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  1. #1
    Registered User jazi's Avatar
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    Mike Mentzer HIT

    So about Mike Mentzer's idea of high intensity training...

    I was very motivated by this high intensity training and was really looking forward to it. I like the idea of slow controlled movements, positively and negatively as well. I started getting skeptical however, when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again. Before I dedicate myself to this (because I don't simply do everything I see big guys doing with no questions asked) I'm asking you guys- do you think it's bull****? Been looking into it for a while, would just be nice to have some more opinions.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days

    I'm not high enough level to post links
    Last edited by jazi; 12-02-2009 at 04:19 PM.
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  2. #2
    Banned ChAoSnPAIN's Avatar
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    It's crap. Do ANYTHING else. Mentzer was a speed-addicted idiot who failed to understand the rudiments of nutrition or Ayn Rand, yet felt confident enough in his drug-addled state to pontificate upon the former and base a ridiculous training methodology on the latter.
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  3. #3
    Registered Abuser dopamine72's Avatar
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    He has very persuasive writing. Don't let that fool you, CnP is right, Mike Mentzers program is crap along with other HIT and HD type training.
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  4. #4
    Registered User NaturalHIT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dopamine72 View Post
    He has very persuasive writing. Don't let that fool you, CnP is right, Mike Mentzers program is crap along with other HIT and HD type training.
    You don't know what are you talking about.
    OP diesn't have to follow Mentzer to the letter, but Mentzer had some good ideas in his earlier days. Later he bacame somewhat extreme in his routines.
    But the ideas that Mentzer made popular do work.

    I have a different HIT low volume routine, the link below.
    .
    .
    Natural HIT
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119915771
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  5. #5
    Registered User NaturalHIT's Avatar
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    OP, at 15, following low volume routine may be somewhat early. If you have the time, then spend it learning as much as you can about proper lifting, different exercises. Do some sports, be active.
    Later in life as you become more restricted with your time you may want to look into HIT low volume training.
    Good luck.
    .
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    Originally Posted by jazi View Post
    So about Mike Mentzer's idea of high intensity training...

    I was very motivated by this high intensity training and was really looking forward to it. I like the idea of slow controlled movements, positively and negatively as well. I started getting skeptical however, when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again. Before I dedicate myself to this (because I don't simply do everything I see big guys doing with no questions asked) I'm asking you guys- do you think it's bull****? Been looking into it for a while, would just be nice to have some more opinions.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days

    I'm not high enough level to post links
    stay away from it.....stay as ****ing far as you can away from this lunatic.
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  7. #7
    Registered User mike584's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jazi View Post
    So about Mike Mentzer's idea of high intensity training...

    I was very motivated by this high intensity training and was really looking forward to it. I like the idea of slow controlled movements, positively and negatively as well. I started getting skeptical however, when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again. Before I dedicate myself to this (because I don't simply do everything I see big guys doing with no questions asked) I'm asking you guys- do you think it's bull****? Been looking into it for a while, would just be nice to have some more opinions.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days

    I'm not high enough level to post links
    Hey. As someone said earlier, you are too young to be doing somehting like this. Training with a program as extreme as HIT will damge your muscles in the futre. Mike's way was to train your whole body as heavy as possible in one day. Ok, I believe in taking time off to rest but that's ridiculous. He did have great ideas, and I give him credit for showing that even bodybuilders can have a life after all. But other than that he was a psycho hooked on barbituats (I doubt I spelled that right) and landed in a mental ward for 5 years.
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  8. #8
    Durty Bulker LightCrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jazi View Post
    So about Mike Mentzer's idea of high intensity training...

    I was very motivated by this high intensity training and was really looking forward to it. I like the idea of slow controlled movements, positively and negatively as well. I started getting skeptical however, when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again. Before I dedicate myself to this (because I don't simply do everything I see big guys doing with no questions asked) I'm asking you guys- do you think it's bull****? Been looking into it for a while, would just be nice to have some more opinions.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days

    I'm not high enough level to post links
    There are better HIT people to listen to than Mike Mentzer. Dr. Ken Leistner is an example of a HIT trainer that never drank the crazy juice like Mentzer and he trained some awfully big and strong guys. Or go straight to the source and read Arthur Jones original HIT writings at arthurjonesexercise.com/. I would especially pay attention to the Nautilus Bulletins 1 & 2.
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  9. #9
    Registered User aspengc8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LightCrow View Post
    There are better HIT people to listen to than Mike Mentzer. Dr. Ken Leistner is an example of a HIT trainer that never drank the crazy juice like Mentzer and he trained some awfully big and strong guys. Or go straight to the source and read Arthur Jones original HIT writings at arthurjonesexercise.com/. I would especially pay attention to the Nautilus Bulletins 1 & 2.
    This.

    Mentzer's version of HIT is crap. Follow Arthur Jones or Dorian Yates style, with slightly less volume unless your 'enhanced'.
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  10. #10
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    OP,

    At your age, since I imagine you're just starting out, I'd work on building a base of strength and size with a more conventional routine. When you have a few months--or even a couple of years of solid training under your belt, think about the old-style HIT routines. I would NOT advocate doing the very infrequent routines that Mentzer advocated i.e. once every five days a.k.a. the Consolidation routine. Doing an old-style Mentzer or Yates routine would be much better, IMHO, but I'd start with a conventional workout programme first, build up your strength, endurance and, yes, tolerance to exercise, and then if you're really gung-ho on doing HIT, try the older routines. The ultra-brief abbreviated stuff he pushed in his later years has really not panned out for anyone unless they're very gifted, very advanced.
    "Don't call me Miss Kitty. Just...don't."--Catnip

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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by aspengc8 View Post
    This.

    Mentzer's version of HIT is crap. Follow Arthur Jones or Dorian Yates style, with slightly less volume unless your 'enhanced'.
    With less volume? Good god almighty, they had less volume than EVERYONE except Mentzer himself.

    HIT jedis are the only people on Earth who think they can get better at something by doing less of it. It's nonsense on its face. Furthermore, it flies in the face of millions of years of evolution, both ontogenic and genetic.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by GuyJin View Post
    OP,

    At your age, since I imagine you're just starting out, I'd work on building a base of strength and size with a more conventional routine. When you have a few months--or even a couple of years of solid training under your belt, think about the old-style HIT routines. I would NOT advocate doing the very infrequent routines that Mentzer advocated i.e. once every five days a.k.a. the Consolidation routine. Doing an old-style Mentzer or Yates routine would be much better, IMHO, but I'd start with a conventional workout programme first, build up your strength, endurance and, yes, tolerance to exercise, and then if you're really gung-ho on doing HIT, try the older routines. The ultra-brief abbreviated stuff he pushed in his later years has really not panned out for anyone unless they're very gifted, very advanced.
    I've been training seriously for about two years.

    started at 12 years old 165 at like 25% bf->dropped to 135 15% bf(eating like a dumbass and doing every machine every day with lots of cardio)->bulked up to 160 (15.5% bf)by eating right and learning the proper way to lift->bulked up to 175(16% bf) finally realized how important squats and deadlifts were->went down to 155 due to pneumonia and like a month of not working out or eating right-> and now here I am again at 175 more serious than ever! I'm 6'2.5 so nothing amazing, I consider myself acceptable now, but still not where I want to be.

    end of kewl story.
    Last edited by jazi; 12-03-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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  13. #13
    Registered Abuser dopamine72's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NaturalHIT View Post
    You don't know what are you talking about.
    OP diesn't have to follow Mentzer to the letter, but Mentzer had some good ideas in his earlier days. Later he bacame somewhat extreme in his routines.
    But the ideas that Mentzer made popular do work.

    I have a different HIT low volume routine, the link below.
    .
    I got sucked into the whole HIT/HD brainwashing stuff a while ago, btw I tried the program for 5 months. What happend was I gained body fat, got extremely deconditioned and felt like I had been hit by a train everytime I worked out(was extremely sore for 5+ days), and ended up regressing on all of my lifts. I'll refrase my statement and say HIT/HD didn't work for me and it was a waste of time.

    On top of that HIT doesn't train the CNS at all becuase you just go to failure all the time. Failure all the time is not the answer, look at all the huge powerlifters(that are much stronger than any HITTER will ever be) who never train to failure, explain that. Also as you get stronger you need more frequency and or volume etc. to keep progressing, not the other way around. And that slow lifting all the time is just stupid, you are not recruiting the maximum amount of muscle fibers that are available and it just turns into a cardio workout that forces you to use less weight. The fact is that lifting heavy weights, fast and explosively will recruit the most muscle fibers, and all the HITTERS I have said this too refuse to believe it.

    Please give me an example of someone who has built a great body by just doing one set. Not even Mentzer built his body just doing one set.

    The only things I agree with are some of the advance techniques that HIT uses and going to failure is ok sometimes.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by dopamine72 View Post
    Failure all the time is not the answer, look at all the huge powerlifters(that are much stronger than any HITTER will ever be) who never train to failure, explain that.
    Powerlifters never train to failure? You're in desperate need of a reality check there.
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  15. #15
    Registered Abuser dopamine72's Avatar
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    There are some powerlifters that have stated they never have gone to absolute muscle failure, and yet they are big and strong. Yes powerlifters do go to failure sometimes but not all the time, that's what I meant.
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    Originally Posted by jazi View Post
    So about Mike Mentzer's idea of high intensity training...

    I was very motivated by this high intensity training and was really looking forward to it. I like the idea of slow controlled movements, positively and negatively as well. I started getting skeptical however, when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again. Before I dedicate myself to this (because I don't simply do everything I see big guys doing with no questions asked) I'm asking you guys- do you think it's bull****? Been looking into it for a while, would just be nice to have some more opinions.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days

    I'm not high enough level to post links
    I used different HIT variations during my first couple of years of training. I made acceptable gains using this style of training. I can go into detail as to why I think other training styles are better, but I dont have the time to write a books worth of material. The long story short for me was that I made my most impressive gains when I switched to a compound movement routine. A routine that did not include sets to failure.
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    Minister for Propoganda gomez26's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jazi View Post
    when Mike mentions in this video that it's okay to take 6-8 day breaks before working out again.

    If I'm mistaken by what he said, please tell me because to me it sounds like he's saying you should go to the gym once every 6-8 days
    To answer your question directly, no youre not mistaken but no you shouldnt be doing it that infrequently. .
    Mike in the vid was training someone who was advanced, & one thing HItters believe is the more advanced you are the less frequency & less volume you should be doing. Thats why.

    Originally Posted by LightCrow View Post
    . I would especially pay attention to the Nautilus Bulletins 1 & 2.
    Jones first started advocating full body routines 3 times a week. This will defly be better for those less advanced.

    But it would be far better to do something like SS & build a base using methods that have actually been proven to work on the vast majority of the population before doing something extreme that has only been shown to work for a very small % of the population.
    "Though the concept is not scientifically validated in detail (it should be considered as a hypothesis rather than a scientific theory), it is useful from a practical standpoint. When training athletes, it is impossible to wait until scientific research provides all of the necessary knowledge." Vladmir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D.
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    Originally Posted by gomez26 View Post
    Jones first started advocating full body routines 3 times a week. This will defly be better for those less advanced.

    But it would be far better to do something like SS & build a base using methods that have actually been proven to work on the vast majority of the population before doing something extreme that has only been shown to work for a very small % of the population.
    I think Ken Leistner would disagree with you.
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    Originally Posted by LightCrow View Post
    I think Ken Leistner would disagree with you.
    No argument there dude, hitters will disagree on 99.9% of things with everyone else.



    As far as training to failure here are some good discussions on it

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112773431

    Some of the most successful olympic weightlifters never trained to failure. They only experienced it during competitions trying to break records & once in while trying to set new PR's , but never actually 'trained' using it. Many powerlifters follow similar routines but not all, some of them do train to failure.
    "Though the concept is not scientifically validated in detail (it should be considered as a hypothesis rather than a scientific theory), it is useful from a practical standpoint. When training athletes, it is impossible to wait until scientific research provides all of the necessary knowledge." Vladmir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D.
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    Originally Posted by gomez26 View Post
    No argument there dude, hitters will disagree on 99.9% of things with everyone else.
    I just want to be clear that I'm far from a HIT Jedi. I think HIT is just a tool for the tool box of any successful lifter. Ken Leistner who is a HIT guy through and through has built some big and strong guys using HIT principles and failure training.
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    Registered User NaturalHIT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChAoSnPAIN View Post
    With less volume? Good god almighty, they had less volume than EVERYONE except Mentzer himself.
    I assume you are talking about Dorian Yates? Yea, his volume was the lowest among any pro of his time, he stated somewhere he only trained 3 hours a week total.
    If you watch "Blood and Guts", that is his whole weekly split with warm-ups, minus rest periods fitting into an hour of video.

    Low volume indeed. Yet he was 6 times Mr. O and one of the biggest BBesrs.

    When will you get it, that volume is just ONE variable in BB training?
    When training to failure - stimulation (and stress) are multiplied several times.
    The level of failure and personal determination to work to one's absolute capasity will determine the multiplication factor.
    When training NOT to failure, volume is the main variable.

    If a natural trainee is WILLING and ABLE to dublicate the effort of Dorian Yates, there is no way he can follow his routine, it will be too much stress, regardless of relatively low volume.

    If a trainee is not able (or willing) to prodice the high levels of effort, then volume must be increased. With effort scaled down, and only just barely reaching failure, only then a natural lifter will steadily progress on Dorian's routine.

    You keep saying that there is no such thing as overtraining, but I bet if you were willing to dublicate Dorian's effort and routine, you would overtrain.
    Unless you are chemically enhanced, same as Dorian was.

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    Originally Posted by NaturalHIT View Post
    I assume you are talking about Dorian Yates? Yea, his volume was the lowest among any pro of his time, he stated somewhere he only trained 3 hours a week total.
    If you watch "Blood and Guts", that is his whole weekly split with warm-ups, minus rest periods fitting into an hour of video.

    Low volume indeed. Yet he was 6 times Mr. O and one of the biggest BBesrs.

    When will you get it, that volume is just ONE variable in BB training?
    When training to failure - stimulation (and stress) are multiplied several times.
    The level of failure and personal determination to work to one's absolute capasity will determine the multiplication factor.
    When training NOT to failure, volume is the main variable.

    If a natural trainee is WILLING and ABLE to dublicate the effort of Dorian Yates, there is no way he can follow his routine, it will be too much stress, regardless of relatively low volume.

    If a trainee is not able (or willing) to prodice the high levels of effort, then volume must be increased. With effort scaled down, and only just barely reaching failure, only then a natural lifter will steadily progress on Dorian's routine.

    You keep saying that there is no such thing as overtraining, but I bet if you were willing to dublicate Dorian's effort and routine, you would overtrain.
    Unless you are chemically enhanced, same as Dorian was.

    .
    Dorian Built his body with high volume training, it was only in his later years he used HIT/HD training. Plus he did pre-exhaust and other techniques which is more than one set, I don't care what any "jedi" says, pre-exhuast is two sets. It is impossible to go to failure on large compound movements like deadlifts, your cns will stop you before you can reach failure, thus two sets is required to go to "absolute muscular failure". At least you noted that Dorain was chemicaly enhanced, however I think that is a vast understatement .
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    Originally Posted by dopamine72 View Post
    Dorian Built his body with high volume training, it was only in his later years he used HIT/HD training.
    No that was Mike Mentzer. Yates pretty much only used low volume. I remember he once commented he tried doing high volume for a couple of weeks & realized it was not for him. This was significant because you need to build volume tolerance gradually over a long time, many months to see if it will work for you. If anyone (including the highest volume fanatics) suddenly started doing high volume I imagine the result would be the same - it wont work because it doesnt work like that. You ramp it gradually. So he never really tried it seriously.


    Originally Posted by dopamine72 View Post
    At least you noted that Dorain was chemicaly enhanced, however I think that is a vast understatement .
    There is nothing to suggest he used any more than other pros. What is relevant is that someone with pro genetics will make gains on almost any routine.
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