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  1. #181
    Registered User closser45's Avatar
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    I really want to train like this but I have a meet in about 8 weeks and i'm not sure if its too close to start a completely different type of training?
    360x3/220x3/400x4

  2. #182
    GH15 approved Ka0s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scott_donald View Post
    the FI thread... some of them certainly are not just weak ass training gurus...
    It's not on FI.

  3. #183
    Registered User adogruzza's Avatar
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    FOR POWERLIFERS.

    Powerlifting eyes were blind for a long time, overall in USA. Too much WSB, and no one looked at what happened in Europe, where IPF lifters dominate the world. So the first reaction was : they are on steroid. We are clean.
    Whe comes out Sheiko training (8 trainings x week, lots of volume) firstly the reaction was: they are on steroid, we cannot handle this volume. Luckly come out some smart lifters (like Talmant, or Hooper) that open peoples eyes also in USA.
    I hope Coach Broz could be the same for "General Adaptation Style training".


    It's long time since I was wandering "how to put abadjiev on powerlifting"??

    As I'm a Powerlifting (IPF) trainier, reading this 3d was like drinking gasoline for my ideas.


    BROZ STYLE POWERLIFTING!
    So 2 weeks ago I started with 3 lifters (chosen by mental attitude not for level)using more ore less the training plan Coach Broz suggest me.
    I had knee injured, but i try myselft too with only bench press. I'm a very technical lifters in the bp, and i think this help me to recover faster even doing it 6 x week.
    More important, i want to try for myself because doing any kind of stuff gives you feedback, that not always your athlets are able to interpretate.

    PLAN:
    I added some gear work (in IPF there are gear, not hard core, but gear), I add a floor press day (doubles) and a shirt press day. Im still in "trials and errors" phase, as english motherlanguage are used to say.

    I think that Technique is the key point. Russian dominate us in powerlifting thanks to biiiig volume of work on PERFECT TECHINQUE. Sheiko is still by far the greatest powerlifting coach of ever and ever.
    That's clear looking at worldchampionship. Technique= speed. Speed with high % = many kg on the bar = with gear all is bigger.

    ==== i think powerlifters must go not always for is best, but for his best of the day in the best technicall way.
    In weightlifting if you are slow and not technique you loose a snatch. IN powerlifting you cuold complete a bench press slowly and poutting your shoulders forward.

    2 weeks result:
    athlets are all very "high". It's very long time since a found so much desire to train, even after a hard working/studing day. I cannot appreciate real result, but 2 weeks are very few.
    They just try a real max in squat "suit s down", and squat with light chain (not too heavy, in order to not change the original pattern)

    I personally had to work a lot on warmup set, because the risk for bench press is to loose PERFECT technique, wich is very important in that lift (even if many cannot understand that point). I think this is the issue.

    Hope to share some ideas with other.

    My only very first thought is that, with a great technique (very fast press, perfect descent, press like in a trainways exetera) we could do bench press more than, 2, 3 x week. Trials and error, let's go on.
    Thanks coach.

  4. #184
    Registered User Korr's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Just wanted to thank Broz for all the information he is sharing in this thread.

    Also, thanks for the training today.

    I plan on making various trips to train with you more in the future.

  5. #185
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by closser45 View Post
    I really want to train like this but I have a meet in about 8 weeks and i'm not sure if its too close to start a completely different type of training?
    I'd wait for after your meet to do it. To do it smart, you should transition into it by doing max workouts once every three to four days, and then over the course of a week or two, switch to max every other day, then a few weeks later switch to max everyday, and just keep doing this until you find the volume that you can deal with. If you just jump into it 14/wk you will hate your life.
    Olympic Weightlifting: Cuban Method
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=703396581

    Snatch: 97kg
    Clean and jerk: 120kg
    Front squat 160kg
    Back squat: 170kg

  6. #186
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Question for John:

    I've worked up to two sessions/day maxes pretty easy (no new PR's yet but have hit some old squat PR's). Anyways, all the stuff I read, you say that Sunday is only squats for one session. Why not just do the same thing everyday?

    And I've noticed something extremely strange that the only time I experience pain is during training sessions. When I snatch, pain appears in tricep then disappears. Then CnJ pain is wrist and shoulder then disappears. Then squat pain is in the feet then disappears. When I finish training there is no soreness or pain.




    Edit: I have hit a +10lb front squat PR since writing this question.
    Last edited by crackyflipside; 01-17-2010 at 08:17 PM.
    Olympic Weightlifting: Cuban Method
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=703396581

    Snatch: 97kg
    Clean and jerk: 120kg
    Front squat 160kg
    Back squat: 170kg

  7. #187
    Registered User ulfhednar's Avatar
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    Mr.Broz, earlier in this thread you said that you make your athletes deadlift only a couple of times a year, im thinking to concentrate on squats and powercleans in my routine because by the time I was done with maxing out on squats and then doing back off sets, and 30 reps of powercleans prior to that, even thinking of deadlifts after that made me want to colapse heh so I did romanian deadlifts instead of regular ones. I think I will try maxing out on regular deadlifts once every 2 or 3 months, while replacing them with romanian deadlifts during the time Im improving my powerclean. What do you think of that?

  8. #188
    Registered User Neuro_Doc's Avatar
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    Hey Mr. Broz,

    I jumped right in to the powerlifting template you recommended. Squats every morning at 5am are a great way to start the day. I missed the feeling of "numb legs". lol

    I have 24/7 access to a sauna and whirlpool which I never use. It seems like an untapped resource, but information online about how to use them seems contradictory. Do you have any suggestions? Are recovery modalities like this even useful with this form of training?

    And not to get too personal, but do you have any idea what Antonio Krastev is up to these days? It's always nice to see how our old heroes are getting on in life.

    Thanks very much.

  9. #189
    Registered User ss4vegeta1's Avatar
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    BroKnows did you get my pm?
    Distraction is an obstruction for the construction.

    “The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.”

    Kakarot!

  10. #190
    Registered User 1369phil's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Neuro_Doc View Post
    Hey Mr. Broz,

    And not to get too personal, but do you have any idea what Antonio Krastev is up to these days? It's always nice to see how our old heroes are getting on in life.

    Thanks very much.
    I'm sure I read that Krastev is back home coaching a small club (names after him) - I think Mr Broz wrote this on another forum

  11. #191
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Neuro_Doc View Post
    I have 24/7 access to a sauna and whirlpool which I never use. It seems like an untapped resource, but information online about how to use them seems contradictory. Do you have any suggestions? Are recovery modalities like this even useful with this form of training?.

    I still use recovery methods with this program mostly because I find it helps to get to sleep quicker. Here are a few different methods and the effects:


    15min whirlpool - Temp around 105-110F, warms whole body, body will react like extreme heat, lots of fluid loss so bring a bottle of water, take a cool shower at the end, loosens up muscles and is very relaxing.

    Descending shower - In shower start with water hot and over time progressively drop the water colder and colder, making adjustments that are not shocking but the colder water should just feel more refreshing, end at coldest, very relaxing, do this recovery method before bed.



    These are better suited for individual body parts with extreme soreness:

    Contrast shower - In shower start with water as hot as you can stand for a few minutes until skin gets red and hot to the touch (2-5min), it opens up the blood vessels in your muscles, then take the water off of you and put it the coldest it can go and when it gets to the coldest put the water back on the muscle, it should be a shocking change of temperature and keep cold water on muscle until the muscle is very cold to the touch (2-5min), this causes all the blood vessels to contract. Cycle hot and cold a few times but always end on cold.

    Foam rolling - can be done with everything from foam roller, to pvc, to baseball, to deodorant can, to drumstick, to hands. The point of this massage is to find the tight muscle and using extreme pressure, roll along the body of the muscle until tightness is felt. When you find an area of tight muscle maintain extreme pressure on it until the muscle gives way and becomes lose, it will take around 5 minutes. You know you do it right when you feel physically sick immediately afterwards.

    Electrical massage - Using an adjustable EMS machine, place electrodes the correct way on muscle (+ on muscle belly and - on muscle stem closest to spine) settings are 2-8hz, highest pulse width, highest intensity you can stand, 15 min for muscles.This method is the only one I know that can completely end muscle soreness for at least long enough to get a great night sleep.
    Olympic Weightlifting: Cuban Method
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=703396581

    Snatch: 97kg
    Clean and jerk: 120kg
    Front squat 160kg
    Back squat: 170kg

  12. #192
    Registered User Neuro_Doc's Avatar
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    @1369phil - It's good to hear that about Krastev. I was told he was basically shafted by USAW. That's not just a shame, it's f-ing insane.

    @crackyflipside - That's some great info! I can definitely use these, and I believe I still have an old TENS unit lying around here as well. Very useful.

    Thanks again for the replies guys.

  13. #193
    Registered User adogruzza's Avatar
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    Hello Neuro Doc,

    would you like to share your experience and risults in using General Adaptation Theory (Abadjiev style) for powerlifting? It's totally a new world, so more empiric results more ideas. (sorry, bad english)
    Thank you

  14. #194
    Registered User 1369phil's Avatar
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    For those who are interested, my attempts at this style will be logged here :

    www dot powerliftinguk dot com - Phil's journal (I can't post links until I've hit 30 posts)

    My current PRs (kilos) are BS 200 BP 130 DL 220 (competition) - I've done a 150 BP in the gym and have recently done a 140 FS

    Onwards and upwards - despite a horrible cold, managed a 190 BS and 140 BP today.

  15. #195
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 1369phil View Post
    For those who are interested, my attempts at this style will be logged here :

    http://www.powerliftinguk.com/showth...Phil-s-journal

    My current PRs (kilos) are BS 200 BP 130 DL 220 (competition) - I've done a 150 BP in the gym and have recently done a 140 FS

    Onwards and upwards - despite a horrible cold, managed a 190 BS and 140 BP today.
    Edited it in for you mate.

    Nice to see they've cleaned up the PLUK forums a bit, much more readable
    Koyongi: I am going to accomplish this by following a haphazard training system, and forging elite fitness.

  16. #196
    Registered User 1369phil's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fluster View Post
    Edited it in for you mate.

    Nice to see they've cleaned up the PLUK forums a bit, much more readable
    Thank you, sir

  17. #197
    Registered User Neuro_Doc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adogruzza View Post
    Hello Neuro Doc,

    would you like to share your experience and risults in using General Adaptation Theory (Abadjiev style) for powerlifting? It's totally a new world, so more empiric results more ideas. (sorry, bad english)
    Thank you
    Hello Ado,

    My experience using "General Adaptation Theory" for powerlifting is very limited. I did use the system for back squats (olympic weightlifting) when I was younger and gained 50+kg within 14 months. I worked up to 272.5kg (from 220kg). My body weight was 110kg at the time. I will be trying to reproduce these results in the next few months.

    I can tell you that some very good powerlifters have used similar systems (daily training up to a weight close to or exceeding their max) in the past.

    Jim Williams used to bench press up to a daily max (around 650lbs) 5 times a week. His max at the time was 700. Doug Hepburn used to lift within 20lbs of his max for several singles each session. He would do this three times a week. Bob Peoples would deadlift 5 times a week up to a set weight within 25lbs of his max. IPF lifter Vladimir Volkov is currently breaking world records by training his bench press 4+ times a week.

    Right now I am squatting in the mornings before work every day. A 500lb squat is an easy weight for me to do on a regular basis. I have been attempting to lift that weight every day, and working up heavier when my body allows it.

    I am using the same system in the evenings for bench press (using 405lbs as my goal weight for each session).

    As for deadlift, I am still not sure how I want to add it to the program. I may just leave it out for the time being and focus on pushing my squat to 600 and bench press to 450 on a regular basis.

    These are the weights I worked up to this past week.
    Tuesday - Squat 515lbs / Bench 405lbs
    Wednesday - Squat 530lbs / Bench 410lbs
    Thursday - Squat 500lbs / Bench 405lbs
    Friday - Squat 500lbs / Bench 420lbs
    Saturday - Squat 535lbs / Bench 435lbs - my body was very sore today, but my strength was the best for the week
    Sunday - Squat 315lbs / Bench 225lbs (light day)
    Monday - Squat 520lbs / did not bench press yet...

    I eat a normal diet, and get 8 hours of sleep a night. I am not using any anabolics. I feel fine training this way, my body responds very well to it. I just need to make sure to not do any other "assistance" lifts which will take away my adaptive ability.

    To tell you the truth, working up to daily maxes on these two lifts is pretty easy. I have a power rack in my garage and it's no big deal to go out and spend 40 minutes on a lift. I don't see why people would assume otherwise.

    I hope I answered your question. I am interested in any information you have about this style of training as well. Take care, my friend.

    (Non ti preoccupare, il mio italiano cattivo come pure! :-) )
    Last edited by Neuro_Doc; 01-18-2010 at 03:42 PM.

  18. #198
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    Neuro_Doc

    Interesting stuff - what sets/reps do you do after the max attempts ?

    Do you get any shoulder problems ?

    I like the idea of morning and evening sessions.

  19. #199
    Registered User NoMojoPin's Avatar
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    Hypertrophy?

    This is a great thread. Its not often you get some going against the grain but has the evidence to back up the claims

    John, you gave some examples for powerlifters/strongmen, how have you approached muscle gain, does higher frequency still count since it primarily increases neural efficiency? which isn't necessarily (at least i think) required to get bigger? would you just keep the reps higher (5+)?

    Thanks

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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    This is an awesome post and something I think everyone should take to heart. I actually have a question though, how many (or what %) of lifters that you train "wash out" as in eventually quit because of how hard your training is? I ask because there was a thread about your methodologies on another board, and a bunch of weak-ass internet gurus claim that your training style only works for something retarded like 1 out of every 100 lifters and the rest fail miserably. I can link you if need be.
    It's not like the minute someone walks in the door I grab a whip or cattle prod and go after them. I LOVE lifting and realize that some people sign on 100% from day one and some need to "fall in love" with lifting. I have a 16 yr old girl lifting now. She originally came in about 3x/month. I made it fun for her. Let her set a few pr's in some way each time she came in. After a while she came in more often and more often. Now the bug has bit her. she is there everyday and even came in 2x on saturday. I take it easy on her so she doesn't get frustrated too often. I really want to build a solid foundation of fundamental core strength and perfect technique. There is no hurry for her, so why try to burn her out. If she continues, I would guess that she will be a premier 63 in this country in 3 years.

    The unmotivated ones don't "burn out" they really never COMMIT enough to burn out.
    for those lifters, I try to motivate them in other ways to try to bring out the animal instinct. Some just don't possess it, so they come lift, and have a good attitude, have fun, and sit back and watch the others make more progress then them.

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    Originally Posted by metal-head- View Post
    How would you train someone with a back injury? I've had a lower back twinge the last couple of months (i can feel it most of the time) and it doesn't seem to want to go away. Is my best option to just stop squating/deadlifting all together and see if it goes away? What kind of program should i be doing?
    I would continue to train. I would do any thing that can work around the injury(if it is a true injury) even do partial movements just to keep the body working.

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    Originally Posted by closser45 View Post
    I really want to train like this but I have a meet in about 8 weeks and i'm not sure if its too close to start a completely different type of training?
    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    I'd wait for after your meet to do it. To do it smart, you should transition into it by doing max workouts once every three to four days, and then over the course of a week or two, switch to max every other day, then a few weeks later switch to max everyday, and just keep doing this until you find the volume that you can deal with. If you just jump into it 14/wk you will hate your life.
    agreed

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    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    Question for John:

    I've worked up to two sessions/day maxes pretty easy (no new PR's yet but have hit some old squat PR's). Anyways, all the stuff I read, you say that Sunday is only squats for one session. Why not just do the same thing everyday?

    And I've noticed something extremely strange that the only time I experience pain is during training sessions. When I snatch, pain appears in tricep then disappears. Then CnJ pain is wrist and shoulder then disappears. Then squat pain is in the feet then disappears. When I finish training there is no soreness or pain.




    Edit: I have hit a +10lb front squat PR since writing this question.

    ok - once you achieve max in each lift, drop down 10-15kg and do 5x2 in each S and C/J. Start this for the PM sessions everyday. Remember - once you adapt to one thing add more. Max is ok? then do additional volume. you are on the right path my padawan.

    Pain? HAHAHA! get used to it. I NEVER said this would be easy nor pain free. Pain = train. Injury = emergency room. Which is it?

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    Originally Posted by ulfhednar View Post
    Mr.Broz, earlier in this thread you said that you make your athletes deadlift only a couple of times a year, im thinking to concentrate on squats and powercleans in my routine because by the time I was done with maxing out on squats and then doing back off sets, and 30 reps of powercleans prior to that, even thinking of deadlifts after that made me want to colapse heh so I did romanian deadlifts instead of regular ones. I think I will try maxing out on regular deadlifts once every 2 or 3 months, while replacing them with romanian deadlifts during the time Im improving my powerclean. What do you think of that?
    RDL's? You have a meet where that's the 3rd lift? NO? forget that nonsense and do the lifts in which you are going to compete in. Going to collapse? start by DL 50kg. Do something, anything to get used to going through the motions. Even the empty bar would be a +.

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    Originally Posted by Neuro_Doc View Post

    I have 24/7 access to a sauna and whirlpool which I never use. It seems like an untapped resource, but information online about how to use them seems contradictory. Do you have any suggestions? Are recovery modalities like this even useful with this form of training?
    I tried many, many, many things over the years. I tried Krastev's suggestion of putting cabbage on my knees, wrapped with newspaper and sitting in a hot sauna for 30 min. didn't do jack! Tried going out to the pool in the middle of winter and standing in freezing cold water upto my elbows (my johnson was not a fan) and then stagger to a waiting hot tub. back and forth for contrast therapy. Tens units, massage 2x/day, etc. etc. Nothing seemed worth the trouble. The ONLY thing that ever helped was sleep and training more.

    Having a good diet also helped tons. That alone helped more than anything else. Lots of water, eating immediately after lifting, balanced diet, etc.

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    Originally Posted by NoMojoPin View Post
    how have you approached muscle gain, does higher frequency still count since it primarily increases neural efficiency? which isn't necessarily (at least i think) required to get bigger? would you just keep the reps higher (5+)?

    Thanks
    Honestly, I never concerned myself with size. I always left that to the bodybuilders. I love Bruce Lee's outlook on "useless muscle". Personally I have always tried to be as efficient as possible. I wish I could weigh 140lbs and still lift what I do.

    I have noticed that if you do totally raw lifts and lift big barbells, no matter what rep scheme you use, it seems that you gain size. Personally I believe it's in the speed in which you lift and overall volume more so than the reps involved that increase size. I never did any extensive research on the different types (IIa, Ia,red, white,etc.) muscle fibers so I can't support this. I do know that I have seen many World Record holders and most were pretty muscular even considering that most OLifters usually never exceed 3 reps.

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    Originally Posted by BrozKnows View Post
    Honestly, I never concerned myself with size. I always left that to the bodybuilders. I love Bruce Lee's outlook on "useless muscle". Personally I have always tried to be as efficient as possible. I wish I could weigh 140lbs and still lift what I do.

    I have noticed that if you do totally raw lifts and lift big barbells, no matter what rep scheme you use, it seems that you gain size. Personally I believe it's in the speed in which you lift and overall volume more so than the reps involved that increase size. I never did any extensive research on the different types (IIa, Ia,red, white,etc.) muscle fibers so I can't support this. I do know that I have seen many World Record holders and most were pretty muscular even considering that most OLifters usually never exceed 3 reps.
    Wow, thanks for that response. I'm truly loving your logic, it's quite contrary to the usual stuff out there and quite refreshing. I just have another enquiry, I am trying to be a shot putter, I'm overfat, 30%bf, so I'm taking some time off shot putting to correct this flaw as I don't move so great, my approach was going to be to spend some time just cutting then building back up (hence my question about hypertrophy) whilst working on my weak points such as hamstrings/glutes and pressing strength. But I'm beginning to see things with your logic, is cutting just time wasted for me (that Olympic clock is ticking!)? How might you approach it?

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    Originally Posted by BrozKnows View Post
    ok - once you achieve max in each lift, drop down 10-15kg and do 5x2 in each S and C/J. Start this for the PM sessions everyday. Remember - once you adapt to one thing add more. Max is ok? then do additional volume. you are on the right path my padawan.

    Pain? HAHAHA! get used to it. I NEVER said this would be easy nor pain free. Pain = train. Injury = emergency room. Which is it?
    Sound advice, Master John Broz Kenobi. You missed the question on Sundays and why they are only squatting for one session?

    Last Sunday I did BS max first session, then next session did FS max as well as misc assistance (prehab). I know you hate the word assistance but it was more high rep stuff (5-8rep) with light weights to work on a few parts that I feel are weak points. The pain is not an issue, I just found it funny that the pain only appears during training sessions then vanishes.
    Olympic Weightlifting: Cuban Method
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=703396581

    Snatch: 97kg
    Clean and jerk: 120kg
    Front squat 160kg
    Back squat: 170kg

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    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    You missed the question on Sundays and why they are only squatting for one session?
    If you can add more volume or intensity, go for it. The reason I don't do it on Sunday is simple: I spend enough time at the gym and personally don't want to be there 7 days a week for 6 hours. On sunday I want to be in/out as fast as possible. It's only about 60-90 min. It's MY rest day.

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    Coach...how do you handle injuries like tendinitis, runner's knees, tennis elbow etc.. ? you work through the pain with lighter weight keeping the "same routine" or do you follow a specific rehab pattern.. rest is out of the question I assume
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