finally taking your advice re: calories...

[gilly88]

So, I've been hovering around the boards for months now. I've asked some questions, taking some advice to a point but hoenstly I;ve been stubborn.
I need only to lose about 10lb (body recomp really) - i'm 22yo, 125lb, about 23-4%bf. basically want to lose inches and lower BF.
people have told me to:
- drop down to two 20 min sessions of HIIT per week
- increase calories from where they are (1500-1600/day)
- lift heavy weights (including legs, which i'm scared of!) 4 x week

So, my new plan is this.
- Up calories by 100/week. ie beginning next week i'll eat steadily 1600 (have been closer to 1500 last couple months). then week after that, 1700 etc. hoping to NOT see any weight gain but see the inches go. If i put on weight, will lower by 100 and wait until that weight goes again, then try upping again. people have suggested this is the way to go
- train hard with a Lower, Upper, Cardio, Lower, Upper, Cardio 6 day week. (still not sure about sets and reps though - any suggestions?)
- stop being so stubborn and take the advice of the good people on here!

Any thoughts? should i stick with the 45-35-20 p-f-c ratio i do now?

THANKS, and apologies its taken me so long to take your kind advice. i'm on my way!

EDIT: at the moment, my workout plan per week is
3 days of circuit weights (medium weight) with skipping in between
1 spin
1 HIIT
2 pilates

[gilly88]

anyone!?!? id really appreciate the help!

[aznprincess]

how tall are you?

[gilly88]

how tall are you?

woops, sorry! 5'6!

[nunu713]

At 5'6, 125lbs, losing 10 pounds is going to be very difficult - you're already at the low end for your height.

[gilly88]

At 5'6, 125lbs, losing 10 pounds is going to be very difficult - you're already at the low end for your height.

mmmm yeah - i know. but at the same time, i'm not comfortable at this weight and was much happier when i was 5-10lb lighter. i know the difference b/w 'weight' and 'fat' and its only fat im looking to lose. that said i dont really care if the scale stays the same as long as i lose inches.

as difficult as u say nunu, do u think its possible? and how? is my plan sufficient?

thanks!

[Amanda76]

Was the advice you were given before to focus on lean mass gain before leaning up further? Or have you been eating at a deficit for a long time already?

[gilly88]

Was the advice you were given before to focus on lean mass gain before leaning up further? Or have you been eating at a deficit for a long time already?

no, i've been eating at a defecit for a long time. i mean, i have NEVER in my life gone over 1600/day on average (ie. i calorie cycled for a while). and i've only been doing 1600 for about ten months - before that was around 1400-1500. so i've been eating less than i potentially should, for a long time.

the advice i've been previously given was more to up calories to see fat loss - i'm not looking to compete or attian a bodybuilding shape or anything, just lose inches. and people have said that 1600/day won't be enough for me, which is really the advice i'm trying to take.

on the other hand, many people seem to think 'starvation mode' is a myth and that if im eating 1600 and not losing, its too much.... but i dont want to live on less!!

see? im confused!! but i want to do the right thing...

[Amanda76]

no, i've been eating at a defecit for a long time. i mean, i have NEVER in my life gone over 1600/day on average (ie. i calorie cycled for a while). and i've only been doing 1600 for about ten months - before that was around 1400-1500. so i've been eating less than i potentially should, for a long time.

the advice i've been previously given was more to up calories to see fat loss - i'm not looking to compete or attian a bodybuilding shape or anything, just lose inches. and people have said that 1600/day won't be enough for me, which is really the advice i'm trying to take.

on the other hand, many people seem to think 'starvation mode' is a myth and that if im eating 1600 and not losing, its too much.... but i dont want to live on less!!

see? im confused!! but i want to do the right thing...

Gotcha...what you need to do is get your calories back up to maintenance for a month or two to let your body "heal" from the long-time calorie deficit, making sure to get plenty of every macronutrient and a good variety of food. During this time you might put on a tiny bit of lean mass (no you're not going to look like a bodybuilder) and experience a bit of fluctuation in weight but it won't be anything major unless you start eating things that make you hold water (no big deal...that's not a sign cals need to go down) or eating above maintainance by including cheats you may have been able to get away with when eating 1,400 calories. And yes, it should level out relatively quickly.

If you're working out hard more days of the week than not, you should be able to maintain at 2,100 -ish. Will be fine to work your way up to that to avoid any side effects from eating more food than you're accustomed to, but realize you'll have to hang out there for several weeks after making it there. Once you've managed that, if you continue working hard in the gym, cutting back down to 1,600 calories (again, making sure you keep good nutrition coming in) will allow you to continue on to your goal weight.

I personally would get your carbs up (20%, right? At this forum macros normally get listed things in the order of protein, carbs and fat, that's why I'm clarifying), to make sure you get the benefit of eating energy-rich complex carbs and a variety of nutrient-rich fruits and veggies. I like basing my nutrition around 40p/30c/30f for myself when I'm maintaining. Gives me plenty of carbohydrate variety without allowing me to get to a point where I want to go overboard.

Your new split looks great! You won't be eating enough or even risk eating too much long enough to worry about your legs actually blowing up with anything more than fluid (temporary), so don't worry about that.

It is my hope that you'll find that you like the way you look at a greater weight that 115. That is working on being underweight for your height.

[gilly88]

Gotcha...what you need to do is get your calories back up to maintenance for a month or two to let your body "heal" from the long-time calorie deficit, making sure to get plenty of every macronutrient and a good variety of food. During this time you might put on a tiny bit of lean mass (no you're not going to look like a bodybuilder) and experience a bit of fluctuation in weight but it won't be anything major unless you start eating things that make you hold water (no big deal...that's not a sign cals need to go down) or eating above maintainance by including cheats you may have been able to get away with when eating 1,400 calories. And yes, it should level out relatively quickly.

If you're working out hard more days of the week than not, you should be able to maintain at 2,100 -ish. Will be fine to work your way up to that to avoid any side effects from eating more food than you're accustomed to, but realize you'll have to hang out there for several weeks after making it there. Once you've managed that, if you continue working hard in the gym, cutting back down to 1,600 calories (again, making sure you keep good nutrition coming in) will allow you to continue on to your goal weight.

I personally would get your carbs up (20%, right? At this forum macros normally get listed things in the order of protein, carbs and fat, that's why I'm clarifying), to make sure you get the benefit of eating energy-rich complex carbs and a variety of nutrient-rich fruits and veggies. I like basing my nutrition around 40p/30c/30f for myself when I'm maintaining. Gives me plenty of carbohydrate variety without allowing me to get to a point where I want to go overboard.

Your new split looks great! You won't be eating enough or even risk eating too much long enough to worry about your legs actually blowing up with anything more than fluid (temporary), so don't worry about that.

It is my hope that you'll find that you like the way you look at a greater weight that 115. That is working on being underweight for your height.

thanks so much, that's a really kind and informative post!
OK, so i will try increasing my cals incrementally and stick to the ratios you outlined. this is a BIG deal for me! I've read other posts on here about women upping calories and still losing weight/not gaining so im hoping i go in the same direction
i will check in - amanda, would you mind if I PM-d you during this time when i am 'upping' if i have any questions about the potential water/mass gain? im sure i'll feel funny about it and need reassurance hah! i just want to be able to check that im on the right track...

thanks!

[FemmeFatale28]

Ive been following this advice as well, and every since Ive upped my calories my scale weight fluctuates down 2, up 2. I dont know how much of a flux is cause for concern, but I too am trying to find real maintainence so I CAN get fat off me. The reason I dont freak out and drop cals is because I have to look around, where the information is coming from and its obvious to me that (most) of these people here know what they are talking about also, I see positive differences in my body as well.

[gilly88]

Ive been following this advice as well, and every since Ive upped my calories my scale weight fluctuates down 2, up 2. I dont know how much of a flux is cause for concern, but I too am trying to find real maintainence so I CAN get fat off me. The reason I dont freak out and drop cals is because I have to look around, where the information is coming from and its obvious to me that (most) of these people here know what they are talking about also, I see positive differences in my body as well.

so would u say it hasnt really worked for you? or it has, cos u havent really gained?
i definitely agree - people here are knowledgeable, passionate, and genuinely want people to succeed. i just hope this works!

[aznprincess]

when i first arrived to this forum, i had been eating 1400 cals/ day for years. they told me to up my cals, cause i was already quite thin for my height and my metabolism had slowed to the point where this was my maintenance.

at first, i was sure i was gaining weight b/c i felt totally bloated and i wasn't used to eating so much food. but after about 4 wks, everything calmed down and i didn't gain any weight at all.

i think that's when i started to trust people's advice and went for a bulk and upped my cals even more and then yes, i started gaining weight but i never got fat. <--- again, other people's advice.

after the holidays, i did start to feel a little fat but that's b/c i was eating WAY over maintenance and drinking all the time.

i took a time out and lost about 5lbs at the beginning of January and stopped feeling fat again, took some progress pictures and even though i'm 10lbs up from when i started... i basically look EXACTLY the same.

in other words, i GAINED weight and i look the same as i did 10lbs lighter. you tell me that's not interesting.

i've also been lifting the sh*t out of myself for 16wks consistently. it works people, it really works.

[gilly88]

when i first arrived to this forum, i had been eating 1400 cals/ day for years. they told me to up my cals, cause i was already quite thin for my height and my metabolism had slowed to the point where this was my maintenance.

at first, i was sure i was gaining weight b/c i felt totally bloated and i wasn't used to eating so much food. but after about 4 wks, everything calmed down and i didn't gain any weight at all.

i think that's when i started to trust people's advice and went for a bulk and upped my cals even more and then yes, i started gaining weight but i never got fat. <--- again, other people's advice.

after the holidays, i did start to feel a little fat but that's b/c i was eating WAY over maintenance and drinking all the time.

i took a time out and lost about 5lbs at the beginning of January and stopped feeling fat again, took some progress pictures and even though i'm 10lbs up from when i started... i basically look EXACTLY the same.

in other words, i GAINED weight and i look the same as i did 10lbs lighter. you tell me that's not interesting.

i've also been lifting the sh*t out of myself for 16wks consistently. it works people, it really works.

wow, ok, that sounds great!
so would you guys advocate doing LESS cardio and MORE weights/HEAVIER weights? i'd love to switch to more weights/less cardio. is 4 lifting days, 2 cardio days enough to lose the inches?

[aznprincess]

i'd say this is the first step in your goal yes. also, eating at maintenance. amanda's post... go with that for now.

[gilly88]

i'd say this is the first step in your goal yes. also, eating at maintenance. amanda's post... go with that for now.

ok thanks guys, will check in. this is super scary! i can't get my head around how eating MORE will make me LOSE inches!

[FemmeFatale28]

ok thanks guys, will check in. this is super scary! i can't get my head around how eating MORE will make me LOSE inches!

I cant say it IS or it is NOT working for me. 3 weeks? Too soon to tell. Heres what I do know :

- I feel better eatting more
- my body LOOKS leaner
- Im getting stronger
- I have new little "knot" on top of my bicep and its too cute So if nothing else during this period where I am taking in alot of food, I am reaping the benefits of muscles and strength all with staying the relative same weight.

[Amanda76]

thanks so much, that's a really kind and informative post!
OK, so i will try increasing my cals incrementally and stick to the ratios you outlined. this is a BIG deal for me! I've read other posts on here about women upping calories and still losing weight/not gaining so im hoping i go in the same direction
i will check in - amanda, would you mind if I PM-d you during this time when i am 'upping' if i have any questions about the potential water/mass gain? im sure i'll feel funny about it and need reassurance hah! i just want to be able to check that im on the right track...

thanks!

You're welcome to pm me.

The difference between women who are losing weight by upping their cals and you is that YOU are already at a good weight for your height and are already eating at what should be at just enough below maintenance to cause change (1,600 calories is the 500 calories below maintnenace that should cause a pound of fat loss a week for people who have enough fat to lose...you will find that it comes off slower and slower the leaner you get, though). You've just been doing it for too long. Women who are upping their cals from 1,200-ish calories to 1,800-ish and are finding themselves losing weight generally have a lot more weight to lose and are still eating at what adds up to a large enough deficit to cause a change in scale weight for them. If they end up having to take it up to maintenance for a while before dropping back down, they won't lose weight until they are actually eating at a deficit (consistently) and their body is producing the hormones it needs to, to be efficient at losing fat comfortably.

You may lose inches as your body composition changes because in addition to eating more, you're lifting heavy weight...but I expect that your experience is going to be more like my own or aznprincesses, where you find that focusing on weighing little just makes you "skinnyfat" and you end up pleasantly surprised that you look leaner at a greater weight. Unless you're very small framed, there's no reason you couldn't be pretty lean at around your current weight, living in a way you don't have to struggle to maintain.

I feel a lot of the problem women have with their weight after their teen years has to do with these diets + activities that encourage lean mass loss. I'm sure you've heard lots of people say they weigh the same as they did in high school but are "fat" now...that body composition change happens over decades as we age (if you don't do anything about it) and is sped up by the eating and activity habits a lot of women take on because they want to be a size 2 instead of a size 4.

when i first arrived to this forum, i had been eating 1400 cals/ day for years. they told me to up my cals, cause i was already quite thin for my height and my metabolism had slowed to the point where this was my maintenance.

at first, i was sure i was gaining weight b/c i felt totally bloated and i wasn't used to eating so much food. but after about 4 wks, everything calmed down and i didn't gain any weight at all.

i think that's when i started to trust people's advice and went for a bulk and upped my cals even more and then yes, i started gaining weight but i never got fat. <--- again, other people's advice.

after the holidays, i did start to feel a little fat but that's b/c i was eating WAY over maintenance and drinking all the time.

i took a time out and lost about 5lbs at the beginning of January and stopped feeling fat again, took some progress pictures and even though i'm 10lbs up from when i started... i basically look EXACTLY the same.

in other words, i GAINED weight and i look the same as i did 10lbs lighter. you tell me that's not interesting.

i've also been lifting the sh*t out of myself for 16wks consistently. it works people, it really works.

I started this at 110 pounds (nearing underweight for someone who is 5'4") and realized I wasn't getting near the definition I should have been for all the work I was putting in. I was running 8-10 miles at least every other day, not eating enough, and didn't have the energy to put into the weight training I also did most days of the week.

I'm pretty sure I don't have the physique gilly wants (I have been working hard to gain muscle for the last several years) but I do have a smaller, tighter waist at 125 pounds than I did at 110. So the scale definitely doesn't tell the whole story!

[inkblue]

I was a cardio bunny and weighed 5 pounds less then I do now and wore a bigger dress size. I could never get results lifting 8-10 pound dumbbells. I had to do the heavy squats and deadlifts before I finally got that belly fat off. I eat at least 2000 calories a day, so I think your 1600 is still rather low. I'm also trying to drop some fat, but I want to keep my weight the same.

[gilly88]

You're welcome to pm me.

The difference between women who are losing weight by upping their cals and you is that YOU are already at a good weight for your height and are already eating at what should be at just enough below maintenance to cause change (1,600 calories is the 500 calories below maintnenace that should cause a pound of fat loss a week for people who have enough fat to lose...you will find that it comes off slower and slower the leaner you get, though). You've just been doing it for too long. Women who are upping their cals from 1,200-ish calories to 1,800-ish and are finding themselves losing weight generally have a lot more weight to lose and are still eating at what adds up to a large enough deficit to cause a change in scale weight for them. If they end up having to take it up to maintenance for a while before dropping back down, they won't lose weight until they are actually eating at a deficit (consistently) and their body is producing the hormones it needs to, to be efficient at losing fat comfortably.

You may lose inches as your body composition changes because in addition to eating more, you're lifting heavy weight...but I expect that your experience is going to be more like my own or aznprincesses, where you find that focusing on weighing little just makes you "skinnyfat" and you end up pleasantly surprised that you look leaner at a greater weight. Unless you're very small framed, there's no reason you couldn't be pretty lean at around your current weight, living in a way you don't have to struggle to maintain.

I feel a lot of the problem women have with their weight after their teen years has to do with these diets + activities that encourage lean mass loss. I'm sure you've heard lots of people say they weigh the same as they did in high school but are "fat" now...that body composition change happens over decades as we age (if you don't do anything about it) and is sped up by the eating and activity habits a lot of women take on because they want to be a size 2 instead of a size 4.



I started this at 110 pounds (nearing underweight for someone who is 5'4") and realized I wasn't getting near the definition I should have been for all the work I was putting in. I was running 8-10 miles at least every other day, not eating enough, and didn't have the energy to put into the weight training I also did most days of the week.

I'm pretty sure I don't have the physique gilly wants (I have been working hard to gain muscle for the last several years) but I do have a smaller, tighter waist at 125 pounds than I did at 110. So the scale definitely doesn't tell the whole story!

i'm a bit confused by this Amanda.
Do you mean that upping cals is NOT the way to go for me? I know what you're saying about other women having more to lose - but do I still up the cals, do u think?
Or do you simply mean that I might experience more adverse affects than these women, while my metabolism 'fixes' itself, before dropping fat and inches?
Thanks!

[aznprincess]

i'm a bit confused by this Amanda.
Do you mean that upping cals is NOT the way to go for me? I know what you're saying about other women having more to lose - but do I still up the cals, do u think?
Or do you simply mean that I might experience more adverse affects than these women, while my metabolism 'fixes' itself, before dropping fat and inches?
Thanks!

this is what amanda is trying to say. you are already pretty thin for your height. your goal of a 10lb weight loss will put you on the border of underweight.

the thing you're not realizing is that you're not going to be able to keep up the low level of calories you need to eat in order to stay at that weight. AND you're pretty much going to look just like you do now.

what amanda is trying to say is that you don't have that much fat to lose and that the best thing for you to do if you are looking for a tight, thin looking body is actually to eat around maintenance and lift heavy weight. this will cause you to look better while being able to eat more calories. this will cause you to lose inches but your scale weight will stay about the same.

in other words, SCALE WEIGHT IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF WHETHER A PERSON WILL LOOK GOOD NAKED.

your ultimate goal is actually to look leaner than you do right now. the thing is that you don't have enough lean muscle mass to look leaner as you lose weight.

SO if you were able to lose 10lbs, you will look skinny BUT STILL FAT. do you get what i'm saying? you're still going to have a stomach pooch. that's not going to go away if you lose 10lbs.

the only bad things you'll experience from eating at maintenance for two months is that you'll feel bloated. you can't get fat eating at maintenance. your metabolism will go back to 100% vs what ever lower percentage it's been burning for the past two years and if you want to burn that other 10lbs off after the end of two months of eating at maintenance... then drop your cals back down again and go for it.

everyone should take a break after being in deficit for more than 16 wks.

[Amanda76]

i'm a bit confused by this Amanda.
Do you mean that upping cals is NOT the way to go for me? I know what you're saying about other women having more to lose - but do I still up the cals, do u think?
Or do you simply mean that I might experience more adverse affects than these women, while my metabolism 'fixes' itself, before dropping fat and inches?
Thanks!

This IS the route you need to go. But you need to understand that you're going to have to be patient with it.

This is something you need to do to get your body functioning at full speed again before you can expect to make progress. The raising of calories in your case is about the length of time you've been at a deficit causing you to stall, not so much that the amount is wrong for someone your size trying to lose weight. When you change your habits, there's a good liklihood you'll feel more stalled out than a woman with more weight to lose because raising your calories is going to bring you closer to maintenance than it will someone of greater bodymass. It's NOT something that's going to cause you to lose 10 pounds over the next month or two. Changes will be a lot more subtle and will probably start with how strong you feel at the gym.

If you gain lean mass while eating at about maintenance, your body will lose inches while you stay at approximately the same weight. But the process tends to be an especially slow one when we're talking about that kind of body recomposition.

[gilly88]

this is what amanda is trying to say. you are already pretty thin for your height. your goal of a 10lb weight loss will put you on the border of underweight.

the thing you're not realizing is that you're not going to be able to keep up the low level of calories you need to eat in order to stay at that weight. AND you're pretty much going to look just like you do now.

what amanda is trying to say is that you don't have that much fat to lose and that the best thing for you to do if you are looking for a tight, thin looking body is actually to eat around maintenance and lift heavy weight. this will cause you to look better while being able to eat more calories. this will cause you to lose inches but your scale weight will stay about the same.

in other words, SCALE WEIGHT IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF WHETHER A PERSON WILL LOOK GOOD NAKED.

your ultimate goal is actually to look leaner than you do right now. the thing is that you don't have enough lean muscle mass to look leaner as you lose weight.

SO if you were able to lose 10lbs, you will look skinny BUT STILL FAT. do you get what i'm saying? you're still going to have a stomach pooch. that's not going to go away if you lose 10lbs.

the only bad things you'll experience from eating at maintenance for two months is that you'll feel bloated. you can't get fat eating at maintenance. your metabolism will go back to 100% vs what ever lower percentage it's been burning for the past two years and if you want to burn that other 10lbs off after the end of two months of eating at maintenance... then drop your cals back down again and go for it.

everyone should take a break after being in deficit for more than 16 wks.

fantastic, thank you - that clears it up.
yes, i dont really care what the scale says (within reason!) if i LOOK leaner and lose inches. so thats fine.
ok, will slowly get up to maintenance (i think around 2000-2100) and stay there for a while.
THANK YOU so much for helping and answering all my questions!

[Amanda76]

this is what amanda is trying to say. you are already pretty thin for your height. your goal of a 10lb weight loss will put you on the border of underweight.

the thing you're not realizing is that you're not going to be able to keep up the low level of calories you need to eat in order to stay at that weight. AND you're pretty much going to look just like you do now.

what amanda is trying to say is that you don't have that much fat to lose and that the best thing for you to do if you are looking for a tight, thin looking body is actually to eat around maintenance and lift heavy weight. this will cause you to look better while being able to eat more calories. this will cause you to lose inches but your scale weight will stay about the same.

in other words, SCALE WEIGHT IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF WHETHER A PERSON WILL LOOK GOOD NAKED.

your ultimate goal is actually to look leaner than you do right now. the thing is that you don't have enough lean muscle mass to look leaner as you lose weight.

SO if you were able to lose 10lbs, you will look skinny BUT STILL FAT. do you get what i'm saying? you're still going to have a stomach pooch. that's not going to go away if you lose 10lbs.

the only bad things you'll experience from eating at maintenance for two months is that you'll feel bloated. you can't get fat eating at maintenance. your metabolism will go back to 100% vs what ever lower percentage it's been burning for the past two years and if you want to burn that other 10lbs off after the end of two months of eating at maintenance... then drop your cals back down again and go for it.

everyone should take a break after being in deficit for more than 16 wks.

^^This is a good explanation^^

[aznprincess]

amanda - you're looking great. just checked progress pics. :-)

[Amanda76]

amanda - you're looking great. just checked progress pics. :-)

Thanks...my actual progress pics are from 2008. The avis I've been using are at least somewhat recent though. I had breast augmentation in November so it's been a while since I've taken any real physique pics. I normally don't around the holiday season anyway.

[aznprincess]

you know what might be helpful to the op are those pics you took of your recomp. i think that was you. where you were 115 in one pic and then 115 in another pic and you looked totally different.

[gilly88]

sorry amanda didnt see your clarifying post before i posted.

thanks, gals, for your help.

i figure its going to be scary for me to increase cals b/c a) im impatient and want to see inch loss NOW and b) i've never raised them before!

starting next week, i'm going to begin increasing calories and doing a split that looks like this:
lower
upper
cardio, abs
lower
upper
cardio, abs

and see how i go. i know this is going to be slow but i want my jeans to fit better!!

Thanks, really appreciate it.