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  1. #1
    Registered User pvcpeterson's Avatar
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    Tom Platz leg routine: only for steroid users?

    I have very small legs in comparison to my upper body. In the 3 months I have been lifting, my gains everywhere else have been huge...but my legs are just tiny!!

    Every other muscle group feels pumped/tired after my training, except my legs... I do a total of 11 sets for them, each set consisting of 4-6 reps (4 sets squats, 3 sets leg press, 2 sets deadlifts, 2 sets leg curls).

    I was thinking of trying Tom Platz' leg routine, BUT, it has so many sets/reps, that I'm wondering if it would be counterproductive unless I was on gear.

    Here was his routine:


    Tom Platz Squat and Leg Routine


    Squats, 8-12 sets of 5-20 reps

    Hack Squats, 5 sets of 10-15 reps

    Leg Extensions, 5-8 sets of 10-15 reps

    Lying Leg Curls, 6-10 sets of 10-15 reps

    Standing Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Seated Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Hack Machine Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Breaking down Tomís squat and leg workout we find that he performed and average of 21.5 sets for quads, 8 sets for hamstrings, and 10.5 sets for calves. Thatís a total of 40 sets.


    I have been having GREAT results doing only minimal sets for every other body part except legs. Would any of you more advanced lifters suggest even TRYING this routine? Or is it just begging for trouble without gear?

    Thanks all for your opinions.
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  2. #2
    Registered User grumble1's Avatar
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    How much are you squatting?
    GOMAD!
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  3. #3
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    40+ sets for legs in one workout? For a natty trainee? You're not serious, right? You're joking, right?


    Let sanity prevail; here's a good basic leg routine,to be done once a week:

    A Good Basic Leg Routine
    ----------------------------------

    Barbell Squat 4 sets of 6-8 reps

    Leg Press 3x10-12

    Lunge 3x8-10

    Stiff-Leg Deadlift 3x6-8

    Leg curl 3x10-12


    Calves can be done on a separate day, with an upper-body part.

    Leg Press Calf Raise 3x10-12

    Seated Calf Raise 3x12




    BTW, the rules of this forum prohibit the mention of 'performance enhancers.' Though I'd mention that before this thread gets a lock.
    Last edited by ironwill2008; 01-13-2010 at 09:51 AM.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  4. #4
    Loves Feeding Trolls Ironwake's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pvcpeterson View Post
    Squats, 8-12 sets of 5-20 reps
    =O

    I'd be dead after just these, if I was squatting any decent amount of weight... Listen to Ironwill :P
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  5. #5
    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Tom Platz leg routine: only for steroid users?

    Yes.

    The volume is far too high for natural bodybuilders.

    I have the greatest respect for Platz. Here's what he could do:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtVvYk1HWw

    Extraordinary strength and endurance and heart.

    Unlike some, I don't put down steroid users. Adults can do what they damn well like with their own bodies, so long as they don't do harm to another. Hell, gaining almost 90lbs of bodyweight to get strong, like I did with knife and fork foods, would be considered harmful by most medical authorities!

    I wouldn't use aas myself because I don't fancy my skill as an endocrinologist, and wouldn't trust any dodgy doctor either.
    Last edited by jgreystoke; 01-13-2010 at 10:10 AM.
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  6. #6
    Genetically Different adrenergic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    40+ sets for legs in one workout? For a natty trainee? You're not serious, right? You're joking, right?


    Let sanity prevail; here's a good basic leg routine,to be done once a week:

    A Good Basic Leg Routine
    ----------------------------------

    Barbell Squat 4 sets of 6-8 reps

    Leg Press 3x10-12

    Lunge 3x8-10

    Stiff-Leg Deadlift 3x6-8

    Leg curl 3x10-12


    Calves can be done on a separate day, with an upper-body part.

    Leg Press Calf Raise 3x10-12

    Seated Calf Raise 3x12




    BTW, the rules of this forum prohibit the mention of 'performance enhancers.' Though I'd mention that before this thread gets a lock.
    Did you even read his post?
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  7. #7
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adrenergic View Post
    Did you even read his post?
    yep.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  8. #8
    yo yo yo Flex500's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    40+ sets for legs in one workout? For a natty trainee? You're not serious, right? You're joking, right?


    Let sanity prevail; here's a good basic leg routine,to be done once a week:

    A Good Basic Leg Routine
    ----------------------------------

    Barbell Squat 4 sets of 6-8 reps

    Leg Press 3x10-12

    Lunge 3x8-10

    Stiff-Leg Deadlift 3x6-8

    Leg curl 3x10-12


    Calves can be done on a separate day, with an upper-body part.

    Leg Press Calf Raise 3x10-12

    Seated Calf Raise 3x12




    BTW, the rules of this forum prohibit the mention of 'performance enhancers.' Though I'd mention that before this thread gets a lock.
    it doesn't even matter he's natty that is crazy for a super juicy!
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  9. #9
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Flex500 View Post
    it doesn't even matter he's natty that is crazy for a super juicy!
    Quoted For Truth. This routine is so over the top, it's a miracle that even Platz could profit from it!
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  10. #10
    Genetically Different adrenergic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    yep.
    Oh because...you know...you countered his question about Tom Platz' routine with a routine that is pretty much what he already does and doesn't really answer his problem of having small legs.


    With that said, if you want to focus growth in the legs, you need a specialized routine. The body allocates growth where it is stimulated. If you have a balanced routine, you should have balanced growth. But here's a thought, you have used your legs all your life, correct? Well, that means they are very well trained, in a manner of speaking relative to your total training experience...3 months. Now, just because they are trained doesn't mean they have to be huge, look at distance runners. Basically, I'm saying that you should either reduce training in other parts of the body or that you should increase the workload on your legs. As well, you need to compensate in your diet for the increased workload. Just a theory.
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  11. #11
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adrenergic View Post
    Oh because...you know...you countered his question about Tom Platz' routine with a routine that is pretty much what he already does and doesn't really answer his problem of having small legs.
    On the contrary; I provided OP with a perfect answer to his problem, something you have yet to do.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  12. #12
    Genetically Different adrenergic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    On the contrary; I provided OP with a perfect answer to his problem, something you have yet to do.

    Circular logic never works.
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  13. #13
    You are on ignore CookAndrewB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adrenergic View Post
    Circular logic never works.
    Or does it...

    The truth is that, like so many other posts here, there is so little useful information in the OP that anyone would be hard pressed to give any kind of specific (IE, helpful) advice. IW pretty much gave an answer on par with the question.

    I don't walk into a garage, ask the mechanic "How does a car go?" and expect a detailed schematic of an internal combustion engine to be his response. I'll probably get a "push the gas" type of response.

    Food for thought. As a 17 year old I wouldn't get into a pissing match with IW. The man has colon obstructions older than you
    Last edited by CookAndrewB; 01-13-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by pvcpeterson View Post
    I have very small legs in comparison to my upper body. In the 3 months I have been lifting, my gains everywhere else have been huge...but my legs are just tiny!!

    Every other muscle group feels pumped/tired after my training, except my legs... I do a total of 11 sets for them, each set consisting of 4-6 reps (4 sets squats, 3 sets leg press, 2 sets deadlifts, 2 sets leg curls).

    I was thinking of trying Tom Platz' leg routine, BUT, it has so many sets/reps, that I'm wondering if it would be counterproductive unless I was on gear.

    Here was his routine:


    Tom Platz Squat and Leg Routine


    Squats, 8-12 sets of 5-20 reps

    Hack Squats, 5 sets of 10-15 reps

    Leg Extensions, 5-8 sets of 10-15 reps

    Lying Leg Curls, 6-10 sets of 10-15 reps

    Standing Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Seated Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Hack Machine Calf Raises, 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps

    Breaking down Tomís squat and leg workout we find that he performed and average of 21.5 sets for quads, 8 sets for hamstrings, and 10.5 sets for calves. Thatís a total of 40 sets.


    I have been having GREAT results doing only minimal sets for every other body part except legs. Would any of you more advanced lifters suggest even TRYING this routine? Or is it just begging for trouble without gear?

    Thanks all for your opinions.
    The mistake I see most folks making doing squats is trying to go to heavy and only going down 1/4 of the way. To get big legs, you have to get on down w/ the squat and presses. I see guys in the gym that think they are squatting 275 - 315 or so and they do have small legs because they are moving maybe 4 inches... I would not recomedn Tom's routine. Cut it in 1/2 and try it in a few months. Good luck
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  15. #15
    Registered User pvcpeterson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KWDreamun View Post
    The mistake I see most folks making doing squats is trying to go to heavy and only going down 1/4 of the way. To get big legs, you have to get on down w/ the squat and presses. I see guys in the gym that think they are squatting 275 - 315 or so and they do have small legs because they are moving maybe 4 inches... I would not recomedn Tom's routine. Cut it in 1/2 and try it in a few months. Good luck

    Thanks all for your replies.

    In answer to a few things brought up:

    I started off squatting a pathetic 95 pounds (including bar). I'm now doing 235, full squats, never partials.

    Leg press, I'm at about 600 for 4-6 full reps.

    It may appear to be a stupid question, asking if natural guys can train with high voulme-- I seriously didn't know if SUCH a high volume as Platz' workout is ridiculous or not... I know some guys who for example will do 5 or 6 sets of 50+ reps for calves and it has worked for them.

    A powerlifter I know at my gym does squats (among other olympic lifts,) 3 times a week for tons of sets.

    I would love to be strong, but I'm mainly wanting muscle hypertrophy for my legs. (I know, you've gotta be relatively strong to get some size.)

    So apparently, such a huge number of sets is not good. With my current routine, i have developed a lot of strength (for me) very quickly. BUT, my legs never feel pumped or sore afterward, like I'm not taxing them enough.

    I appreciate your guys' responses. Yes, even though I am 35, I am just starting to get into lifting seriously. So, there is no need to feel as if you are being condescending to me, when I don't know much to begin with.

    I may simply increase the rep range from 4-6 to 8-10, that in itself may give my muscles the extra attention they need. Sorry for the late reply, I just got home from work (3-11 pm). Now I'm off to lift...it's Back and Biceps day.

    Thanks again, and I appreciate any more advice you guys have to offer!
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  16. #16
    Registered User GuyJin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pvcpeterson View Post
    Thanks all for your replies.

    In answer to a few things brought up:

    I started off squatting a pathetic 95 pounds (including bar). I'm now doing 235, full squats, never partials.

    Leg press, I'm at about 600 for 4-6 full reps.

    It may appear to be a stupid question, asking if natural guys can train with high voulme-- I seriously didn't know if SUCH a high volume as Platz' workout is ridiculous or not... I know some guys who for example will do 5 or 6 sets of 50+ reps for calves and it has worked for them.

    A powerlifter I know at my gym does squats (among other olympic lifts,) 3 times a week for tons of sets.

    I would love to be strong, but I'm mainly wanting muscle hypertrophy for my legs. (I know, you've gotta be relatively strong to get some size.)

    So apparently, such a huge number of sets is not good. With my current routine, i have developed a lot of strength (for me) very quickly. BUT, my legs never feel pumped or sore afterward, like I'm not taxing them enough.

    I appreciate your guys' responses. Yes, even though I am 35, I am just starting to get into lifting seriously. So, there is no need to feel as if you are being condescending to me, when I don't know much to begin with.

    I may simply increase the rep range from 4-6 to 8-10, that in itself may give my muscles the extra attention they need. Sorry for the late reply, I just got home from work (3-11 pm). Now I'm off to lift...it's Back and Biceps day.

    Thanks again, and I appreciate any more advice you guys have to offer!
    ---------------------

    You've made pretty decent gains so far; keep it up. What you suggested--increasing the reps--would more than likely be enough to stimulate some more growth in your legs. Not necessarily increasing the sets. Tom Platz was a genetic freak, he was "supplementing" and he had (probably) better-than-average recovery, even without his special supps. Added to that, he started off as a powerlifter and did pretty well at it before he turned to bodybuilding, so he already had his strength base right there, juice or no juice.

    Since I don't know what other exercises you're doing for legs, what I'd suggest is the following:

    Keep squats in the 5-8 range for whatever number of sets you're doing now. Add in leg presses for the number of sets you're currently doing, but up the reps to 15 on the high end and no lower than 8 on the low end. For hamstrings, keep the reps between 8 and 10 for leg curls, and 6-8 for stiff-legged deadlifts. That would be more than enough, I think, to trigger some new growth. The trick, if there is one, is to add sets and weight and reps slowly and progressively, then back off for a bit. Only do what you can recover from--and only you'll know when you're recovering or not.

    Unless you're juicing up and have genetics supreme, doing a routine like Platz's would more likely put you in the hospital than get you onstage or make you the envy of your gym.

    Just my opinions...
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  17. #17
    Chicks and Camaros Nick1971's Avatar
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    Three things: 1) That's not too much volume for a serious bodybuilder - four leg exercises and four calf exercises. 2) Platz did a lot of higher-rep sets. 3) Platz didn't just do that one routine, over time. That's just one routine he probably did, out of countless others.

    If you are able to consistently able to perform that routine over time, who are we to tell you that you can't do that? We just don't know. But if you want to put a focus on what you consider to be a weak point in your physique, by all means do so.
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  18. #18
    Registered User kidchaosaz's Avatar
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    Natural bodybuilders can handle the same things as steroid users. You have to your nutrition down and good supplementation but i train every body part twice a week and my leg day has at least as much volume as the tom platz workout, when im feeling frisky and things click i do a good amount more than that. I am all natural and I never cease growing on this split with this much volume.
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  19. #19
    Registered User adonirvana's Avatar
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    iits true that steroids or non steroids user cants handle the same training routine , the thing is that its up to the body and how much he can take , for me i didnt try this much of sets on one day maybe two days a week for legs will give a good resuls however keeping the growing of the upper body should be the same as lower body but a 40 sets !! for non steroid users will get you no where , so i sugest for non steroid users never puch that much or the muscle will lose the ability of growing and u'll never have tom platz legs , and good luck guys .
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  20. #20
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    Far too many sets.

    There are a few in another thread that beleive in 'high volume', they probably don't make many gains and
    look the same year after year.
    -80 kgs in 15 months.
    -100 kgs goal (75kgs bodyweight)

    Abs on a skinny guy is like a fatgirl with big tits, it doesn't count.
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  21. #21
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    For a newbie to weights with 3 months experience, you have no business opening yourself to the high volume approach just yet. You want to see good leg development? Do BB squats (going to or past parallel), Dls, some kind of calf exercise, & possibly SLD or GHR. SLD is a more profitable exercise than leg curl because it is a compound exercise & recruits more muscles than the isolation exercise. Before all of you critics jump in telling me that the SLD is a back exercise primarily, I will say to you that many days of my life have been made difficult by the hamstring DOMS from this exercise.
    As for Platz's program, this is a typical volume of his time period. Just look at any program utilized by an Olympia winner of the pre-Yates period. PEDs were utilized because they allowed genetic limits to more easily be surpassed & they were a fact of the era; you just used them because you couldnt compete against someone else without them.
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  22. #22
    Realer Than Half Life 3 LadyLore420's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    40+ sets for legs in one workout? For a natty trainee? You're not serious, right? You're joking, right?


    Let sanity prevail; here's a good basic leg routine,to be done once a week:

    A Good Basic Leg Routine
    ----------------------------------

    Barbell Squat 4 sets of 6-8 reps

    Leg Press 3x10-12

    Lunge 3x8-10

    Stiff-Leg Deadlift 3x6-8

    Leg curl 3x10-12


    Calves can be done on a separate day, with an upper-body part.

    Leg Press Calf Raise 3x10-12

    Seated Calf Raise 3x12




    BTW, the rules of this forum prohibit the mention of 'performance enhancers.' Though I'd mention that before this thread gets a lock.
    I do 100+ sets in a typical workout, and I train legs 3 times a week. Granted it's a 3 months cycle from low volume to high volume, and in another month I'm resetting back to 1 exercise a workout.

    Nothing wrong with it assuming your nutrition is on par and you're getting 9+ hours of sleep a night.

    Screw steroids though, unless you're a dude. Then roids are hot.
    Harder better faster stronger

    Booty power log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160228781&p=1274704081&viewfull=1#post1274704081
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  23. #23
    Equipment Geek Mod Wildtim's Avatar
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    Maybe we should listen to Tom:

    Originally Posted by Tim Platz
    By actually placing less emphasis on my legs in the '80s, even to the point where I would not train legs a month prior to an event, they got bigger, more detailed, sharper, saran wrapped looking; it was almost like steel cords were on there with cuts in them. Amazing stuff.
    Originally Posted by Tim Platz
    I did not come out of the womb with cross striations on my legs. It came through a lot of hard work and a lot of squats. I was influenced by weightlifters back in the '70s and the squat rack almost became a separate sport for me.
    Originally Posted by Tim Platz
    I did have a lot of grueling workouts on the squat rack to the point where my life would pass in front of my eyes.

    I would lay on the floor in the old Gold's Gym in Venice Beach and my heart would be racing so fast that I couldn't breath and I couldn't see. I would have a towel over my head and would run the water fountain over my face, and after five or ten minutes I would get up and go, "Next set."

    I also have a feeling some of these exercises, or some of the sets, were done at a lower intensity for the stretch and cardio value as well. While Platz doesn't specifically mention this, I know its a strategy Draper used, and he was Platz's idol.

    I've done the same type of thing. There are workouts I've done that could be called insanely high volume, and they might be, but the majority of those sets were done at high speed and light weight mostly because I hate most standard indoor cardio.
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