Replacement for BB squats in my routine?

[Glamorous]

Hey ladies! What combination of exercises can I do to replace any form of BB squats in my 5x5 lifting routine? I've been on Strong Lifts 5x5 for 9 months and have been seeing gains in strength and losses in fat up until recently.

My biggest issue is that I have horrible (embarrassing!) hip and ankle flexibility. I will literally fall over if I try to do a proper back squat...or, I can do a half assed one with almost no depth. I have read the tutorials and tried them - but the issue is not that I can't do the form...it's that my legs aren't flexible enough for me to get any depth. I hit a point and then start leaning forward instead of going back and down. My ankles are really tight (up in the front shin area) and then my hips are all weird. I am doing stretches, foam rolling, getting professional massages monthly and was even seeing a chiropractor, but my flexibility is just horrid.

So, until I can greatly increase my flexibility, what alternative leg work out would be effective? My posterior is severely lacking (see progress pics, but don't laugh).

Strong Lifts 5x5 has me doing back squats 5x5 on EVERY work out (3x/week) and then deadlifts 1x5 on alternating workouts - following an ABA, BAB schedule. I have no issue with deadlifts, but obviously not doing proper squats is making this program almost useless.

I saved this list of leg work outs exercises - how many would I need to do in order to replace a BB back squat of 5x5? I'm not totally sure if lunges and say...bulgarian split squats are working the exact same muscles groups?

EXERCISES:
Glute/ham raises
Bulgarian Split Squats
Romanian deadlifts
Reverse hyperextensions
Lunges
Step Ups
Running stairs, uphill sprints
Single leg deadlifts

[freebirdmac]

First, is there a plate loaded, lever squat machine in your gym? Smith Machine?
Outside of those I'd use leg press for 5x5 with feet midway up and a tad wider than your shoulders. I'd also do more than 1x5 on deads. A good 3x10 and going up in weight regularly would be better. All of those other exercises are great and can be used to fill in your routine and give you options when switching things up.

[Glamorous]

First, is there a plate loaded, lever squat machine in your gym? Smith Machine?
Outside of those I'd use leg press for 5x5 with feet midway up and a tad wider than your shoulders. I'd also do more than 1x5 on deads. A good 3x10 and going up in weight regularly would be better. All of those other exercises are great and can be used to fill in your routine and give you options when switching things up.

Yes, I have seen the plate loaded squat machine (has pads that go on your shoulders) and a curved "ramp" that your feet go on. There is 1 smith machine, but I've never liked how that felt. I haven't tried it in almost 9 months, but it made me feel really awkward.

If I do the squat machine would I NOT do the leg press on the same day? Is it an either or type exercise?

I am obsessed with deads - I have no problem doing more of them! I finally worked up to 1x5 175lbs and barely got 1x3 180lbs. I did 5x5 one time to see where I stood and I did 5x5 135lbs no problem.

I assume I still want to do the compound exercises FIRST (squat machine, leg press, deads) and then the step ups or lunges after, correct?

[Bumbler]

That sucks! We have a few peeps at the gym that have this problem, too, and I know it is frustrating to overcome. Some were helped by switching to a pair of weightlifting shoes with a bit of a heel. They can sometimes help you keep your chest more upright in the squat and make it a bit easier to hit proper depth. I have a pair of Do-wins (I also do a lot of oly lifting) and I heart them. You could also alter your stance and go a bit wider as that can help in the short term with making it easier to get that depth. If neither of those work and you sub in other exercises, to help work on developing that flexibility, there is always practicing air squats facing a wall. It's not a lot of fun but it helps to really focus on getting that depth without tipping your chest too far forward. As for other exercises, I'll leave that to others to suggest ideas.

[freebirdmac]

Yes, I have seen the plate loaded squat machine (has pads that go on your shoulders) and a curved "ramp" that your feet go on. There is 1 smith machine, but I've never liked how that felt. I haven't tried it in almost 9 months, but it made me feel really awkward.

If I do the squat machine would I NOT do the leg press on the same day? Is it an either or type exercise?

I am obsessed with deads - I have no problem doing more of them! I finally worked up to 1x5 175lbs and barely got 1x3 180lbs. I did 5x5 one time to see where I stood and I did 5x5 135lbs no problem.

I assume I still want to do the compound exercises FIRST (squat machine, leg press, deads) and then the step ups or lunges after, correct?

Try the squat machine. Start light and find a comfortable foot position. You most definitely can do squats and leg press on the same day. You can also vary which one you do first. This is all about getting your legs to grow. After squatting first for awhile, switch it and press first. It all works. I just wouldn't do 5x5 on both. Actually I wouldn't do 5x5 on the squat machine. Once you get to a certain weight those pads don't do much and the weight can be more than the upper back really likes.

Yes, leave lunges etc for after presses and squats. Some insane people superset lunges with leg extensions

Be selective so you don't do too many exercises in on session. 3-4 quad dominate is plenty.

[gobbles23]

I have a similar problem in that I can't do squats, but its because I weightlift at home and I don't have a squat rack :O ! I try to do one-legged squats with a barbell on my back, but it turns out to be more of a backwards lunge...I feel like I'm missing out! Is there any way to make up for the lack of squatting? Any kind of exercise I could do that would make up for it???

[freebirdmac]

I have a similar problem in that I can't do squats, but its because I weightlift at home and I don't have a squat rack :O ! I try to do one-legged squats with a barbell on my back, but it turns out to be more of a backwards lunge...I feel like I'm missing out! Is there any way to make up for the lack of squatting? Any kind of exercise I could do that would make up for it???

Try front squats

[KyleAaron]

You mention that as you descend into the squat, you feel you're going to fall over, and you attribute this to poor hip and ankle flexibility.

However, you also mention that you happily do deadlifts - which also require hip and ankle flexibility.

So I think it's likely that it's not flexibility that's the issue, but core strength. When you stand up, your abs and lower back must work to keep you standing. When you put a weight on your back, they have to work harder still. If they're a bit weak, then other muscles will step in to help.

In the case of a squat, as you descend, if your lower back and/or abs are weak, your glutes and hams will come in to try to hold you upright. However, glutes and hams are also needed to do the squat. So as you descend and your glutes and hams are working to keep you upright, they can't push the weight - and you feel like you're going to fall over.

So you probably need to develop your abs and lower back.

I suggest that every day you do bodyweight squats. You will spend 3 weeks developing some strength and more flexibility, and then 3 weeks developing strength.

You'll begin with what some call goblin squats, aimed at building your flexibility and helping you find the proper position for the bottom of the squat. Put your feet just outside hip width and squat down with your arms forward for balance. Then bring your arms towards your body, put your elbows on your knees and your hands together. Stick your butt out, tilting your hips forward like you're peeing and don't want to splash yourself.

This is the squat position at the bottom. Sit there for a bit - say, ten breaths - feeling the stretch, becoming aware of how the position feels. Now stand up. And squat back down again into the same position. Do 10 goblin squats. Do it every day. In the next week, do it 15 times. Then 20. Once you can do 20 goblin squats, you can do 20 proper bodyweight squats. You simply squat down with your arms forward, but your hips, butt and legs in the same position as the goblin squat, then get straight up.

Do 20 bodyweight squats every day for the first week, 30 in the second, and 40 in the third. When you can do 40 bodyweight squats with good form you should be more than ready to put a bar on your back and do 5 reps with it.

In addition, in the gym I would add some situps and back hyperextensions. Don't worry about sets, just get a total of 30 of each throughout your workout. When you can do 30 in a row without stopping, grab a 5kg plate and hold it to your chest while doing those exercises, but do no more than 10 reps in one go - though still aiming for that total of 30 through the workout. After 3 weeks, grab a 10kg plate and do the same again. These exercises should effectively build your ab and lower back strength.

In the meantime, your substitute exercises for squats are fine.

[juliacheh]

I have a similar problem in that I can't do squats, but its because I weightlift at home and I don't have a squat rack :O ! I try to do one-legged squats with a barbell on my back, but it turns out to be more of a backwards lunge...I feel like I'm missing out! Is there any way to make up for the lack of squatting? Any kind of exercise I could do that would make up for it???

I don't have a squat rack either. I am doing front squats, overhead squats (love them, great exercise BTW) and Bulgarian split squats.

[gobbles23]

Try front squats

How do I get the weight up there??? I can squat way more than I can lift Or do you mean with the weight in front of me like a deadlift?

[freebirdmac]

How do I get the weight up there??? I can squat way more than I can lift Or do you mean with the weight in front of me like a deadlift?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...rontSquat.html

You may be able to figure out how to get the weight up on front squats easier than back squats.

[Glamorous]

That sucks! We have a few peeps at the gym that have this problem, too, and I know it is frustrating to overcome. Some were helped by switching to a pair of weightlifting shoes with a bit of a heel. I have a pair of Do-wins (I also do a lot of oly lifting) and I heart them. You could also alter your stance and go a bit wider as that can help in the short term with making it easier to get that depth. If neither of those work and you sub in other exercises, to help work on developing that flexibility, there is always practicing air squats facing a wall.

I have weight lifting shoes - Do Wins as well. I love them, and pretty much won't do compound exercises without them. They have helped me greatly.

You mention that as you descend into the squat, you feel you're going to fall over, and you attribute this to poor hip and ankle flexibility.

However, you also mention that you happily do deadlifts - which also require hip and ankle flexibility.

So I think it's likely that it's not flexibility that's the issue, but core strength. When you stand up, your abs and lower back must work to keep you standing. When you put a weight on your back, they have to work harder still. If they're a bit weak, then other muscles will step in to help.

In the case of a squat, as you descend, if your lower back and/or abs are weak, your glutes and hams will come in to try to hold you upright. However, glutes and hams are also needed to do the squat. So as you descend and your glutes and hams are working to keep you upright, they can't push the weight - and you feel like you're going to fall over.

So you probably need to develop your abs and lower back.

I suggest that every day you do bodyweight squats. You will spend 3 weeks developing some strength and more flexibility, and then 3 weeks developing strength.

You'll begin with what some call goblin squats, aimed at building your flexibility and helping you find the proper position for the bottom of the squat. Put your feet just outside hip width and squat down with your arms forward for balance. Then bring your arms towards your body, put your elbows on your knees and your hands together. Stick your butt out, tilting your hips forward like you're peeing and don't want to splash yourself.

This is the squat position at the bottom. Sit there for a bit - say, ten breaths - feeling the stretch, becoming aware of how the position feels. Now stand up. And squat back down again into the same position. Do 10 goblin squats. Do it every day. In the next week, do it 15 times. Then 20. Once you can do 20 goblin squats, you can do 20 proper bodyweight squats. You simply squat down with your arms forward, but your hips, butt and legs in the same position as the goblin squat, then get straight up.

Do 20 bodyweight squats every day for the first week, 30 in the second, and 40 in the third. When you can do 40 bodyweight squats with good form you should be more than ready to put a bar on your back and do 5 reps with it.

In addition, in the gym I would add some situps and back hyperextensions. Don't worry about sets, just get a total of 30 of each throughout your workout. When you can do 30 in a row without stopping, grab a 5kg plate and hold it to your chest while doing those exercises, but do no more than 10 reps in one go - though still aiming for that total of 30 through the workout. After 3 weeks, grab a 10kg plate and do the same again. These exercises should effectively build your ab and lower back strength.

In the meantime, your substitute exercises for squats are fine.

Wow, thank you for putting in the time to write such a long reply! It very well could be related to weak core and lower back. I fractured a vertabrae about 10 years ago (untreated) and then had a car accident in 2007 which re-aggrivated old injuries. Up until the last 9 months I was very sedentary and didn't work out. I never played sports in school either - so my body has been a useless blob for about 24 years. haha.

As far as the "falling over" issue...I can visualize myself doing the proper squat (or even going ass to grass, in my dreams!) but when it comes time to do it, my body just doesn't. I've had a personal trainer and even my husband try to help point out what's going on and both have said I had something weird going on with my hips. I hit that point - and just can't get down- at which point my knees TRY to turn in or even out. My left leg is especially wonky (as I call it). It tries to veer out to the left in a squat and usually results in a sore knee. (After this happened a couple times, I stopped to avoid injury).

Regarding other flexibility...I can stand straight up and basically palm the floor in front of me, no problem. If I try to stretch my legs out (as if to do "the splits") I can barely go down. I am almost 3 feet off the floor!

My trainer mentioned he used to see problems like this in women who wear high heels a lot - which I used to do on a daily basis for about 3-4 years straight. I wore high heels EVERY day, like 7 days a week. He mentioned that your foot gets accustomed to that position and it puts a lot of strain on the ankles/toes and as a result, can impair flexibility. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

[gobbles23]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...rontSquat.html

You may be able to figure out how to get the weight up on front squats easier than back squats.

Thank-you for the reply Hmmm..If I could curl the weight I'd be set!! Honestly, I don't even know how I'd be able to get it off the floor I can put 90 lbs on my back, and squat up and down with one leg, balancing on one foot, 6 or 7 times, but like I said, it sometimes turns into a lunge because I don't know what to do with my other foot! I don't use it, it just kind of touches the floor lightly behind me and looks like a lunge...So I could probably squat 180-200 lbs, but I can only deadlift 135, so I think the barbell might as well be glued to the floor if it was that heavy..lol! Perhaps I should build a squat rack...

[KyleAaron]

Wow, thank you for putting in the time to write such a long reply!

I've always found that it's easier to remember things if I understand the process behind them. And when it comes to physical training this is especially so. I believe everyone as they enter physical training should get some understanding of the anatomy and so on behind it all. You don't have to get a degree in exercise physiology, or know the names of the four muscles in the quadriceps, but you should have a basic idea of what's going on.

It very well could be related to weak core and lower back. I fractured a vertabrae about 10 years ago (untreated) and then had a car accident in 2007 which re-aggrivated old injuries. Up until the last 9 months I was very sedentary and didn't work out. I never played sports in school either - so my body has been a useless blob for about 24 years. haha.

I have a lumbar scoliosis (giving me a back weak on one side, strong on the other), never played sports in school, and have been sedentary for the past few years, so I can relate

As far as the "falling over" issue...I can visualize myself doing the proper squat (or even going ass to grass, in my dreams!) but when it comes time to do it, my body just doesn't.

Again, try it with just your bodyweight, no bar. When I got back into training this year, I didn't even start at the gym. I decided that all that equipment was no use to me unless I could run 5km however slowly without stopping, and do 30+ pushups, situps, inverted rows, and squats, as well as touch my toes, etc. It took about 3 months to reach that stage. So I was very ready when it came time to lift a bar.

I think more people would benefit from this sort of general physical preparation before joining a gym, track club or whatever. It'd also save them money - if you don't have the willpower to do those exercises on your own for a few months, you won't stick with that gym for more than a month or two, and since you would have paid for 12 months... So the general physical preparation is a mental test, too.

I've had a personal trainer and even my husband try to help point out what's going on and both have said I had something weird going on with my hips.

A PT ought to be able to say more than "there's something weird going on," but suggest ways to fix it. I hope he's saying more than that - many people don't listen very well, and it can be a bit "Chinese whispers" when A says to B who says to C who says to D, etc - comes out totally different in the end. If not, then I suggest you shop around.

I hit that point - and just can't get down- at which point my knees TRY to turn in or even out.

Because a compound movement uses many muscles, it's possible to do a lift where some of the muscles can handle it, but others can't. So either the lift is not completed, or form breaks down as the stronger muscles try to take over for the weaker muscles.

In the squat, knees usually turn in because the glutes and hams are weak compared to quads. Do a squat now as you're supposed to, now do it again, but with feet and knees together - you feel immediately that your quads are more involved. So if while squatting your glutes and hams can't handle the weight, they pass the effort onto the quads. But to get the quads working, the knees need to be closer together.

So knees turning in on squats usually means glutes and hams are weak compared to the quads - this is very common, since we exercise our quads by walking around, but sit all day on our bums and don't exercise our glutes and hams.

The cure for this is simply using lower weight and reps. For example, you may find that you perform squats perfectly with 20kg on your back, but once it hits 30kg your knees turn in. Or perhaps you can do 10 reps with 100kg, but once you hit the 11th rep your knees start to turn in.

Just do more sets with less weight until you get your glue/ham strength up - even if, as I said, that just means using only your bodyweight. Deadlifts are also good for glute/ham strength, perhaps you could add some sets to them.

My left leg is especially wonky (as I call it). It tries to veer out to the left in a squat and usually results in a sore knee. (After this happened a couple times, I stopped to avoid injury).

Notice that whatever hand is dominant is also stronger. I am right-handed, so my right arm is slightly stronger and larger than my left. But we also have dominant legs - one will be strong and have more co-ordination. Usually the leg is the same as the arm - if you're right-handed, you'll be right-legged, too. So you are probably right-legged, your left leg is weaker.

Again, this will be helped by bodyweight work.

Regarding other flexibility...I can stand straight up and basically palm the floor in front of me, no problem. If I try to stretch my legs out (as if to do "the splits") I can barely go down. I am almost 3 feet off the floor!

3 feet from the floor is more flexibility than most squatters have So again, I think your issue is probably less flexibility, and more likely glute/ham strength. We'd have to see a vid of you squatting (both just bodyweight and with a bar) to be sure, though.

My trainer mentioned he used to see problems like this in women who wear high heels a lot - which I used to do on a daily basis for about 3-4 years straight. I wore high heels EVERY day, like 7 days a week. He mentioned that your foot gets accustomed to that position and it puts a lot of strain on the ankles/toes and as a result, can impair flexibility.

This is true, too. However, you can just widen your stance. Squat with knees together - notice the heels come up pretty quickly. Now put your feet wide like a sumo wrestler, and squat down - they're much slower to come up, if they come up at all. A wider stance requires less flexibility from the ankles.

Again, those substitute exercises are all excellent exercises. But if you want to squat, then I think you should try some of the things I've suggested. And it's always best if you can choose which exercises to do.

Try to get an understanding of how all the muscles and bones fit together, and listen to your body so you can adjust things to work best for you; there is no one true perfect position for this or that exercise.

[Euqinom]

Hey ladies! What combination of exercises can I do to replace any form of BB squats in my 5x5 lifting routine? I've been on Strong Lifts 5x5 for 9 months and have been seeing gains in strength and losses in fat up until recently.

Try frontsquats or goblet squats, they should make life easier for you. Also, make the movement more hipdominant instead of knee-dominant. (Push your butt all the way back, until you can't go any further while keeping your back as upright as possible. Then, start lowering. Also, widen your stance a little)

My biggest issue is that I have horrible (embarrassing!) hip and ankle flexibility. I will literally fall over if I try to do a proper back squat...or, I can do a half assed one with almost no depth. I have read the tutorials and tried them - but the issue is not that I can't do the form...it's that my legs aren't flexible enough for me to get any depth. I hit a point and then start leaning forward instead of going back and down. My ankles are really tight (up in the front shin area) and then my hips are all weird. I am doing stretches, foam rolling, getting professional massages monthly and was even seeing a chiropractor, but my flexibility is just horrid.

Add in flexibilty drills. Magnificent Mobility is one of the staple books for lower body flexibility

So, until I can greatly increase my flexibility, what alternative leg work out would be effective? My posterior is severely lacking (see progress pics, but don't laugh).

Strong Lifts 5x5 has me doing back squats 5x5 on EVERY work out (3x/week) and then deadlifts 1x5 on alternating workouts - following an ABA, BAB schedule. I have no issue with deadlifts, but obviously not doing proper squats is making this program almost useless.

I'm thinking Bulgarian Squats and Lunges should be possible for you, and especially the Bulgarian Squats will help in your flexibility, but only in addition to flexibility drills.

[Glamorous]

Thank you again for the replies.

It's kind of an ego blow to hear that my legs are so weak :P But, it's all good and I would rather know so I can address it, than not know and continue to fail.

I have heard of that Magnificent Mobility book, but for whatever reason...I can't find it. I googled it and looked on Amazon. Anyone know who wrote it or how to find it?

I'm looking forward to hitting the flexibility drills with full force.

[KyleAaron]

It's kind of an ego blow to hear that my legs are so weak :P

Well if you were born with strong legs you wouldn't have to squat at all...

I'll bet my legs are weaker than yours, nyah nyah!

Each of us has our strengths and weaknesses. Be proud of one, work on the other.

[Euqinom]

I believe it's by Bill Hartman and Mike Robertson. Eric Cressey's site might be of help too.

[Euqinom]

Tadah! Look what I've found: http://ericcressey.com/product
Scroll down until the fifth or sixth product.