Linear Gains - The Novice's Haven

[Schism45]

It is time to make this section my new home. Last year I began lifting weights for the first time in my life. I have been keeping a log of my workouts for the last year and realized fairly quickly that I am far more interested in powerlifting than in bodybuilding. I am a novice lifter - I am still making linear gains on a Rippetoe program. It has taken me quite a while to figure out my lifts - for the first four months I was doing every lift quite wrong, and I still need to make a lot of improvement on my technique, however this last year was an amazing learning experience.

Current stats:
6'0 190 pounds ~12% BF
Squat: 315x3x5
Bench: 170x3x5
Deadlift: 235x5
Military Press: 115x3x5

I am on a modified Starting Strength training template, and I will milk this for all the linear gains I possibly can. Then I will start Madcows 5x5, and that will hopefully take me to the end of this year. If not, I will probably begin to transition to a Westside-ish template. Depending on how things go, I will do my first meet either in summer or in December.

[endymion88]

goodluck, and eat like you mean it.

[Schism45]

Squat

275x5
275x5
275x5

Strict Military Press

115x5
115x4
115x3

Chinups

bwx7
bwx5
bwx3

Seated Cable Rows

130x5
100x5
100x5


Notes:

Had 3 weeks over Christmas where I only lifted three times, so I have to build back up.

Squat: Didn't feel to challenging, but at the same time I'm glad I didn't push it farther.
Press: On my 2nd rep of the second set I pushed it up and forward and recovering from that destroyed me. That one rep was harder than an entire set would have been. I know I can get this - I will get it next time.
Chinups: I never seem to get better at these.
Rows: Had nothing left after squats, press and chins, so weak rows as a result.

goodluck, and eat like you mean it.

Will do.

[Blarnee_92]

wooooaaah where are your warm-up sets? haha

[Schism45]

wooooaaah where are your warm-up sets? haha

These are only work sets. I haven't been logging my warmup sets =)

[SoaringSwine]

Unless you have some seriously weird proportions, it is very likely you are either:

1) deadlifting extremely poorly

and/or

2) squatting high

A squat 80lb+ more than your deadlift indicates the second.

[endymion88]

Unless you have some seriously weird proportions, it is very likely you are either:

1) deadlifting extremely poorly

and/or

2) squatting high

A squat 80lb+ more than your deadlift indicates the second.

oh hey i didn't even notice that.

[Schism45]

Unless you have some seriously weird proportions, it is very likely you are either:

1) deadlifting extremely poorly

and/or

2) squatting high

A squat 80lb+ more than your deadlift indicates the second.

My squats are perfect. My deadlifting sucks. My proportions are obviously more suited to squats than deadlifts, but not to an abnormal degree. Based on feedback, when deadlifting I start with the bar too far in front of me, but I can't get into ideal position yet due to flexibility issues (hips and hamstrings), and as a result my deadlift hasn't progressed much at all. Switching to sumo, a recent change, helped quite a bit, but I am currently working on flexibility because it isn't where it needs to be.

[Schism45]

Squat

185x5
185x5
185x5

Bench Press

170x5
170x5
170x3

Sumo Deadlift

235x5
285x1
285x1

Notes

Bench: Right side is still much stronger than left. Didn't have trouble with the weight on my right side, but the left couldn't do it.

Deadlift: Really trying to work on driving from my heels. I'm pretty sure that I initiate the lift on my toes because I can't push from my heels without rounding my back. Again, a result of the bar being too far forward - more flexibility work needed.

Because of the post by SoaringSwine I decided to test a heavier deadlift than is on my program just for kicks. Back was rounded for the whole lift on both lifts - I wasn't be able to break it off the ground from my usual starting position so I pulled the bar closer but as a result my back rounded.
These two singles were the closest I've ever come to blacking out while lifting - after setting down the bar and standing up, I was lightheaded and seeing stars. It took a few seconds before I could see normally again. Interesting.

[Schism45]

Squat

295x5
295x5
295x5

Strict Military Press

115x5
115x5
115x5 PR

Seated Cable Rows

100x5
100x5
100x5


Notes:

I have been bone tired all day today, but I really, really wanted to hit my goals. The results:

Squat: Success. I literally didn't have another rep in me. Felt good.
Press: Got it! I love PRing press, always makes me happy.
Rows: Dead tired by the time I hit these.
Chinups: Ran out of time, had to leave. My roommate has a chinup bar so I'll try to do some tomorrow.

[Schism45]

FORM CHECK VIDEO - SEE BOTTOM OF POST FOR LINK - FEEDBACK WELCOME

Squats for Speed

185x5
185x5
185x5

Bench Press

170x5
170x5
170x4 (the failed rep got cut out of the video unfortunately. It's basically me bringing the bar down and not being able to press it off my chest)

Sumo Deadlift

245x5

Conventional Deadlift

245x1

Notes

I video'd it: let me know what you think. I know my bench isn't great - I'd love tips/feedback from you guys on ways I can improve it. Same with deadlift. I included a conventional pull after the sumo just to show what it looks like - looking at the video the conventional wasn't as ugly as I thought it would be. I'd rather pull conventional than sumo, but conventional rapes my lower back in a bad pain way, whereas sumo is good soreness. Is my current preference for sumo due to leverages or just due to my own poor technique?

Squats aren't that exciting, it is a speed day so nothing heavy. It gives a brief shot of how low I'm going. I'll try to video the workout I do on Saturday to see if my squats are consistently at this depth.

EDIT: I posted the video in the form check section. Link: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post438658661

Let me know what you think!

[SoaringSwine]

Some thoughts:

Squat: Keep a tighter arch on those squats, your butt is winking in the hole. I won't say to much else about it, if you can get a vid using your working weights that would be better to critique. But if you're going that deep with them you're doing well.

Bench: Take those safeties down one! Some of those reps didn't even touch your chest! And hitting them each rep will not be doing you any favours. Also look into widening your grip. You may want to take it out 1 finger width per workout for a few weeks.

Deadlift: Looked like a piece of piss. No wonder your stats are funny, you can do wayyyyyyyy more on deadlift. Start cranking those numbers up!

[Fluster]

I agree with SS - if your Squats with actual weight on the bar are anything remotely like those pansy ones you showed us - You're doing ok.

The deads were a joke, I reckon you're just scared of them

[Schism45]

Some thoughts:

Squat: Keep a tighter arch on those squats, your butt is winking in the hole. I won't say to much else about it, if you can get a vid using your working weights that would be better to critique. But if you're going that deep with them you're doing well.

Bench: Take those safeties down one! Some of those reps didn't even touch your chest! And hitting them each rep will not be doing you any favours. Also look into widening your grip. You may want to take it out 1 finger width per workout for a few weeks.

Deadlift: Looked like a piece of piss. No wonder your stats are funny, you can do wayyyyyyyy more on deadlift. Start cranking those numbers up!

Thanks dude. I'll start working on the bench grip.

The deads were a joke, I reckon you're just scared of them

Maybe a little. Doing them conventional awhile back was destroying my lower back, and not in a good way, so I've been cautious as I move up in weight. Thanks for the feedback.

[Schism45]

Squat

305x5
305x5
305x5

Strict Military Press

120x5 PR
120x5 PR
120x4 PR

Chinups

BWX7
BWX4
BWX4

Seated Cable Rows

110x5
110x5
110x5


Notes:

Squat: Success. Video coming soon.
Press: Did well on these. My stabilizers failed on the last rep, which is unusual for me. I'll get it next time.
Chinups: Good numbers for how tired I was. I am quite pleased with this.
Rows: Dead tired by the time I hit these. Lots of leg drive, poor form.


Something is going to have change with my workouts. Linear increases on the weight is still working well, but I am always completely out of energy by the time I hit chinups and rows. Time to figure out some GPP work, or maybe do chinups and rows at a different time (later that day/another day all by themselves). Or both.

[Schism45]

Squat vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdwZrRCKin4

[endymion88]

Squat

305x5
305x5
305x5

Strict Military Press

120x5 PR
120x5 PR
120x4 PR

Chinups

BWX7
BWX4
BWX4

Seated Cable Rows

110x5
110x5
110x5


Notes:

Squat: Success. Video coming soon.
Press: Did well on these. My stabilizers failed on the last rep, which is unusual for me. I'll get it next time.
Chinups: Good numbers for how tired I was. I am quite pleased with this.
Rows: Dead tired by the time I hit these. Lots of leg drive, poor form.


Something is going to have change with my workouts. Linear increases on the weight is still working well, but I am always completely out of energy by the time I hit chinups and rows. Time to figure out some GPP work, or maybe do chinups and rows at a different time (later that day/another day all by themselves). Or both.

sup with the cable rows? do the bent rows to pack on the strength and mass!

[Schism45]

sup with the cable rows? do the bent rows to pack on the strength and mass!

I started out with bent-over rows, but a strength coach that I know and respect advised me to switch to seated cable rows to reduce the lower back loading, since every other lift (especially the frequent squatting and deadlifting) is heavy on the lower back work.

[endymion88]

the one things chicks dig more than a heavy backsquat is a heavy bent row.

[Schism45]

Squats for Speed

185x5
185x5
185x5

Bench Press

Moved grip a bit farther out.

170x5
170x5
170x4

Sumo Deadlift

265x5

Conventional Deadlift

265x1 Held it as long as I could - ~5 seconds.

Face Pull

100x12

Notes

Bench: Moved grip out about a finger width. I felt it a lot more in my shoulders. I guess I've been close-gripping it all this time.

Sumo Deadlift: Bumped it up 20 pounds instead of 10. Will begin moving by 10's again.

Conventional Deadlift: This is the last time I do one of these. These completely **** my back up in a bad way. I gave it one last shot, trying really hard to pull it properly, but nope. My leverages are evidently much more suited for sumo.

the one things chicks dig more than a heavy backsquat is a heavy bent row.

Meh, it'll have to wait. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

[endymion88]

i remember when i really sucked at bent rows i didn't wanna do em and i was trying to do them strict as hell. now i've been doing em more sloppily and it's become one of my favorite things to do and i've gotten better gains off them than ever before. also you probly just have to get your form down on conventional deads it does use alot more back but i'm guessing you stiff leg them.

[Schism45]

i remember when i really sucked at bent rows i didn't wanna do em and i was trying to do them strict as hell. now i've been doing em more sloppily and it's become one of my favorite things to do and i've gotten better gains off them than ever before. also you probly just have to get your form down on conventional deads it does use alot more back but i'm guessing you stiff leg them.

Maybe. I do one conventional dead at 1:46 in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxTaeOweWs

If you start at 1:45 your dialup will only load from there to the end so maybe it won't be as bad

[endymion88]

the pull didn't look too terrible at all. good back position held it tight. one thing i see is you seem afraid to let your knees drift ahead of the bar at the start of the pull which is where alot of quad drive will come from on conventional you were basically just using hammies and back also you rocked a little at lockout where it seemed like you almost lost balance. was the weight too light?

[Schism45]

the pull didn't look too terrible at all. good back position held it tight. one thing i see is you seem afraid to let your knees drift ahead of the bar at the start of the pull which is where alot of quad drive will come from on conventional you were basically just using hammies and back also you rocked a little at lockout where it seemed like you almost lost balance. was the weight too light?

Hmm. I will clearly have to work with it a bit more. Thanks for checking it out! For the knees: I think that I have a hard time driving from the heels if I bend my knees much farther forward--the weight starts to shift to the middle of of my foot. For the rocking at lockout--I think my grip was giving out and I was starting to lose the weight. But that wouldn't make sense for why I tipped back a bit. Maybe it was too light.

My lower back aches today, and I know it's 90-95% from that one conventional pull. I can accept this if it's a normal thing, but it seems strange to me that a full work set of sumo's (and all the warmups being sumo as well) give so much less soreness to my back than one conventional pull at the work set weight, unless I'm pulling the conventional wrong. I could feel by about halfway up the conventional pull that it was destroying my back and I would be sore after the workout and the next day. Is this normal for conventionals?

[endymion88]

well i feel anybody should build there base by doing conventional deadlifts and if it's destroying your back in the long run it's worth it because strong erectors never hurt anybody. what i did was built my base on conventional pulls then i plateaued, switched to sumo pulled a big pr worked on sumo til i pulled 700 in a deadlift suit, now i've switched back to raw conventionals to build my base up even further and eventually plan to go back to sumo.

so basically if in the long run you want to be super strong in either deadlift. start conventional.

if you want to compete right away do sumo.

if you just want the best muscular development do conventional.

this is of course my opinion and you can do it however youd like but i just prefer people building a strength base on conventional.

[Schism45]

well i feel anybody should build there base by doing conventional deadlifts and if it's destroying your back in the long run it's worth it because strong erectors never hurt anybody. what i did was built my base on conventional pulls then i plateaued, switched to sumo pulled a big pr worked on sumo til i pulled 700 in a deadlift suit, now i've switched back to raw conventionals to build my base up even further and eventually plan to go back to sumo.

so basically if in the long run you want to be super strong in either deadlift. start conventional.

if you want to compete right away do sumo.

if you just want the best muscular development do conventional.

this is of course my opinion and you can do it however youd like but i just prefer people building a strength base on conventional.

I'd love to do that--always pulling conventional except for stalls/competitions. My biggest concern is that the back soreness is bad soreness, not good soreness, and what makes me suspect the bad soreness is that I feel it right away after a workout, or sometimes even during (as it was with the video'd conventional - I felt that immediately, even during the pull), whereas generally my soreness/stiffness hits the next day.

I guess my question is, how do you tell if it's good soreness or bad soreness? Because if what I'm feeling is good soreness, then I will gladly start pulling conventional even if it's with lower numbers for the foreseeable future. I switched to sumo in the first place because I thought I was getting a bad type of soreness and I didn't want to wreck my back. I switched to sumo not because it was stronger, although it turned out to be, but because it felt more comfortable/natural/the soreness I get from it is less suspicious to me. What do you think? How do you tell?

And thanks for the input, Endymion, I really appreciate the help, especially from an experienced lifter. It is going to save me many moons of potentially fruitless lifting to figure this out now instead of later.

[Schism45]

Squat

315x4
315x3
315x2

Strict Military Press

120x5
120x5
120x5 PR

Chinups

BWX5
BWX5
BWX4

Seated Cable Rows

120x5
120x5
120x5


Notes:

Squat: Lower back failed. My legs were fine, but my lower back couldn't handle the weight and I crumpled. I hadn't recovered enough from the deadlifts - I need to eat more. And I'm choked at myself for taking it easy over Christmas break - it's been almost a month and I still haven't caught up to where I was when I left off, at least for squats. Lesson learned.
Press: PR'd it, going for 125 next week! I love PRing press. This made me less frustrated at missing the squats.
Chinups: I was rereading some Rippetoes stuff and I realized that I should be adding weight as soon as I hit 3 sets of 5 reps, so I will no longer be going over 5 on these.
Rows: Again, dead tired by the time I hit these and sloppy rows as a result.

[Schism45]

Soccer has started up again (I play once a week for most of the year). Playing tonight made me realize how horribly out of shape I am, and I'm thinking this might be why I never have any energy left for rows at the end of the one workout. So, starting soon, I will be doing one GPP session per week (in addition to soccer every week). We'll see if it makes an impact.

[Mitsuomi]

you need to do lots of core work if you want to keep making gains and having good form on squats and deadlifts. you need to have a strong core to have a strong squat and deadlift period.

- abs
- direct lower back work
- hammy's (especially since you pull sumo)

[Schism45]

Squats for Speed

185x5
185x5
185x5

Bench Press

175x5
175x5
175x5

Sumo Deadlift

275x5

Conventional Deadlift

275x1 Held it as long as I could - ~5 seconds.

GHR

BWx8
BWX5

Notes

Bench: Today I decided "I'm going to squeeze the **** out of this bar and see what happens".

Well, warmup was so easy (the bar was flying up) that I decided jump ahead of the program by 5 (program=170x3x5) and just do 175x3x5. It was a smart move. I have so much more in me. If I can keep getting better with my technique, I should be able to hit at least 200 without missing a rep, and hit 225 without a deload.

Sumo Deadlift: My grip sucks, I need chalk. Mixed grip throws me slightly off balance in sumo. I've been playing around with hook grip, and I intend to eventually hook everything.

Conventional Deadlift: I lied. I know I said I wouldn't, but I did a conventional dead at the end. And to my great surprise, the weight flew up even faster than most of my sumo warmups. Everything felt great and clicked. My lower back felt fine, it didn't feel ****ed like it usually does after a conventional. I will continue experimenting with this.

you need to do lots of core work if you want to keep making gains and having good form on squats and deadlifts. you need to have a strong core to have a strong squat and deadlift period.

- abs
- direct lower back work
- hammy's (especially since you pull sumo)

You have to remember that I am still making linear gains (i.e. I am a noob who can max out every time I enter the gym). Yes, at some point I will need to really hammer the core isolation exercises, but right now my core gets hammered every time I work out. Heavy squats, heavy deads, and military press destroy the abs and lower back (bench does as well, to a certain extent). More advanced lifters need to pay special attention to hammering their core because they can't recover as quickly as I can from exercises that destroy their whole body. At least this is my understanding of it.

I do agree with adding hamstring work because of sumo, and GHR's were a staple after deadlifts in my last log. Thank you for reminding me - I will keep doing them.