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  1. #1
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Over 65: muscle gain?

    Who has experienced muscle gain--size and strength--at over age 65? I'm starting to workout after some past health problems, and I'm anxious to get strength and hardness back; but I'm wondering if any gain in muscle size happens with older people. I haven't started the typical shrink and wrinkle process yet! Actually I am still pretty hard and with good definition. My basic stats: 6' , 160#. Very little fat.

    Piperman
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  2. #2
    Registered User Musicguy's Avatar
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    Hello again, Piperman....

    Good to see you here, I think you'll enjoy this forum.

    Ron M.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Dutchman's Avatar
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    Piperman, welcome aboard. At 61 1/2 I am oneof the older, old farts here. In the last two and a half years I managed to go from 148 lbs to 205 and have seen my strength shoot through the roof. While not a pud I am more the powerlifter and not a BBer like most here aspire to. There are guys here up into their 70s, eg look up George76's threads. Read through the various threads, do some searches and ask some questions. You'll find lots of helpful info here.
    Dutch

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  4. #4
    Registered User TwoWalks's Avatar
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    Re: Over 65: muscle gain?

    Originally posted by piperman
    Who has experienced muscle gain--size and strength--at over age 65?

    Piperman
    Welcome Piperman: Well I am not 65 yet, but I am 57 and that is well into the time they start talking about hard to lose fat - lean muscle mass loss and slow metabalism. Diet and exercise can stop that process and infact reverse it. In the last six months I have lost 50#'s of body fat and gained some where around 15#'s of lean muscle mass. I believe that at 65 you can gain Lean Mass, you just need to workout and eat right and age does not matter.
    Question is: are you really going to mind if you hit your goals without puking 3 times a week?
    by Daniel Roberts
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  5. #5
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Thanks! You are all most encouraging. I guess from here it's a matter of seriously getting to work on it and seeing what happens.

    Piperman
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  6. #6
    Registered User Gator's Avatar
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    Anything is possible Piper..
    Welcome and good luck..

    Gator
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  7. #7
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Over 65: muscle gain?

    Originally posted by TwoWalks
    \ In the last six months I have lost 50#'s of body fat and gained some where around 15#'s of lean muscle mass. I believe that at 65 you can gain Lean Mass, you just need to workout and eat right and age does not matter. [/B]
    Do you think that for someone who does not gain weight easily and has very little body fat that muscle mass can be achieved? I can understand that someone who has lost 50--maybe 100--pounds would have developed considerable muscle just to handle that weight, and that the muscle would certainly look good once the fat had been lost. (I'm not questioning your muscle mass gain, TwoWalks, just posing a general observation.)

    Piperman
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  8. #8
    Registered User TwoWalks's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Over 65: muscle gain?

    Originally posted by piperman
    Do you think that for someone who does not gain weight easily and has very little body fat that muscle mass can be achieved? I can understand that someone who has lost 50--maybe 100--pounds would have developed considerable muscle just to handle that weight, and that the muscle would certainly look good once the fat had been lost. (I'm not questioning your muscle mass gain, TwoWalks, just posing a general observation.)

    Piperman
    Piperman, my answer to your question as a whole is "Yes I do". As far as a person that loses 50#'s of fat having X amount of muscle to carry the load, that is pretty general but basically true. That would have been the 150#'s of original muscle mass that I had. The muscle gain would be new additional mass.

    If a person is really a hard gainer then I still think the answer is true. Metabalism + activity level subracted from calories consumed = 0, then no gains no losses. When you increase the calories an additional amount even a hard gainer will experience mass gain - the difference at that point becomes more a matter of how fast, not really abililty to gain.

    I feel it still gets back to the same thing of the proper diet and workout based on genetics and goals.
    Question is: are you really going to mind if you hit your goals without puking 3 times a week?
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  9. #9
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Thanks, TwoWalks. I will have to work carefully at diet so as to eat just the things that promote muscle gain. At my age, the stomach rebels at too much food beyond what I generally eat, so I suppose that high protein and carb foods are the best (I use a protein supplement, too, along with vitamins).

    Piperman
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  10. #10
    Registered User Dutchman's Avatar
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    Piperman, most of the guys here have done the opposite of what you want to do. They have slimmed down,added lean muscle mass, and then added the strength and definition that was their ultimate goal. You are in the same boat I was on New Years day 2001 when I arrived back in the US. At 148 lbs I could run like the wind and never had even 9% body fat. I needed to change my diet adding protein and carbs and switching to 6 meals a day. I started doing two protein shakes a day one in the morning after my workout and again about two hours before hitting the sack. On the workout level I had to cut back on the number of sets and reps I was doing and increase the amount of weight I was using. By doing 5 sets of 5 reps with a good three minute break in between I started to add strength and muscle mass. Instead of whole body workouts I did only one body part per day, over 4 days per week. In my case I did legs, chest, back/shoulders, and arms. I added abs twice a week to the shorter days. No smoking,reduced drinking and increased rest at night or even a nap during the afternoon all helped as well. Nothing fancy, just a very basic agenda, that and a lot of persistence and patience. After a year I started to do four cycles of 1AD with even more calories consumed. That took me over the top in weight goals and way over my wildest dreams for strength gains. Everyone at the gym and home in my family told me I had been crazy to try such a thing at my age. That just fueled my fire that much more. Good luck you can do it too!
    Dutch

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  11. #11
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Smile

    Dutchman, you are a real booster! Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll take your training tips and diet as a guide.
    No effort is too little if done with purpose.
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  12. #12
    Registered User dcon143's Avatar
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    Smile I googled "resistance training for men over 65" and found this site...

    I little intro about me...

    First Dcon is for Dennis Con...

    I am a 65 year old man. After I re-married 9 years ago, I became content and I got lazy and I quit my gym routine. I was 56 years old, ~6’ and 230lbs of mostly solid and lean muscle. During my 9-year gym hiatus, I lost most of my muscle mass and definition. I shot up to 262 lbs of fat. I didn’t completely give up lifting. I kept a 50lb dumbbell that I used for doing reverse curls. I’d lie on my back on my living room coffee table and I would do one set of at least 50 reps around 2-3 times a week. Reverse curls kept my back strong plus my large triceps that I had worked so hard and long to get were still intact under my fat arms.

    In June 2014, I returned to the gym doing serious, almost daily, routines. I enjoy strength training. Cardio is boring. To supplement my cardio, I try to do several lift machines back to back to keep up a somewhat steady heart rate when I exercise. I don’t diet much; however, I try my best to limit any white flour carbs. I’ve lost ~15 lbs in 4 months which equates to ~-lb/week. Fat from my face is mostly gone. My arms, neck and chest have expanded while my waist has shrunk 2 inches. My basic goal is to simply maintain strong bones and muscles, as I enter older age. I know the mental and physical benefits exercise has. So, I want to continue to look good and feel good as I grow old. Now, that does not mean I won’t enjoy some cookies, chocolates, holiday snacks and alcohol when I have the urge to indulge in some sugar... everything in balance from now on. And, having more muscle lets me get away with some of those bad eating habits.

    When I started back this time, my joints were sore. I realized I had to be careful not to over lift and to stop at the slightest hint of pain. I am timid about doing leg presses, as I seem to have a chronic pain in my left knee that takes a week to heal after I lay off it. I’m taking supplements coenzyme Q-10 and another called FLEX which seems to help ease my older-age joint pain. Overall, I am generally pain free. However, I am not content if my muscles aren’t always a bit sore though.

    There’s a few of us older coots, codgers and geezers at the downtown Los Angeles GOLD’S Gym that I belong to. It’s nice to see the few old grey haired dudes with some pretty cut bodies among the sea of young roosters with their full-sleeve tattoo'd arms, (I just don’t understand why men hide their muscle definition under tattoos)?

    Almost everyone is impressed with my newly formed and rather quick physical transformation. When asked, I often tell them that with as little as 20-30 minutes of strength training every other day they can have tremendous results in rather short order. To tell you the truth, I’m also surprised how many coworkers and friends won’t say anything about my changed appearance.… it wasn’t that way 10 years ago, yet today I sense a bit of envy and, I suppose, they’d just rather not go there lest they would have to discuss any lifestyle changing considerations too. I usually just comment that it’s a lot more work to haul around 50 lbs of fat than it is 50 lbs of muscle…and, of course, a thousand mile journey begins with one step. I’ve still got a ways to go, but feeling good that I’m back on the right course again. And, I've learned there's no contentment with an out of shape body.
    Last edited by dcon143; 10-30-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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  13. #13
    pluggin' away poundXpound's Avatar
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    STRONG 11-1/2 year bump....
    The USA has always been a "can do" society, but I fear we're becoming a "what can you do for me" society.....
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  14. #14
    Registered User Dutchman's Avatar
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    What a blast from the past. Now in 2014, at 73 I can look back and laugh. Back then in '03 my Docs at the VA put me on test. injections and I have never had a problem gaining since then. I weathered my wife's long battle with cancer and my depression and put humpty dumpty back together again. This week, shortly after my 73 birthday, I did 300 on the BP and a set of 5 reps on the machine flies at 225. Strength is entirely possible for us even as we age. I wonder where Piperman is now. Haven't heard from him for a while.
    Dutch

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  15. #15
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    What a blast from the past. Now in 2014, at 73 I can look back and laugh. Back then in '03 my Docs at the VA put me on test. injections and I have never had a problem gaining since then. I weathered my wife's long battle with cancer and my depression and put humpty dumpty back together again. This week, shortly after my 73 birthday, I did 300 on the BP and a set of 5 reps on the machine flies at 225. Strength is entirely possible for us even as we age. I wonder where Piperman is now. Haven't heard from him for a while.
    Dutch, I'm here! I've not stopped working out in the last 11 years and now I'm still thin, but at 78 have hard muscles and do pretty serious lifting at the gym. You can see my workout tracking at my site. Nice to know that you're still going strong, emphasis on the "strong!"
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  16. #16
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    First of all, it is fantastic to see someone in your age category being so fit and so active as you are.
    I hope I'll be able to say the same when I'm your age.

    Recently I have begun studying up in the works of Dr. Jeffry Life, who has been mentioned here before.
    I can seriously recommend you read his book "The life plan" or more recent "Mastering the life plan". Also several video's of him are available on youtube covering interviews.

    At a more mature age, aside from the correct nutrition, supplementation, training and rest it will be necessary to evaluate your hormone levels. While nutrition and supplementation (vitamins/minerals/herbs) will naturally increase your hormone levels this might not be enough. Blood work needs to confirm this. I'm not talking abuse, I'm talking bringing those levels up in the normal range for overall healthy functioning.

    Props to you and keep it going!
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  17. #17
    Registered User Overload's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by poundXpound View Post
    STRONG 11-1/2 year bump....
    LOL. That's one of the strongest bumps around here.

    But I want to applaud people like Dutchman and Piperman for still going strong. More power to you. Great inspiration for all us old(er) folks.

    Remember it's just a number. Ignore it
    "Franco is pretty smart, but Franco's a child, and when it comes to the day of the contest, I am his father. He comes to me for advices. So it's not that hard for me to give him the wrong advices." - Arnold Schwarzenegger - Pumping Iron
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  18. #18
    Kicking sarcopenia's azz ljimd's Avatar
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    Still working on it.
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    I thank you very much for posting these replies because it lets me know that there are many possibilities in this arena and at the present stage of life.
    Which means I have to get my lazy ass back into the gym!
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  20. #20
    Infinite Goals kconnell's Avatar
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    Short answer--yes. But don't expect to look like Ronnie Coleman.

    Studies have been done on nursing home patients and these were the ones that couldn't get out of a chair and needed a walker. What'd they do? They got them to stand and sit as many times as the could (squat movement). The result? After a month, many were able to get up on their own and some even discarded their walkers.

    Another example: my mother in law went up and down her stairs about 5-8 times a day doing things. After 2 months she was excited to tell me that her legs were stronger and she wasn't as tired anymore. She also had more energy.
    -- Infinite Labs Rep --

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  21. #21
    Registered User Georgeoz's Avatar
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    It seems I am older than even Piperman. But it is true - start slow and gentle, teach your body to get just a bit better every day. Workout every day - I follow a routine exercising different body parts each 4 days, accompanied by a basic aerobic routine. The whole thing takes about 1 1/2 hours. Last time we measured, I had put on 1 cm around guns, same around wheels and 2 cm LESS around waist.

    You need to eat sparingly and good food (avoid everything white) and ejaculate as often as you can.

    My grandchildren are going to help me learn how to post pictures and you will then see this is not bull**** (this is an Australian word, meaning rubbish, or hype).
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  22. #22
    Not Skinny Anymore Taichichuan's Avatar
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    Who the hell is Ronnie Coleman? Oh! Steroid using Ronnie Coleman, Mr. Olympia. Are we allowed to mention steroid using bodybuilders on this on supposedly "natural bodybuilding" forum?

    I just want to look like the way I did when I got out of the MC.
    One more time before I die and I know it's possible because I did it a few years back and fail off the wagon with a mighty crash. This time around I'm going to add much need incentive and motivation to the mix: Competition at a Masters' 60 and over!!! And I don't want to look like a beast! You older guys let me know there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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  23. #23
    Registered User Galactus's Avatar
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    11.5 year bumps are acceptable when its to find out that 2 70+ year old men have both still been lifting hard those last 11.5 years!!! Super awesome.
    Bench 335 x 4, 375 x 1
    Squat 455 x 2
    DL 495 x 4
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  24. #24
    Registered User JerryB's Avatar
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    I'm not in my 70's but I'm researching the physiological changes with aging in particular sarcopenia the gradual loss of muscle mass. So far the weight training has minimize the loss of muscle mass . I'm looking into what changes are required in my diet. Since the muscle synthesis signals decline with age my protein intake may need to increase. In regards to supplements I added beetroot as a daily supplement for nitric oxide levels. The L-arginine to nitric oxide pathway declines with age(1). That is probably why the NOS L-arginine based products did nothing for me. I added more green leaf vegetables such as kale and arugula which are high in nitrates. Nitric oxide has many important function in the human body(2). Other area of interest about aging is the cell organelle the mitochondria, the energy producing power planet of the human body. It's function declines with age(3). If weight training slows sarcopenia I'm looking into what dietary changes or physical activities are necessary to slow the dysfunction of mitochondria.




    (1)
    http://books.google.com/books?id=CDk...page&q&f=false


    (2)
    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...5#.VF15jMng5x8


    (3)
    http://www.jci.org/articles/view/64125
    How can you visualize the training of a muscle if you don't know its structure?
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  25. #25
    Registered User piperman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JerryB View Post
    I'm not in my 70's but I'm researching the physiological changes with aging in particular sarcopenia the gradual loss of muscle mass. So far the weight training has minimize the loss of muscle mass . I'm looking into what changes are required in my diet. Since the muscle synthesis signals decline with age my protein intake may need to increase. In regards to supplements I added beetroot as a daily supplement for nitric oxide levels. The L-arginine to nitric oxide pathway declines with age(1). That is probably why the NOS L-arginine based products did nothing for me. I added more green leaf vegetables such as kale and arugula which are high in nitrates. Nitric oxide has many important function in the human body(2). Other area of interest about aging is the cell organelle the mitochondria, the energy producing power planet of the human body. It's function declines with age(3). If weight training slows sarcopenia I'm looking into what dietary changes or physical activities are necessary to slow the dysfunction of mitochondria.
    Very helpful information! I'm finding that, although in some exercises my strength has increased a bit, my muscles--at least the biceps--have decreased a little in size. Not sure if that's simply sarcopenia or less water or what. Yet I'm lifting as hard or harder.
    No effort is too little if done with purpose.
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  26. #26
    Registered User JeffersonRod's Avatar
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    Related Question

    I have the same question. What if I'm 43, but unlike piperman, I have NEVER been in good shape. What can I expect? It relates to piperman's question because for him, he is a little older and getting BACK into shape, whereas, I'm kind of getting old, and have never been in shape or worked out in my life. I feel like piperman can SNAP BACK, but can I SNAP TO for the first time at 43?
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  27. #27
    Registered User JerryB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JeffersonRod View Post
    I have the same question. What if I'm 43, but unlike piperman, I have NEVER been in good shape. What can I expect? It relates to piperman's question because for him, he is a little older and getting BACK into shape, whereas, I'm kind of getting old, and have never been in shape or worked out in my life. I feel like piperman can SNAP BACK, but can I SNAP TO for the first time at 43?

    43 is old?
    Only if you are dedicated in working out and nutrition the obvious answer is yes.
    How can you visualize the training of a muscle if you don't know its structure?
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  28. #28
    Team Kelei 1fatoldman's Avatar
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    Piperman & Dutchman You guys are AWESOME!
    Soon to be X-Fatoldman :)

    If you always do what you've always done
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  29. #29
    Kicking sarcopenia's azz ljimd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JerryB View Post
    I'm not in my 70's but I'm researching the physiological changes with aging in particular sarcopenia the gradual loss of muscle mass. So far the weight training has minimize the loss of muscle mass . I'm looking into what changes are required in my diet. Since the muscle synthesis signals decline with age my protein intake may need to increase. In regards to supplements I added beetroot as a daily supplement for nitric oxide levels. The L-arginine to nitric oxide pathway declines with age(1). That is probably why the NOS L-arginine based products did nothing for me. I added more green leaf vegetables such as kale and arugula which are high in nitrates. Nitric oxide has many important function in the human body(2). Other area of interest about aging is the cell organelle the mitochondria, the energy producing power planet of the human body. It's function declines with age(3). If weight training slows sarcopenia I'm looking into what dietary changes or physical activities are necessary to slow the dysfunction of mitochondria.




    (1)
    http://books.google.com/books?id=CDk...page&q&f=false


    (2)
    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...5#.VF15jMng5x8


    (3)
    http://www.jci.org/articles/view/64125

    Good post Jerry. All those subjects are of interest to me as well.
    Beating back sarcopenia and making diet/training changes that
    might help.

    Thanks for the article links.
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  30. #30
    Registered User Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JerryB View Post
    43 is old?
    Only if you are dedicated in working out and nutrition the obvious answer is yes.
    This ^^^ I'm (nearly) 55 and train just as hard as I ever have.
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