Bodybuilding.com Forums
Go Back   Bodybuilding.com Forums > More General Categories > Misc. > Religion / Politics

Save Up To 50% Off Retail Store Supplement Prices In The Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2009, 09:58 PM   #1
catmando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: texas
Age: 66
Stats: 5'10", 240 lbs
Posts: 7,139
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 16733
Rep Power: 0
catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)catmando is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
Visit catmando's BodySpace
Afghanistan war vets patrol halls of Congress to stop troop escalation

Tough guys with a tough message; NO MORE TROOPS!


Published on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 by The Huffington Post
Afghan War Vets Patrol Halls of Congress to Stop Troop Escalation

by Ryan Grim

A little more than two months ago, Brock McIntosh was fighting in Afghanistan, a member of the Army National Guard. This week, he's walking the halls of Congress, trying to end a war that began when he was 13 years old.

McIntosh, now 21, and four other vets are in Washington for something of a preemptive strike. A new pro-war group calling itself Vets For Freedom plans to begin lobbying Congress Thursday, pushing for an escalation. The anti-war vets hope to head them off.

But if their erstwhile comrades and now political opponents are "for freedom," that raises an unusual question. "What does that make us?" mocks Devon Read, 29, served for eight years and took part in the invasion of Iraq before leaving the Marine Corps in 2008. "Vets Against Freedom? Vets For Terrorism?"

Technically, they're with Veterans For Rethinking Afghanistan, having linked up with Brave New Films president Robert Greenwald, whose documentary project "Rethink Afghanistan" urges a drawdown of the American presence in that country.

As the vets wait outside the office of Rep. Ra?l Grijalva, a Democrat who co-chairs the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Jake Diliberto, 27, recounts tales from the first skirmish with Vets For Freedom earlier in the morning.

Diliberto went mano a mano on CNN with VFF rep Thomas Cotton. Cotton had a simple appeal to authority: He's for whatever General Stanley McChrystal wants -- and that's more troops.

Before they went on, says Diliberto, he could hear his opponent prepping himself. "He kept repeating, 'General Stanley McChrystal. General Stanley McChrystal. General Stanley McChrystal.' "

Backers of escalating the eight-year-old war present a variety of complex arguments, but at their heart is Cotton's mantra: "General Stanley McChrystal. General Stanley McChrystal. General Stanley McChrystal."

The troops were joined in Grijalva's office by Malalai Joya, an Afghan member of parliament who has been suspended for speaking out against the warlords who run the country. She is appealing her suspension and, in the meantime, promoting her new book, "A Woman Among Warlords." Joya, too, has a simple message: Go home, USA.

"It's much easier to fight against one enemy than two," Malalai Joya tells Grijalva, identifying the two current enemies as the Taliban on the one hand and the United States and the Afghan government it props up on the other.

The Afghan government, she says, is hopelessly corrupt; President Hamid Karzai is in league with powerful warlords and druglords, some of whom are his close relatives. His top opponent, Abdullah Abdullah, is himself a well-known warlord, she says. The election process is controlled by warlords for their benefit. The farce that was the previous election will not lead to a run-off because Abdullah doesn't believe it will be fair.

"It's not important who's voting. It's important who's counting," says Joya, adding that the canceled election matters little since both candidates are representatives of the warlord class. "They both call the Taliban brother."

Both President Obama and General McChrystal have said that the U.S. effort in Afghanistan cannot succeed without a governing partner that is seen as legitimate by the Afghan people. That's a tremendous problem for proponents of a troop escalation, since Karzai is seen as anything but that.

The problem for the war's opponents, however, is that it's hard to comprehend just how corrupt the Karzai regime is. Seeing it first hand persuaded the troops.

"The Taliban isn't their enemy," says Rick Reyes, who served with the Marine Infantry in Afghanistan. "The greatest enemy of the Afghan people is the Afghan government and the occupation forces."

McIntosh, who takes some time to get over his nerves in the congressman's office, tells Grijalva that the Afghan people appreciate the occupation army most for the medical services it provides. Afghan doctors, he says, were poorly trained, because the Taliban banned pictures in text books. The health care makes them dependent, he says, when what they need is training.

"They can do it on their own," he says. "They're fully capable human beings."

Grijalva nods, acknowledging the wisdom from the young man who just recently got the legal right to drink.

The kind of training Afghans don't need, the Marines say, is military. We've been training young men to fight in Afghanistan for decades, they note, and look where it's gotten us. An overwhelming number of men trained by the U.S. go on to fight for the Taliban instead, which was itself originally trained by the U.S., notes Reyes. "So if we train 400,000 soldiers and 200,000 go fight for the Taliban, what have we gained?"

"We don't expect anything good from you," Joya tells Grijalva. "Just stop doing wrong." As she brandishes photos of dead civilians, known warlords, and evidence of Karzai's corruption, her voice gradually rises. With a finger pointed squarely at the progressive congressman, she repeatedly indicts the occupation and those who allow it to continue.

"This is what your government has done," she fumes. "Silence of good people is worse than action of bad people."

Witnessing her rough treatment of Grivala, who agrees with her, it isn't hard to see how she has found herself out of favor among the warlords.

After the meeting, Grijalva says that Joya helped alter his perspective. "Sometimes in our urge to fix things, we just pile money on top of a [friendly] government," he says. But Joya had convinced him, he says, that the U.S. is "funding fundamentally the people who are unraveling the country."

Outside in the hall, the vets assess the meeting. "I don't think he needed a whole lot of convincing," offers Diliberto. Next up: Reps. John Tierney (D-Mass.), Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) and Barbara Lee (D-Calif.). "But we're not just meeting with progressives," assures Leighton Woodhouse, a Brave New Films aide escorting the men. Rep. Dana Rohrbacher (R-Calif.), Adam Smith (D-Wash.), David Price (D-N.C.), Tim Johnson (R-Ill.) and Sylvestre Reyes (D-Texas) were also scheduled to receive the veterans.

One member had previously offered a "walk and talk" with the vets, but had since demoted them to a sit down meeting with the chief of staff.

He might not get off that easy. The vets are neither your typical lobbyist nor your standard anti-war protesters. Diliberto suggested they deal with that congressman in a way that would convey the gravity of their message.

"We should just go to his door," he suggests, 'and say, 'Look, mother****er.'"
Copyright ? 2009 HuffingtonPost.com, Inc.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/11/03-5
__________________
Those who have been made to believe absurdities, can be made to commit atrocities. Voltaire

Healthcare reform: the fight against death

Alan Grayson for President in 2012.

"Healthcare reform isn't to make insurance companies happy; it's to make the American people healthy". Richard Trumka, President AFL/CIO

4300 American military died in Iraq in bu$h's war for oil and vengeance.

Prosecute bu$h and cheney for war crimes now!!
catmando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 10:15 PM   #2
Alpha_Papa
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: California, United States
Age: 37
Stats: 5'9", 197 lbs
Posts: 373
BodyBlog Entries: 16
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 0
Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)Alpha_Papa is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
Visit Alpha_Papa's BodySpace
I'd like to see a veterans group lobby for an actual strategy and goal in Afghanistan.
Alpha_Papa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #3
otisthebat
**chew crew**
 
otisthebat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, Texas, United States
Age: 24
Stats: 5'10", 160 lbs
Posts: 3,952
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 2271
otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)otisthebat has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit otisthebat's BodySpace
catmando it's good to see that you finally disagree with something obama is doing. afterall, he lied to you and the rest of america.
__________________
i rep back.

prosecute the obame$$iah and joe biden for their war crimes now!
20,000 new troops have been sent into the middle east to fight the obame$$iah's war for oil, power, and vengence.
otisthebat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2009, 12:43 AM   #4
tts0lid
... blah
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida, United States
Age: 25
Stats: 5'10", 228 lbs
Posts: 2,387
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 1387
Rep Power: 346
tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)tts0lid has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit tts0lid's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by otisthebat View Post
catmando it's good to see that you finally disagree with something obama is doing. afterall, he lied to you and the rest of america.
all throughout obama's campaign he said he was for sending more troops to afghanistan...

iraq on the other hand...

i'm glad these guys/girls are voicing their opinions. what i don't understand is why there is a pro war lobbying group.
tts0lid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2009, 03:08 AM   #5
blumpkin415
Kidnapped Fitty's Son
 
blumpkin415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 5,072
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 34928
blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)blumpkin415 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit blumpkin415's BodySpace
Send a message via Yahoo to blumpkin415
Quote:
Originally Posted by tts0lid View Post
what i don't understand is why there is a pro war lobbying group.
Because sometimes you either A. Need to fight back or B. Someone needs an ass whipping
__________________
★ BMBC ★

★cVc★
OEF Veteran x 2

I poke at ordnance

Owe Reps:
mfl1992
dribbler
blumpkin415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2009, 05:16 AM   #6
nutsy54
Navy-Marine Corps Team
 
nutsy54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Maryland, United States
Age: 40
Stats: 5'11", 207 lbs
Posts: 76,112
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 30213
Rep Power: 29703
nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)nutsy54 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit nutsy54's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by tts0lid View Post
i'm glad these guys/girls are voicing their opinions. what i don't understand is why there is a pro war lobbying group.
Because they believe what they're doing is right, and they can see the difference they're making.

Your position would be like asking why fire fighters support entering a burning building - when it's clearly "better" for them to simply remain in the station.
__________________
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle". - Gen. John "Black Jack" Pershing, U.S. Army
"How do those guys on submarines hold their breath for so long?" - Kelly Bundy
I am NOT a Marine. Just a Sailor who had the awesome opportunity to work with Marines for several years.
nutsy54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Me with VETERAN interview Questions (SERIOUS) (war vets encouraged to read!) StUck686 Misc. 12 11-14-2008 02:31 PM
Afghanistan; War Eyewitness Sol_krym Religion / Politics 6 09-14-2007 12:48 PM
Americans!!!! What Are You Doing!!!!!!!!!!! We Need Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!! War Vets!!!!! Staggy73 Misc. 6 08-21-2007 09:58 AM
What are Ron Paul's motives in the Iraq/Afghanistan war, about Iran and Pakistan ? Lucky_ROA Religion / Politics 1 08-08-2007 08:23 AM
The "Iraq/Afghanistan war footage" thread nail3r Religion / Politics 46 03-20-2007 01:54 PM

Member Login

Sign in for more FREE features and tools!

Username or
Email Address:
Password:
Remember Me


New to Bodybuilding.com?
Sign Up Now It's FREE!




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:17 PM. Archive