over training...

[babyslayer]

just wondering what the teen section members define over training as.

what makes something over training, in your opinions?


examples, and personal definitions, are welcome.




I make the thread because allot of people seem to have strong opinions on what overtraining is.

[JC_Strongman]

There's a few camps in here on overtraining. I personally hold to the idea that while it probably is possible to reach a point of overtraining, most people here simply don't push themselves that hard to reach that point (specifically the people who are "overtraining" on 3 day whole body splits). In most of these cases it's just undereating. If your diets perfect and you're still suffering chronic fatigue in the gym and your maxes are suffering than you're overtraining and you need to take a break or switch something up.

[pgan]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=19447

That should explain it to just about anybody, for those who are lazy and dont want to read:

High Volume x High Intensity x Extended period of time = systemic breakdown resulting in changes to your entire body, not just specific muscles/muscle groups.

A lot of people, however, think that overtraining is working out one part of your body to the extent that you can barely move it. That isn't overtraining. If you do that 3-4 times a week, it will probably eventually lead to overtraining though.

Edit: BTW, i DOUBT you can ever achieve overtraining by pumping up the volume and intensity in small muscle groups like say... your arms.

[Galindo62]

I've never overtrained so I can't really say.

Well maybe I have. Its when your body feels like ****. Kinda like you're sick. But not from bacteria or virus. Physical exhaustion that leads to mental exhaustion. ??????idunno.

[Aussie12]

IMO its mental/physical exhaustion that sets in over time, most likely due to under resting or under eating in most cases then again ive never overtrained myself

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Depends what type of over-training we are talking about here.

Over-trainnig is a physical, behavioral and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness.

To be honnest i dont actually think much people here on this forum will experience over-training unless they are not eating/sleeping properally, if anything they are not over-training, but rather under-eating and under-sleeping. But i would say a decent amount of members here do actually over-train certian muscle groups, for example the biceps or chest, everyone thinks the more you train the muscle the bigger it will get, so basically they are benching or curling many times per week in hoping to get good gains, but relly they are actually over-training that certian muscle group because they are training it again and again and again before the muscle gets time to fully recover and grow.

Training a muscle before it has fully recovered from the previous workout, is also over-training.

[CallmeKing]

My personal view on Overtraining is exerting a a muscle too complete exhuastion without giving it proper time to recover typically caused by undereating and undersleeping. I think it is also very mental I hear a ton of people I deadlifted 315x3 and only got 315x2 today I think I'm overtrained.

If your eating good with plenty of calories and a high protien intake with a good pre workout meal I don't really think you can overtrain unless your doing some crazy routine with tons of volume and going 6-7 times a week.

IMO I think the majority of people that say they overtrained and are not reaching there goals are most likely undertraining on some stupid routine and undereating.

[SiR_Mikey]

I've never overtrained so I can't really say.

Well maybe I have. Its when your body feels like ****. Kinda like you're sick. But not from bacteria or virus. Physical exhaustion that leads to mental exhaustion. ??????idunno.

That's exactly how I feel right now. My whole body hurts, my head hurts, all I want to do is lay down but I can't fall asleep. I just feel like all around **** and just kinda out of it all together(lack of focus). This is only the second time I've felt this way in the two years I've been lifting. I don't know if this would be a result from over training or not, but I'm calling it quits until Monday. What's weird is I skipped all last week (I take a week off every ~2 months). I don't think it would be a diet/rest problem as I eat 3500+ calories a day, get 9-11 hours of sleep a night and my lifts aren't suffering. Like I said, I don't know if this is a result of over training or not but it's not fun.

[N4th4n]

under eating.

[Bryannosaurus]

I posted a new thread about this but it didnt get any attn. a while ago i was i decided to add drop sets to every part of my chest work out (flat bench, incline bench, incline flies, flat) i stopped doing that out of fear of over training. was this a good idea?

[omg_otters]

Depends what type of over-training we are talking about here.

Over-trainnig is a physical, behavioral and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness.

To be honnest i dont actually think much people here on this forum will experience over-training unless they are not eating/sleeping properally, if anything they are not over-training, but rather under-eating and under-sleeping. But i would say a decent amount of members here do actually over-train certian muscle groups, for example the biceps or chest, everyone thinks the more you train the muscle the bigger it will get, so basically they are benching or curling many times per week in hoping to get good gains, but relly they are actually over-training that certian muscle group because they are training it again and again and again before the muscle gets time to fully recover and grow.

Training a muscle before it has fully recovered from the previous workout, is also over-training.

It's posts like this that make me question the theory behind sheiko-style training, which seems to be basically controlled overtraining for a short period.

Anyone got any input on this?

No thread hijack intended

[Gold_Adapter]

I have 3-4 day body routine every week intense and I don't feel over trained. Some times I feel so tired that I just wanta leave the gym and have no will power. But most of the time I love being in the gym I don't over train and you can't over train. Strong bro science I know, you just have to know your body.

[batmanman]

the only time I have over trained in my life was freshman year of high school when I benched, squatted, deadlifted, powercleaned, and military pressed monday-Friday for one summer straight, I felt sooo lazy in the weight room, when I would lift I would lay there and stare at the weight for like 10 minutes before doing one half assed rep with it, I didn't know what I was doing

[watermelon_2001]

I think the majority of people confuse overtraining with 'over-working.' Over-working, I believe, is short-term; not giving the muscles enough time to recover until the next time they are worked. In the long run, over-working can, I believe, lead to overtraining, but the two are different. When overtrained, it affects everything, not just your muscles. Your hormones suffer- the stress takes its toll on your CNS and endocrine system. Your immune system also won't function as it should, and you find yourself getting sick more often. Essentially, the continuous stress overwhelms your body, especially with so little rest. Your testosterone levels take a dive, and your libido suffers too. What's more, your whole approach to your working-out also becomes affected, and you can't push past a certain point

[Black_Label]

If peoples diets were in check I doubt a majority on the forums could over train at the current intensity.

Outside factor could contribute such as working in a restaurant, surfing, , and lift all on the same day repeatedly.

[BBEssentials]

If you're sore for over 2 days off of a part of a split

I did 2 weeks straight push/pull. I literally COULD NOT LIFT for 2 weeks No db's, barbell, anything. The day I was finally able to lift, all my lifts went up at least 30 lbs each.

[Galindo62]

I think the majority of people confuse overtraining with 'over-working.' Over-working, I believe, is short-term; not giving the muscles enough time to recover until the next time they are worked. In the long run, over-working can, I believe, lead to overtraining, but the two are different. When overtrained, it affects everything, not just your muscles. Your hormones suffer- the stress takes its toll on your CNS and endocrine system. Your immune system also won't function as it should, and you find yourself getting sick more often. Essentially, the continuous stress overwhelms your body, especially with so little rest. Your testosterone levels take a dive, and your libido suffers too. What's more, your whole approach to your working-out also becomes affected, and you can't push past a certain point

Yeah I totally agree wuth this.

The cns.

[Widge]

i know im overtaining when i am sore pretty much constantly even tho im only lifting 3x a week, i feel tired often and lack motivation + stregnth is down or at best plateaud

this usually co-insides at about 7-10 weeks of hard training.

edit- well maybe im not overtraining, but i need to deload my CNS at this point

[lertno]

If your not able to do more reps or more weight then the last workout then your most likely working out too soon. Your body hasn't recovered enough.

[Ka0s]

if my 1rm on an exercise was 400, and for a few workouts in a row, I felt like I couldnt hit 320-350 for a single this would indicate that I am overtrained. (rule of thumb = 20% drop in performance, which continues for longer than 1 workout)

[Unst0pp4bl3]

When you train to the point that addition volume/workouts are no longer beneficial towards your goals.

For example, if you are running smolov and you are still squatting while sore, thats not "over training", because you are still making gains and helping your squat. But to a lot of people, DOMs means they are over training and are doing something wrong.

On the other hand, if you are in the gym doing 5 different exercises for forearms, that is over training in a sense, because doing another ****ing set isnt going to do anything. That is IMO, "over training"

[Ka0s]

When you train to the point that addition volume/workouts are no longer beneficial towards your goals.

For example, if you are running smolov and you are still squatting while sore, thats not "over training", because you are still making gains and helping your squat. But to a lot of people, DOMs means they are over training and are doing something wrong.

On the other hand, if you are in the gym doing 5 different exercises for forearms, that is over training in a sense, because doing another ****ing set isnt going to do anything. That is IMO, "over training"

hmm... you have a good point but IDK if I would call that overtraining. Theres gotta be another word for it, because based on your description doing 1000 crunches a day is 'overtraining'... which it isn't, its just pointless.

[NeoginCF]

overtraining is training in such a way that you destroy your body instead of building it

[NeoginCF]

If your not able to do more reps or more weight then the last workout then your most likely working out too soon. Your body hasn't recovered enough.

strong post count to join date ratio

[AirChair]

Half of Teen is retarded and thinks doing more than three sets of curls a week is "overtraining".

[babyslayer]

There's a few camps in here on overtraining. I personally hold to the idea that while it probably is possible to reach a point of overtraining, most people here simply don't push themselves that hard to reach that point (specifically the people who are "overtraining" on 3 day whole body splits). In most of these cases it's just undereating. If your diets perfect and you're still suffering chronic fatigue in the gym and your maxes are suffering than you're overtraining and you need to take a break or switch something up.

I see, but if they were "over training", and then took a few days completley off and fully recovered, they would no longer be over training?

a proper diet would speed up recovery (obv would do other things aswell), avoiding over training, but that would be more or less doing the same thing as taking a extra few days off every once in a while.


so it wouldnt be over working, it would be under resting for long periods of time.



so what it would really come down too, is not how often you work a muscle, or how heavy, or how much volume, but if you give it enough rest to recover once the "over training" is over.


so in theory, a person could train the same muscle group hard, and with allot of volume, for 3-4 days in a row, followed by enough time off to recover, and not be over training..


where as a person could train a muscle group every other day, or every 3rd day, and be over training, because he never gave him self enough time off for his body to over compensate and grow in size and strength. because he continually breaks down more muscle before he allows it to recover, and just builds up fatigue to the point that his gains could start going backwards after enough time.


but if he was to train a muscle every other day for, say, a period of 2 weeks, and then follow it with 5-6 full days off, that wouldnt be over traning.



so the real problem with over training IMO, isnt how much work, or how often its done, but if the person is clever enough to know when its time to take extra time off.


theres allot of teens here asking questions like, is training chest 2 days in a row over training? can i do another 5 sets per back on back day, or is that over training? etc.

and allot of people would say, yeah thats over training.


but in reality, is it really over training if they adjust their diet and rest time to suite the extra demand they put on their body? no.


anyone see any flaws in this logic?

[KRILLEN91]

i know im overtaining when i am sore pretty much constantly even tho im only lifting 3x a week, i feel tired often and lack motivation + stregnth is down or at best plateaud

this usually co-insides at about 7-10 weeks of hard training.

edit- well maybe im not overtraining, but i need to deload my CNS at this point

you can't overtrain lifting 3x a week.

[KRILLEN91]

If your not able to do more reps or more weight then the last workout then your most likely working out too soon. Your body hasn't recovered enough.

no that just means your not making linear progression each week and linear progression slows down a lot the longer you lift. Going by your theory everyone would be benching, squatting and deadlifting 55000000000000lbs unless they're 'overtraining'.

[babyslayer]

overtraining is training in such a way that you destroy your body instead of building it

but thats what training is... training is destroying your body, and then your body building its self back up stronger.

so in theory the harder you tear your self down, the more your body will over compensate to avoid having the same problem again.


i guess the question would be how much is too much volume/weight/frequency, but when you take into account that your body WILL recover given enough time, food, etc, its very hard to answer that question.

[babyslayer]

no that just means your not making linear progression each week and linear progression slows down a lot the longer you lift. Going by your theory everyone would be benching, squatting and deadlifting 55000000000000lbs unless they're 'overtraining'.

agreed