Looking at buying a prewo called Anadraulic Pump

[vermontplaya]

It's brand new, the price is really good for a prewo and the propriety blend looks good enough to take right after a long boring lecture to keep me motivated and energized to finish my workout at my university's gym instead of going straight home and napping.

I have already have my staples + diet + training in check, just looking at a new prewo. I really dig the ratio of price/serving.

[legalgear]

It's got a good profile, I hope you like it. It's time for a pure play NO product with no vein killing creatine in it...

[IrishCannon]

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Just slam some 15mins before your workout and you're in for a treat!

Have you looked into GHenerate at all? It's an insanely good stack if you were looking to add anything else.

[IrishCannon]

Is there any caffeine in it? If so how much?

Just curious.

Nope, no caffeine, just Geranium Oil.

Here's the final review on Anadraulic Pump from a user on another forum:

"Final Review of Anadraulic Pump

First I would like to thank LG again for the opptunity to try this new product out, I definetely had a good run with this. LG had just recently had a pre-sale of this and I got myself 3 tubs of AP after this run. Can't wait to stack this with anadraulic state, ghenerate, and some bc+eaa. Should be an awesome time there. Maybe a new stack that can be offered by LG at a discounted price since we get 3 products. (wink, wink)

I already have been recomending this to everyone I know. I definetely noticed a increase in clean energy, a clear mental focus, increased endurance, and some good pumps. I think the longer I you take this product the stronger the pumps would have gotten.

For dosing I first started out at 1 serving to gauge my tolerance. It was decent at 1 serving. My next time I up'ped it to 2 servings about 30mins before workout and it was great! Then I wanted to try it at 3 so I had to ration out my servings and did 2 more workouts at 1 serving which were both awesome workouts. Finally my last day on it I took 3 servings pre workout and it was amazing! I got a full body workout in and had enough stamina to swim afterwards. Why I liked this product soo much was because prior to this I would have a hard time getting through a full body workout and after this I would blow through one no problem and still have energy left over!!! I believe this product should be dosed at 2-3 servings.

So lemme now review on the logging points:

Mood 9 - I was always happy and excited to workout after taking this. Probably just happiness over I am trying such a good product and not the actual product but this stuff really gave me some good energy so when I was dead tired, like after a 12hr shift at the hospital I would come home and just be excited that I get to workout and have enough energy to get though it all

Energy 10 I gave this a FULL 10. I rated it this way because as stated above this stuff really did give me a good clean energy. I work a very strenous job that involves alot of walking, pushing, pulling, lifting, and moving for 12 hours non stop. I usually get home from work and end up on the couch watching tv thinking about working out and then next thing I know i'm asleep. But with AP it was totally different. I would come home drink my ap and lay on couch and then about 30 mins pop right off the couch and start moving weight!

Pump 8 I gave the pumps an 8 but I think with a longer supply I would have rated it higher. The reason is because ever since my first workout the pumps would steadily come a littler stronger every time after. Even at 1 serving I would notice a muscle fullness and tightness.

Focus 9 I left in my basement most times and have a real bad habit of having the TV on in the background and sometimes I would get sucked into a show and over step my 90sec rest period but with this I would only concentrate on my weights. Also one day in my log I was lifting and lost track of time (I was so deeply focused on lifting ) well I forgot I had to be ready for class and my friend shows up for class. So I throw on some clothes and head out the door. Well at class I noticed a more attentiveness and was really paying more attention and listening to the lecture where I would usually day dream and browse AM on my phone.

Vascularity 7 - I didnt really noice much of an increased vascularity. I could notice my veins pop out more in my forearms more then normal. I think it is because I am packing 20% bodyfat so it is hard for them veins to pop through all that blubber

Taste 10 This is by far the best tasting lemonade supp I have ever had, and I had quite a few (I dunno why almost every company wants to flavor their products lemonade..) So anyway I am usually sick of these lemonade supps but AP was surprisingly refreshing. It actuall tasted like a lemonade drink!! I had no problem drinking this. Only time was at 3 servings when I mixed it in my shaker cup it was a little stronger then i would have liked but I think it needed more water.

Mixability 8 This mixed very well. The only reason I gave it an 8 is because at the very end of the drink it would have those little granules that wouldn't dissolve. But most products end up this way towards the end of the drink. Overall it was a very smooth pleasent drink

Sides - No negative sides what so ever. The energy was clean and not jittery like other pre workout products. The focus was great and the pumps were there and getting better with every workout. I really had no complaints at all about this. My only suggestion would be to make it with a bigger scoop so I dont have to scoop 10 times to get 2 servings."

[vermontplaya]

Since 3 scoops = 1 serving, and there is 45 serving in the bottle. I'm planning on taking the full serving at first. And/or substracting and adding 1 scoop if I need it. Have other people adjusted their dose too?

[legalgear]

We adjusted the scoop a bit, so there are 68 servings per container now. Still take 1-3 per day though

[pushinweightwi]

We adjusted the scoop a bit, so there are 68 servings per container now. Still take 1-3 per day though

That is alot of scoops per container! Looking forward to more people trying this!

[vermontplaya]

Is there any caffeine in it? If so how much?

Just curious.

finally one of the few supps that isn't based around caffeine

[Illadelphia]

So more research is coming out proving supplemental arginine to be dangerous and or inneffective and you gravitate towards it.

Congrats

[ricka182]

Nope, no caffeine, just Geranium Oil.

Maybe it's wrong...but the label on the product page lists caffeine as an ingredient... And now the product page is gone. I just went back to check it, and it's gone, and if I look under LG full product page, AP is not listed anymore??...

Also, the pump complex is all about arginine..I thought the arginine and pumps myth was already busted... I was taking NO2 Black for a while, and never really noticed any major pump increase..

[Illadelphia]

Maybe it's wrong...but the label on the product page lists caffeine as an ingredient... And now the product page is gone. I just went back to check it, and it's gone, and if I look under LG full product page, AP is not listed anymore??...

Also, the pump complex is all about arginine..I thought the arginine and pumps myth was already busted... I was taking NO2 Black for a while, and never really noticed any major pump increase..

It was debunked, as was cee, but some companies forget consumers do their homework.

[ricka182]

It was debunked, as was cee, but some companies forget consumers do their homework.

I could never imagine taking, let alone buying a product if I was unsure of what was in it, and how effective it was...takes me almost a month to put together a good stack.. lots of research is always key..


Edit : AP is still no longer listed...hmmm...

[legalgear]

http://www.lgsciences.com/product-p/anadraulic-pump.htm

Where are you seeing it no longer listed, it has been there the whole time. This is NOT anadraulic state, it's a totally different product.

Also, Arginine in addition to being a NO potentiator aids in GH release, reduces body fat and may stimulate mTOR similar to Leucine.

[ricka182]

http://www.lgsciences.com/product-p/anadraulic-pump.htm

Where are you seeing it no longer listed, it has been there the whole time.

My bad...I just realized I had clicked on the Anadraulic State info page...AS has caffeine in it, but not AP...

The only thing I expect to get from arginine is a cleaner urea tract. My pee smells awful if I take a lot of arginine.. haven't heard anything on GH release, body fat reduction or the mTOR..

great price on AP though..

[IrishCannon]

It was debunked, as was cee, but some companies forget consumers do their homework.

There is really no conclusive data "debunking" arginine as a solid pump product. The stuff works, there's absolutely no denying that. There is a reason it's in every vasodilation product out there.

[ricka182]

There is really no conclusive data "debunking" arginine as a solid pump product. The stuff works, there's absolutely no denying that. There is a reason it's in every vasodilation product out there.

The only data I needed was the fact it didn't work for me. I would say it's in every "pump" product because once it came out, every supp company jumped on board for a better pump. I've just recently started seeing other products come out that produce much better pumps and overall results....but those ingredients (Agmatine / Citrulline Malate) are very expensive to bulk source, so until that changes Arginine will probably continue to be the goto for pumps...

[legalgear]

Clearly this is not 100% conclusive, but it is interesting none the less and seems to indicate that Arginine is active in skeletal muscle.

J Nutr. 2008 May;138(5):867-72.
Dietary arginine supplementation increases mTOR signaling activity in skeletal muscle of neonatal pigs.

Yao K, Yin YL, Chu W, Liu Z, Deng D, Li T, Huang R, Zhang J, Tan B, Wang W, Wu G.

Laboratory of Animal Nutrition and Health, Institute of Subtropical Agriculture, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Changsha, Hunan 410125, PR China.

Dietary arginine supplementation increases growth of neonatal pigs, but the underlying mechanisms are unknown. This study was conducted to test the hypothesis that the arginine treatment activates translation initiation factors and protein synthesis in skeletal muscle. Piglets were fed milk-based diets supplemented with 0 or 0.6% L-arginine between 7 and 14 d of age. Following a 7-d period of arginine supplementation, at 1 h after the last meal, jugular venous blood samples were obtained for metabolite analysis, whereas longissimus muscle and liver were collected to determine the abundance and phosphorylation state of the mammalian target of the rapamycin (mTOR), ribo****l protein S6 kinase 1 (S6K1), eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF) 4E-binding protein-1 (4E-BP1), eIF4E, and eIF4G. Fractional rates of protein synthesis were measured in muscle and liver using the [(3)H]phenylalanine flooding-dose technique. Arginine supplementation increased (P < 0.05) daily gain, the plasma insulin concentration, and protein synthesis in skeletal muscle but not in liver. The arginine treatment enhanced the formation of the active eIF4E x eIF4G complex but reduced the amount of the inactive 4E-BP1 x eIF4E complex in muscle. These changes were associated with elevated levels of phosphorylated mTOR and 4E-BP1 in muscle of arginine-supplemented piglets (P < 0.05). Neither the total amounts nor phosphorylation levels of the translation initiation factors in the liver differed between control and arginine-supplemented piglets. Collectively, these results suggest that dietary arginine supplementation increases mTOR signaling activity in skeletal muscle, but not in liver, of milk-fed neonatal pigs. The findings provide a molecular mechanism for explaining the previous observation that increased circulating arginine stimulated muscle protein synthesis and promoted weight gain in neonatal pigs.

[legalgear]

I can't find all of the papers right now, but there are some good ones on the fat loss effects, I'd just have to find them.

J Nutr. 2009 Jul;139(7):1279-85. Epub 2009 May 13.
Dietary supplementation of L-arginine and conjugated linoleic acid reduces retroperitoneal fat mass and increases lean body mass in rats.

Nall JL, Wu G, Kim KH, Choi CW, Smith SB.

Intercollegiate Faculty of Nutrition and Department of Animal Science, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843 , USA.

We hypothesized that l-arginine and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) would have additive effects in decreasing adiposity. Sprague Dawley rats were assigned to the following dietary groups (n = 6/group; 5 wk total): 1) control (2.55% l-alanine plus 1.5% canola oil); 2) arginine (1.25% l-arginine plus 1.5% canola oil); 3) CLA (2.55% l-alanine plus 1.5% CLA); and 4) arginine plus CLA (1.25% l-arginine plus 1.5% CLA). Supplemental amino acids were provided in drinking water and CLA was incorporated into the food pellets. Daily weight gain, food intake, arginine intake, and final body and eviscerated body weights were greater in rats fed supplemental CLA then in rats fed canola oil. The retroperitoneal adipose tissue:body weight ratio was less in rats fed supplemental CLA than in rats fed canola oil, but epididymal adipose tissue, liver, and soleus and extensor digitorum longus muscle weights were unaffected by arginine or CLA. CLA decreased epididymal adipose tissue concentrations of palmitoleic, oleic, and cis-vaccenic acid. CLA and arginine increased palmitate oxidation to CO(2) in epididymal adipose tissue in vitro relative to control rats. Glucose and palmitate incorporation into total lipids in epididymal adipose tissue was lower in rats fed supplemental arginine than in alanine-fed rats. Arginine increased plasma glycerol relative to alanine-fed rats and CLA and arginine independently decreased most serum essential amino acids and alanine, glutamate, glutamine, and ornithine. We conclude that CLA and arginine modulated adipose tissue metabolism by separate, but not additive, effects. Also, CLA and arginine may have depressed muscle protein turnover.

[IrishCannon]

The only data I needed was the fact it didn't work for me. I would say it's in every "pump" product because once it came out, every supp company jumped on board for a better pump. I've just recently started seeing other products come out that produce much better pumps and overall results....but those ingredients (Agmatine / Citrulline Malate) are very expensive to bulk source, so until that changes Arginine will probably continue to be the goto for pumps...

Ya, and most of them also contain creatine, which is the reason you're not seeing the pump.

[Illadelphia]

There is really no conclusive data "debunking" arginine as a solid pump product. The stuff works, there's absolutely no denying that. There is a reason it's in every vasodilation product out there.

O'rly? Wrong. The companies who've read the research are not incuding it in newer products.


See: Gaspari/EST/XF

Abstract

Background Providing -arginine as a precursor for nitric oxide has been proposed to improve endothelial function in populations at high risk for cardiovascular events. We studied the effects of dietary -arginine supplementation with HeartBars (a medical food rich in L-arginine, Cooke Pharma, Belmont, Calif) on flow-mediated dilation and markers of endothelial function in subjects with hypercholesterolemia. Methods We randomly assigned 47 subjects with hypercholesterolemia to receive one HeartBar containing 3.3 g -arginine each, or a placebo bar, consumed twice daily for 2 weeks. Flow-mediated dilation, platelet aggregation studies, and soluble levels of endothelial and platelet adhesion molecules were obtained before and after the 2-week treatment period. Results Baseline and follow-up levels of -arginine were 78.5 ? 28.2 μmol/L and 80.7 ? 26.7 μmol/L, respectively (P = .54). The HeartBar group had no improvement in flow-mediated dilation; changes in brachial artery diameter at baseline and follow-up were 5.52% ? 3.32% and 4.96% ? 2.39%, respectively. There were also no changes in the soluble levels of E-selectin and P-selectin by treatment group. Conclusions In our study, 2 weeks of HeartBar supplementation in subjects with hypercholesterolemia showed no favorable effects on endothelial or platelet function. (Am Heart J 2003;145:e15.)


and....




http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...light=Arginine


and....


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...light=Arginine

Enjoy

[Illadelphia]

1: J Nutr Biochem. 2008 Aug 15. [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
No effect of short-term arginine supplementation on nitric oxide production, metabolism and performance in intermittent exercise in athletes.
Liu TH, Wu CL, Chiang CW, Lo YW, Tseng HF, Chang CK.

Department of Physical Education, Taiwan Sport University, 404 Taichung, Taiwan.

Arginine supplementation has been shown to alleviate endothelial dysfunction and improve exercise performance through increasing nitric oxide production in patients with cardiopulmonary diseases. In addition, arginine supplementation could decrease accumulations of lactate and ammonia, metabolites involved in development of muscular fatigue. The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of short-term arginine supplementation on performance in intermittent anaerobic exercise and the underlying mechanism in well-trained male athletes. Ten elite male college judo athletes participated with a randomized crossover, placebo-controlled design. The subjects consumed 6 g/day arginine (ARG trial) or placebo (CON trial) for 3 days then performed an intermittent anaerobic exercise test on a cycle ergometer. Blood samples were collected before supplementation, before and during exercise and 0, 3, 6, 10, 30 and 60 min after exercise. ARG trial had significantly higher arginine concentrations than CON trial at the same time point before, during and after exercise. In both trials, nitrate and nitrite concentration was significantly higher during and 6 min after exercise comparing to the basal concentration. The increase in nitrate and nitrite concentration during exercise in both trials was parallel to the increase in plasma citrulline concentrations. There was no significant difference between the 2 trials in plasma nitrate and nitrite, lactate and ammonia concentrations and peak and average power in the exercise. The results of this study suggested that short-term arginine supplementation had no effect on nitric oxide production, lactate and ammonia metabolism and performance in intermittent anaerobic exercise in well-trained male athletes.



Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2008 Jan;11(1):50-4.

Growth hormone, arginine and exercise.

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: To describe the effect of an acute bout of exercise on growth hormone responses and to discuss the effect of L-arginine supplementation on growth hormone responses. RECENT FINDINGS: Recent studies have shown that resting growth hormone responses increase with oral ingestion of L-arginine and the dose range is 5-9 g of arginine. Within this range there is a dose-dependent increase and higher doses are not well tolerated. Most studies using oral arginine have shown that arginine alone increases the resting growth hormone levels at least 100%, while exercise can increase growth hormone levels by 300-500%. The combination of oral arginine plus exercise attenuates the growth hormone response, however, and only increases growth hormone levels by around 200% compared to resting levels. SUMMARY: Exercise is a very potent stimulator of growth hormone release and there is considerable research documenting the dramatic growth hormone rise. At rest oral L-arginine ingestion will enhance the growth hormone response and the combination of arginine plus exercise increases growth hormone, but this increase may be less than seen with exercise alone. This diminished response is seen in both in both younger and older individuals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

[IrishCannon]

Do you have any idea how long we could go back and forth posting conflicting articles on supplements out there?

I said it before, it works. I get a greater pump with it than without; there's no denying empirical evidence.

[Resolve.]

There are many variables that can influence the success or failure of a supplemental substance.

From the looks of the abstracts I've seen, simple L-Arg is primarily used, which has a rather slim bioavailability. Other forms may have entirely different effects (I'll have to look into that - Illadelphia has me intrigued now).

Either way, I really think it should just come down to personal experience - try it and see if it works. If it does - great, if not - move on.

I have yet to use an LG product that I was disappointed in (though there have been a couple whose flavor could have improved), so I'll probably end up giving Anadraulic Pump a try. It's cheap, caffeine free, and I respond really well to geranamine.

[michael3435]

It's got a good profile, I hope you like it. It's time for a pure play NO product with no vein killing creatine in it...

what are you talking about??? i replied to one of your other statements in another thread.

how is creatine a "vein killer"

[legalgear]

It's simply a timing thing. I think nutrient timing is something that is pretty important and I feel that mixing creatine with NO is not optimal. It's our company opinion and like anything it's all open to disagreement.

[legalgear]

Caffeine and NO is a prime example. The literature is conflicting on whether caffeine is a hindrance or helps NO production with Arginine. Science is never definite no matter what people on here would have you believe, it is open to theory which is why papers contradict each other and these discussions can go on forever...

[vermontplaya]

There is always scientific articles about certain supp that always go against each other.

Did you know in some patients Arginine helps with declining kidney function and/or kidney declining related side effects, while for others it does nothing or even makes side effects worse?


Either way im looking forward to trying this new product out

[michael3435]

It's simply a timing thing. I think nutrient timing is something that is pretty important and I feel that mixing creatine with NO is not optimal. It's our company opinion and like anything it's all open to disagreement.

Caffeine and NO is a prime example. The literature is conflicting on whether caffeine is a hindrance or helps NO production with Arginine. Science is never definite no matter what people on here would have you believe, it is open to theory which is why papers contradict each other and these discussions can go on forever...

dude, what are you talking about??? caffeine is a vasocontrictor and thats why you obviously wouldnt use it to obtain maximal pumps (vasodilation).

vasodilation (and in particular nitrate mediated vasodilation) has been shown to increase the absorption of creatine i.e. creatine nitrate.

do you have any literature to back your claims up? i am genuinely interested.

[IrishCannon]

dude, what are you talking about??? caffeine is a vasocontrictor and thats why you obviously wouldnt use it to obtain maximal pumps (vasodilation).

vasodilation (and in particular nitrate mediated vasodilation) has been shown to increase the absorption of creatine i.e. creatine nitrate.

do you have any literature to back your claims up? i am genuinely interested.

Vasodilation in and of itself does aid in creatine uptake, but with the creatine present, vasodilation isn't likely to occur at as great a level as it would without it. That's why we've developed the two-phase system approach. Anadraulic State 45mins pre-workout, and then Anadraulic Pump 15mins pre-workout. It allows for creatine uptake from the AS just at the precise time prior to the AP.

[michael3435]

Vasodilation in and of itself does aid in creatine uptake, but with the creatine present, vasodilation isn't likely to occur at as great a level as it would without it.

why and how? i dont believe this to be true. creatine is not a vasoconstrictor nor does it inhibit the absorption of any vasodilating compounds that i know of.