whats the forums thoughts on this?

**johngoomba** · 12-27-2009, 11:46 AM

i know this is a bit long i cant link you all cause im not allowed yet so i do apologise.i wondered of your thoughts on these q and a from the experts.it seems to suggest protein powders and high protein is pretty much a con.ive taken whey before for a year or so and then stopped and just ate normal meals for a year and i havent lost any muscle or not gained muscle since stopping and im 230 pounds and 6 ft 4 so is this protein fad worth it or a con?

Q

I just wanted to let you know that your information regarding protein requirements for weight training is being debated on the news groups called misc.fitness.weights. The title of the debate is "MetRx Protein Debate". I'm speaking of your protein topic.

I'm hoping that you will join the discussion and contribute with some empirical data, as most of what is submitted is anecdotal comments. As I'm sure you already know, these hyper-protein consumption views are held very staunchly by body builders and suggesting evidence to the contrary has to be done very tactfully. So, if you want a challenge (and an interesting experience), please drop by news group. Thanks.

A

I have worked with body builders before at the university where I taught. You and a few others seem to be responding appropriately to the excessive protein believers. I read a few of the messages and unfortunately, some body builders just don't listen to research and would rather listen to testimonials. I report research findings not testimonials. I focus on people who want valid info to make lifestyle changes, not supplement pushers.

Q

I saw a patient who is taking whey as powder in shakes and creatine, and other amino acid supplement to define his muscle. These supplements are very expensive as you know. I discourage him from doing this, but I wondered if there was any medical research or articles of any kind to back this recommendation up. This patient is 6 feet tall and weighs only 160 pounds. His diet is deficient in calories which I already told him and gave him Nancy Clark sports info. Thanks for your help!

A

Whey is the clear liquid that is left after cheese curds are removed during cheese making. It is often dried and used as an ingredient in other foods. Whey contains lactose, milk solids and protein. Hope this athlete isn't lactose intolerant.

Weight lifters or body builders who want to cut muscle (show defined muscles in competitions) often get sucked into taking protein or amino acid supplements. These supplements do not build muscle and combined with an already high protein intake, often stress their kidney function. You mention that this athlete is deficient in calories. If so, then he is burning protein as a very expensive fuel. Unfortunately, weight lifters and body builders sometimes don't listen to reasonable nutrition advice while looking for the quick fix. Nancy Clark is an excellent source of sports nutrition information.

Has he tried my Healthy Body Calculator? It will predict a healthy weight, even for lean athletes as well as a personalized Nutrition Facts report based on their nutritional
goals i.e. % of calories from fat, protein and carb as well as weight change.

Q

Questions:

1) What modern research can you point to that says protein needs don't increase with heavy muscle tissue breakdown? Modern research on sports nutrition I've seen indicates time and again that protein needs increase, often drastically, in weight training subjects. Otherwise, much less than optimal benefit is derived from that exercise, the body simply is not afforded the opportunity to rebuild itself quickly and adequately.

2) As opposed to quantity, what is the quality of the protein ingested? Incomplete proteins may be of little or no benefit to the athlete, as you are probably well aware, but your readers may not be.

3) Regarding the specific quantity of 63 grams: Does the weight lifter weigh 150 lb. or 300 lb.? To suggest so specific a number for ALL males, regardless of their biochemical individuality and weight variation and intensity of workout is beyond my comprehension.

4) For your future reference as a RD, MetRx is an engineered food formulated by Scott Connelly, MD. It was originally conceived in the context of helping patients in severely catabolic states (such as burn patients) to be able to retain lean body mass through aggressive nutritional intervention. Bodybuilders found out about the product and started using it with great success to build as quickly as possible. Dr. Connelly now markets the product for those who want to recompose their body's muscle-to-fat ratio. One serving has 37 grams of very high quality protein and only 260 calories.

I'm approaching 40, have lifted weights for 23 years now and have read every sort of hype from both the commercial and scholarly sides for almost as many years. I am extremely fit, maintain a very low body fat percentage and workout very hard, while recovering very quickly. One thing I've discovered from EXPERIENCE, regardless of what a few so called "experts" say, is that keeping lots of high quality protein in my gut throughout the day is the key I'd been looking for in maximizing my health and physique. And I am still looking for someone to show me any research that shows high protein intake damages normal and healthy kidneys and livers in humans. That's another one of those nutritional myths, repeated endlessly by the "experts.

Just last week, a teacher at the school here was arrogantly telling me that my diet was dangerous, that she had an MA in biochemistry. People standing around listening were snickering at her, because they could see what my body and posture looked like, as she was standing there, 40 lb. overweight and smoking a cigarette. The "expert."

A

The RDA for protein for adult males is 63 grams per day. Athletes can maintain protein equilibrium (muscle building equals muscle breakdown) on 1 gram of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. So take your weight, divide by 2.2 then multiply by 1. In fact most persons can achieve protein equilibrium (positive nitrogen balance) at 0.6 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram per day.

According to Dr. Carol Meredith at the University of California at Davis, muscle protein synthesis decreases during exercise and nearly doubles during recovery. Research she has shows that additional protein (studies of 1.35 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day) does not increase muscle mass or strength. In addition resistance exercise like weight lifting is a powerful anabolic (building) process that improves protein synthesis (increased muscle mass).

In fact what athletes need is increased caloric intake (60 calories per kilogram of body weight per day) which may contain protein food sources as well. One inherent problem with increasing protein from food sources, is you are probably also increasing fat content.

The supplement you are taking is 56% protein. Remember that your body can break down protein in food and break down muscle protein for energy if insufficient calories are consumed. So you may be burning expensive protein for fuel.

In regards to incomplete proteins, you are misinformed. If a person daily eats a variety of legumes (beans, peas, nuts), seeds, fruits, vegetables and grains, they will get all the amino acids an adult needs in sufficient quantity to supply all 8 essential amino acids. According to Dr. Peter Pellett at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, the limiting amino acid is lysine, which would be a concern in persons eating only grains. I would suggest you read the vegetarian topic.

There is no food or supplement that will by itself convert fat to muscle as you indicate MetRx does all by itself. Otherwise, persons wanting to lose weight would have found instant success with it long ago. The only ways I know to lose body fat and replace it with muscle is through exercise, aerobic and weight training.

Burn patients lose lots of protein through the burn site which body builders do not. Body builder's protein losses are through sweat, urine and feces, the majority of which is not protein. When muscle is broken down during weight training, it frees amino acids into the blood which can then be recycled within the body unlike the burn patient whose protein loses are soaked up by gauze dressings. You are mixing apples and oranges.

There is lots of nutrition hype, most untrue in weight lifting and bodybuilding. While at the University of Minnesota, Duluth, I taught sports nutrition for several years, worked with college athletes, Olympic athletes and yes-competitive body builders. If you want nutrition expertise, ask a Registered Dietitian. Second, if you want exercise expertise, ask an exercise physiologist. Unfortunately your high school coach and the biochemistry teacher may not have the education and experience to provide "expert" nutrition advice. Think of the opportunity you missed with the biochemistry teacher to "teach" her what you have learned so that she could consider a more healthy lifestyle.

Lastly, remember that we are practicing nutrition like doctor's practice medicine. Nutrition science has changed even in the length of time I have been practicing. We don't have it perfect yet and recommendations like drinking water during exercise has changed over the years as a result of new research.

Q

What are the benefits and problems associated with amino acid supplements, particularly a supplement with a wide variety of amino acids, for an individual on a heavy workout schedule and a high carbohydrate diet? I have heard that L-tryptophan supplements are associated with a blood disease, is this true?

A

There is no research to support any benefit to taking amino acid supplements for persons who exercise. Amino acids are either essential (8 can't be made by the body and must come from a source outside the body) or non-essential (12 that can be made within the body from essential amino acids). If you take an amino acid supplement, make sure it is contains only essential amino acids (isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine) or you are wasting your money. Amino acids eaten in crystalline form will be absorbed directly into the blood stream. Your body can only use so much protein and any excess is used for energy or stored as fat. Your body uses protein to build and repair lean tissue (muscles and organs).

Weight lifting will increase muscle size and the average US diet and the RDA contains enough protein (females 50 gm and males 63 gm per day) to promote an increase in muscle mass. Some weight lifters talk about lifting breaking down their muscles. Any movement of protein out of muscles will go into the blood pool of amino acids that is available to all lean tissue. Research has shown that the uptake of amino acids improves in weight lifters during recovery after exercise.

A healthy person does not loose significant protein other than through hair and nails. So the protein and amino acids you eat stay in your body.

Q

In a well-balanced 1500 calorie a day diet,. what is too much protein (in grams) to consume ? I am involved in weight training and really feel better when I eat MORE protein than is advised in various charts. Why is too much (assuming the protein I am eating is high quality, low fat, which it is) bad for you ? What harm does it cause ?

A

Unfortunately, there is lots of hype involved in weight training. Most of it not backed by research. Actually muscle synthesis decreases during exercise and nearly doubles during recovery between training according to Dr. Carol Meredith of the University of California at Davis. She also stated that additional protein does not increase muscle mass or strength.