Oak's "I think ill go pro" training log....

[Blazed]

I think he meant metabolic rate.

Its hard to estimate, but spending the day with someone I can usually get a feel for how much or how little they eat. Some people claim to not eat a lot and I watch them eat such calorie dense foods that they underestimate what they eat by half.

If shes eating 2500-3000 cals a day now (which sounds like a lot but if your eating fried/fatty/sugary foods its so easy to hit that number) than 1500 might be a tad low.

I know my gf (93lbs) maintains on ~1800 cals a day. She is 19 y/o though and def has a faster metabolism than a 51 y/o woman.

[BuckSpin]

Her resting heart rate is 70 BPM.

My bad. I meant her Resting Metabolic Rate. Usually determined by height, weight, age & gender. Its the cals her body would burn doing absolutely nothing but occupying space over a day. I tend to use that because determining a real BMR is, to me, a real guesstimate as far as activity, etc.

A RHR of 70BPM is definitely something that should be considered. Activity should be introduced slowly, but made steadily more challenging, etc.

I get a LOT of PMs regarding weight loss as a result of my transformation, and typically from someone who, physically, sounds like your mom. In that I have been burned a LOT as far as detailed replies....only to never see/hear from them again....I usually suggest things along these lines to start:

1) DO NOT DIET. Worst thing you can do. Make a lifestyle change.
2) Clean up the nutrition. This alone usually starts steady weight loss
3) Start doing something/anything for 30 minutes/day, if they can handle that (I have some stories that made my 43% BF, 270lb @$$ look downright stage ready) Does not matter what. I usually find walking to be the best. Just walk 15 minutes one direction & turn around. Make a mental note (or journal) of how far you walked (if outside, a landmark, if a *ugh* treadmill, the actual distance) Next time either:
- Walk one mailbox/driveway/power pole further, or at least 100 feet more if on a treadmill)
- Try to walk the same distance but just a lil' bit faster. Reach the same point in just under 15 minutes, etc.

A lot of times they are gung-ho to start lifting, which is cool, but lets be realistic about what can happen after a lifetime/long time of nothing like this. I'll usually suggest just doing some bodyweight stuff. I lost 70lbs in 13.5 weeks and lifted nothing heavier than my fat @$$, but I did 1000s of bodyweight squats & lunges along the way.

Of course I always recommend (actually suggest/insist) on seeing their HCP for a check-up to make sure they can handle physical activity and that there are no underlying issues.

Hope this helps...

[AustrianOakJr]

Those are some great suggestions Buckspin. And she has lost weight before doing those things. I dont know if a more disciplined approach will be good or bad. I talked to her about being strict during the week and then loosening up on the weekends.

Yea, she think she doesnt eat much, and she probably never does eat a lot of food, but as Blazed said, her food is calorie dense. Her "dieting" is eating a chicken salad......and then topping it avacado and drenching it in olive oil. When I explained to her that 1 TBSP of olive oil is like 14g of fat and thats 125 calories......and shes putting multiple TBSP's of oil on the salad....she was surprised that the olive oil was "bad" for you.

People in general get very hung up on "good" food vs. "bad" food and dont realize that even though it may be healthy, anything to excess is gonna make you gain. Her problem is the fats.....butter, olive oil, half n half in the coffee......butter....did I mention butter? Everything is cooked in loads of butter. So, part of me setting her up on the diet is to help her learn what her food intake should look like for the day and then hopefully so she can make the lifestyle change without calculating serving sizes.....she'll be able to do it in her head.

As for RMR......no idea. I guess thats what im trying to figure out. I just saw her last blood pressure test results........180/100....

[stayfit2008]

I bet if you wrote out a diet plan where she would be eating anywhere from 6-8 meals/day to get that netabolism kicking in gear and either get her a gym membership where she could take some type of strength training class about 3 days/week and then some cardio in between would be great for her whole well being.

As for the diet,..you would have to kinda feel what a good starting point would be from there and than adjust the macros accordingly to support weight loss.

Oh,..and once she gets into the groove,..she can start a Journal here,.. or maybe in the O35 group where my old but belongs! hehe

[Ian_B]

man to be honest the worst thing you can do for a beginner is give them set macronutrient intakes

she needs to understand the whole concept of calories in/calories out and creating a deficit before you get that specific

Edit: and what would help more than anything would be to get her much more active... she'd lose a good chunk of weight just from exercise most probably

[Blazed]

Oak, try to get her using light vinaigrette dressings, cooking spray for frying foods, switch to skim milk and splenda in coffee etc.

From the sound of it she might be getting a couple K cals/day just from fat intake.

[BuckSpin]

nd she probably never does eat a lot of food, but as Blazed said, her food is calorie dense. Her "dieting" is eating a chicken salad......and then topping it avacado and drenching it in olive oil. When I explained to her that 1 TBSP of olive oil is like 14g of fat and thats 125 calories......and shes putting multiple TBSP's of oil on the salad....she was surprised that the olive oil was "bad" for you.

If she loves doing the salad thang, here is a GREAT way to reduce the cals:

Pour a measured amount of a salad dressing in a small bowl. Prior to each bite of salad, dunk the prongs of the fork in the dressing. Now stab a forkful of salad. Repeat until salad is gone.

You end up using a LOT less dressing this way, plus you ensure every bite has dressing on it. I do this when we will stop somewhere & you get one of those small plastic containers of dressing.

Other "tricks":
- Use salad or bread plates for the entree (makes it look like more)
- Put every side dish in its own small bowl. You have a lean protein, some veggies, a starch & a salad, etc & your place setting is just COVERED with dishes. It looks like a ton of food!
- Use smaller flatware. Eating with a salad fork & an iced tea spoon takes a lot longer in that they can't hold as much
- The big glass of ice water pre-meal helps
- Only cook the portion you are eating. Not tempted for 2nds that way

I have tons of these...

[Whomper107]

I agree that having her count calories/macros is not the way to go. That is a pretty daunting task to a non-bodybuilder, and most people simply are not willing to go to those lengths to achieve their goals. A better idea would be to show her substitutes for the calorie dense foods she enjoys. Send her to www.hungry-girl.com - they have a lot of good ideas on food substitutions, and low calorie versions of typical unhealthy dishes. I showed the site to my Mom and she loves it. If you can just get her to understand that it is not our food choices which dictate weight loss, but the calorie content of them, then hopefully she will begin to see that the key to successful dieting is portion control.

[BuckSpin]

I agree that having her count calories/macros is not the way to go. That is a pretty daunting task to a non-bodybuilder, and most people simply are not willing to go to those lengths to achieve their goals. A better idea would be to show her substitutes for the calorie dense foods she enjoys. Send her to www.hungry-girl.com - they have a lot of good ideas on food substitutions, and low calorie versions of typical unhealthy dishes. I showed the site to my Mom and she loves it. If you can just get her to understand that it is not our food choices which dictate weight loss, but the calorie content of them, then hopefully she will begin to see that the key to successful dieting is portion control.

That site rocks! LOL My wife is checking it out now.

From a BB viewpoint, if you use a customizable nutrition software that allows you to enter recipes & portion sizes, anyone could work that stuff into their macros if they chose.

[Quelly]

subbed in here....and as to the title...I think you'll go pro too, probably next time you hit the stage brother!

EDIT oh and oak...I work with a lot of clients that sound just like your mom...first things first is I have them buy a food scale and get a fitday account and just track what they eat....not with any goals in mind but just track. Do this for 1-2 weeks and first off...they learn a ton, and secondly you can find their baseline for what they are maintaining their weight with...you can go from there....most of the time you see some positive changes just by the person getting more aware of what they are consuming on a regular basis though.

[FATHER FLEX]

subbed in here....and as to the title...I think you'll go pro too, probably next time you hit the stage brother!

EDIT oh and oak...I work with a lot of clients that sound just like your mom...first things first is I have them buy a food scale and get a fitday account and just track what they eat....not with any goals in mind but just track. Do this for 1-2 weeks and first off...they learn a ton, and secondly you can find their baseline for what they are maintaining their weight with...you can go from there....most of the time you see some positive changes just by the person getting more aware of what they are consuming on a regular basis though.

Great approach I used it with my momma as well. If most bodybuilders that have never monitored their intake closely, think they have a good idea about how much they are taking in, can often be off. For the beginer trainee, you can only imagine.

[stayfit2008]

I actually did this for my wife,..I did the diet and tweaked it til we got her maitanance intake,..then subtracted a few macros. She began to lose weighht 1-2lbs/week. This along with the P90X system she really started losing the poundage and getting tighter. Unfortunately she had to stop the plan to take care of her mother who came out of knee surgery she said she would get back into it,...that was over a year ago,..Ha!

[AustrianOakJr]

I bet if you wrote out a diet plan where she would be eating anywhere from 6-8 meals/day to get that netabolism kicking in gear and either get her a gym membership where she could take some type of strength training class about 3 days/week and then some cardio in between would be great for her whole well being.

That was the one thing she didnt want to have to do. I guess this is the most unappealing thing to her about how I eat......the multiple meals a day. My mom and dad own their own business and its like craziness for them from 9AM to 6PM....they barely have time to eat one lunch. I told her no biggie she can eat 3 times a day (plus a pre-bed snack). I think the multiple times a day does help the metabolism to some degree, but its definately not a deal breaker for a diet.

man to be honest the worst thing you can do for a beginner is give them set macronutrient intakes

she needs to understand the whole concept of calories in/calories out and creating a deficit before you get that specific

Edit: and what would help more than anything would be to get her much more active... she'd lose a good chunk of weight just from exercise most probably

I didnt actually give her the macro profile and tell her to track. We sat down and talked about what foods she likes to eat and would eat on a daily basis. I did all the macro figuring for her and just put foods together into categories......proteins, carbs and fats. Then I just told her how many servings of each she should have for the day. So, all she does is pick the foods from each column that she wants to put together for the meal. She has no idea what the macro/calorie count is. I figured this would get her used to seeing what her portions SHOULD look like and also teach her that she doesnt need to eat salad for every meal.

As for the activity, shes already a member at Golds, but getting her to go is another story. She's got a bad knee and shoulder and cant really do a lot in the way of resistance training or even walking on the treadmill. She is limited to the pool and the recumbant bike.

Oak, try to get her using light vinaigrette dressings, cooking spray for frying foods, switch to skim milk and splenda in coffee etc.

From the sound of it she might be getting a couple K cals/day just from fat intake.

Yea, we got into this quite a bit. Everything is DOUSED in butter when cooking. She made my kids french toast yesterday......when I make it, I use a little pam or smart balance to grease the pan.......well, she GREASES the pan.....and then added a slab of butter to each side of the toast before it goes in it. Man, it tastes good! But, carries an extra 100 cals a slice.

If she loves doing the salad thang, here is a GREAT way to reduce the cals:

Pour a measured amount of a salad dressing in a small bowl. Prior to each bite of salad, dunk the prongs of the fork in the dressing. Now stab a forkful of salad. Repeat until salad is gone.

You end up using a LOT less dressing this way, plus you ensure every bite has dressing on it. I do this when we will stop somewhere & you get one of those small plastic containers of dressing.

Other "tricks":
- Use salad or bread plates for the entree (makes it look like more)
- Put every side dish in its own small bowl. You have a lean protein, some veggies, a starch & a salad, etc & your place setting is just COVERED with dishes. It looks like a ton of food!
- Use smaller flatware. Eating with a salad fork & an iced tea spoon takes a lot longer in that they can't hold as much
- The big glass of ice water pre-meal helps
- Only cook the portion you are eating. Not tempted for 2nds that way

I have tons of these...

Nice tips. THe water is a big one. I was talking to her about water and the importance of it. For me, this is big when I diet.....slamming a big glass of water with my meals makes my stomach feel fuller.

I agree that having her count calories/macros is not the way to go. That is a pretty daunting task to a non-bodybuilder, and most people simply are not willing to go to those lengths to achieve their goals. A better idea would be to show her substitutes for the calorie dense foods she enjoys. Send her to www.hungry-girl.com - they have a lot of good ideas on food substitutions, and low calorie versions of typical unhealthy dishes. I showed the site to my Mom and she loves it. If you can just get her to understand that it is not our food choices which dictate weight loss, but the calorie content of them, then hopefully she will begin to see that the key to successful dieting is portion control.

Thats an awesome site. I may be referring to "hungry girl" myself now.

subbed in here....and as to the title...I think you'll go pro too, probably next time you hit the stage brother!

EDIT oh and oak...I work with a lot of clients that sound just like your mom...first things first is I have them buy a food scale and get a fitday account and just track what they eat....not with any goals in mind but just track. Do this for 1-2 weeks and first off...they learn a ton, and secondly you can find their baseline for what they are maintaining their weight with...you can go from there....most of the time you see some positive changes just by the person getting more aware of what they are consuming on a regular basis though.

Thanks Eric......im hoping the pro thing comes next time also, but I dont want to be presumptious because I dont want to get complacent in my training. Gotta push hard to get where I want to go......and going pro and being competitive at the pro level are very different things, so ive got a lot of work to do!

Great approach I used it with my momma as well. If most bodybuilders that have never monitored their intake closely, think they have a good idea about how much they are taking in, can often be off. For the beginer trainee, you can only imagine.

Yea, I guess I should learn how to use fitday myself. Im a pencil and paper guy because I find it more of a portable way to track my macros. She's pretty good with computers and works with one all day long, so it probably would be good for her.

[AustrianOakJr]

174 lbs this morning.....uuuuughh. 2.5 lbs in three days.....that sucks. Hopefully, thats a lot of water and bowels. Im really hoping I level out at about 172 before thanksgiving. Right now im up 11 lbs from my most depleted weight three weeks ago. I feel like im gaining a bit too fast. Back to my numbers for three days before another three days of eating. Thanksgiving is murder......but its soooooooo good.

I tell you, I feel freaking great though. Energy is just through the roof.

[stayfit2008]

174 lbs this morning.....uuuuughh. 2.5 lbs in three days.....that sucks. Hopefully, thats a lot of water and bowels. Im really hoping I level out at about 172 before thanksgiving. Right now im up 11 lbs from my most depleted weight three weeks ago. I feel like im gaining a bit too fast. Back to my numbers for three days before another three days of eating. Thanksgiving is murder......but its soooooooo good.

I tell you, I feel freaking great though. Energy is just through the roof.

Ahhh,..don't fret it! Take advantage of the new strength that will follow!

I'm up 15lbs. from comp weight,...even with shoulder injury,..my strength is amping up nice! Plus,..filling in the shirts feels nice again!

[Blazed]

Haha your heavier than me!

I'm actually 2.2lbs under stage weight as of this morning though =o

[AustrianOakJr]

Ahhh,..don't fret it! Take advantage of the new strength that will follow!

I'm up 15lbs. from comp weight,...even with shoulder injury,..my strength is amping up nice! Plus,..filling in the shirts feels nice again!

Im not fretting it too much. But, I dont want to go buck nutty either. Trying to keep a balanced approach.

Haha your heavier than me!

I'm actually 2.2lbs under stage weight as of this morning though =o

Well, arent you SPECIAL??

If you want to go by STAGE weight, im only up 6-7 lbs.....will probably settle out at 5 lbs over. That sounds a lot better, no?

I seem to be adding it well. I definately filled out a lot. Im thicker all around and my abs are only a little blurred. I think I put it on in my love handle area first though.

[Quelly]

yeah the 3 meals a day thing is no biggie, the latest studies actually show that 3 meals a day is slightly better than 6+ as far as body comp is concerned lol...

[RooRooTJ]

Missed this but i am here now.

[AustrianOakJr]

yeah the 3 meals a day thing is no biggie, the latest studies actually show that 3 meals a day is slightly better than 6+ as far as body comp is concerned lol...

Especially not a biggie for non-bb'er who's just looking to cut some weight.

Missed this but i am here now.

Werd.

[AustrianOakJr]

LOWER POWER

Big workout today. Major drainage to the CNS. I tried to move some big weight and was somewhat successful, but I was a bit disappointed in my deadlifts. I dont know if its that I havent done all out dead lifts since about 8 weeks out or that I did dead lifts after heavy hack squats, but I just couldnt move the weight that I used to. I got 405 for TWO. DOH! Used to be able to crank 7 reps with that weight....but that was at 190 lbs and at the beginning of my workout. Next time I do dead lifts, ill move them to the first exercise and see if that changes things.

HACK SQUATS

495 X 6 reps (little help)
545 X 4 reps (little help)
545 X 3 reps (wife couldnt help enough to get the 4th!) (she needs to start working out)

DEAD LIFTS

315 X 6 (lots left on that, but easing into it)
405 X 2 (crap)
365 X 5

BARBELL LUNGES

185 X 5 (ea)
195 X 5 (ea)

Smoked.......

[AustrianOakJr]

Question for guys who have some experience with this split......

Should I being going this heavy every week on my power days? 3-5 rep range? Or should I be deloading? If so, how often?

[Quelly]

Question for guys who have some experience with this split......

Should I being going this heavy every week on my power days? 3-5 rep range? Or should I be deloading? If so, how often?

I'd say do something like this little cycle

week 1: hit a 90% of rep range max
week 2: set a new PR
week 3: try to break the PR
week 4: deload it (75-80% focus on form and speed)
repeat

[liftjunkie06]

subbed!

[Zarazen]

LOWER POWER

Big workout today. Major drainage to the CNS. I tried to move some big weight and was somewhat successful, but I was a bit disappointed in my deadlifts. I dont know if its that I havent done all out dead lifts since about 8 weeks out or that I did dead lifts after heavy hack squats, but I just couldnt move the weight that I used to. I got 405 for TWO. DOH! Used to be able to crank 7 reps with that weight....but that was at 190 lbs and at the beginning of my workout. Next time I do dead lifts, ill move them to the first exercise and see if that changes things.

HACK SQUATS

495 X 6 reps (little help)
545 X 4 reps (little help)
545 X 3 reps (wife couldnt help enough to get the 4th!) (she needs to start working out)

DEAD LIFTS

315 X 6 (lots left on that, but easing into it)
405 X 2 (crap)
365 X 5

BARBELL LUNGES

185 X 5 (ea)
195 X 5 (ea)

Smoked.......

Some huge lifts for your weight!! Checked out some pics of your last contest. You came in looking great. Good luck with the pro card.

I'd say do something like this little cycle

week 1: hit a 90% of rep range max
week 2: set a new PR
week 3: try to break the PR
week 4: deload it (75-80% focus on form and speed)
repeat

I always wanted to know how exactly to work out my power days. Thanks for the info. Not trying to hijack the thread just wanted a little more info. If i can squat 280 x 6 in week 1 then get 285 x 5 then next week then again hit 285 x 5 the next week but with difficulty then the next week I would deload the weight to 75-80% of my 1RM or 75-80% of 285? Then back to where I left off the week after which was 285?

[Sporto1633]

Question for guys who have some experience with this split......

Should I being going this heavy every week on my power days? 3-5 rep range? Or should I be deloading? If so, how often?

Sup homie

The strength progression you see some of us doing is the "deload" built into the program. Wha tyou will find is that by continually going all out on max strength days, your CNS will eventually cash out. THe timing is different for everyone, but a few weeks is about average. Once you find that your strength isn't going up on those days and/or you are mentally getting a little burned out (even for the lighter days), then it's time to throw in the strength progression.

Eric gave a good example

Another good one is

Week 1: 65-70%
Week 2: 80-82.5%
Week 3: 90%
Week 4: 100%-PR

Rinse and Repeat

Sporto

[Exa123]

Another good one is

Week 1: 65-70%
Week 2: 80-82.5%
Week 3: 90%
Week 4: 100%-PR

Rinse and Repeat

Sporto

I have used something along these lines to great effect all off season and now contest prep
Preps more (80/90/100/PR) off season was (70/82.5/90/100/PR)

Kept my CNS fresh and i didnt need to take anytime away from the gym yet i kept progressing weekly!

[AustrianOakJr]

I'd say do something like this little cycle

week 1: hit a 90% of rep range max
week 2: set a new PR
week 3: try to break the PR
week 4: deload it (75-80% focus on form and speed)
repeat

Sup homie

The strength progression you see some of us doing is the "deload" built into the program. Wha tyou will find is that by continually going all out on max strength days, your CNS will eventually cash out. THe timing is different for everyone, but a few weeks is about average. Once you find that your strength isn't going up on those days and/or you are mentally getting a little burned out (even for the lighter days), then it's time to throw in the strength progression.

Eric gave a good example

Another good one is

Week 1: 65-70%
Week 2: 80-82.5%
Week 3: 90%
Week 4: 100%-PR

Rinse and Repeat

Sporto

I have used something along these lines to great effect all off season and now contest prep
Preps more (80/90/100/PR) off season was (70/82.5/90/100/PR)

Kept my CNS fresh and i didnt need to take anytime away from the gym yet i kept progressing weekly!

You guys are a'ight. THanks. Im glad that I asked b/c I would have just kept cranking it out until my head exploded one day in the gym or my arms ripped off at the shoulders while trying to deadlift SUV's in the parking lot.

So, when you guys are talking about %'s......I assume you are referring to a % of your 1 rep max, right? So, there are weeks where I will be doing one rep max's (100% weeks) on all my exercises? That would constitute a set.....just one rep?

subbed!

Some huge lifts for your weight!! Checked out some pics of your last contest. You came in looking great. Good luck with the pro card

Thanks guys. Glad to have you stop in.

[fitbanker]

Sean, just sub'd to this thread and looking forward to progress! I have been using a strictly strength training routine for the past 9 months with excellent strength gains, in my opinion. Initially, didn't like the switch over from hypertrophic training and not having any pump at all! But the gains in strength and new PRs in all of my lifts began to replace the "feeling of the pump" in my workouts. I've now transitioned back to hypertrophic training. The pump is back and I'm loving it too! Also, with the strength gains made over this year, I'm now able to work harder and focused on my goal of gaining size during this phase of training.

Good luck with your goals for the next year, and much success with your training!

[Zarazen]

Sup homie

The strength progression you see some of us doing is the "deload" built into the program. Wha tyou will find is that by continually going all out on max strength days, your CNS will eventually cash out. THe timing is different for everyone, but a few weeks is about average. Once you find that your strength isn't going up on those days and/or you are mentally getting a little burned out (even for the lighter days), then it's time to throw in the strength progression.

Eric gave a good example

Another good one is

Week 1: 65-70%
Week 2: 80-82.5%
Week 3: 90%
Week 4: 100%-PR

Rinse and Repeat

Sporto

Just wanted to know if rep scheme stays the same even though weight decrases?

Oak, hope i'm not derailing your journal...let me know if i am