Beta Alanine doesn't work? (study)

[4EverBulk]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot...s-is-what.html

lol WTF actually works these days????

[uboodiff]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot...s-is-what.html

lol WTF actually works these days????

i take placebo daily. gives me crazy pump

[ersatz]

Look at the date of that blog. Vast amounts of research has come out to support BA. Plus this moron cannot interpret data correctly. On noes, no increase in ba in tssues, only increase in carnosine. Definitely don't want that. But please tell me how he discounts beta-alanine with his piss poor meta-analysis? I'z confused.

[4EverBulk]

Look at the date of that blog. Vast amounts of research has come out to support BA. Plus this moron cannot interpret data correctly. On noes, no increase in ba in tssues, only increase in carnosine. Definitely don't want that. But please tell me how he discounts beta-alanine with his piss poor meta-analysis? I'z confused.

Not sure, Im just trying to find out whats worth taking long term.

[Robboe]

Not sure, Im just trying to find out whats worth taking long term.

Define "long-term".

If you mean about 8 weeks before cycling off for 4-8 weeks then sure.

If you mean about 8 months, then re-assess and read this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=119591931

[in10city]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot...s-is-what.html

lol WTF actually works these days????

If you read that first post and the full text of the study a little closer, you would see that the study referenced only looked at some pharmacokinetic and muscle content data. It didn't evaluate the effects on any performance end-points - which is what the bottom line really is. Nothwithstanding the fact that there is more recent literature regarding the positive effects on relevant end-points.

When reviewing the other study(s) mentioned in the blog or any other studies for that matter, it's important to make a mental note of the tests performed vs. the MOA of BA/Carn and the tests it would likely show improvements on.

[Num3n]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot...s-is-what.html

lol WTF actually works these days????

cliffs...?

[v4lu3s]

the very first sentence in that blog states the studies did not examine functional/performance outcomes, but were physiological assays. in other words you cannot draw a conclusion that something works or not based on what he wrote.

[snorkelman]

OP, take a look at these recent studies:

1. The Effect of beta-Alanine Supplementation on Power Performance During Repeated Sprint Activity. Sweeney et.al, The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:
POST AUTHOR CORRECTIONS, 20 November 2009 doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3181c63bd5

abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=3

"The results of this study clearly indicate that 5 weeks of BA supplementation provides no benefit for repeat sprint performance."

compare that against:

2. Beta-alanine improves sprint performance in endurance cycling.Van Thienen R. et.al, Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Apr;41(4):898-903. abstract available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...&ordinalpos=54

"Oral betaALA supplementation can significantly enhance sprint performance at the end of an exhaustive endurance exercise bout."


3. beta-Alanine supplementation reduces acidosis but not oxygen uptake response during high-intensity cycling exercise. Baguet A. et.al, Eur J Appl Physiol. 2009 Oct 16. http://www.springerlink.com/content/445n304842001137/

"Exercise-induced acidosis was significantly reduced following beta-alanine supplementation compared to placebo, without affecting blood lactate and bicarbonate concentrations...These results indicate that chronic beta-alanine supplementation, which presumably increased muscle carnosine content, can attenuate the fall in blood pH during high-intensity exercise. This may contribute to the ergogenic effect of the supplement found in some exercise modes."

[4EverBulk]

OP, take a look at these recent studies:

1. The Effect of beta-Alanine Supplementation on Power Performance During Repeated Sprint Activity. Sweeney et.al, The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research:
POST AUTHOR CORRECTIONS, 20 November 2009 doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3181c63bd5

abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=3

"The results of this study clearly indicate that 5 weeks of BA supplementation provides no benefit for repeat sprint performance."

compare that against:

2. Beta-alanine improves sprint performance in endurance cycling.Van Thienen R. et.al, Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Apr;41(4):898-903. abstract available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...&ordinalpos=54

"Oral betaALA supplementation can significantly enhance sprint performance at the end of an exhaustive endurance exercise bout."


3. beta-Alanine supplementation reduces acidosis but not oxygen uptake response during high-intensity cycling exercise. Baguet A. et.al, Eur J Appl Physiol. 2009 Oct 16. http://www.springerlink.com/content/445n304842001137/

"Exercise-induced acidosis was significantly reduced following beta-alanine supplementation compared to placebo, without affecting blood lactate and bicarbonate concentrations...These results indicate that chronic beta-alanine supplementation, which presumably increased muscle carnosine content, can attenuate the fall in blood pH during high-intensity exercise. This may contribute to the ergogenic effect of the supplement found in some exercise modes."

So whats the consensus guys? BA a good supplement to take/cycle?

[ersatz]

Define "long-term".

If you mean about 8 weeks before cycling off for 4-8 weeks then sure.

If you mean about 8 months, then re-assess and read this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=119591931

Read that thread and now I'm even more confused. Bunch of speculation that there exists complex and manifold feedback systems that eventually lead to inhibition. So, the body can detect supplemental creatine and then reduce muscle levels? Even with excess carb intake you think there would be insulin resistance in all cells or at drop in insulin production. But there are vast amounts of corpulent lard asses so where is the insulin resistance or other mechanism to reduce adipose accrual?

Your contention here is that prolonged use of beta-alanine will result in a reduction of carnosine as the body tries to maintain homeostasis. So how does the body detect excess carnosine and thus reduce the synthase enzyme?

[ZachSmash]

i take placebo daily. gives me crazy pump

beta alanine def helps son.


it has positive effects on testosterone production AND is crucial in the lactic acid cycle and clearing of hydrogen ions in the muscle cells.


it prevents "fatigue".



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120751421


get down towards the bottom of the page and onto the 2nd page brah.

[Robboe]

Read that thread and now I'm even more confused. Bunch of speculation that there exists complex and manifold feedback systems that eventually lead to inhibition. So, the body can detect supplemental creatine and then reduce muscle levels? Even with excess carb intake you think there would be insulin resistance in all cells or at drop in insulin production. But there are vast amounts of corpulent lard asses so where is the insulin resistance or other mechanism to reduce adipose accrual?

I guess it all depends upon how often the hormones/enzymes are regulated.

And regarding insulin, cells tend to induce short-term insulin resistance once they have had their fill of nutrients in order to parse the nutrients fairly equally amongst organs (brain gets dibs, followed by vital organs and muscle). Anything left over is mopped up by fat cells which not not have this short-term mechanism.

Your contention here is that prolonged use of beta-alanine will result in a reduction of carnosine as the body tries to maintain homeostasis. So how does the body detect excess carnosine and thus reduce the synthase enzyme?

I honestly don't know, i just know that effects tend to ware off in time.

[factotum]

I guess it all depends upon how often the hormones/enzymes are regulated.

And regarding insulin, cells tend to induce short-term insulin resistance once they have had their fill of nutrients in order to parse the nutrients fairly equally amongst organs (brain gets dibs, followed by vital organs and muscle). Anything left over is mopped up by fat cells which not not have this short-term mechanism.



I honestly don't know, i just know that effects tend to ware off in time.

Is this diminution of effect simply a perceived one or have you actually measure lactic acid or carnosine levels? It seems to me that as one becomes accustomed to the effects they take it for granted and there then ensues this idea that effects "wear off in time".

[DR_P]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot...s-is-what.html

lol WTF actually works these days????

Did anyone actually read this blogpost?

Never does it say that BA "doesn't work" or anything.
Nor does it say anything about alleged "diminishing returns".

summary of blog post and study:

BA supplementation increased muscle carnosine levels as much as carnosine supplementation. There was no difference between BA 4 x 800 mg/d and BA given every four hours at escalating doses. There was also no difference between BA supplementation and carnosine supplementation.

BA levels are irrelevant. The important endpoint are carnosine levels in the muscle and they increased significantly after BA supplementation.

[Mac_330]

my brain hurts

[Peter LeDrew]

Is this diminution of effect simply a perceived one or have you actually measure lactic acid or carnosine levels? It seems to me that as one becomes accustomed to the effects they take it for granted and there then ensues this idea that effects "wear off in time".

I agree. Everyone says the same with the other proven effective supplement, creatine.

[Dutchman]

I have used BA with great success to improve my vision. Granted I stack it with Taurine and Lutein (a carotinoid) to improve levels of all three in the macula of my eyes. While this is a very different and specific application, My Opthalmologists have tracked the sensational improvement in my vision (for a 68 year old) from 3.25 /3.75 (R/L) progressively to this weeks confirmation that I am now 20/20 and no longer need any glasses much less my old trifocals. I thought it might be of interest as in at least, for this protracted use of BA, there has been no cessation of effect.

[DR_P]

I have used BA with great success to improve my vision. Granted I stack it with Taurine and Lutein (a carotinoid) to improve levels of all three in the macula of my eyes. While this is a very different and specific application, My Opthalmologists have tracked the sensational improvement in my vision (for a 68 year old) from 3.25 /3.75 (R/L) progressively to this weeks confirmation that I am now 20/20 and no longer need any glasses much less my old trifocals. I thought it might be of interest as in at least, for this protracted use of BA, there has been no cessation of effect.

this is interesting, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. A few questions:

- did you need glasses for reading or for looking into the far?
- how did you dose BA, lutein and taurine?
- over what period of time did you supplement with these substances?

[Robboe]

Is this diminution of effect simply a perceived one or have you actually measure lactic acid or carnosine levels? It seems to me that as one becomes accustomed to the effects they take it for granted and there then ensues this idea that effects "wear off in time".

Anecdotal, and you very well may be right with that idea.

[Lucky_ROA]

I have used BA with great success to improve my vision. Granted I stack it with Taurine and Lutein (a carotinoid) to improve levels of all three in the macula of my eyes. While this is a very different and specific application, My Opthalmologists have tracked the sensational improvement in my vision (for a 68 year old) from 3.25 /3.75 (R/L) progressively to this weeks confirmation that I am now 20/20 and no longer need any glasses much less my old trifocals. I thought it might be of interest as in at least, for this protracted use of BA, there has been no cessation of effect.

Wow that is interesting to hear. And I have the exact same questions as DR_P and anxiously awaiting.

[_Translucency]

Is this diminution of effect simply a perceived one or have you actually measure lactic acid or carnosine levels? It seems to me that as one becomes accustomed to the effects they take it for granted and there then ensues this idea that effects "wear off in time".

Great thought.

[jcosley]

Beta Alanine is my favorite supplement hands down. I can tell a big difference taking it before and during training then when not.

[Dutchman]

this is interesting, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. A few questions:

- did you need glasses for reading or for looking into the far?
- how did you dose BA, lutein and taurine?
- over what period of time did you supplement with these substances?

Sorry just got back in here to check.

I can read without glasses but it takes me a few seconds to focus well enough. They told me I could get a pair of off-the-shelf reading glasses at either 100 or 250 if I felt I needed them. Since most of my reading is online, I don't need anything. Only, occasionally I get something printed and super small and for that the reading glasses help. As for distance well that might be the best of all. Now I am not a good golfer having just took it up at the age of 60. But I am very strong for my age. Now that I no longer need glasses I can hit a couple buckets as I did yesterday and not find myself having depth perception problems. So.....I can now try using a long wood like my driver. Yesterday, at one of our 8 CCs here in The Villages, I hit those air filled water balls they give you consistently between 240 and 300 yards and could see every one of them, all the way out! Now I did have have both cataracts replaced but with your garden variety lenses since I didn't need anything for assistance. They got rid of the cloudiness that plagued me. Seriously, I feel, optically, 34 years younger. Edit: Just for the hell of it, I just changed the size of the print on this website from 100% to 75% and could still read everything FWIW.

I take the BA at 5 caps ED ie about 3.5 gms, Lutein at 80 mgs ED and Taurine at 3 gms. In the beginning when I noticed my eyesight improving I went all out and used to take the BA and Taurine before my workouts in the morning as well as every night before bed. I effectively doubled my dosage at least 4 days per week and did so for probably 6 to 9 months.

I started about 2 years ago when I was measured and got the trifocals for my 3.25/3.75. Last year they switched me to the bifocals at 1.25/1.75 and now my wife was with me as the Opthalmologist confirmed I am now 20/20.

PS:My own experiences and those of my family and friends who have tried Ba and Taurine at my suggestion also include:
It has helped my recovery in the gym tremendously, of course I am 68 but I can start my next set almost twice as soon as before because of the BA. I stack it with my Creatine and L-Arginine.
My wife has eliminated her late night leg cramps with a combo of Taurine and Super-Cissus
My bud Gerry has greatly improved his blood counts from his chemo since he added the 5 caps of Taurine ED. He swears by it now.

[ericzimmerman34]

Beta Alanine worked very well for me when i took intraxcell. Also according to my Exercise Physiology and the NSCA Strength and Conditioning book im reading for the CSCS test it works so im gonna go with that and my personal experience. After my hypertophy phase im moving to a strenght training routine where im excited to try beta alanine again.

[206AK]

Beta Alanine is my favorite supplement hands down. I can tell a big difference taking it before and during training then when not.

I agree. If it promotes a positive reaction, then you should keep using it. If it loses the effectiveness, then cycle off and start again.

The same thing can be said about CEE, most people thinks its crap. It didnt do anything for me as well. However, you will see people on the forum who love it. Like any supplement, it works for some, and for others it doesnt.

[hulkhoganjr.]

Beta alanine is fairly new it should work!!

[chembroker]

Beta alanine is fairly new it should work!!

I bet this type of beta alanine will work pretty well.

US Patent Application 20090312419 - CREATINE BETA-ALANINATE: A NOVEL SALT FOR INCREASING ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE

[hulkhoganjr.]

I bet this type of beta alanine will work pretty well.

US Patent Application 20090312419 - CREATINE BETA-ALANINATE: A NOVEL SALT FOR INCREASING ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE

Technically it is not a salt otherwise that would make it a filter besides that creatine beta alanine has recently been studied this past decade and its basically a buffer hydrator of a creatine monohydrate cycle..more of a competitive approach

[chembroker]

Technically it is not a salt *snip*

Why isn't it a salt? See:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(chemistry)

It's not an amide:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amide

(there is no dehydration or condenscation so it is not an amide or "dipeptide").

Take a look here - http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid?base_reaction

Most amino acids have physical properties that are "salt-like" in action. Typically, amino acids are crystalline solids with relatively high melting points, and most are quite soluble in polar solvents (water) and insoluble in non-polar solvents. When solvated, the amino acid molecule appears to have a charge which changes with pH.

An intramolecular neutralization reaction leads to a "salt-like" ion called a zwitterion. The accepted practice is to show the amino acids in the zwitterion form.

(1) The carboxyl group can lose a hydrogen ion to become negatively charged.
(2) The amine group can accept a hydrogen ion to become positively charged.

So you lose or gain just a proton and not a water molecule.

You could connect beta alanine and creatine this way and it would be a salt or at least "salt like" - you could also tie them up in an amide/peptide bond where there would be a net lose of an H2O.

The difference being the latter would be very expensive to make and would be absorbed like a dipeptide in the gut while the former would be inexpensive to make and would "ionize" in something like water and would be absorbed like any other garden variety salt.

Creatine is not considered an "amino acid" by most people here but technically from the chemist's standpoint, it sure is!

The ideal thing? An admixture of salts and dipeptides to offer maximal absorption of both nutrients since they are absorbed in different places by different mechanisms.

This is one reason for using creatine monohydrate (like Creapure) and magnesium creatine chelate (like Magnapower) because it allows for creatine to be absorbed via two distinct mechanisms (as a salt and a de facto dipeptide) and allows for maximal creatine absorption. That you get a little magnesium in the deal too ain't so bad either.

The beta alanine salt of creatine has one advantage over an admixture of the two constituents. When given in a solid dose form like a capsule or tablet, the salt reduces the paresethesia you would feel normally from using creatine. Reasons for this are speculated forthwith in the cited patent application.

For whatever reason, the lack of paresthesia is usually not noted with other salts of beta alanine (e.g., HCl or SO4) but is surely noted with the dipeptides containing beta alanine (e.g., carnosine or anserine).

Nutritional chemistry lesson is over.