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  1. #481
    Registered User creepa200's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fr4me View Post
    If you felt like you might do more bicep work, add couple of dropsets for the curls, 1 dropset for barbell curls and another one for hammer curls, your bicep gona blow up ;D
    Ya I think cause I'm just doing this after 2 rounds of Kris Gethins 12 week program I'm use to high reps and 3-4 exercises per body part. Like just last week I did 300 reps bicep/ 300 rep tricep DTP. Biceps were sore for days.

    Today I feel nothing in biceps. Back feels nice though with that mild doms.

    3 sets for biceps is what I usually do for just one exercise and I'd do 3 sets on 3-4 exercises. With this program 3 sets is the total between 2 exercises.

    I'll probably do some drop sets and also try to increase the weight for curls next week. Maybe now that I'm doing less volume I can go higher in the weight.

    Thanks!
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  2. #482
    Registered User iIrishSid's Avatar
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    I've been trying to lift heavy but I think my form is being comprimised. Would it be better to use less weight but better form? Will I see better gains?

    Also, I don't think I can do barbell curls. I feel a pain like something is tearing in my forearm and is extremely uncomfortable, but I've also read Ez curls aren't as good. Any tips for the barbell?
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  3. #483
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    Originally Posted by iIrishSid View Post
    I've been trying to lift heavy but I think my form is being comprimised. Would it be better to use less weight but better form? Will I see better gains?

    Also, I don't think I can do barbell curls. I feel a pain like something is tearing in my forearm and is extremely uncomfortable, but I've also read Ez curls aren't as good. Any tips for the barbell?
    Just do regular DB curls then. Stand with your arms by your side with your palms facing away from you. The barbell might be to restricted for you. Least with dumbells you can deviate a little and at the top if needed turn them a little.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ell-bicep-curl

    Gives you more a free range of mation rather than wrists/forearms being stuck in a single spot to move the weight.

    When I do them I generally keep my wrists as straight as I would with a barbell. I work with all 3 (BB, DB, ez bar) though and just do what I feel on any giving day.
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  4. #484
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    How would you go about switching from SS to this routine (the 3-day split)?
    Decrease weights on deadlift, bench and squats, to make you less tired afterwards to do all the new exercises?

    EDIT: Is this the right way to understand your rep ranges - or should seated OHP be 3-5 reps also?
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  5. #485
    Registered User cjc651's Avatar
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    Why is the volume so low? It seems with 4 rest days per week that you could do a few more sets especially on the compounds.
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  6. #486
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    Originally Posted by cjc651 View Post
    Why is the volume so low? It seems with 4 rest days per week that you could do a few more sets especially on the compounds.
    I'd say because it's aimed at beginners.
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  7. #487
    Keepin' It Kingdom (KIK) jcpryor3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TomMutaffis View Post
    No problem on the split. Here is another article that I wrote, a bit more of an advanced program and it works very well for those looking for a 'hybrid' strength/hypertrophy/conditioning solution.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Utilizing Gym Complexes for Power & Conditioning

    by Tom Mutaffis

    It is a common dilemma for most people who weight train; they want to build strength, but at the same time want to be fit and athletic. Unfortunately, many of the currently popular training protocols neglect overall balance in favor of a singular objective such as strength, hypertrophy, or aerobic capacity.

    The program described herein can provide outstanding strength gains while also maintaining, or improving your level of GPP (general physical preparedness ? i.e. conditioning).

    The total time under tension and volume will also enhance muscular hypertrophy. Enhanced hypertrophy along with the total workload prescribed will increase caloric expenditure which can improve body composition. In a nutshell, this program addresses all of the points most trainees are concerned with and does so in a very efficient fashion.

    The Basic Principals:

    - Complete a thorough warm-up prior to beginning your first complex.

    - Complexes are defined as multiple exercises performed consecutively (?linked?) with no rest between them (you move as quickly as possible from one exercise to the next).

    - The entire volume of the training sessions will be 5-10 sets.

    - Adjust your rest between complexes based on goals:

    Longer rest (3-5 minutes) for strength
    Medium rest (2-3 minutes) for conventional athletes
    Shorter rest (1-1.5 minutes) for bodybuilding / body composition
    - The training split is broken down into 2-3 muscle groups per day.

    - Advanced trainees can do between 3-5 linked movements per complex; beginner and intermediate trainees should do 2-3 linked movements per complex.

    - As a general rule, start with compound exercises and follow with isolation movements.

    - The total workout should be completed in 1 hour or less.


    The Training Split:

    Monday: Upper Body
    Tuesday: Lower Body
    Wednesday: Upper Body Accessory
    Thursday: Rest
    Friday: Upper Body
    Saturday & Sunday: Rest / Active Lifestyle
    Example Exercise Selections:

    Beginner / Intermediate

    Lower Body: Front Squat / Back Squat
    Lower Body: Stiff Leg Deadlift / Conventional Deadlift
    Upper Body: Incline Dumbell Press / Decline Dumbell Flyes
    Upper Body: Wide Grip Chins / Close Grip Pulldown / One-Arm DB Rows
    Upper Body Accessory: Barbell Curls / Preacher Machine Curls / Hammer Curls
    Upper Body Accessory: Weighted Dips / Rope Pushdown
    Intermediate / Advanced:

    Lower Body: Deficit Deadlift / Standard Deadlift / Rack Pull
    Lower Body: Olympic Squat / Box Squat / Hack Squat
    Lower Body: Power Clean / Front Squat
    Upper Body: Incline Dumbell Press / Pendlay Rows / Push Press / Chins
    Upper Body: Incline Barbell Press / High Pulls (Wide Grip Upright Rows)
    Upper Body: Flat Bench Dumbell Press / Barbell Rows / Pec Deck / Pulldowns
    Upper Body Accessory: Close Grip Bench Press / Overhead Dumbell Extension / Pushdown
    Upper Body Accessory: Alternating Dumbell Curls / Preacher Curls / Concentration Curls
    Upper Body Accessory: Skull Crushers / EZ Bar Curls / Seated DB Curls / Close Grip Pushups
    Advanced lifters will be working opposing muscle groups with longer sets. The resultant time under tension can exceed 5 minutes thus requiring most individuals ?work up? to the requisite level of training intensity.

    One of the really fun things about this type of training is that you can do different workouts each week. There is a lot of variation and opportunity to set new personal records (PRs).

    You can adjust the program to address lagging body parts, or to focus on building strength in a specific movement. This can be done by training the movement or body part earlier in the week, increasing volume, or prioritizing them to be the initial movement in each complex. The program can be adapted to many training styles including periodization and Westside.

    Application:

    Trainee X is a high school football player looking to increase his bench press, squat, and to add body weight while also improving conditioning. Below are examples of upper and lower body complex workouts he might follow:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    Upper Body Day:

    Complex 1 - Flat Bench Press (90% x 3 reps) / Chins or Pulldowns (BW x 10) / Incline

    Complex 2 - Weighted Dips (Sets of 5) / Seated Low Pulley Row (Sets of 8-10) / Chest Press Machine (Sets of 10-15) ? Complete this complex for 2 sets with 3-5 minutes of rest.

    ** Accessory Work - Decline Bench or Board Press for 1-2 sets of 10, Hammer Strength Back Machine for 2 sets of 8-10 reps. Minimal Rest.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    Lower Body Day:

    Complex 1 - Back Squat (85% x 5) / Trap Bar Deadlift (Sets of 5) / Dumbell Stiff Leg Deadlift (Sets of 10) ? Complete 3 rounds of this complex.

    Complex 2 - Box Squat (Sets of 3) / Leg Extension (sets of 12) / Leg Curl (sets of 8-10)

    ** Accessory Work - Football Squat or Hack Squat (2 sets of 10), Leg Press (2 sets of 15-20)

    These workouts should be completed in less than an hour. You are able to work with heavy weights but still have enough volume to increase hypertrophy and conditioning.

    ** Accessory work is optional. This program is flexible and you can always drop a complex in favor of accessory work if needed.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    Resources:

    Here is a video that demonstrates how to perform this type of training:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCpc5Uq5is

    For additional information on applying these methods to your specific training program or with any questions please see the discussion thread on WannaBeBig.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    **I will post some additional example routines below this post, they are from the discussion thread for this article.
    These complexes look awesome! I'm gonna be starting an advanced complex tomorrow. Really looking forward to it.

    I have a few questions for you Tom. First off, I'm assuming each day should consist of two complexes? I just want to make sure I have the right idea.

    The next question I have concerns the different complexes I can choose from. For example, my Monday workout would consist of an upper body complex. Do I just choose one of the upper body complexes that you have listed and use that? Do I choose one or two? Also, I believe you mentioned something about switching up the rotation of the lifts. For example, chins before DB press etc. That would be okay should I desire to change it right?

    Also, how do you decide what to do for accessory work after you've completed your complexes?

    Last but not least, I wanted to know if it would be alright to switch up the training days a bit? I wanna move my rest day to Wednesday and train on MTTF. Would this be okay?

    The plan is to do about 90% of my MAX on the compound lifts for about 3-5reps and about 8-10 for isolation movements. Does that sound about right. I'm looking to train for strength, hypertrophy and conditioning. I don't plan on gaining to much strength though since I'm currently on a cut. Any feedback on the plans that I have? Suggestions or changes I should make?

    Thank you for your time and effort, Tom. I know it took a lot to put all of this information together. I really appreciate it! Looking forward to hearing back from you.

    Edit: Forgot to ask about adding in some ab work. Any suggestions on adding in ab work and what exercises I should do? Thank you Tom!
    Last edited by jcpryor3; 05-20-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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  8. #488
    Keepin' It Kingdom (KIK) jcpryor3's Avatar
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    Today was my first day of advanced complexes. Not sure if I did this right. Went ahead and did it anyway. Here's the breakdown of today's workout.

    Advanced Complex
    Incline DB Press: Set 1 - 80lb x 3, Set 2 - 80lb x 4
    Pendlay Rows: Set 1 - 135lb x 10, Set 2 - 135lb x 8
    Push Press: Set 1 - 100lb x 6, Set 2 - 80lb x 8
    Chins: Set 1 - BW x 3, Set 2 - BW x 4

    Accessory Work
    Decline BB Press: Set 1 - 135lb x 10, Set 2 - 135lb x 10

    Hoping to get a response soon so I know that I'm doing it right, and also to get some of my other questions answered.

    Got a pretty good sweat. Took about a 2min break between each complex (completed above complex 2x). Felt like crap after workout. Once I made it home I ended up throwing up....felt much better afterwards though. Looking forward to more of these.
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  9. #489
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    Bump
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  10. #490
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    Started doing this today. Jumped onto Wednesday without reading people telling how hard it was. Was at my gym and started doing these. I changed the order the exercises was done in, but when I was on my last exercises it was burning. Gonna test this in the future.

    Gonna do a 10RM test on those different exercises and calc my way to a nice weightplan.
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  11. #491
    Registered User HY314's Avatar
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    What's the weight progression like? Increase weight every week?
    My Reviews and Logs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=152226283
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  12. #492
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    Originally Posted by TomMutaffis View Post
    I have seen a number of posts lately regarding 3-day training splits and wanted to share a program that I put together which has worked well for me.

    Monday: Pulling (Back/Biceps/Deadlift)
    - Deadlifts (3 sets)
    - Chins (3 sets)
    - One-Arm Dumbbell Rows (2 sets)
    - Close Grip Pulldowns (2 sets)
    - Barbell Curls (2 sets)
    - Hammer Curls (1 set)

    Wednesday: Pushing (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)
    - Flat Dumbbell Bench Press (3 Sets)
    - Incline Barbell Bench Press (2 sets)
    - Dips (2 sets)
    - Seated Dumbbell Military Press (3 sets)
    - Overhead Dumbbell Extension (2 sets)
    - Side Laterals (2 sets)
    - Pushdowns (2 sets)
    - Cable Crossover / Pec Deck (1 set)

    Friday: Lower Body (Legs)
    - Squats (4 sets)
    - Strait Leg Deadlifts (2 sets)
    - Walking Lunges (2 sets)
    - Leg Curl / Feet High Leg Press Superset (2 sets)
    - Calf Raises (3 sets)

    For initial compound movement in each workout I generally work in the 3-5 rep range. For the next compound movement I typically go with 5-8 reps, and then I finish the rest of the workout (accessory/isolation movements) in the 8-12 rep range.

    On some of the smaller muscle groups (deltoids, biceps, triceps) I will generally perform drop sets.
    I just started this and did the push routine. Damn it hit me more than I thought it would. I ended up taking out overhead extensions (hurts elbow) and took off 1 set of DB shoulder press (triceps were failing too early, need to do shoulders before tris next). I also did flat BB bench and incline DB bench instead of the listed.

    Good template that you can use and mix & match slightly to your liking. Really liked it.
    Gym PR's

    Squat - 325lbs

    Bench - 225lbs paused

    Deadlift - 405lbs x 3
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  13. #493
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    I think I've been doing the original 3 day split for 5 months now. Really like it but I wonder if I should change it up at this point. My weights have increased in my compound exercises but have virtually stayed the same in my isolations. I do some substituting on push day(I superset 2 sets lying tri ext/close grip press instead of Overhead Dumbbell Extension) and now I do 2 sets of incline cable crosses at the end instead of 1 cable crossover. Also I work in abs twice each week.
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  14. #494
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    I'm going to try this as a beginner lifting for about 2 months

    Anything I should to know about this program as a beginner?
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  15. #495
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    Been lifting for a year now and going to try this
    Heat/Lightning/Raiders/Clev Indians/CFB

    Yeah ****ing water
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  16. #496
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    Going to be giving the 3 day split a whirl starting Monday, but I have a quick question regarding the chins.

    To me, chins are with an underhand grip, and pullups are with an overhand grip, but I know some people who don't make a distinction and just call both movements chins or both movements pullups. So I was just wondering if someone could give some clarification as to which Tom is recommending for the routine.

    Thanks in advance!
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  17. #497
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    Should this workout be performed as a cycle? For example, 1 set of Deadlifts, then 1 set Chins, and so on. Then repeat the process.
    or
    Should it be done in a Strength Training kind of way? 3 sets Deadlifts, then 3 sets Chin ups, and so on...?
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  18. #498
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    As i know, a beginner should hit each bodypart 2-3 times per week, on this program i work every muscle 1x a week only.. is this program good for a beginner? NOt a total beginner, just someone who's been working out for a while and not knowing what he's doing..
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  19. #499
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    I just finished Back n Biceps. Holy hell. Never felt anything like this pain before, if you want to have an amazingly good workout, i suggest this program !
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    This is a nice program. Been following the 4 day plan for a few months now while cutting. I tweak things here and there, for instance I replaced the dumbbell rows at the end of the back workout with a shrug/rear delt raise superset. I also enjoy pullovers so I throw some sets of those in now and then.
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    the workout plan you are following seems well organized and I'm also looking for something similar to me as well .. going through your post here I've also got a better clue about how to fall in a good start at very early to reach at the best results after a while... thanks
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    I'm quite a noob to lifting (only started last year), but isn't it better to train the small muscle groups (e.g. biceps, triceps, shoulders etc) more than just once per week? What is the advantage of this 3-day/4-day split over say combining arms and shoulders into one session, and doing that twice per week instead of just once. thanks
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  23. #503
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    Originally Posted by jonlr81 View Post
    Going to be giving the 3 day split a whirl starting Monday, but I have a quick question regarding the chins.

    To me, chins are with an underhand grip, and pullups are with an overhand grip, but I know some people who don't make a distinction and just call both movements chins or both movements pullups. So I was just wondering if someone could give some clarification as to which Tom is recommending for the routine.

    Thanks in advance!
    I do the program with pullups

    Originally Posted by SeaOfGold View Post
    Should this workout be performed as a cycle? For example, 1 set of Deadlifts, then 1 set Chins, and so on. Then repeat the process.
    or
    Should it be done in a Strength Training kind of way? 3 sets Deadlifts, then 3 sets Chin ups, and so on...?
    I've been doing the workout in a strength training kind of way and it seems to be good that way

    Originally Posted by Georgesss View Post
    As i know, a beginner should hit each bodypart 2-3 times per week, on this program i work every muscle 1x a week only.. is this program good for a beginner? NOt a total beginner, just someone who's been working out for a while and not knowing what he's doing..
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  24. #504
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    hello tom,
    please tell me if the changes I made for the program fits a beginner:


    Workout A: Pulling (Back/Biceps/Deadlift)

    Deadlifts 2 x 8-10

    Chin ups 3 x 8-10

    One-Arm Dumbbell Rows 2 x 8-10

    Close Grip Pulldowns 2 x 8-10

    Barbell Curls 2 x 8-10


    Workout B: Pushing (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)

    Flat Dumbbell Bench Press 2 x 8-10

    Incline Barbell Bench Press 2 x 8-10

    Dips 2 x 8-10

    Seated Dumbbell Military Press 3 x 8-10

    Side Laterals 1 x 8-10

    Pushdowns 2 x 8-10

    Cable Crossover / Pec Deck 1 x 8-10



    Workout C: Lower Body (Legs)

    Squats 3 x 8-10

    Straight Leg Deadlifts 2 x 8-10

    Walking Lunges 2 x 8-10

    Leg Curl/Feet High Leg Press Superset 2 x 8-10

    Calf Raises 3 x 8-10

    Maybe the leg day is a littal bit too intense for beginners and it should be adjusted further?
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    Hey Tom!
    I reallyy like your program, the 3 day training split would work out very well for me. I am really trying to pack on a few lbs of muscle and i'd like to start your program this Monday! but I have a few issues that I am really not sure what to do about or what changes to make, so I am hoping you can help..
    First of all, I have no access to an incline bench right now. All I have is a flat bench. So I was wondering if I could do a few sets of flat bb benches and then db presses? I could throw a few plates under one end of the bench for the db presses to have a slight incline. What would you recommend I do, knowing I don't have an incline bench?
    && second, I also do not have access to a pulldown bar (I reallyy wish I did!! It has been an issue for awhile now) or a chin up bar.. The only things I really have for back work is dead lifts, vert row machine, dumbbells, hyper extension machine, and that's really about it. Like I said, no pulldown bar or chin up, no incline bench.. and as of recent, I have to squat using a smith machine (sucks! which I also can't set up for an incline bench.. !!)

    So, with all that said, I am really in a bind! but I have to make do with I got in my gym for now. What should I do? What changes should be made to this program for the most optimal results possible, given my circumstances??

    Thank you veryy much for taking the time to help me, I greatlyy appreciate any and all feedback! Thank you again in advance!
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  26. #506
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    I've been following this routine for a few weeks and love it. I was just wondering should I be switching the routine up? I've heard its not as beneficial to repeat the same routine for too long.
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    Originally Posted by doeb1 View Post
    I've been following this routine for a few weeks and love it. I was just wondering should I be switching the routine up? I've heard its not as beneficial to repeat the same routine for too long.
    I would not change if it is still working for ya, or you are just board with the routine.
    The best part of this is, my kids are learning to live healthier because of me.
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  28. #508
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    Hi! I've never done a push pull leg workout, is this a good routine to start?
    My workouts are on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I am 1.75cm and 63 kg, my goal is to the gain mass.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by BryanCranston; 07-01-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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  29. #509
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    Originally Posted by 69cam View Post
    I would not change if it is still working for ya, or you are just board with the routine.
    I'm not board just heard after a few weeks your muscles memorize what you do and it wouldn't be as beneficial.
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    Thank you for taking the time to lay all this out. I'm looking to switch things up and ran across this thread and would like to run one of these first two for a few weeks to see how things go. Quick question, starting with the heavy sets of low reps what do you recommend for warmup prior to beginning?

    Also, on the 4-5 day split you note that you often only DL every other week. When you are on an "off week" do you sub another exercise or just skip it and do the others as normal?

    Thanks

    Originally Posted by TomMutaffis View Post
    Here is the 4/5 day training split...


    Training Template:

    Monday: Back
    Tuesday: Chest
    Wednesday: Cardio / Abs / Stretching
    Thursday: Legs
    Friday: Arms / Shoulders


    Specific Workouts:

    Back:
    - Deadlift: (2) sets of 2-5 reps
    - Chins / Assisted Chins: (3-5) sets / goal of 25 total chins, 50 for advanced.
    - T-Bar Rows: (2) sets of 5-8 reps
    - Close Grip V-Bar Pulldown / (Superset) / Seated V-Bar Row: (2) sets of 8-10 reps each.
    - One Arm DB Rows /or/ Underhand Barbell Rows: (2) sets of 10-15

    Chest:
    - Incline Bench Press: (3) sets, 3-8 reps
    - Flat Dumbbell Bench Press: (2) sets of 10
    - Decline Flyes: (1) sets of 12
    - Hammer Strength Incline Press: (2) sets of 8
    - Cable Crossover: (2) sets of 12

    Legs:
    - Squats: (3) sets of 5-8 reps
    - Standing Lunges: (3) sets of 8-10 reps
    - Stiff Leg Deadlift: (3) sets of 8-10 reps
    - Superset: Option 1: Leg Extension / Leg Curl: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each
    Option 2: Hack Squat / Leg Press: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each

    Arms & Shoulders:
    - Seated DB Military Press: (3) sets of 5-10 reps
    - Dips / Weighted Dips: (2) sets of 8-10 reps
    - Barbell Curls: (2) sets of 8-10 reps
    - Overhead DB or Barbell Extension: (2) sets of 8-10 reps
    - Lateral Raise / Front Raise Superset: (2) sets
    - Close Grip Bench / Pushdown Superset: (2) sets
    - Preacher Curl / Hammer Curl Superset: (2) sets

    **I typically perform deadlifts every other week.
    Originally Posted by TomMutaffis View Post
    I have seen a number of posts lately regarding 3-day training splits and wanted to share a program that I put together which has worked well for me.

    Monday: Pulling (Back/Biceps/Deadlift)
    - Deadlifts (3 sets)
    - Chins (3 sets)
    - One-Arm Dumbbell Rows (2 sets)
    - Close Grip Pulldowns (2 sets)
    - Barbell Curls (2 sets)
    - Hammer Curls (1 set)

    Wednesday: Pushing (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)
    - Flat Dumbbell Bench Press (3 Sets)
    - Incline Barbell Bench Press (2 sets)
    - Dips (2 sets)
    - Seated Dumbbell Military Press (3 sets)
    - Overhead Dumbbell Extension (2 sets)
    - Side Laterals (2 sets)
    - Pushdowns (2 sets)
    - Cable Crossover / Pec Deck (1 set)

    Friday: Lower Body (Legs)
    - Squats (4 sets)
    - Strait Leg Deadlifts (2 sets)
    - Walking Lunges (2 sets)
    - Leg Curl / Feet High Leg Press Superset (2 sets)
    - Calf Raises (3 sets)

    For initial compound movement in each workout I generally work in the 3-5 rep range. For the next compound movement I typically go with 5-8 reps, and then I finish the rest of the workout (accessory/isolation movements) in the 8-12 rep range.

    On some of the smaller muscle groups (deltoids, biceps, triceps) I will generally perform drop sets.
    Last edited by HairyScandinavian; 07-08-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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