Cancer Proliferation & Phosphatidic acid

[scythelx]

Hi All,

Apologies if this post is taken as naive. However, I've been reading some studies related to phosphatidic acid and cancer. From what I understand MTOR is upregulated in cancer cells. If PA upregulates MTOR, for someone that has cancer could the PA cause an increased proliferation of said cancer?

To note, I've just read observations not conclusions. E.g. I haven't found verbatim PA will cause your cancer to spread, etc. Just curious, I guess, to what anyone else's thoughts are.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19264150
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17613433

[MuscleUpCrohns]

Hi All,

Apologies if this post is taken as naive. However, I've been reading some studies related to phosphatidic acid and cancer. From what I understand MTOR is upregulated in cancer cells. If PA upregulates MTOR, for someone that has cancer could the PA cause an increased proliferation of said cancer?

To note, I've just read observations not conclusions. E.g. I haven't found verbatim PA will cause your cancer to spread, etc. Just curious, I guess, to what anyone else's thoughts are.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19264150
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17613433

I'm glad to see that you're not asking if it will CAUSE cancer, but if it can enhance cancer growth.

Leucine can also stimulate mTOR signalling, and a study found that:

leucine supplementation enhances tumor growth in both lean and overweight mice through diet-dependent effects in a murine model of pancreatic cancer...

This report establishes that dietary leucine supplementation, irrespective of energy balance status, promotes pancreatic tumor growth. These findings suggest caution regarding the clinical use of leucine supplementation for purposes of lean muscle enhancement in cachectic cancer patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392529/

I suppose that, if you have cancer, PA supplementation may not be the best idea.

With that said, another rat study found that "exercise has beneficial effects by reducing tumor growth, leading to an improvement in protein turnover especially when in conjunction with a leucine-rich diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058197

and another study found that "Interestingly, leucine and valine produced a small, but significant, inhibition of tumour growth"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267397/

I haven't done much research on this topic though, so I'm curious what some other knowledgeable people have to say. I still can't say that I'd recommend PA supplementation if you have cancer though.

[UNCnate]

Hi All,

Apologies if this post is taken as naive. However, I've been reading some studies related to phosphatidic acid and cancer. From what I understand MTOR is upregulated in cancer cells. If PA upregulates MTOR, for someone that has cancer could the PA cause an increased proliferation of said cancer?

To note, I've just read observations not conclusions. E.g. I haven't found verbatim PA will cause your cancer to spread, etc. Just curious, I guess, to what anyone else's thoughts are.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19264150
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17613433

I think if a person knows they have cancer, they should focus on doing what their doctors say as far as treatment and put aside supplementation for fitness goals for the time being.

[OT2000]

You would have to understand the mTor pathways to get its influence on cancer cell growth. There are anti cancer drugs that inhibit mTor so what should that tell you? Keep in mind PA is not the only influential mTor factor. Overall I would not be supplementing PA if you have cancer. I wouldn't be tryin to influence mTor in general in that condition.

[llahhsoj]

I wouldn't use it if a person has cancer.

[emergency]

If you have Cancer you should not be using any supplements not recommended by your doc or healthcare team

[scythelx]

If you have Cancer you should not be using any supplements not recommended by your doc or healthcare team

I agree.

My question on the interpretation of the literature was more rooted around those who are in remission or susceptible to cancer. Whether through genetic history, or outside factors. I didn't make that really clear though in the original post.

Anyways, I think this boils down to the following. If you have cancer, had cancer, or have risks (genetic or otherwise) of cancer, this supplement wouldn't be advised.

[UNCnate]

I agree.

My question on the interpretation of the literature was more rooted around those who are in remission or susceptible to cancer. Whether through genetic history, or outside factors. I didn't make that really clear though in the original post.

Anyways, I think this boils down to the following. If you have cancer, had cancer, or have risks (genetic or otherwise) of cancer, this supplement wouldn't be advised.

That's a fair argument. Though someone could counterpoint and say without having a screening done, how could you ascertain risks.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

Somewhat related: while leucine is sometimes used to treat cancer cachexia, HMB may be a better option, as it is more effective at attenuating loss of body weight than leucine, and also stimulates mTOR signalling to a lesser extent than leucine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24984997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690694/