Do you agree? (regarding Good Morning's)

[esoterik]

In Starting Strength, Mark Rippetoe says that Good Morning's shouldn't be considered by anybody that doesn't have 35% of their squat being at least 95 lbs. That means anybody with less than a ~270 lbs. squat has no business doing GM's.

Do you guys agree?

[burningNun]

I'm not sure I agree with your maths, but Mark Rippetoe is quite clever.

[Entkommen115]

He kind of sort of has a point.

If a person only has a 270 squat then they need to squat more. They are too weak to have any actual weak points. That being said I think it would still be a good supplemental exercise regardless of how strong the person is.

It all depends on how you take what he says into context I guess.

[ShutUpAndSquat]

For adult males, I would agree with that.

[eXpiRaTioN_DaTe]

you certainly dont need them to make progress, especially at that novice level of lifting, but doing them wont hurt.

[misterwaterfall]

you certainly dont need them to make progress, especially at that novice level of lifting, but doing them wont hurt.

louie simmons says to do they for 70% of your lower body ME work exercises. just sayin

[burningNun]

louie simmons says to do they for 70% of your lower body ME work exercises. just sayin

Yeah and you have to squat like 800 to join the gym.

[gewaltiger]

i agree,
wouldnt really waste your time with assistance exercises when your squat is just weak and inexperienced. maybe when you get to 3 plates

[DieHollywoodDie]

louie simmons says to do they for 70% of your lower body ME work exercises. just sayin

that's a really old article. westside is always changing (i.e. addition of chains/bands, reverse hyper, removal of kneeling squats, wave progressions etc.). i believe (could be wrong) that in a more recent article louie and/or one of the other westside guys said westside has moved away from good mornings as 1RM ME movement, and generally do them with heavy triples now.

i think the 270 thing is true. the adage of being too weak to train weak points is true. it's more about technique, "greasing the groove", learning how to actually do the movement and get used to heavy weights. good mornings helped me both in squatting and deadlifting, but i don't use them as 1RMs but usually as assistance with either heavy triples or in the 8-15 rep range.

[Torrtrefireto]

Good mornings are in my opinion the riskiest regular powerlifting move there is.

I think its more of a proficiency thing than a muscular strength thing.

If you haven't been lifting long enough to squat 275, you probably don't know your body well enough to subject it to the insanity of thought and control required for a proper good morning type exercise

[Boridi]

so most female powerlifters aren't allowed to do good mornings?

[eXpiRaTioN_DaTe]

Good mornings are in my opinion the riskiest regular powerlifting move there is.

I think its more of a proficiency thing than a muscular strength thing.

If you haven't been lifting long enough to squat 275, you probably don't know your body well enough to subject it to the insanity of thought and control required for a proper good morning type exercise

i agree with this, they're definitely very difficult to properly perform when starting out and if you dont kno exactly how to do them, id steer away.

still, if you just lift a weight you can handle and do it for like 10-12 reps instead of a heavy set, theyll help beef up your lower back and hamstrings. not so much because theyre specifically a weakness, but just for more overall hypertrophy and strength in the muscles involved in squatting.

again, theyre not needed but if you can perform the movement correctly why not do them?

[DieHollywoodDie]

Good mornings are in my opinion the riskiest regular powerlifting move there is.

I think its more of a proficiency thing than a muscular strength thing.

If you haven't been lifting long enough to squat 275, you probably don't know your body well enough to subject it to the insanity of thought and control required for a proper good morning type exercise

anything is risky if you're an idiot. don't round the back when you're not trying to, don't put yourself in compromising situations. from jim wendler:

"Many people like to perform 5-8 repetitions on the good morning. The good morning is one of the best exercises for your low back, hamstrings and glutes. Unfortunately, many people turn the good morning into a quarter-squat because they want to add more weight. Not only is this sophomoric, it takes the purpose of the exercise away. So if your form is less than desirable on the good morning, take some weight off of the bar, do it correctly and save yourself a trip to your chiropractor. "

[Norse1308]

Assistance exercises are bad?

Well, on the other hand that's like saying you can only do closed grip benchpress if your benchpress is 275, and I'm sure you guys woudln't agree with that statement.

I don't see how Mark Rippetoe can pull such a random number out of his ass and say that people can't do them. And as another poster stated, that would exclude a lot of female lifters.

Maybe Rippetoe meant he himself doesn't personally advise people to do them, or was he saying that they "definitely should not"? Oh well, I don't agree with Rippetoe's squatting technique anyways, and I don't care if he wrote Starting Strength or not, I think it's sort of an outlandish claim.

[Deadlift_10KG]

I would still use the Squat and it's box variation (low, parallel, and high) for ME and GMs for assistance. Honestly, once you get heavy enough on exercise, then use conjugate method. Bands / Chains are fine too if you are using them for squat / bench / dead but I don't think any beginner would get a strong carry over from GMs to squat / dead.

[Mustrainhard]

so most female powerlifters aren't allowed to do good mornings?

Strong tendency to take things literally. Nobody is not allowed to do any exersize. Just, beginners would benefit more from doing squats and DLs.

<---female powerlifter who does good mornings.

[koyongi]

I think that putting an absolute limit on the weight you have to squat to do GMs is silly. But, obviously if your squat is weak because you're a beginner, you need to squat more.

I'd agree with the not taking GMs to a max, though. Sets of 8-10 as assistance, or 3-5 for an ME movement seem to work well. (Or, at least intending to do a set of 3, and stopping at the weight where you get two...)

[Norse1308]

Strong tendency to take things literally. Nobody is not allowed to do any exersize. Just, beginners would benefit more from doing squats and DLs.

<---female powerlifter who does good mornings.

I dunno... "shouldn't be considered by anybody that doesn't have 35% of their squat being at least 95 lbs"... better listen to him am I right? Rippetoes knows all, hmm?

[MComm]

No, I disagree. I generally disagree with any statement that uses strong words regarding training like must, all, none, cannot, etc.

You should learn your body and try everything. What works for person A doesn't work for person B.

I do two types of GM:
1. Strict form with locked knees. Light weight, high rep (12-14).
2. Knees are not locked. Heavy weight, low rep.

#1 and squat are completely different exercises. One if strictly for hamstrings and ass. Another is for entire body.

[misterwaterfall]

that's a really old article. westside is always changing (i.e. addition of chains/bands, reverse hyper, removal of kneeling squats, wave progressions etc.). i believe (could be wrong) that in a more recent article louie and/or one of the other westside guys said westside has moved away from good mornings as 1RM ME movement, and generally do them with heavy triples now.

i think the 270 thing is true. the adage of being too weak to train weak points is true. it's more about technique, "greasing the groove", learning how to actually do the movement and get used to heavy weights. good mornings helped me both in squatting and deadlifting, but i don't use them as 1RMs but usually as assistance with either heavy triples or in the 8-15 rep range.

He resomends doing them as a ME movement but as tripples not singles

[Fluster]

I dunno... "shouldn't be considered by anybody that doesn't have 35% of their squat being at least 95 lbs"... better listen to him am I right? Rippetoes knows all, hmm?

I will absolutely guarantee that the OP's quote is being taken out of context. There's no way he would have put an absolute numerical restriction on something like that unless he was;

a) Taking the piss out of someone asking a dumb question.
b) Responding to a specific question with parameters not details in the OP's quote
c) Taking the piss out of someone asking a dumb question.

Use your common sense girls, he's not saying you must get a squat of exactly 270.525lbs before you can consider GM's regardless of body type, weight, experience or gender - Just that novices have no business doing squat assistance when they have a squat comprised entirely of weaknesses.

-edit- Apologies, didn't see the quote was direct from SS, brb checking context.

[Shaun_W]

Sometimes people take things too literally, as this thread shows.

Rip's entire point was that if your squat is really weak, and 270lbs x 1 is, then you don't need the addition of more intermediate exercises into your programme. And I think he's right.

[grindingitout]

Do not agree.

[bttlefedponyboy]

Sometimes people take things too literally, as this thread shows.

Rip's entire point was that if your squat is really weak, and 270lbs x 1 is, then you don't need the addition of more intermediate exercises into your programme. And I think he's right.

x2 dave tate hits on this point also in his bench press cure vid obviously not the good mornings but assistance exercises

[Darkwatcher759]

thanks to the infranets theres a lot of absolute beginners who think theyre experts because they've read all of the standard powerlifting literature on the big websites. They then attempt to train like powerlifters when what they really need is to gain proficiency in the basic lifts and get control of their body.

[VelocityDiet]

Wrong, if you can't squat 270 lbs you need to be squatting more and not worrying about GMs. GMs are for your weak points...if you're squatting 270 the entire lift is a weak point. There's no need for someone squatting 135 to have to do GMs haha. I think you should focus on learning the lift more than supplementing it.