Don't Bulk or Cut - Transform Your Body!

[VegasPumped]

[QUOTE=dustyrising;501443401]

No disrespect. I think you have done an awesome job to earn that awesome physique you have, and I respect the way you achieved it.

I still think the OP has a pretty good transformation though. Take a look at his progress pictures.

Nov 9, 2009, that picture is inspiring.
Maybe it isn't that great to you, but if I could ever change my body composition to that, while eating normal, I'd be a very happy man, turning heads at the beach or not, I'd still be satisfied.


And I complimented him because he does have a great transformation, but like I said, you don't look at him and say, oh ****, he has to have his diet on key to look like that....and it's true. In college I looked like him too, lifted hard and ate **** food on calorie. If you want a decent physique, by all means, lift and just monitor calories a bit. If you want to look better, dont listen to his advice and strive for better because it really is achievable by anyone who has discipline.

Since we are pushing each others' buttons.

You said you had my body in college.
And now you're 30 years of age.
So it's safe to say that you are 6-10 years ahead of me, correct?

So if I attain a body like yours in 3 years, then my opinion will be more valid, correct?

Please answer this, I've heard this from people like.. 50 times.

People want to progress as fast as possible, that's why we makes articles like these, to inform people on how to do so.

So my goal is just that, to progress as fast as possible, and if I do that, top your mark of that body at 30 years of age.

Then people SHOULD listen to me, right?

No hate, maybe I'll hate in 3 years when I get your body
For now, I won't argue about the topic, listen to him if you think he knows more.
We both haven't shown credentials. Fair enough?

[dustyrising]

[QUOTE=SimplyJad;501483611]

Since we are pushing each others' buttons.

You said you had my body in college.
And now you're 30 years of age.
So it's safe to say that you are 6-10 years ahead of me, correct?

So if I attain a body like yours in 3 years, then my opinion will be more valid, correct?

Please answer this, I've heard this from people like.. 50 times.

People want to progress as fast as possible, that's why we makes articles like these, to inform people on how to do so.

So my goal is just that, to progress as fast as possible, and if I do that, top your mark of that body at 30 years of age.

Then people SHOULD listen to me, right?

No hate, maybe I'll hate in 3 years when I get your body
For now, I won't argue about the topic, listen to him if you think he knows more.
We both haven't shown credentials. Fair enough?

Yup, had your body at about 22-24 years old then quit training for about five years. Started back up this year, Jan. So yea, if that makes you feel better, if you can train for years on your program, and at my age look better than me, you are right lol.

[JeffyDOS]

I'll just do what Jad is doing... much simpler for me.
ANYWAYS!
I have an important question for you guys.
Do you weigh your chicken BEFORE or AFTER you cook it? Because if I have 18 oz of raw chicken, do I count it as 18 oz, or 12 oz after it is cooked?! I'm so confused.

[dustyrising]

I'll just do what Jad is doing... much simpler for me.
ANYWAYS!
I have an important question for you guys.
Do you weigh your chicken BEFORE or AFTER you cook it? Because if I have 18 oz of raw chicken, do I count it as 18 oz, or 12 oz after it is cooked?! I'm so confused.

weigh things either way man, when you look things up online they will give a cooked and uncooked listing. I weigh everything after because many things, like beef, lots of fat will cook out leaving more concentrated form of protein.

[JeffyDOS]

Alright thanks for the advice man.

[yoseff]

Not sure if I missed it but was there any reccomendation for macros or what did you follow?

[VegasPumped]

Not sure if I missed it but was there any reccomendation for macros or what did you follow?

Keep it balanced.
Sufficient protein..

A safe bet is 1 gram / pound of bodyweight.

As for fats and carbs..

Do whatever, but keep it sane.

Whether it's 250g of carbs a day or 60g is up to you.
Personally I don't do low carb otherwise I feel lazy and tired.

If you want 100g of fats/day, do that.

If you want 50g, you can do that too.

Flexibility is there.

[JeffyDOS]

I was able to increase on all the major lifts, but I couldn't get my last 2 reps on bench.
Do you think I should eat more, or just wait it out another week and couple days, because that will be the end of week three where I can judge better then than now?

[VegasPumped]

I was able to increase on all the major lifts, but I couldn't get my last 2 reps on bench.
Do you think I should eat more, or just wait it out another week and couple days, because that will be the end of week three where I can judge better then than now?

Alright, 1st of all stay on the same intake for another week and see if you still are hitting a wall on your lifts.

2nd of all.
It's up to you, do you wanna keep eating the same and continue recompositioning your body at a rate where you're getting leaner faster than you're progressing on your lifts?

Or is it more important for you to continue lifting heavier?

If you're happy with how lean you are, I would slowly increase the intake.
If you want to get lean, while making slow lift progress.
Keep the intake the same.

Oh and btw, people don't progress on their bench press as fast as they do on their squat & deadlift. So don't think that you're not making progress because you didn't add 10 pounds to your bench... just saying.

[tedsheckler]

Great thread. I've been doing pretty much what's described in the OP for the last 3 months, and I've steadily been losing body fat and gaining muscle mass.

Lost over 6 inches off my waist and gained over an inch on my arm.

Starting to turn up the intensity of my workouts and paying more attention to my supplementation, been more honest on my diet too. Hopefully I can start a real cut in 5 or 6 months.

[JeffyDOS]

Alright, 1st of all stay on the same intake for another week and see if you still are hitting a wall on your lifts.

2nd of all.
It's up to you, do you wanna keep eating the same and continue recompositioning your body at a rate where you're getting leaner faster than you're progressing on your lifts?

Or is it more important for you to continue lifting heavier?

If you're happy with how lean you are, I would slowly increase the intake.
If you want to get lean, while making slow lift progress.
Keep the intake the same.

Oh and btw, people don't progress on their bench press as fast as they do on their squat & deadlift. So don't think that you're not making progress because you didn't add 10 pounds to your bench... just saying.

Alright fasho.
I'll keep it the same for a while then, I'll just bump it up if I ever start to do cardio.

[JeffyDOS]

I said I was going to post weekly progress about this.
Well here I am, checkin' in.
Been eating cheesecake, mcdonalds, jack in the box, taco bell, you name it. I've been making sure to get my protein for the day though, and never exceed more than 2300 or 2400 cals, but I'm usually around 2200.

Start weight: 160
Current(After 2 weeks): 155

So far, so good.

[Ivankannan]

I said I was going to post weekly progress about this.
Well here I am, checkin' in.
Been eating cheesecake, mcdonalds, jack in the box, taco bell, you name it. I've been making sure to get my protein for the day though, and never exceed more than 2300 or 2400 cals, but I'm usually around 2200.

Start weight: 160
Current(After 2 weeks): 155

So far, so good.

Also it will be helpful to post the lift stats.

[JeffyDOS]

Also it will be helpful to post the lift stats.

For sure, my bad.
I'll just post the major lifts
START:
Bench - 140 3x6
Squat - 185 3x6
Deadlift - 205 3x6 (I probably could have done more)
Military Press - 90 3x6

Current(3rd week now):
Bench - 155 3x6 (needed help on last 2 reps of last set)
Squat - 195 3x6
Deadlift - 230 3x6
Military Press- 100 3x6

Not too heavy, but I'm satisfied with the results. Squats and bench are getting tougher. I think I'll be able to steadily increase DL for a little longer though.

[Duffmcwhalen]

I am going to follow this starting tomorrow. My only question is should keep eating at 2200 even though I get bloated?

[dustyrising]

no offense buddy, but it is literally scientifically impossible to lose 6 inches off your waist, lose weight, and gain OVER AN INCH in your ARM in three months. Unless you had them in a cast and they came out underworked for 6 months and then regrew, that's just impossible. Measure them cold and cold, or warm and warm.

[VegasPumped]

I am going to follow this starting tomorrow. My only question is should keep eating at 2200 even though I get bloated?

Yeah bro, you're failry young, and unless you have a thyroid problem, 2200 calories + weight lifting 4 or more times/week should do your body good.

Think about it this way, you're either gonna gain muscle, or gain muscle and lose fat.

You can definitely put on muscle as a beginner while shedding fat.

So if 2000 is your sweet spot, instead of lowering your intake, wait 1.5 months and your maintenance/sweet spot should be at 2200

More muscle will require a higher intake to maintain the muscle...
So, keep putting on muscle bro, lowering the calories may hurt your muscle progression/lift progress... don't wanna under eat.

[Ivankannan]

.........

[ciscovoiceguy]

How to transform your physique from out of shape, to a much leaner (toned/defined), fit and stronger one.

I am writing this because everyday, I see new trainees carrying a bulking and/or cutting mentality when trying to achieve the physique they desire.

Whether you are thin/skinny/flabby or you have 10-30 pounds of fat to shed, this nutrition/workout plan will work for you, that is if you are after:

Making lift progress (gym progress)
Changing body composition (mirror progress) (losing fat, gaining muscle)

My theory:

Consume the lowest calories possible, but enough to continue making progress in the gym.

Minimum 2000 calories, male or female, with a sufficient amount of protein.

Progress in the gym means:
Getting stronger every week. You are either squatting heavier, or performed better (lifted the same weight for more reps).


My promise: If you focus on lift progress, with the right amount of calories, the progress in the mirror you are looking for will appear.

This will require you to figure out your maintenance.
Be consistent in your caloric intake.
Count calories as accurate as possible.
Make sure your protein intake is covered.
Lift hard, keep track of your lift progress.
Give priority to the compound exercises, working your muscle groups in a sane manner.

Depending on how much physical activity you get, your intake may be higher, requiring you to eat much more than 2500 calories.
But, a smart choice would be to start off low, and increase calorie intake to shatter plateaus and continue gym progress.

For a thin/skinny/flabby/10-30 pounds over-weight male: 2200 calories, at ~150g of protein/day would be a good place to start.
For a female, 2000 would be the starting caloric intake, at 120g of protein.

Again, depending on how much cardio you are incorporating in your fitness program, eating more is a must. Otherwise, lift progress will take toll and so will mirror progress.

DO NOT UNDER EAT
2200 for a male, would be the starting intake.
If you are squatting, shoulder pressing, rowing, bench pressing, deadlifting more the following week, then you are doing it right. If your lifts slow down, keep the intake the same for another week, if you hit a wall, strength wise, up the calories by a 150. Get more rest and continue progress.

By the time you are around 2700 calories, you would have gained a lot of strength, for me by the time I was consuming 2700 calories, 4.5 months into lifting, my shoulder press went from 30 pound dumbells, to 75 pound dumbells, my deadlift went from 85 pounds, to 325 pounds.

It's simple.
You don't need 3000 calories as a beginner to make progress.
And if shedding fat is a big part of your goal physique (leaner/stronger), eating at a healthy 2000-2600 calories at the start, with enough protein will lead you there.

Diet:

Whole wheat pasta or ice cream. Doesn't matter.
Although the pasta may be a healthier choice.
When it comes down to mirror progress, a 300 calorie cookie won't be much different than 2 potatoes. At the end of the day, all that matters is that your intake is in the range best for your goals, for me right now, about 2700 calories. And the protein stays constant, for me around 170g/day.

Good job!!
Great Post!

[tenreps]

VERY good post, there is also another way of achieving a lean body (as far as nutrition goes) and that is carb cycling, on your low days you will be in a caloric defeciet and on your high days (that is above maintanience) you are building LBM. THAT is how get ready for competitions.

[JeffyDOS]

Checkin' in for 3rd week. Starting my 4th now.
Weight is the same... 155 lbs.
Only did squats so far since it is the first day of my 4th week, but I got 200 3x6 easily, way easier than last week. I was stoked. I'm still leaning out too. I'll probably take some pics on my ab day after a pump.

[VegasPumped]

Checkin' in for 3rd week. Starting my 4th now.
Weight is the same... 155 lbs.
Only did squats so far since it is the first day of my 4th week, but I got 200 3x6 easily, way easier than last week. I was stoked. I'm still leaning out too. I'll probably take some pics on my ab day after a pump.

Weight is still the same?
If it stays the same for longer then you're doing what I did, recompositioning without moving calories.

I stayed at 160 pounds for about 6 month bro.

[JeffyDOS]

Well, I started 160 at the first week.
Then after 2 weeks, I weighed in at 155.
Now, a week later, I'm still 155. I don't mind if I stay this weight... I just hope I get leaner. It seems unreal, considering I eat fast food 3-4 times a week, but my abs are slowly popping out. I used to not be able to feel ANY abs at all, even when I flex, now I feel, and sometimes see them after a workout.
I might drop cals down to 2,000 to see faster results, but most likely not. I love the foods I am able to eat right now

[JeffyDOS]

Pics...
This is how I was 3 weeks ago... flexed(I didn't know how to flex my abs though in this pic.)

Now
Flexed

Relaxed

[Boy.from.Brazil]

Hey Jad , very interesting thread.

I've been dieting , lifting and doing cardio for about 2-3 months , and I have already shed 22 pounds .

Since last week I'm doing exactaly what you posted. I'm 6'23" , and my wheight is currently 233 pounds , my maintainance calories level is 3500 , so I'm eating 2800 cal / day , 5-6 meals , right protein intake . I'm doing my cardio , 45 min 5 days a week , and lifting good.

Is that plain ok ?

thanxs in advance

[VegasPumped]

Hey Jad , very interesting thread.

I've been dieting , lifting and doing cardio for about 2-3 months , and I have already shed 22 pounds .

Since last week I'm doing exactaly what you posted. I'm 6'23" , and my wheight is currently 233 pounds , my maintainance calories level is 3500 , so I'm eating 2800 cal / day , 5-6 meals , right protein intake . I'm doing my cardio , 45 min 5 days a week , and lifting good.

Is that plain ok ?

thanxs in advance

Yeah, at 2800 until your fat loss stops.
Then you can drop it a little more, but for now, at your weight, it makes sense that your maintenance is really really high. As long as you keep lifting, you will make some sort of progress, be it muscle gain or fat loss.

Keep it up bro.

[jcolson]

I am writing this because everyday, I see new trainees carrying a bulking and/or cutting mentality when trying to achieve the physique they desire.

This one quote says it all.

Unless you are taking gobs of performance enhancing drugs, bulking up huge and trying to cut all the fat without losing you muscle is pretty much stupid.

A person can get quite ahead of themselves while bulking as they see strength and size come on. Then they cut and often find they are actually smaller and weaker than before. Staying in a cutting phase for a long period is just too detrimental not only to fat, but muscle too.

[vic6384]

Great post for a new guy like me... overall, I see a lot of comments like "you have to bulk, or cut, you can't do both." But for someone new, this makes much more sense. Thanks!

[Boy.from.Brazil]

Hey Jad ,

Thanks a lot for your reply man ! But I'm a little confused ...
Do you really think that 2800 is a high level for me ? You see , since my maintenance is about 3500 , if I go lower than 2800 won't I be undereating and going against the recomposition principles , at risk of losing fat and muscles , and becoming thin but weak .. ?

I know that 2800 sounds like a big number , but I'm a big guy (6'23'' - 233 lbs , and I don't "look" that fat , except for that ****ing belly fat that I madly want to get rid off ) , and if i go to 2500 I lose weight , but I also starve , lift without energy and start to look small .. (I know because I've been there once..)

So , I'm planning to continue around 3000/3200 cal (making a 500 cal deficit) , lifting and doing cardio with regularity , and checking my progress only by measuring my waist weekly , cause the scale weight probably will plateau at some time. If my waist plateau too I adjust to a 200 cal lower level and so ..

Is that ok or I misunderstood anything ?

Thanks a lot in advance ..

[VegasPumped]

Hey Jad ,

Thanks a lot for your reply man ! But I'm a little confused ...
Do you really think that 2800 is a high level for me ? You see , since my maintenance is about 3500 , if I go lower than 2800 won't I be undereating and going against the recomposition principles , at risk of losing fat and muscles , and becoming thin but weak .. ?

I know that 2800 sounds like a big number , but I'm a big guy (6'23'' - 233 lbs , and I don't "look" that fat , except for that ****ing belly fat that I madly want to get rid off ) , and if i go to 2500 I lose weight , but I also starve , lift without energy and start to look small .. (I know because I've been there once..)

So , I'm planning to continue around 3000/3200 cal (making a 500 cal deficit) , lifting and doing cardio with regularity , and checking my progress only by measuring my waist weekly , cause the scale weight probably will plateau at some time. If my waist plateau too I adjust to a 200 cal lower level and so ..

Is that ok or I misunderstood anything ?

Thanks a lot in advance ..

If you look at the 3rd line of my original post/article, you will see that I said that this method is best suited for people .... and people 10-30 pounds overweight.

At 233 pounds, 6 foot tall or not, an untrained or begginer trainee has a lot of fat on them, so eating at 2800 isn't under eating.

If you are after a beach body, I would shed fat while lifting (also called recomposition as you will be losing fat and gaining some muscle)...

At 2800, results will come fairly quick, you will lose fat, put on muscle, it's that simple.

Once you drop some fat, your maintenance will have gone down, so depending on how active you are now and then, 2800 may be your sweet spot for months bro.

It's all about trial and error to see where your maintenance is, but YOU want to eat under maintenance. This may be called cutting, but unless you're an advanced lifter with lots of muscle on you, you will be gaining muscle on this "cut".

Have fun with it, you will only look better. At 233, losing fat will come easy, again, I don't know how active you are and how your metabolism is, but if your maintenance is above 3000, any intake between 2500-2800 will do you good.