Question on making muscles grow

[mitch9518]

I was working chestand back this morning, and for chest Did 2 w/ups, then did four sets pyramiding up, and going almost to failure on level bench. I then did three sets incline bench (going almost to failure), followed by three sets decline bench (almost to failure). One minute rest between each set.

My chest was pretty tired and the rep count dropped dramatically on the last set of each excersize.

Should I have reduced the weight to get my reps in the six to eight range, as soon as I found out I had to drop the reps, or was ok. doing them to almost failure at range of four to five?

Looking to get some size.

[ironwill2008]

You can use just about any set/rep scheme you prefer. Pick one, and stick with it, working on adding weight and/or reps from week-to week.

[gun-G]

You can use just about any set/rep scheme you prefer. Pick one, and stick with it, working on adding weight and/or reps from week-to week.

if it were me, next Ch W/O i would add more pounds to set 1+2, keep third set at current weight w goal of hitting higher rep range

[mitch9518]

You can use just about any set/rep scheme you prefer. Pick one, and stick with it, working on adding weight and/or reps from week-to week.

I understand that. I'm wondering, if in That set, you missed your goal, should you reduce the weight on the next set to hit i?, (I'm going for mass,) or keep that weight the same, and go for the weight I had planned on, and just do the lower reps. This is a set that I was expecting to hit.. I'm looking to hit a certain number, and increase the weights weekly. The muscles were tired, and didn't cooperate on hitting my set number.

Thanks! I hope this is clearer.

[gun-G]

I understand that. I'm wondering, if in That set, you missed your goal, should you reduce the weight on the next set to hit i?, (I'm going for mass,) or keep that weight the same, and go for the weight I had planned on, and just do the lower reps. This is a set that I was expecting to hit.. I'm looking to hit a certain number, and increase the weights weekly. The muscles were tired, and didn't cooperate on hitting my set number.

Thanks! I hope this is clearer.

Shot in the dark: Not enough recovery time. Add another day between chest wo, see if you reach our goal.

[mitch9518]

Shot in the dark: Not enough recovery time. Add another day between chest wo, see if you reach our goal.

Last work chest last Wednesday, I was feeling good today. I had a one minute rest between sets, maybe should have increased that time on the decline?

[Tifflex]

Last work chest last Wednesday, I was feeling good today. I had a one minute rest between sets, maybe should have increased that time on the decline?

You should rest longer between sets to give your muscles time to recover.

Weightlifting is not an endurance contest.

[kneedragger85]

Make each goal 30 reps. You'll fall short a lot but you'll never quit early. That is what is going to make you stronger. When I first started out self-preservation and fear of failure resulted in me working at 80% capacity and believing I was pushing the envelope. When I quit counting and just went until I couldn't anymore I really made some progress.

Mark

[Fifty+]

I understand that. I'm wondering, if in That set, you missed your goal, should you reduce the weight on the next set to hit i?, (I'm going for mass,) or keep that weight the same, and go for the weight I had planned on, and just do the lower reps. This is a set that I was expecting to hit.. I'm looking to hit a certain number, and increase the weights weekly. The muscles were tired, and didn't cooperate on hitting my set number.

Thanks! I hope this is clearer.

You can not make up for a previous set. If you use a match to light 4 candles and the match burns out after the 3rd. candle, you're done. If all your workouts are ending in this manner you might want to re-evaluate your rep and set scheme. I quote: More is not better...better is better..

[gun-G]

Last work chest last Wednesday, I was feeling good today. I had a one minute rest between sets, maybe should have increased that time on the decline?

Mitch your chest doesn't have a calendar..Not enough rest, not enough energy stores (nutrition), not enough mental focus (happens to all...pretty girl walks by, stress at home, first two sets a breeze, so next set will b a walk in the park...) Don't forget, too...maybe you kicked ass, broke all the records etc, you need recovery from THAT workout too. If you can figure out what it is that sucked that steam from you that you can make correct adjustment..

You can not make up for a previous set. If you use a match to light 4 candles and the match burns out after the 3rd. candle, you're done. If all your workouts are ending in this manner you might want to re-evaluate your rep and set scheme. I quote: More is not better...better is better..

Good analogy!

[mitch9518]

Mitch your chest doesn't have a calendar..Not enough rest, not enough energy stores (nutrition), not enough mental focus (happens to all...pretty girl walks by, stress at home, first two sets a breeze, so next set will b a walk in the park...) Don't forget, too...maybe you kicked ass, broke all the records etc, you need recovery from THAT workout too. If you can figure out what it is that sucked that steam from you that you can make correct adjustment..


Good analogy!

I had a better than normal workout last Wednesday, I added two extra sets, thinking I would recover in time for today. That could be it. Not worried about it, I posted this because I didn't know what would be the way to go. Just wanted to know if I should of dropped the weight to get the count back up, or say the heck with it, keep the weights the same, even with lower reps.

[JOHN GARGANI]

This is a set that I was expecting to hit.. I'm looking to hit a certain number, and increase the weights weekly. The muscles were tired, and didn't cooperate on hitting my set number.

let me take this in another direction: if this is your goal, you WILL fail!

your body is not designed to make continual progress in a straight linear fashion....

there will be times when you jump up a bit, times when you maintain, and times when you struggle..

OVERALL: in the long run, you are looking to go up, but looking to go up every single week is unrealistic and self defeating.


What you SHOULD be concentrating on, is the feeling that you get in the muscle when you work out.

YOU MUST CONNECT WITH YOURSELF!!!

THAT, you CAN do every workout, no matter how much weight you lift, or how many reps you do.

[Mr. Someday]

let me take this in another direction: if this is your goal, you WILL fail!

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, that should be everyone's goal....to either add more weight, reps or both the next time through. I allow myself one failure, after that I drop the exercise and put something else in and begin again. Clearly one will not work their way up to 2,000 pound squats for 10 reps, but allowing yourself to hang around the same workout for a few weeks and chalking it up as "well, sometimes I'll be the same and sometimes I'll struggle" is just a copout.

[mitch9518]

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, that should be everyone's goal....to either add more weight, reps or both the next time through. I allow myself one failure, after that I drop the exercise and put something else in and begin again. Clearly one will not work their way up to 2,000 pound squats for 10 reps, but allowing yourself to hang around the same workout for a few weeks and chalking it up as "well, sometimes I'll be the same and sometimes I'll struggle" is just a copout.

Quote "Should I have reduced the weight to get my reps in the six to eight range, as soon as I found out I had to drop the reps, or was ok. doing them to almost failure at range of four to five?"

The question is this^^^. I may have been tired from last week, or too much over the weekend, I can handle it. I was just wondering which way you would go, drop the weight to get the number of reps I'd planned, or accept it, do the number of sets I had scheduled, and try it again next time.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, that should be everyone's goal....to either add more weight, reps or both the next time through. I allow myself one failure, after that I drop the exercise and put something else in and begin again. Clearly one will not work their way up to 2,000 pound squats for 10 reps, but allowing yourself to hang around the same workout for a few weeks and chalking it up as "well, sometimes I'll be the same and sometimes I'll struggle" is just a copout.

Someday my friend: I am surprised that you would just take that one sentence out of context....

within the same thread, I said:

OVERALL: in the long run, you are looking to go up

so , you see, WE AGREE: progressive progress, inevitably MUST be made...but there are many of us here who have worked out a good many years: if we were able to increase weight and reps EVERY SINGLE WEEK, we would all be benching several thousand pounds for high reps! LOL....

[Fifty+]

Quote "Should I have reduced the weight to get my reps in the six to eight range, as soon as I found out I had to drop the reps, or was ok. doing them to almost failure at range of four to five?"

The question is this^^^. I may have been tired from last week, or too much over the weekend, I can handle it. I was just wondering which way you would go, drop the weight to get the number of reps I'd planned, or accept it, do the number of sets I had scheduled, and try it again next time.

I don't understand that comment. Either you are too tired or you are not. I gathered from your post, you could not handle it. The majority of us on this forum are still learning about ourselves. How much can we push and for how long. When do we start beating a dead horse. Simply moving heavy weight does not build mass and moving weight only to the tune of a rep and set scheme, also falls short. Finding your own happy median takes time and understanding. JOHN hit it on the head. FEEL what you are doing. Once you connect with the Mind Link, the work begins to dictate one's own rep and set scheme. Working beyond it can be counter productive.

[Korr]

Last work chest last Wednesday, I was feeling good today. I had a one minute rest between sets, maybe should have increased that time on the decline?

That's probably the problem right there. Give yourself more time between sets, 2-3 mins is ideal but not mandatory. If you need 4-5 mins, then do it. Also rest/pause methods could help you, if you are really struggling on your last sets.

The other problem is you might have started with too heavy of a weight too soon. The idea of progression is to start out light. Generally around 75-80% of max, then slowly add in weight, sets, or reps every week. That way the body has time to adapt, and you won't stall out quickly.

[gun-G]

so , you see, WE AGREE: progressive progress, inevitably MUST be made...but there are many of us here who have worked out a good many years: if we were able to increase weight and reps EVERY SINGLE WEEK, we would all be benching several thousand pounds for high reps! LOL....

John, good stuff of course.

let me throw this wrench into the works:

Most of us can add progress through wt/reps week after week til

A) CNS can't keep up (OVERTRAINING)

B)on the road to the fabled 2000lb squat we get INJURED. ( Usually the "weakest link..our most susceptible body part)

[JOHN GARGANI]

John, good stuff of course.

let me throw this wrench into the works:

Most of us can add progress through wt/reps week after week til

A) CNS can't keep up (OVERTRAINING)

B)on the road to the fabled 2000lb squat we get INJURED. ( Usually the "weakest link..our most susceptible body part)

exactly, but one way or the other, we cannot be endlessly progressive, in terms of weight and reps, therefore, to make that the goal is ultimately failing.

There are many ways to up the intensity level when you are stuck at a weight: using Time as an intensity multiplier, for example: doing the workout in progressively less time....


now, someone might say: "But if I take shorter rests, I won't be able to lift more weight"

and I say: YOU ARE PLATEAUED ANYWAY!!!!

so rather than agonize, start using time: if your rest is 2 minutes, make it 1 1/2....when you can do all the weight and reps with that, reduce it to a minute and so on....

it is still a form of progression when you are stuck at a certain amount of weight and reps....

Then you could start supersetting and compound setting....

There are many ways to skin a cat, and everyone WILL need them at some point, because adding weight is a finite endeavor....

[gun-G]

Yup, another tactic is when my body says "NO MORE GROW" i give an understanding "OK" and strip a couple lbs of fat off, when that stagnates..start increasing the lbs again w more food.

Years ago I was in on the ground floor of Pete Sisco and John Littles "Power Factor Training"...heavy emphasis on localized muscle recovery vs systemic recovery. The entire premise was based on wt/reps/time at it's use in monitoring progressive overload. Check it out..Great stuff!

[Most Muscular]

You should rest longer between sets to give your muscles time to recover.

Weightlifting is not an endurance contest.

what he said...

nuff said....

[dbx]

what she said...

nuff said....

*fixed*

[Tifflex]

what he said...

nuff said....

I do outlift most men.

*fixed*

Thank you.

[beachguy498]

I like to pyramid down and add weight as the reps go down and it works for me. I give it a 2-minute rest between sets. I make sure I get something in my belly before I start, even a quick serving of oatmeal helps.

BG

[mitch9518]

I like to pyramid down and add weight as the reps go down and it works for me. I give it a 2-minute rest between sets. I make sure I get something in my belly before I start, even a quick serving of oatmeal helps.

BG

Great info guys. Appreciate it!

[Mr. Someday]

John, good stuff of course.

let me throw this wrench into the works:

Most of us can add progress through wt/reps week after week til

A) CNS can't keep up (OVERTRAINING)

B)on the road to the fabled 2000lb squat we get INJURED. ( Usually the "weakest link..our most susceptible body part)

A) This is why I take a cruise every 12 weeks or so for about 10-14 days, to let my CNS recoup, and then get back to beating the logbook.

B) Fear of injury is another copout. I never said push heavy using ****ty form and throw caution to the wind. I've been banging away for 11 years and have not had one serious injury along the way (knock on wood). I lift heavy, but smart. On my heaviest lifts, I may be wrapped up like a mummy!


Lastly, I'm in the Tifflex and MM camp on rest between sets....rest as long as you need to push to failure again. It may be 5 minutes before I go from my heaviest set of squats to my ending 20 rep set. It takes that long for me to catch my breath again! lol Cutting rest between sets is not a mass building idea. I lift to grow, not for cardio.

[mitch9518]

A) This is why I take a cruise every 12 weeks or so for about 10-14 days, to let my CNS recoup, and then get back to beating the logbook.

B) Fear of injury is another copout. I never said push heavy using ****ty form and throw caution to the wind. I've been banging away for 11 years and have not had one serious injury along the way (knock on wood). I lift heavy, but smart. On my heaviest lifts, I may be wrapped up like a mummy!


Lastly, I'm in the Tifflex and MM camp on rest between sets....rest as long as you need to push to failure again. It may be 5 minutes before I go from my heaviest set of squats to my ending 20 rep set. It takes that long for me to catch my breath again! lol Cutting rest between sets is not a mass building idea. I lift to grow, not for cardio.

Thank you

[Marius_Ursus]

I was working chestand back this morning, and for chest Did 2 w/ups, then did four sets pyramiding up, and going almost to failure on level bench. I then did three sets incline bench (going almost to failure), followed by three sets decline bench (almost to failure). One minute rest between each set.

I reelize I'm onlee a illiterate ber wif no fumbs, but what does "Did 2 w/ups" mean?

[bookeem]

did 2 warm up sets

[Marius_Ursus]

did 2 warm up sets

Thanks. I kept reading it as "with ups" and had no idea what kind of exercise a "with up" was. LOL