Are facepulls a safe exercise?

[Ecto9783]

This article says, no.

http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-face-pulls/

I always heard that they were a good movement to promote external rotation and trap involvement with the scapula in upward rotation to offset our "down and back" heavy programs.

Then I stumble upon this article. What gives?

[SuffolkPunch]

The arguments in that article look pretty weak to me. Rows may well use some scapular retraction (if you are strict with form) and external rotation - but it's a partial range of motion and that in itself can promote poor movement and tissue quality. That's what isolations exercises are for in my opinion - targeting the desired muscle through a complete range of motion.

I do L-flys instead of facepulls at the moment - although I have done them in the past and they've never done anything other than help. Of course I also row.

[ironwill2008]

This article says, no.

http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-face-pulls/

I always heard that they were a good movement to promote external rotation and trap involvement with the scapula in upward rotation to offset our "down and back" heavy programs.

Then I stumble upon this article. What gives?

It's an internet article with no citations; "opinions" are not facts. One of the reasons given to avoid the exercise is that they don't allow larger muscles to help, which is exactly why Face Pulls are recommended in the first place.



You'd do well to ignore that article, and probably everything else on that same site.

[sooby]

a lot of the arguments seem very weak. If somebody like me can easily refute these then you know the article is bad.

The row addresses the same muscles, and more, safely.

- Not necessarily, face pulls do it through a different range of motion and plane, rows are more of a full body exercise, I don't think it's always "safer" as it is easy to cheat and use imperfect form, rows are also way more fatiguing, and sometimes the objective is to use less muscles? For, you know, to target the ACTUAL muscle in isolation without interference from others. That's what isolations are for? Try asking somebody with lower back issues to row, just lol.

The latissimi dorsi fail to work hard.

- This argument literally makes no sense and makes a false and strawman appeal to what movements you would do in real life. People who are training for aesthetics and general strength don't give a fuk if the movement carries over or is similar to "rowing a person to save their life". They only care about movements that are most effective for building muscle and rehab/prehab. BRB bench pressing, bulgarian split squatting and doing leg extensions are effective exercises because you use them in real life. The effectiveness of an exercise for building muscle has little to do with applicability of the movement in real life. However building muscle and strength does have general applicability in real life anyway.

Repetition can harm you just as a heavy weight will.

- literally the worst and most potato argument that isn't even worth addressing because this is not an inherent feature of doing the face pull movement. This argument alone causes me to not take this article serious.

You allow shoulder impingement.

- can't really comment on this as i don't know too much about this stuff, but he posts zero sources for his claims and i've never heard of overhead movements being bad for your shoulders and it doesn't seem like an extreme range of motion. And while he makes the appeal to nature fallacy in his other argument but arguably lifting something overhead is also something "natural" (i.e: grabbing something from a height or lifting a child, keeping the object out of reach) but somehow this is dangerous. I do face pulls a bit differently tho, the omar isuf way.

[Ghawk21]

Avoiding facepulls because they fail to work the lats is like avoiding deadlifts because they fail to adequately work the calves.... Also as someone with shoulder impingement problems facepulls have done nothing but help. Chit opinion article. Disregard.

[Ecto9783]

Thanks for the replies guys. Dug a little bit deeper and apparently this guy is renown for "avoid _________ exercise" with an extensive list of the most basic and tried and true movements.

[SuffolkPunch]

Clickbait disinformation - fact of life on the internets...

[rlefebvr]

I had the same discussion not to long ago when I changed programs and it recommended face-pulls.

I was very concerned about shoulder impingement. There are several variations to do them and if you choose one with good form, there are very safe.

You can easily tell when a movement causes shoulder impingement, just stay away from those.

[MyEgoProblem]

facepulls...
thumbs pointing back, 'double bicep pose' version.

is possibily the SAFEST and most shoulder friendly lift you can perform. jeez some people are idiots. #clickbait views tho

spin on to 4mins for the tldr.
https://youtu.be/HSoHeSjvIdY


obviously you can butcher it and make it less safe, but i like to assume people arent morons lol. (joke is on me tbf)

[rlefebvr]

facepulls...
thumbs pointing back, 'double bicep pose' version.

is possibly the SAFEST and most shoulder friendly lift you can perform.

That is the one I do or close to it as I use bands.

No problems whatsoever with the shoulders.

[JaymzJ]

Short answer is yes. As long as you do it properly, I’ve recently been doing these before heavy benching or shoulder exercises and I have to say they work great for keeping the shoulders injury free. Need to protect those rotator cuffs.

[GeneralSerpant]

Thanks for the replies guys. Dug a little bit deeper and apparently this guy is renown for "avoid _________ exercise" with an extensive list of the most basic and tried and true movements.

Weirdly enough, that tends to happen with nutrition rhetoric you might come across also.