Question on making muscles grow

[dutter]

like others have said..longer rest in between sets. when i lift for power i take as long as needed to recover in between sets so im at full strenght. i also dont waste energy repping out with lighter weights on my first few sets, i just do what is needed to get the joints ready for the heavy stuff. i want to save my fuel for the ones that count. i save the higher reps for isolation type lifts. (thats what works for me)

power=strenght=size

[Mulewhipper]

YOU MUST CONNECT WITH YOURSELF!!!

THAT, you CAN do every workout, no matter how much weight you lift, or how many reps you do.

This...IMHO, is so important and what I work hard for. I'm getting there, thank you Miyagi :-)

[BrotherWolf]

let me take this in another direction: if this is your goal, you WILL fail!

your body is not designed to make continual progress in a straight linear fashion....

Sure it is .. as a novice his body can do just that , linear progression is the basis of Rippetoe's starting strength, texas method or Bill Starr 5x5
but you have to train smartly not just take everything to failure .

[BrotherWolf]

so , you see, WE AGREE: progressive progress, inevitably MUST be made...but there are many of us here who have worked out a good many years: if we were able to increase weight and reps EVERY SINGLE WEEK, we would all be benching several thousand pounds for high reps! LOL....

That is true but you have to reach your genetic limit first , and for a novice or intermediate lifter it could be several years before it gets to that point, after you reach that genetic limitation further progress might not come at all unless you change programming

[mitch9518]

A) This is why I take a cruise every 12 weeks or so for about 10-14 days, to let my CNS recoup, and then get back to beating the logbook.

B) Fear of injury is another copout. I never said push heavy using ****ty form and throw caution to the wind. I've been banging away for 11 years and have not had one serious injury along the way (knock on wood). I lift heavy, but smart. On my heaviest lifts, I may be wrapped up like a mummy!


Lastly, I'm in the Tifflex and MM camp on rest between sets....rest as long as you need to push to failure again. It may be 5 minutes before I go from my heaviest set of squats to my ending 20 rep set. It takes that long for me to catch my breath again! lol Cutting rest between sets is not a mass building idea. I lift to grow, not for cardio.

Thank you

[IronCharles]

I'm wondering, if in That set, you missed your goal, should you reduce the weight on the next set to hit i?, (I'm going for mass,) or keep that weight the same, and go for the weight I had planned on, and just do the lower reps...

Why limit yourself? Do one one day, and another the next time! Drop sets are a useful tool, and so are heavy sets with lower reps. The key is to keep working, if you have energy left. The worst thing you can do is just quit, and say "I can't do my regular set, so I'll just skip it." Don't teach yourself that it's ok to give up!

The best gains are made when your tired and your body is spent, and your muscles are forced to do that last little bit of work. So many leave the gym after a "refreshing" workout, and their bodies are like, "Ho hum, typical workout, nothing damaged (muscle wise), no worries." But the guy that sticks around, forces himself to do those last few killer sets, has to reach deep to find the strength.... that guy's body is starting to panic (figuratively) and say, "Oh ****, I'm getting overwhelemd here! I need to start fixing this damage, recruit some new muscle fibers, synthesize some protein, improve my cardiovascular efficiency....." and so forth.

Be that guy. Don't leave anything in the gym! You're at war with the weights, and you should feel like you've been in a serious battle when you leave.

[mitch9518]

Why limit yourself? Do one one day, and another the next time! Drop sets are a useful tool, and so are heavy sets with lower reps. The key is to keep working, if you have energy left. The worst thing you can do is just quit, and say "I can't do my regular set, so I'll just skip it." Don't teach yourself that it's ok to give up!

The best gains are made when your tired and your body is spent, and your muscles are forced to do that last little bit of work. So many leave the gym after a "refreshing" workout, and their bodies are like, "Ho hum, typical workout, nothing damaged (muscle wise), no worries." But the guy that sticks around, forces himself to do those last few killer sets, has to reach deep to find the strength.... that guy's body is starting to panic (figuratively) and say, "Oh ****, I'm getting overwhelemd here! I need to start fixing this damage, recruit some new muscle fibers, synthesize some protein, improve my cardiovascular efficiency....." and so forth.

Be that guy. Don't leave anything in the gym! You're at war with the weights, and you should feel like you've been in a serious battle when you leave.

Just to clear this up, I did finish my sets, but they were are at a lower rep count. I simply didn't have it on that excersize.

I'm wondering, if I would have dropped the weights, and did THAT to failure, or almost failure, if that would have been better than doing the orginal set of weights at a lower rep count, or it just didn't matter. Either way, it was a hard workout.

[JOHN GARGANI]

That is true but you have to reach your genetic limit first , and for a novice or intermediate lifter it could be several years before it gets to that point, after you reach that genetic limitation further progress might not come at all unless you change programming

yes, But, Wolfie: even a novice or intermediate does not make weekly gains for several YEARS!!!

we see posts on here all the time: I was going up in weight for this many months, or that many months and now I am stuck.......


Do you realize: if a newbie only raised his bench press 5 little pounds every week, after 2 years, he'd be benching 500 pounds!!!!


it just ain't gonna happen, bro, you know that........

newbies can make outstanding gains: FOR A TIME, but they will not sustain the pace for a year or two...there will be bumps along the way....

just the way it happens.....

I am not saying that you SHOULDN'T aim for raising weight every workout, but it physiologically cannot happen on a yearly constant basis no matter what phase of training you are in.


even Genetic limits are relative: your "genetic limit", at, say 150 pounds of bodyweight is less than your genetic limit at 200 pounds of bodyweight and so forth......


When I first started lifting and I was 160 pounds, there WAS a limit to how much I could bench at that bodyweight, but when I weighed 200 pounds, it was a different limit, because I was a different animal at that point.

regardless: going all the way back to my first entry into this argument, the answer lies in HOW you do things, I mentioned CONNECTING with yourself.....if someone thinks that they will be as big as how much weight they lift, they might be in for a surprise....assuming they sacrifice form, mind muscle connection, and intensity along the way just to satisfy some silly log book where they insist on constantly raising the weight.

[JOHN GARGANI]

BTW: these intelligent threads where people challenge each other's thinking processes are always the best....I love these kind of threads.....especially with the kind of regulars that are posting in it......

OP: you are reaping the benefits of some good stuff here.....

[JOHN GARGANI]

But the guy that sticks around, forces himself to do those last few killer sets, has to reach deep to find the strength.... that guy's body is starting to panic (figuratively) and say, "Oh ****, I'm getting overwhelemd here! I need to start fixing this damage, recruit some new muscle fibers, synthesize some protein, improve my cardiovascular efficiency....." and so forth.

Charlie, you are a pisser! but that is why you have made such incredible progress.....

[mitch9518]

BTW: these intelligent threads where people challenge each other's thinking processes are always the best....I love these kind of threads.....especially with the kind of regulars that are posting in it......

OP: you are reaping the benefits of some good stuff here.....

You right on that!

[Most Muscular]

I do outlift most men.

Thank you.

whoa, so sorry!

Brains, build, and beauty!

nuff said...

[BrotherWolf]

yes, But, Wolfie: even a novice or intermediate does not make weekly gains for several YEARS!!!

I mostly agree but I was taking into into account deloads , plateaus, life that gets in the way etc..

one step forward to step back type of thing but you can still go forward for many years thought at a different rate..
if that wasn't the case we would just quit once we reach the 1st serious plateau .. but of course you can't go on forever, woud be nice though

[maggioracing]

This is a good topic. I'm just back into working out again. Been since august. And I have asked myself the same thing, time and time again.
What these guys are saying is on target. I am FINALLY kicking myself for understanding now how the body responds to lifting. I've tried working out in the past and aways discouraged after about 1 yr time. Quit after that. Some gains made, but not to my liking.
Now my new approach is muscle contraction more than the weight itself. I know I'm stating something that has been said before over the yrs in books, but I finally see what people are talking about. The goal is to change the muscle shape and get bigger. But checking your ego at the door is the hardest part. lol.
This was taken 12/31/2009. The girl I was dating wanted a pic of me. lol.
Did shoulders,chest,triceps. I can only bench 170 x 8 quality reps, dumbell press 50lbs x 8 quality reps, blah,blah,blah. You get the idea.
I know it's finally working b/c the girls are work; I'm an ER nurse are constantly telling me "Wow I'm seeing progress". Constantly grabbing my arms, chest, and back. It's a nice feeling. lol. I was pushing a gurney the other day, and a resp. therapist and a nurse both said "wow, you back looks like a 'V'" and "that's my fav. body part on a guy" as she grabbed my lat. lol.
Mitch, set your goal to go quality reps and don't worry about how much you can lift. Again, I can't believe I was cheating this entire time, feeling sore, 2 hrs after a work out. Overtraining like a mother. I do 2-3 exercises per body part, compound exercies only. It works.


This was taken 1/26/10.



Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I know it's kinda long. lol.
-Frank.

[mitch9518]

This is a good topic. I'm just back into working out again. Been since august. And I have asked myself the same thing, time and time again.
What these guys are saying is on target. I am FINALLY kicking myself for understanding now how the body responds to lifting. I've tried working out in the past and aways discouraged after about 1 yr time. Quit after that. Some gains made, but not to my liking.
Now my new approach is muscle contraction more than the weight itself. I know I'm stating something that has been said before over the yrs in books, but I finally see what people are talking about. The goal is to change the muscle shape and get bigger. But checking your ego at the door is the hardest part. lol.
This was taken 12/31/2009. The girl I was dating wanted a pic of me. lol.
Did shoulders,chest,triceps. I can only bench 170 x 8 quality reps, dumbell press 50lbs x 8 quality reps, blah,blah,blah. You get the idea.
I know it's finally working b/c the girls are work; I'm an ER nurse are constantly telling me "Wow I'm seeing progress". Constantly grabbing my arms, chest, and back. It's a nice feeling. lol. I was pushing a gurney the other day, and a resp. therapist and a nurse both said "wow, you back looks like a 'V'" and "that's my fav. body part on a guy" as she grabbed my lat. lol.
Mitch, set your goal to go quality reps and don't worry about how much you can lift. Again, I can't believe I was cheating this entire time, feeling sore, 2 hrs after a work out. Overtraining like a mother. I do 2-3 exercises per body part, compound exercies only. It works.


This was taken 1/26/10.



Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I know it's kinda long. lol.
-Frank.

Great stuff though. Thanks for the comments.

[mitch9518]

Shot in the dark: Not enough recovery time. Add another day between chest wo, see if you reach our goal.

I changed my workout to see if this will help.

Thanks.

[VDeuce]

I changed my workout to see if this will help.

Thanks.

Mitch,

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you - trying to push more weight, but often only getting 4 or 5 reps and then deciding whether do drop the weight down.

After reading this thread, what I am gathering is that all these ways are useful: high weight/low reps, low weight/high reps, but at different times and that perhaps we need to learn to listen to our bodies more.

In retrospect, I think I am guilty of trying to force myself into too much weight progress too fast. I think that I might start dropping weight on the last set if needed, but then perhaps a couple weeks later, I might go for a few heavy sets with low reps to keep things changed up.

I think at this point for me, it needs to be quality over quantity right now...

As an example, last night I did squats, but I only did 155 X 5 reps before I tired out. I did that 2 sets and my low back was hurting. Technique wrong? Perhaps. Too much weight? Probably, but I had done more before and was too stubborn to back off. So instead of doing what I should have and dropping, I gave up on the squats (somewhat due to low back pain) and did leg presses.

I think had I just gone for a lower weight I would have upped the reps, did more sets and possibly avoided low back pain...

Thanks to the experienced guys helping out with advice - us newbies appreciate it!

[mitch9518]

Mitch,

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you - trying to push more weight, but often only getting 4 or 5 reps and then deciding whether do drop the weight down.

After reading this thread, what I am gathering is that all these ways are useful: high weight/low reps, low weight/high reps, but at different times and that perhaps we need to learn to listen to our bodies more.

In retrospect, I think I am guilty of trying to force myself into too much weight progress too fast. I think that I might start dropping weight on the last set if needed, but then perhaps a couple weeks later, I might go for a few heavy sets with low reps to keep things changed up.

I think at this point for me, it needs to be quality over quantity right now...

As an example, last night I did squats, but I only did 155 X 5 reps before I tired out. I did that 2 sets and my low back was hurting. Technique wrong? Perhaps. Too much weight? Probably, but I had done more before and was too stubborn to back off. So instead of doing what I should have and dropping, I gave up on the squats (somewhat due to low back pain) and did leg presses.

I think had I just gone for a lower weight I would have upped the reps, did more sets and possibly avoided low back pain...

Thanks to the experienced guys helping out with advice - us newbies appreciate it!

I second that!

[mitch9518]

This is a good topic. I'm just back into working out again. Been since august. And I have asked myself the same thing, time and time again.
What these guys are saying is on target. I am FINALLY kicking myself for understanding now how the body responds to lifting. I've tried working out in the past and aways discouraged after about 1 yr time. Quit after that. Some gains made, but not to my liking.
Now my new approach is muscle contraction more than the weight itself. I know I'm stating something that has been said before over the yrs in books, but I finally see what people are talking about. The goal is to change the muscle shape and get bigger. But checking your ego at the door is the hardest part. lol.
This was taken 12/31/2009. The girl I was dating wanted a pic of me. lol.
Did shoulders,chest,triceps. I can only bench 170 x 8 quality reps, dumbell press 50lbs x 8 quality reps, blah,blah,blah. You get the idea.
I know it's finally working b/c the girls are work; I'm an ER nurse are constantly telling me "Wow I'm seeing progress". Constantly grabbing my arms, chest, and back. It's a nice feeling. lol. I was pushing a gurney the other day, and a resp. therapist and a nurse both said "wow, you back looks like a 'V'" and "that's my fav. body part on a guy" as she grabbed my lat. lol.
Mitch, set your goal to go quality reps and don't worry about how much you can lift. Again, I can't believe I was cheating this entire time, feeling sore, 2 hrs after a work out. Overtraining like a mother. I do 2-3 exercises per body part, compound exercies only. It works.


This was taken 1/26/10.



Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I know it's kinda long. lol.
-Frank.

NO prob. You said some good stuff here.