Growth Stimulus Training (GST)

[2020Wellness]

I'm nearing the end of my first macro cycle, I'm really enjoying the workouts and although it's still too early to tell, I feel like I'm getting stronger on my core lifts already. However I'm not seeing results in terms of size, even though I'm eating more I actually dropped 1.5 lb since I started and I somehow look less lean than before.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong in my program (previously posted here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post851219753) or if this something normal in GST and I will start seeing better results during the next cycles..

The fact is that if you're losing weight, you're not eating enough to be gaining mass. You might be eating more than you were before, but it still doesn't sound like it's enough. I don't know what you were doing before, but that must not have been enough to be gaining weight either. I'm not in charge of your nutrition, so I don't know much about you to say much more.

The main point though; if you are losing weight, and your goal is to gain muscle, you are not eating enough.

[2020Wellness]

Fact: The more muscle you gain, the harder it is to gain muscle.

I wish muscle gain was linear over time, but unfortunately it's not.......

The same goes for strength, which is also important to realize. If strength gains were linear over time, we'd all be benching buses and squatting trains!

[dbekoscke]

GST definitely works! I was able to gain so much mass and strength when I was focusing on it last year! Great write up!

[plushcube]

Just finished my first micro of first macro
And even now I can see some differences in my body and in my lifting weights (in compare with my previous routines). They are quite small but they are present!
I'm very happy and looking forward for next micro!

[2020Wellness]

An important watch for anyone wanting to give a fresh spin on GST a run and the free eBook contest within the video is still up for grabs!



I'm actually running this during my current bulk. Changing things up every now and then is great, but I do admit that I don't like changing to an entirely new program. This is great because it's new, but it's still GST!

Train Hard. Train Smart. Grow!

[gabster21]

The fact is that if you're losing weight, you're not eating enough to be gaining mass. You might be eating more than you were before, but it still doesn't sound like it's enough. I don't know what you were doing before, but that must not have been enough to be gaining weight either. I'm not in charge of your nutrition, so I don't know much about you to say much more.

The main point though; if you are losing weight, and your goal is to gain muscle, you are not eating enough.

That's quite possible, I was at maintenance before starting so I was hoping my increase in calories along with starting GST would help me gain some good mass. I re-weighed myself today and I'm about the same weight at which I started (maybe a bad weigh-in last time), I remember you saying that noticeable growth usually happens around the 2nd macrocycle so I'll report back my results then. Just raided the sushi and tepaniaki buffet last night so that should help

I still have half of my micro 4 left to go but so far my strength has gone up a lot on all my core lifts, weights in kg:

Front Squat: 90 -> 107 (estimated from micro 4)
Med Pullup: 115 -> 125 (estimated from micro 4)
BB Deadlift: 168 -> 176 (estimated from micro 3)
BB Flat Press: 110 -> 117 (estimated from micro 3)

Should I go with those values for my next macro? I'm thinking of cutting them down a little (by 3-5% depending on the lift) since they seem high and I don't want to stall my progression too quickly.

[2020Wellness]

That's quite possible, I was at maintenance before starting so I was hoping my increase in calories along with starting GST would help me gain some good mass. I re-weighed myself today and I'm about the same weight at which I started (maybe a bad weigh-in last time), I remember you saying that noticeable growth usually happens around the 2nd macrocycle so I'll report back my results then. Just raided the sushi and tepaniaki buffet last night so that should help

I still have half of my micro 4 left to go but so far my strength has gone up a lot on all my core lifts, weights in kg:

Front Squat: 90 -> 107 (estimated from micro 4)
Med Pullup: 115 -> 125 (estimated from micro 4)
BB Deadlift: 168 -> 176 (estimated from micro 3)
BB Flat Press: 110 -> 117 (estimated from micro 3)

Should I go with those values for my next macro? I'm thinking of cutting them down a little (by 3-5% depending on the lift) since they seem high and I don't want to stall my progression too quickly.

Just to reiterate, you need to be gaining weight over each macro if you want to see noticeable growth. If you aren't gaining weight, then you should not expect to look any different in terms of growth. Of course that isn't the case when cutting.

As far as the numbers to use go, you need to finish out the macrocycle, average the 1RM estimations from M3 and M4 and go from there. Make more sense? You don't want to be rushing things like it seems like you're doing. Just let the program ride for a solid 6-12 months, eat logically for your goals, and watch yourself change!

I can tell that you're expecting big changes within a macro or so, and that isn't realistic. You're not thinking about the big picture, which is a big mistake. Lengthen the view of your scope and you'll be happier.

[Swaaagasaur]

Just to reiterate, you need to be gaining weight over each macro if you want to see noticeable growth. If you aren't gaining weight, then you should not expect to look any different in terms of growth. Of course that isn't the case when cutting.

As far as the numbers to use go, you need to finish out the macrocycle, average the 1RM estimations from M3 and M4 and go from there. Make more sense? You don't want to be rushing things like it seems like you're doing. Just let the program ride for a solid 6-12 months, eat logically for your goals, and watch yourself change!

I can tell that you're expecting big changes within a macro or so, and that isn't realistic. You're not thinking about the big picture, which is a big mistake. Lengthen the view of your scope and you'll be happier.

So for example, my 1RM of squats from M3 was 259 lbs, and the 1RM from my M4 was 245 lbs, so (259+245)/2= 252 lbs
My new 1rm for my next macrocycle would be 252 lbs?

[lefthandedcigs]

So for example, my 1RM of squats from M3 was 259 lbs, and the 1RM from my M4 was 245 lbs, so (259+245)/2= 252 lbs
My new 1rm for my next macrocycle would be 252 lbs?

yep

[SimonThePieman]

I'm nearing the end of my first macro cycle, I'm really enjoying the workouts and although it's still too early to tell, I feel like I'm getting stronger on my core lifts already. However I'm not seeing results in terms of size, even though I'm eating more I actually dropped 1.5 lb since I started and I somehow look less lean than before.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong in my program (previously posted here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post851219753) or if this something normal in GST and I will start seeing better results during the next cycles..

eat more carbs.

1) you are not getting enough cals
2) lack of carbs in your muscles will leaves them looking flat

[lefthandedcigs]

2 more micros then im going to start a cut. once i start my 3rd macro, its time to shed some fat. i feel like im going pretty good. only put on 3%bf over the last 6 weeks or so.

do you guys adjust anything when cutting on gst?

[musclebound2012]

On training days I simply eat carbs in lunch time if I am training on evening, non training just morning oats for breaky and 1 fruit, lunch salad +tuna, chicken or red lean meat. Every 2 hr I usually eat eg 1 chicken strip if I suspect hunger pain. Same deal with dinner tuna+salad or chicken+salad or meat+salad.

Key point is here we just can't allow our body to feed on muscles hence losing them so frequent meal is the way to go.

Cheers

[FloridaGator]

I have read a lot of this thread ... in information overload ... need to ask some questions that I know have probably been answered.

What is a foam roll?

When is the best days to work in isolation work on arms, shoulders, and such? Was thinking on pull day after core and supp exercises to do some shoulder work. On press day after core and supp exercises to some arm work. Was going to work in ab work after exercises for Squat and Lift days. Is that okay?

I need to continue to run during each week. To keep from tiring my legs out I was going to do cardio days on the day after Squat and Lift days so I have as much rest/recover before the next Squat and Lift days. My micro schedule is going to be the day on day off plan ... so I think that should be okay ... thoughts?

Thanks!

[2020Wellness]

A question for YOU!

[lefthandedcigs]

I have read a lot of this thread ... in information overload ... need to ask some questions that I know have probably been answered.

What is a foam roll?

When is the best days to work in isolation work on arms, shoulders, and such? Was thinking on pull day after core and supp exercises to do some shoulder work. On press day after core and supp exercises to some arm work. Was going to work in ab work after exercises for Squat and Lift days. Is that okay?

I need to continue to run during each week. To keep from tiring my legs out I was going to do cardio days on the day after Squat and Lift days so I have as much rest/recover before the next Squat and Lift days. My micro schedule is going to be the day on day off plan ... so I think that should be okay ... thoughts?

Thanks!

the way this plan is set up you really dont need to directly work a lot of things. arms for example, are worked indirectly on press and pull days. although the plan he made for me does include 1 direct bi(bb curls) and 1 direct tri(skullcrushers). other than that you get indirect arm from from your press/pull motions. and honestly after only 1.5 macro's completed, ive noticed a size difference in my arms. i was pretty surprised

one thing i will admit is that i do really miss the ab work. only 3 per cycles makes me sad. before i was doing at least 3 diff sets of 3-4 ab workouts on every training day. but i havent really noticed much, if any strength loss in my core. the first few squat and deadlifts i could really feel a tightness in my midsection. although i have lost some definition. but at the same time im bulking so that was a little bit expected.


also - a foam roll is a 2-4ft long foam roll used for stretching. they will vary in density, but do help to loosen up your muscles. think of it as a steam roller smoothing out the knots in your muscles

[lefthandedcigs]

A question for YOU!

good question lol

im having trouble getting past 165. while i weighed more than that before i started working out and eating right, i havent been able to get past it in the last month or 2. ive kept track of macros and cals every day. curious to see the answer to this one. might have to do a little research myself.

[gabster21]

eat more carbs.

1) you are not getting enough cals
2) lack of carbs in your muscles will leaves them looking flat

I've been eating a lot of carbs, must have been a bad weigh in last time cuz I weighed myself this morning and weighed in at 83.3 kg.. an increase of 1.3kg!

Really enjoying GST so far, but I feel I have to make some changes to my Lift day since it's not leaving me as exhausted as the other days. Currently I'm doing it like this:

Core: BB Deadlifts
Sup1: Good Mornings
Sup2: Pullthroughs
Sup3: Seated Leg Curls
WPT: Calves

IMO the Good Mornings and Pullthroughs are too similar (they both tax my lower back), I'd like to replace the Pullthoughs with Power Cleans or Hang Cleans.. what would be the best choice? I'm open to suggestions for other exercises if anyone has had good experiences with them.

btw I can't do Hyperextentions or Roman Chair, GHR since I don't have the equipment in my gym

[rthawker]

I've been eating a lot of carbs, must have been a bad weigh in last time cuz I weighed myself this morning and weighed in at 83.3 kg.. an increase of 1.3kg!

Really enjoying GST so far, but I feel I have to make some changes to my Lift day since it's not leaving me as exhausted as the other days. Currently I'm doing it like this:

Core: BB Deadlifts
Sup1: Good Mornings
Sup2: Pullthroughs
Sup3: Seated Leg Curls
WPT: Calves

IMO the Good Mornings and Pullthroughs are too similar (they both tax my lower back), I'd like to replace the Pullthoughs with Power Cleans or Hang Cleans.. what would be the best choice? I'm open to suggestions for other exercises if anyone has had good experiences with them.

btw I can't do Hyperextentions or Roman Chair, GHR since I don't have the equipment in my gym

I was having trouble with my lower back during romanian deads and Ryan suggested BB hip thrusters. I have been enjoying this exercise and can really feel it's effects especially in my gluteus and hams.

[BigDog00]

2 more micros then im going to start a cut. once i start my 3rd macro, its time to shed some fat. i feel like im going pretty good. only put on 3%bf over the last 6 weeks or so.

do you guys adjust anything when cutting on gst?

I'm in the same boat as you are, I think we both started right about the same time. I've put on about 1.5% bf (up to about 16.5% total), but am ready to trim down for "bikini season". I personal am going to stick with the same program. I'm going to add in 2-3 days of cardio (i really haven't been doing any while on my bulk). And I am also planning on dropping my calorie intake to maintence for a week or two, then dropping below by a few hundred calories.

Good luck!

[2020Wellness]

Is immediate post workout nutrition a necessity? The truth behind post workout nutrition and the 'window of opportunity.'

Post workout meal timing doesn't actually need to revolve around your workout. A non-typical way of approaching post workout meal timing.

[lefthandedcigs]

I'm in the same boat as you are, I think we both started right about the same time. I've put on about 1.5% bf (up to about 16.5% total), but am ready to trim down for "bikini season". I personal am going to stick with the same program. I'm going to add in 2-3 days of cardio (i really haven't been doing any while on my bulk). And I am also planning on dropping my calorie intake to maintence for a week or two, then dropping below by a few hundred calories.

Good luck!

nice! wish i was only up 1.5% bf.

i still havent decided which way im going to go after this macro. ive been doing leangains more or less from the beginning of my first macro. i like it so much better than the typical 5-6 meals a day. ill eat 2-3 big meals in an 8 hr time frame and fast the other 16...give or take. im doing +30% on workout days and -10% on rest days. thinking about going to a +20/-20 and seeing how that goes.

another thing im trying to do is throw another ab workout in. im sitting at 9.4% bf and i just feel like i should have better definition than i do. who knows though. i do know ive put on some good size with gst. so i cant complain!

[Super_Ectomorph]

I have had some good results from your program, I was going to email you again soon. I was just wondering if you felt it was feasible for me to modify the program slightly for my new arm specific goal.

I was hoping to drop the squat day completely and do extra arm work, or is this overkill?
I could perhaps still have squats as an accessory on the new day, or an accessory on the lift day.

I was hoping it wouldn't overtrain me if I did an every other day workout, or even.. down to 3 times a week.
I thought I'd message here first in case you thought it wouldn't work, so I dont clutter up your inbox. Thanks.

[gabster21]

I've been eating a lot of carbs, must have been a bad weigh in last time cuz I weighed myself this morning and weighed in at 83.3 kg.. an increase of 1.3kg!

Really enjoying GST so far, but I feel I have to make some changes to my Lift day since it's not leaving me as exhausted as the other days. Currently I'm doing it like this:

Core: BB Deadlifts
Sup1: Good Mornings
Sup2: Pullthroughs
Sup3: Seated Leg Curls
WPT: Calves

IMO the Good Mornings and Pullthroughs are too similar (they both tax my lower back), I'd like to replace the Pullthoughs with Power Cleans or Hang Cleans.. what would be the best choice? I'm open to suggestions for other exercises if anyone has had good experiences with them.

btw I can't do Hyperextentions or Roman Chair, GHR since I don't have the equipment in my gym

Ok so yesterday was lift day and I substituted pullthroughs with full cleans.. very tough! But I felt they taxed my quads more than my hams/lower back, should I switch to power cleans instead (where you catch the bar much higher than a full squat)?

Update: I've been reading that cleans are more of an explosive and power building exercise but not really optimal for mass gaining. I will replace them with Romanian DLs instead.

[Zugu]

nice! wish i was only up 1.5% bf.

i still havent decided which way im going to go after this macro. ive been doing leangains more or less from the beginning of my first macro. i like it so much better than the typical 5-6 meals a day. ill eat 2-3 big meals in an 8 hr time frame and fast the other 16...give or take. im doing +30% on workout days and -10% on rest days. thinking about going to a +20/-20 and seeing how that goes.

another thing im trying to do is throw another ab workout in. im sitting at 9.4% bf and i just feel like i should have better definition than i do. who knows though. i do know ive put on some good size with gst. so i cant complain!

What Macro are you on?

[lefthandedcigs]

What Macro are you on?

today will be the last day of micro3/macro2

[Zugu]

Question: I’m going on vacation the day after I finish Macro 2 Micro 2, and I’m wondering if when I get back (two weeks later) if I should start the Macro over or just try and pick up where I left off.

Any suggestions?

[2020Wellness]

Question: I’m going on vacation the day after I finish Macro 2 Micro 2, and I’m wondering if when I get back (two weeks later) if I should start the Macro over or just try and pick up where I left off.

Any suggestions?

Beings that you're going to be coming back to fairly heavy lifting, I'd either repeat Micro 2 or restart the Macro entirely. I just don't like to see people coming off of a longer break to heavy lifting off the bat.

[vegasian05]

Starting micro 4 macro 1 toady and i have to say I think this is a great program. I definitley feel like im getting stronger and my 1rm's have gone up quite a bit (i think i might have undershot 1 or 2 of them in the beginning). I cant wait to finish this week out and get the average 1rm's for the next macro. Ive decided im gonna keep the same workouts for the next macro. Im debating on wether to keep bulking or cut for the next one. I put on a bit more fat than I wanted too. I did the 65% to 95% scheme on this macro.
Anyway my 1rm's so far are
Incline BB Bench 155 start up to 175
Deadlift 215 to 260
Box Squat 240 to 275
Underhand Lat Pulldown 230 to 240

I feel like I definitly undershot the deadlift but im ok with that cause its probably been 10 years since ive done it, so that will give me some time with the lighter weights to get the proper form down. The underhand lat pulldowns started as chinups so 230 was the 1rm for chinups, I just switched to underhand pulldowns because I really dont like using the chinup assistance machine. I might switch this to medium grip pulldowns macro 2 casue i really want more size in my lats. I feel like that would work them better then the underhand ones, what do you guys think? Ill come back at the end of the week and let you guys know what the average is for micros 3 and 4.

[Limi7L3ss]

Hey, I'm interested in your type of training after reading about it but I had some questions I haven't seen while lookin through yet.

I prefer flat bench to incline so would I flat BB bench main with supplement incline DB bench be as good as what you said you personally prefer? (incline BB flat DB)

Also if I do pull ups as main lift an do them weighted how does that work? Warm up then add weight that brings you to 4-6 reps and calculate 1RM and for it use 60% of what ever percentage you use on the added weight? I.e. say 20lbs is one rep max and you're using 50% for first microcycle you'd add just 10lbs?

Also how do you feel about some cardio and abs on off days?

Last is it just 2 supplement lifts per core lift day?

[kilgoreklink]

Fact: The more muscle you gain, the harder it is to gain muscle.

I wish muscle gain was linear over time, but unfortunately it's not.......

The same goes for strength, which is also important to realize. If strength gains were linear over time, we'd all be benching buses and squatting trains!

Hehehe, that just made me laugh. Thanks Ryan.