorporates all food groups. See: Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abst...n.2009.27725v1) and the ever so popular Framingham study. I could post studies for each disease state which involve some nutrition intervention that is realistic for today's society to follow as a preventative measure or corrective measure for chronic disease. Also, see "The effects of a whole grain-enriched hypocaloric diet on cardiovascular disease risk factors in men and women with metabolic syndrome" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175740, yes the inclusion of whole grains on a hypocaloric diet can help promote longevity just as well by preventing the development of CVD. Look, I believe interventions for promoting health and longevity through nutrition boils down to doing what is realistic (following a non-restricted, balanced) and the less restrictive, the better. And Paleo doesn't fit that bill. Paleo's "approved foods" are all great, don't get me wrong, but the inclusion of other food groups and dietary interventions can promote longevity and good health just as well as shown in the referenced studies. I don't have thing against Paleo, but as learned in my upper level nutritional biochemistry and dietetic classes, Paleo has merit for helping a dieter or individual clean up his/her diet fast thus incorporating anti-inflammatory foods + better food options, but that does not mean there isn't another approach that could deliver the same results or better. More than one way to skin a cat like I said.
    Last edited by mivi320; 02-12-2010 at 12:42 PM.
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  17. #17
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    It's never been about Paleo being a bad diet, the problem is with the bull**** claims that grains, tubers, dairy, and legumes are detrimental to human health.

    Paleo can be very healthy, but so can a grain heavy diet.

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    Originally Posted by Scott~ View Post
    It's never been about Paleo being a bad diet, the problem is with the bull**** claims that grains, tubers, dairy, and legumes are detrimental to human health.

    Paleo can be very healthy, but so can a grain heavy diet.
    My thoughts in a nutshell.
    If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.

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    I have a question in regards to the Paleolithic Diet, i've heard that it is a bit pricey to go on a full (stick) diet, due to the consumption of produce and a lot of meat. Is this correct or am I mislead?
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    Originally Posted by ilove2run View Post
    I have a question in regards to the Paleolithic Diet, i've heard that it is a bit pricey to go on a full (stick) diet, due to the consumption of produce and a lot of meat. Is this correct or am I mislead?
    Yes, it is a very expensive diet.

    Take a look at the acceptable and unacceptable food list. Plenty of meat, fresh produce, and organic foods only if you're an extreme paleo-er. Keep in mind dietary cho is restricted so the these are the bulk of your diet (aka staples) which can make for a not so cost friendly grocery bill.
    If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.

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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    Yes, it is a very expensive diet.

    Take a look at the acceptable and unacceptable food list. Plenty of meat, fresh produce, and organic foods only if you're an extreme paleo-er. Keep in mind dietary cho is restricted so the these are the bulk of your diet (aka staples) which can make for a not so cost friendly grocery bill.
    Ah yah that is what i thought heh, thanks.

    And thank you to all the people in this convo, this discussion thread will greatly help my research project for college , reps to everyone
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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    Yes, it is a very expensive diet.

    Take a look at the acceptable and unacceptable food list. Plenty of meat, fresh produce, and organic foods only if you're an extreme paleo-er. Keep in mind dietary cho is restricted so the these are the bulk of your diet (aka staples) which can make for a not so cost friendly grocery bill.
    Paleo doesn't need to be expensive. Most health benefits arise from choosing the right kinds of foods (vegetables versus grains, fats versus carbs), and only a bit is from buying higher quality versions of those foods (i.e. grass-fed or organic). For me to transition to paleo, I just switched out bread, pasta, and rice for oil, butter, and nuts -- all cheap when bought in bulk. And I made sure to eat enough vegetables as I learned the importance of vitamins and phytonutrients. Vegetables can get expensive, but you should be eating them anyway. I don't see paleo as being any more expensive than a conventional diet, unless you choose to buy the most expensive versions of foods. Take what is useful, reject what is not.

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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    Thanks for posting those links. Like I said, Paleo has the most merit out of all these non traditional diets in my opinion. Just to clarify, you mentioned that my reply had no science based evidence and was strictly opinion. Well, the reference I made to MNT and chronic disease is science based. Scientific data has shown that dietary interventions may prevent or lessen the degree of chronic disease (cardiovascular disease, diabetes mellitus, hypertension) whilst following a balanced diet that incorporates all food groups. See: Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abst...n.2009.27725v1) and the ever so popular Framingham study. I could post studies for each disease state which involve some nutrition intervention that is realistic for today's society to follow as a preventative measure or corrective measure for chronic disease. Also, see "The effects of a whole grain-enriched hypocaloric diet on cardiovascular disease risk factors in men and women with metabolic syndrome" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175740, yes the inclusion of whole grains on a hypocaloric diet can help promote longevity just as well by preventing the development of CVD. Look, I believe interventions for promoting health and longevity through nutrition boils down to doing what is realistic (following a non-restricted, balanced) and the less restrictive, the better. And Paleo doesn't fit that bill. Paleo's "approved foods" are all great, don't get me wrong, but the inclusion of other food groups and dietary interventions can promote longevity and good health just as well as shown in the referenced studies. I don't have thing against Paleo, but as learned in my upper level nutritional biochemistry and dietetic classes, Paleo has merit for helping a dieter or individual clean up his/her diet fast thus incorporating anti-inflammatory foods + better food options, but that does not mean there isn't another approach that could deliver the same results or better. More than one way to skin a cat like I said.
    Hmmm. I may be missing something, but the grain study merely compared whole grain vs. refined grains. I don't think that was especially relevant to our discussion, as paleo is considered to be grain free. The study on fats showed that saturated fat intake was not the issue in CHD. Personally, I believe it is PUSFs, as well as carb-fat combinations resulting in chronic hyperinsulinemia that are probably the real causes of CHD. But, that's another discussion. Since your reply was so quick, I'm not sure you had a chance to look at the material I posted, so I'm interested to see what you have to say once you've checked it out.

    Probably the best work on grains is Cordain's "Cereal Grains: Humanity's Double-edged Sword", a paper I highly recommend reading.

    As to specific effects of evolutionary discordance, its always a matter of types, amounts, and frequecy of intake, all depending upon an individual's specific genetics. What are considered "food allergies", in my opinion, are/can be examples of this.

    From reading some of the other posts, I get the idea that people think paleo is some kind of meat-and-fat only concept, but that is a misconception. There are plenty of fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, etc. As to the cost, you'd be suprised how reasonable it is if you know how to cook, as things like chicken, beef brisket, pork shoulder, etc. are fairly reasonably priced, and frozen veggies serve very well.
    Last edited by KLMARB; 02-12-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    Hmmm. I may be missing something, but the grain study merely compared whole grain vs. refined grains. I don't think that was especially relevant to our discussion, as paleo is considered to be grain free. The study on fats showed that saturated fat intake was not the issue in CHD. Personally, I believe it is PUSFs, as well as carb-fat combinations resulting in chronic hyperinsulinemia that are probably the real causes of CHD. But, that's another discussion. Since your reply was so quick, I'm not sure you had a chance to look at the material I posted, so I'm interested to see what you have to say once you've checked it out.

    Probably the best work on grains is Cordain's "Cereal Grains: Humanity's Double-edged Sword", a paper I highly recommend reading.

    As to specific effects of evolutionary discordance, its always a matter of types, amounts, and frequecy of intake, all depending upon an individual's specific genetics. What are considered "food allergies", in my opinion, are/can be examples of this.

    From reading some of the other posts, I get the idea that people think paleo is some kind of meat-and-fat only concept, but that is a misconception. There are plenty of fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, etc. As to the cost, you'd be suprised how reasonable it is if you know how to cook, as things like chicken, beef brisket, pork shoulder, etc. are fairly reasonably priced, and frozen veggies serve very well.
    I did read your links and found them very interesting. As I have stated numerous times, Paleo has plenty of merit but I still can't agree with the speculation of food allergies stemming from evolution. Those studies were crap and I didn't read them entirely before posting them up, but here is what I was trying to get at with my last post... data suggests greater decreases in total cholesterol and LDL-C occur as the number of MNT visits and time spent with a dietitian increases as shown here http://www.springerlink.com/content/jj272r761u73u2q6/ ... this is the basis of my argument that MNT by a dietitian can easily promote the same longevity at a more realistic and practical standpoint then going gung-ho paleo. Simple dietary interventions could be implemented in folks with potential chronic disease development without altering their diets completely. I remember reading a study awhile back that suggested ketogenic diets can reverse the effects of diabetes mellitus more so than a VLCD (very low cal diet)...which works in favor for a paleo like diet...I believe the intervention for the study was <20g cho for the keto diet...ah here is the study: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/36 ... so proven along with the other studies, paleo can be an intervention for some disease states, BUT the basis of my argument is that mainstream society simply cannot adapt to such a diet. More realistic dietary approaches must be taken coupled with lifestyle and behavioral modifications must be made. Can we agree there? Or a tleast agree to disagree?

    edit: the evolutionary discordance of grains write up was very interesting...I am still under the impression that paleo focuses on the evolution of foods rather their objective food components and properties.

    Just wondering, what is the paleo approach towards phytic acid found in almonds?

    have a good night klmarb
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    Originally Posted by ilove2run View Post
    I have a question in regards to the Paleolithic Diet, i've heard that it is a bit pricey to go on a full (stick) diet, due to the consumption of produce and a lot of meat. Is this correct or am I mislead?
    No it's really quite reasonable. For one, we are eating out less. And that's always a big savings. So even if you are buying stuff that's "a bit more" at the store, the net expenditure is absolutely less, without question. But we aren't giving up that amazing weekly indian meal at my local spot - the chef there is amazing ...

    Anyway I digress. Here are some recent purchases that are all Paleo. Most of it was from our local Asian market so it's SUPER fresh and priced really well.

    - Broccoli, Cauliflower, Watercress, Spinach, Broccolini (great stuff), Yu Choi, onions, carrots, tomatoes. None of these were organic to my knowledge but we just wash everything really well.
    - the most expensive part here was the watercress at $2/bunch but it's SO GOOD
    - Turkey Breast ($2.33/Lb), Chicken Breast ($1.99/Lb), Chicken Livers ($1.39/Lb), a bit of marinaded ribeye steak, already sliced thin Korean BBQ style ($3.34/Lb)
    - Egg protein (whites only). 5 pounds for $45 (1 scoop = 1 TB = 12 grams protein). Thanks to roseacre farms.
    - mangoes, bananas, apples, oranges, raisins, ... you get the picture.

    I also bought an entire deer recently for merely the processing fees from a local butcher. Fantastic stuff - I got a HUGE box of meat for only $100. It has to be 30 pounds or more.

    As you can see, none of this stuff is pricey, most of it is under $2/pound. And some less than $1 per pound.

    I've been on it for only a month, have lost 10 pounds, which is nice but the way that I FEEL now is great. I have constant energy all day long and never feel tired anymore. Now I'm psyched up to start exercising. And I've been cheating more than I should also. Now I'm going to try and be more strict and will toss out all that nasty stuff left over from my superbowl party.

    My girlfriend has been on it for 2 months along with crossfit training and she lost 20 pounds in 2 months and is looking so much more tone that I'm amazed. She is constantly getting told how great she looks at work. I better get my butt in gear just to make sure that I can keep up with her ... :-)

    Good luck!

    Jeff

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    Originally Posted by mivi320 View Post
    edit: the evolutionary discordance of grains write up was very interesting...I am still under the impression that paleo focuses on the evolution of foods rather their objective food components and properties.
    I think the core reasoning for the paleo diet is that we can't trust nutritional science. We don't really KNOW anything. At one point good authority said that dietary fat was unhealthy and you could eat as many carbs as you wanted. The government food pyramid is highly flawed. If we can't trust science or the establishment on sound nutritional advice, the safest option is to go back to basics and eat a traditional diet that our pre-agricultural ancestors would have.

    If their physiology evolved on that diet, then our physiologies will probably function well on it too. You wouldn't criticize the diet of any other animal in nature -- you wouldn't approach a wolf and say, "I think you're eating too much saturated fat you'll clog your arteries"" -- so why would you criticize the diet of a paleolithic human? And if our physiologies are the same, then a paleolithic human's diet is also the best diet for us too.

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    MAC,

    You hit the nail HEAD ON!

    >> I think the core reasoning for the paleo diet is that we can't trust nutritional science.

    Applause!!! Absolutely! It's well-established that much of what the government backs is whatever special interest groups has the most effective financing, etc. It's all business, and not science. That's why EVERYTHING is a Disease now. Once something is a disease, then only a true "medical professional" is qualified to administer to it and therefore prescribe drugs = $$$ for everyone.

    I believe the opposite - that if we give our bodies what they need to be in balance that we will be healthy.

    >> We don't really KNOW anything.

    True that! Isn't it like every week that someone is publishing "We were wrong about X, but here's the real deal on it!" But we sure do think that we know things, eh? :-)


    >> At one point good authority said that dietary fat was unhealthy and you could eat as many carbs as you wanted. The government food pyramid is highly flawed. If we can't trust science or the establishment on sound nutritional advice, the safest option is to go back to basics and eat a traditional diet that our pre-agricultural ancestors would have.

    (sound of more clapping!)


    >> You wouldn't criticize the diet of any other animal in nature -- you wouldn't approach a wolf and say, "I think you're eating too much saturated fat you'll clog your arteries"

    LOL!

    >> So why would you criticize the diet of a paleolithic human? And if our physiologies are the same, then a paleolithic human's diet is also the best diet for us too.


    Final round of applause!

    Jeff

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    Originally Posted by mac520 View Post
    I think the core reasoning for the paleo diet is that we can't trust nutritional science. We don't really KNOW anything. At one point good authority said that dietary fat was unhealthy and you could eat as many carbs as you wanted. The government food pyramid is highly flawed. If we can't trust science or the establishment on sound nutritional advice, the safest option is to go back to basics and eat a traditional diet that our pre-agricultural ancestors would have.

    If their physiology evolved on that diet, then our physiologies will probably function well on it too. You wouldn't criticize the diet of any other animal in nature -- you wouldn't approach a wolf and say, "I think you're eating too much saturated fat you'll clog your arteries"" -- so why would you criticize the diet of a paleolithic human? And if our physiologies are the same, then a paleolithic human's diet is also the best diet for us too.
    I'd say that paleo is based on nutritional science, and that the big problem with current mainstream nutritional concepts is that they were based on assumptions, since disproven by science.
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......

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    3 words

    paleo cream-puffs
    "Hard work dosent go unseen, unless hard work isnt present"





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    Originally Posted by mac520 View Post
    If we can't trust science or the establishment on sound nutritional advice, the safest option is to go back to basics and eat a traditional diet that our pre-agricultural ancestors would have.
    So you are saying that the science establishment is not trustworthy,yet you are somehow convinced that the Paleo promoters are trustworthy?

    If their physiology evolved on that diet, then our physiologies will probably function well on it too. You wouldn't criticize the diet of any other animal in nature -- you wouldn't approach a wolf and say, "I think you're eating too much saturated fat you'll clog your arteries"" -- so why would you criticize the diet of a paleolithic human? And if our physiologies are the same, then a paleolithic human's diet is also the best diet for us too.
    The reason that it would be pointless to warn a wild wolf of the dangers of saturated fat is because 1) wolves don't understand our language and 2) because there is not an endless supply of food in the wild available at all times like there is for humans and domesticated animals. Domesticated animals do get sick from over consumption and low quality food.

    Paleolithic man wasn't much different from the wolf. He hunted and foraged what he could find and likely went days at a time between big meals. There wasn't enough of a food supply for Paleo man to sprout bitch tits and a fat gut and that wasn't because bread and pasta weren't around, it was because he walked and ran all day to get his food.

    I'll tell you what... I'll bet anything that if you eat the Standard American Diet and adopt a lifestyle like that of Paleolithic man that you will be every bit as lean and strong as he allegedly was.
    Last edited by Scott~; 02-19-2010 at 11:22 AM.

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